TrueMods - TrueRangeAI Beta v0.9

[DBO_ 0]

Ah so my fear is conformed by suma, thanks for that opforum i hope they can some how write a workaround with this mod to stop command center giving player pos away for too long after being spotted.

[mr_centipede 31]

I tried to test your scenarios, but I did not see the same results.

1) AI squad with a line formation stayed in line.

2) AI squad with hold waypoint engages enemy at a distance, then one soldier runs off to flank. I assume this is due to the AI squad leader sending out orders which overrides the waypoint order. My guess would be that after the threat is eliminated, they would return to the hold waypoint, but like I said, that is a guess.

Please post test missions, since different scenarios sometimes give different results.

hello... my bad.. it has nothing to do with your mod, its actually caused by CEX... sorry for the trouble

anyway, great mod... now only if i can make the ai group stay still.. *sigh* (not your mod problem ofcourse, just ARMA AI)

@ofpforum

what suppresion script did you referring to? care to give a link?

[sickboy 13]

i am glad you cleared how the view lod is seen by ai ,it is a nice example , i however was talking about the amount of time "knowsabout will last" when spotted and you try to hide in forrest, the ai will know your x,y,z for too long and its hard to escape.

Thats bull imho.

knowsAbout does not equal pinpoint position, but as it says; how much they know about you.

If you want to know how accurate their position information about you really is, use the nearTargets function on an AI and you will notice that  IF they were actually able to see you move into the forrest, the latest position returned by nearTargets is at the forrest line, and not inside the forrest, unless they were able to see you in some other way.

I have done extensive testing and am on the virge of releasing my NAI-beta (check the AI-Manager thread for more info), which is completely based on the AI perceived information returned by the nearTargets list and I can say that they are not very much cheating apart from the things as you can see that are caused by the view lod seen by the ai etc

The center maybe communicates that info, but they are only able to communicate what their groups have perceived, not some magical knowAll

Actually, when you shoot at an AI silently without them being able to spot you, like from far away, in a bush or whatsoever, the nearTargets list will return your position at the hit AI and not at the bush, also if they have a hard time pinpointing your position they will try to make a best guess which can be as much as little to very much 'off' from your real pos. I hope I can showcase this to you in the upcoming NAI demo

[whisper 0]

Ah so my fear is conformed by suma, thanks for that opforum i hope they can some how write a workaround with this mod to stop command center giving player pos away for too long after being spotted.

KnowsAbout is not equal to "giving player pos away". Re-read what ofpforum said, it's exactly that : a high KnowsAbout does not equal "knowing your position perfectly".

they have a high knowsAbout for a long time, that doesn't mean they'll be "giving player pos away for too long after being spotted."

[NeMeSiS 11]

@ofpforum

what suppresion script did you referring to? care to give a link?

Link

I havent made any effort to make it compitable with that 'multi-init-eventhandler' thing so it probably isnt, if you want to use it with other addons that edit the init eventhandler then you have to do that yourself (And feel free to release it in the above topic, just give credit to second), or just add the scripts trough the mission editor.

Combined with this = Awesomeness, as long as you have patience..

[metsapeikko 0]

I think this is indeed a great addon.

However, this doesen`t work very well with Queens Gambit Campaing... Or then Its just Queens Gambit doesnt work very well with TrueRangeAI.

In the last mission of Rahmadi Conflict campaing, your whole AI squad will be killed in less than 45 seconds due to the fact that there is atleast one squad of enemy SF forces shooting at you from the city at the moment you get out from the chopper.

No, Im not saying that AI "fighting range" is too high, its pretty perfect IMO.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I worked around this by throwing my whole squad into cover behind the nearby farm, then edging out and ACOG'ing the snipers into oblivion. I'd be disappointed if the helicopter didn't come under fire from the town, TTYTT.

[Spectre-63 0]

One item I didn't see in the FAQ that I had a question about: will the target's stance (standing vs. kneeling vs. prone) affect the distance at which the AI will detect the target?

[Cobra8472 0]

Im trying to install this on ArmA 1.08, and it tells me I don't have the addon CAA10. What gives?

