M14 EBR

[Yossarian 0]

First, big thank-you to RobertHammer who put the gun in-game.

M14 EBR: coming Soon (...hopefully)

It's my first model for ArmA. I'm still learning. Right now it's just a texture and a model, no fancy normal/spec maps. Silencer, sniper scope, and Short-Dot scope are planned. Poly count right now is 4181 (so don't give a squad of 20 guys the EBR or you can kiss your framerates goodby) Sorry, that's how it is. And unless I find someone to do my schoolwork for me, there aren't going to be any LODs.

[Kerry 0]

pretty niceeee!!!!

[Flat!!! 0]

Good Work!!!

Really nice looking 14 there man

You can remove some details and replace em with the Normal mapping

Keep it up m8

[Blackbuck 9]

Wow an EBR she's purdy

[Messiah 2]

Poly count right now is 4181 (so don't give a squad of 20 guys the EBR or you can kiss your framerates goodby) Sorry, that's how it is. And unless I find someone to do my schoolwork for me, there aren't going to be any LODs.

M16 in arma is around the 3700 mark, so you're not actually that heavy on the faces.

No LOD's is an unusual decision - without them its essentially resigned to combat photography - at 4000 faces, at 50% reduction, you could get away with 3 extra LOD's - not that bad surely?

if you're using max, poly cruncher will do it for you

but she's a pretty rifle, must say - Have a soft spot for the M14 in all guises. Keep up the work!

[Yossarian 0]

Thanks for the tips guys.:D

It doesn't look as nice in-game as in the renders. I've still got a lot to learn about ArmA. BUT: it is in-game (thanks to RH) and fully functional (using Skaven's m14 mags). I still can't quite believe it.

It does have a normal and spec map now. I used CrazyBump and photoshop to make 'em.

@Messiah: tell me more about Poly Cruncher? I am using max 7. I don't want to release half arsed stuff, but something's better than nothing. (right?). But I'll do some googling for polycruncher tuts. After I iron out all the bugs in the first LOD, and a a scope or two, I'll try and work on LODs

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Not a criticism of the model, but that has to be absolutely

the ugliest incarnation of the M14 I've ever seen!

[Zadoff1880 0]

Normally I don't angry when I read...unwise ArmA forum posts, but not this time  

The model looks just right, you know, the only suggestion is that it needs CQB optics. The is also one EBR version that has longer barrel (like regular M14) + ACOG or whatever, and it's used for sniping - like that USMC m14 DMR.

Also, I see absolutely NO need for a M14 EBR silenced - it's awfully hard to make a SD version of a good 7.62x51 weapon in real life, and a silencer would certainly make it a lot less powerful... Anyway, do whatever you please, you and Robert did an outstanding job!

And what's up with "no LODs"?

It is really not that problematic to delete some parts of the main model and put what's left into a new LOD - a lot easier than you think, actually, especially when you r making a weapon, not a tank or a jet...

Hey, you could always ask Robert again, or Vilas?.. They both know a LOT about weapons in ArmA, but... I think Vilas used to make one-LOD-only weapons for OFP, so now I am not sure that he would the right person to talk to.

[nephilim 0]

no lod is a bad idea..

and yea if you refrain from making them, 4000 polys will kill performance with some squads full equipped with those..

conclusion..

make those lods...

[Yossarian 0]

Thanks for the help guys! It's all very appreciated as I'm still brand new at this

About the LODs: my concern is having to UWV map again. It took me a week to learn how to do it and then apply it to this model. It'll be faster the second time around, but I really would rather not do it 3/4 more times. Modeling down would be simple, a lot of "weld selected." Not worried about that. But is there any way to do these LODs without having to go through UWV mapping again? There's gotta be a shortcut!

@Zadoff, I'll be making a longer barelled version with sniper optics.

@Faulkner: Yup, she's a little, er, industrial.

I've found some good sounds from an old GR mod (Thumper1518's 7.62 mod). I'll see if I can get hold of him for permissions. Othwise wipman's gave me a few sounds.

Here's what she looks like rendered with the engine:

[Yossarian 0]

Thought I'd share some of the references I've been using. I'd like to eventually make a couple versions of the EBR to match these two:

This is supposedly the version being given to the SEALs:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums...

This is well used looking example from Iraq or A-stan:

here

These the kinda thing you were talking about Zadoff?

I'll also be making a Short-dot scope (1x-4x magnification)

edited: ty for the tip

[Messiah 2]

*cough* hotlinking of pictures is only allowed for those pics under 100kb in size *cough*

Hide them before you get stung by the mods

As for the poly cruncher - I don't use max so much myself, but it was a program a friend of mine talked about. I'll ask him about it when I next spot him online. Not sure if it keeps UV's either.

[wika_woo 182]

That looks damn good!...

Can't wait to try it out..

[-HUNTER- 1]

Oohh s***

That ingame picture is completly

Could you please post a picture with a scope added?

[DaSquade 0]

Modo (or Max, in the end same principle) keep UV mapping. So by simply deleting edges you will remain you hard work . I might be you will need to redo some stuff, but that is untill you start rebuilding the model to very simply geo and that shouldn't be a real time stopper..at least it pays the extra work.

Model looks pretty good imho. You do need to work bit time on the lightning values (sharp/smooth).

[Spartan 163 0]

Sweet ( I mean cool)

[Yossarian 0]

Thanks guys.

I'm working on the scope right now, so it'll be a few more days. I've got a new sound for the gun -- no idea how realistic it is, but it sounds good to me.

@DaSquade: thanks for the tips! I don't mind the modelling. it's jsut the unwrapping that kills me. And there is almost ZERO smooth modifier on that model. I just don't know how to use the groups and all that. Any tips??? Hopefully, I'll be fixing that on the scoped version.

3d question: on the top rail, how can I get that shaded line to go away. It's killing the 3d-effect texture. Is it possible?

PS: that model is all one texture. The scope will probably be on a second along with a silencer.

[nephilim 0]

if you use 3ds max adding smoothing groups is almost done with one click.

go to your editable poly > poly mode

select the whole model

in the poly tab scroll to the bottom

theres the smoothing groups

hit auto smooth.. (or what it was called)

this will create smoothing groups for each surface using a threshold you can set in degrees.

the smoothing groups are saved in those numbered buttons.

you also can add/manipulate them manualy.

unfortunately you can just select the edges you want to have sharp, but have to select boardering polygons and add them to different polygroups.

eg imagine a cone.

you want the bottom edge to be sharp whilest the cone itselft should be smooth.

select the bottom surface only and in the smoothing groups hit any free number lets say 1

then just invert the selection and hit any other free number (anything but 1).

the result will be a sharp edge.

as for the line on the rail.

this can be tricky

either make the whole upper surface one smoothing group and then play with normal maps or make that railing detailed and model each rib.

as a small hint arma models dont have to be enclosed and floating geometry works perfectly.

and as for uvw mapping

yea max will keep your uvw´s even if you kill some edges.

note tho that if you kill an edge that is also a seam in your uv map it will screw up those polys that use it.

i cant remember where but i think in the edge mode there is an option called preserve uvw´s. try it

cheers

[xnodunitx 0]

Also another trick that 3d max has or atleast 8 and 9 (possibly 7 and 6, not sure)

There is no need to really be worried about LOD's in terms of UV maps, all you have to do is make the LOD's and attach them to the same group the first LOD model is using.

Then they can share the same UV coordinates, simply do what you did with the first UV, however the best part of this is that you have the first coordinates to tell you what to put where.

Making new LOD model parts is better then welding vertices, take cylinders for example, welding vertices wouldn't be the best choice because certain parts would be too pointed and would take more moving around then their worth, it would be better to simple make a lesser polycount cylinder.

If you want to have an even easier time, use the cube icon in the editable poly to select certain parts of the gun, detach it and model your lower LOD part. This is a better choice for some parts if you want to simplify things a bit.