[dayglow 2]

enjoying the mod, but I do have some concerns. This really seems to exaggerate the AI's ability to eagle eye a small 1x1 pixel patch of a target and call it out from extreme distance. It seems the AI if it sees even a tiny portion of a target through cover then it is seen clear as day to them. I've noticed this with my AI calling out targets and for the life of me not being able to find them.

A great mission that shows this off is the campaign mission where you protect the engineers as they setup the base. The AI is constantly calling out targets way off in the distance through multiple trees.

Also will the movement state of the AI effect how it sees? In the demo mission with the pack as soon as they clear the hill they are calling out men while they are sprinting that I have to stop and search for with the bino's. They are visible, but no way you could find them just eyeballing them from a run. You need to take time to search with the binos to see.

What I find this mod does is move the 'I see everything' envelope from a around 200m to 1000m.

Not sure if these are limitations of the game engine that can be overcome. I really wish they could code in to the sight that movement is what catches the AI's eye instead of simply, is it visible?

[dmarkwick 261]

Really enjoying this addon, we use it over at Frugalsworld now as part of our requirement

During testing in SP, I did notice that my AI were calling out targets thay really had no business seeing. (We were over a hill down in a bowl, yet targets were being called over the hill.)

[durg78 0]

Really enjoying this addon, we use it over at Frugalsworld now as part of our requirement

During testing in SP, I did notice that my AI were calling out targets thay really had no business seeing. (We were over a hill down in a bowl, yet targets were being called over the hill.)

I assume you're talking about the AI calling out Infantry. They should be able to spot a man at greater distances, but not be able to identify him as being friend/foe or what type of soldier he is untill he is much closer. This may need to be tweaked a bit.

If it's vehicles you're talking about, and those vehicles engines are running, then the AI may be hearing those vehicles. We modified their ability to hear from greater distances as well, and in our testing the AI was able to hear vehicles at similar distances to human players.

Also, I'm glad to hear there's a server running this mod! I'll be sure to pay you guys a visit.

[mr_centipede 31]

i noticed the ai ability to see at night just as the same as in daylight... in pitch dark, AI can see target 500m away... this can be problematic... a night assault wont be as unpleasantly surprising as before.

[durg78 0]

i noticed the ai ability to see at night just as the same as in daylight... in pitch dark, AI can see target 500m away... this can be problematic... a night assault wont be as unpleasantly surprising as before.

We've tested for night missions, and in our testing the AI did not see very well at all in the dark. Are you sure they weren't using NVGs?

[dmarkwick 261]

I assume you're talking about the AI calling out Infantry. They should be able to spot a man at greater distances, but not be able to identify him as being friend/foe or what type of soldier he is untill he is much closer. This may need to be tweaked a bit.

No, I'm talking bout AI calling out targets that they shouldn't be able to even see. Let me try it again & get more of a definite report to you. As I recall it, my AI were calling out targets that they should only have been able to see from the top of the hill, yet they were calling them out from below the hill. But anyway, let me test more rigidly.

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Also, I'm glad to hear there's a server running this mod! I'll be sure to pay you guys a visit.

More than welcome we're still cooking up missions right now. We got more ideas than experience but from what I've seen so far, we got some seriously serious mission makers in the making

[mr_centipede 31]

i noticed the ai ability to see at night just as the same as in daylight... in pitch dark, AI can see target 500m away... this can be problematic... a night assault wont be as unpleasantly surprising as before.

We've tested for night missions, and in our testing the AI did not see very well at all in the dark.  Are you sure they weren't using NVGs?

only the squad leaders have NVGs... maybe its ARMA problem.. the leader sees enemy, call out target, and the rest of the squad magically sees what the leader sees.. hmm i guess its arma problem.. sad. i'll try and test again

[edit]

run a test... vanilla ARMA and True Range... here is what i found...

The test:

on rahmadi, set up 2 squads moving toward each other. at 1230H and 0030H, making sure no one has NVG. i played as a lone observer watching the fighting.

using vanilla ARMA: the shooting starts at about the same location during 1230H and 0030H...

using true range, the shooting also start at about the same location regardless of the time, though in TR the shooting starts earlier than vanilla ARMA (for obvious reason. hehe)

so what am i missing here? is it my settings or ARMA is bugged? in OFP at desert island i remember distinctly that the engagement start a lot closer at night between the two teams than during daylight... weird...

[dmarkwick 261]

I've got a small problem with the (otherwise excellent) TrueRange addon. I made some viewblock items for smoke effects, and during testing I find that TrueRange enabled units see through them at distance. Units without TrueRange cannot see a thing through them.

Strangely, closeup they seem to be as blind as normal units, it's only at a few hundred meters that the problem kicks in.

Any ideas?

[andersson 285]

Can it be a LOD problem?

[dmarkwick 261]

Can it be a LOD problem?

Well it might be I only have one LOD as it's a simple cube and cannot be reduced down in detail by any useful amount. Is it possible that LODs are a requirement?

[andersson 285]

I dont know much about it, but maybe the "View Geometry" LOD is only visible for AI out to a certain distance? As AI, in vanilla, is not able to see beyond a limit there is (was) no reason to have that LOD that far out. It would only put more strain on the computer. I dont know but it sounds logical to disable that LOD if its to far away from AIs.

This is only SPECULATION.

[Scrub 0]

As far as night vision is concerned, If you fill Ramadi with lotsa Opfor infantry and a few armor pieces at night, with a couple of A-10s, you'll see the difference.  The Armor is engaged and engages the A10s' right off the bat.  The Infantry is sporadically attacked on successive passes in the dark.  Run the scenario again, only use a M203 flare to illuminate the infantry (after the priority armor is destroyed), and you'll see an aggressive fireworks show from all A-10's hosing the Inf down with rockets and gunfire.

Well done!

[Sevan 0]

I have been replaying many old missions using this mod. and It completely and dramatically changed firefights. The pace and ranges are much more realistic.

I may fight an enemy squad for as much as ten minutes before being able to slowly move forward, and there still may be occaisional pot-shots from long distance enemies.

I have been using this, along with the newonderdog's tank ballistics. Armor now too, behaves much more realistically. I watched in shock as my tank support starting engaging enemy vehicles from 2km away.

I want to see what future versions of your modification will offer. Agian, amazing work.

[Sevan 0]

having played around much more with the mod since my last post I have some comments to make. I really like the longer engagement distances, but spotting is too instant, even when no shots have been fired.

I can be moving around in some very dense wooded area, and be spotted at 500+m range. My own AI will call out targets near instantly at very improbable long range, that as a human player is difficult to impossible to see.

I have not seen any recent dicussion about improving this mod in the past weeks. It is such a dramatic improvement over the unresponsive vanilla AI that it needs more attention.

[Rg 0]

Glad your enjoying it. So you and others know, it is still being developed and tweaked much further.

There will be a pretty massive update in the “near futureâ€. I have no idea when, because there are still quite a few areas we need to adjust and tweak, but the changelog should be quite long.

Basically, the beta was mainly just infantry tweaks. Recently, I have been overhauling the air and vehicle element of the game and gameplay will be even more different. If you played WGL before, the fear and devastation of vehicles will be very apparent. Even more so, the air element. Be prepared to run in fear when you see a jet or chopper lining up.

------------------------------------

As far as your comment,

That issue is somewhat resolved. Basically, the method for this mod was reworked to give similar results, but going about it in a slightly different way. Before there were some issues, for instance stance and speed didn’t effect spotting much. Now there is a big difference based on the speed you are moving at. Sprinting and walking can be the difference of ~200m. Crawling stealthy will also get you a lot closer unnoticed, but keep in mind, it’s still farther then default. You should notice that the gameplay will be much improved when a new version is released. You also have to keep in mind that it can never be perfect, because our spotting ability is always going to be different based on unit camo and the environment, whereas AI sadly don’t see color.

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

Got this TrueRangeAI running on a dedi server now along with Durg's vegeatation fix and VictorFarbau's VFAI fix.

Missions are way more interesting and fun, not to mention realistic, now.

AI skill at about .7 and accuracy around .4 seem to suit when these mods are all running together on the server.

THANKS FOR THIS GREAT ADDON.