Also to make sure your lower LOD is matching better I would suggest applying a 40-50 opacity texture so the main LOD is transparent.

[nephilim 0]

or just press alt+x for x-ray mode

or was it ctrl +x??

[xnodunitx 0]

Either that or F3 as well, unless that was a max 8 and 9 only shortcut reroute.

[DaSquade 0]

Hm, i just had a look at my old 'to finish one day' folder and check my facecount of my M14 EBR models.

Something tells me your model is a. very badly made or b. uses to highpoly parts on places that don't stand out.

Meanwhile i would like to say i don't want to highjack or disrepect you etc...just want to point out a few things to you.

..and for those who wonder..my M14 models will probebly never see the daylight..unless someone does my RL work for me .

Stock M14 EBR (long EBR kit version) with ironsights:

Facecount (poly) +-3900.

-Highest res lod (but, also not the 'eye'/vizor view, as there you might want to have smoother recticles etc...but can compensate that by deleting other non visual parts).

-As far as i can see, smoother barrels aswell.

-3D lockpins in retracible stock.

-RIS 3d modelled (poly killer, but optimized).

-EBR engravings (no need, old model, normal maps would compensate that nowadays).

-Smoother bugstock.

-NON holes in the EBR front kit -> holes made in the texture, but it has internals.

-Cuttings for bolts of EBR kit.

-RIS mount for scope.

Maybe small details, but things that imho has big visual inpack.

Again, don't want to dish your model, but it might be handy to post some wires of the stock M14 EBR in the 'WIP stuff your working on topic'...i think 'we' can reduce some losts of stuff.

Why the need of optimize?...Well if everybody just do their thing, more people will complain that ArmA is a lagfest etc .

Again, my model isn't the best, and nor is yours (like you pointed out afaik, you are pretty new to modelling? IF so, good job, but losts of room for improvement).

The improvements doesn't mean you will need to redo all, but i think we can point out some things can can be changed without loosing your UV cords on model.

Also why i say this....is this is 'STOCK' version (iron sights).

If you plan on making a tricked out version with zoom sights, lasers, bipods and all candy a kids want, you will end with a monster for perfromence.

To give you one example of an equiped M14 EBR:

Polycount +-6.8k, knowing that my stock version this is based on is 3.9k....but level of detail remains in equipement if not more.

If you have questions, feel free to shoot, but i suggest you take this to the WIP section .

Again, i hope i didn't stepped on your toes, just helping to point yu something out.

[Zadoff1880 0]

A longer barelled version with sniper optics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CSA-2006-10-17-093634.jpg

Or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TroopBaghdadM14s.jpg

DaSquade - Ok, and the future fate of these models remains

unknown?..

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Looks lovely. Tell me:

- how many separate textures is the EBR using at this point? If it's > 3, it's too many! If it's < 3, ignore this.

- you could also consider passing your finished model onto another modder to make your LODs/spectral maps/normal maps as well... neither are too hard with the right tools and you'd still receive due credit, of course!

(...if you consider the last option, I recommend you PM the man they call Skaven...)

[DaSquade 0]

Back on topic post:

Zadoff1880

Are you sure this is M14 based? Just wondering, as i once made contact with a guy on MP.net who had a 'long' barrel EBR kit, but it turned out to be a M21 converted to EBR version. I would need to check my ref. pics of his riffle, but something tells me the wiki isn't correct. Feel free to shoot me (long barrel style) if not .

Just had a look...

One of the pics of him...converted M21 in EBR kit. Looks simular in my eyes...

Offtopic post:

Zadoff1880

Future fate is that this was more based on OPF/VBS and model would need the slightly remade (things that normal maps can cover good..in the end not that much i think).

But it is mostly the finished textures of my stock consists out of muliple textures (i could merge them though)....

Oh well, other (new) things has pushed this to the background untill i win the lottery.

Back on topic:

Like Cameron MCD pointed out, keep the amount of textures low. Stock version should cover 1 texture, where additional equipment can be spread over multiple (1 per part best), at least that was and still is my view on it.