TOW missile targeting

[BigFart 0]

If I sit in a Hummer with TOW's , I can't really target a tank or what so ever -correct me if i'm wrong- I have to right-click on the tank until the box shows and another box comes sort of sideways in the other box and fire- it doesnt really work for me

[opteryx 1562]

Do you mean making the AI shoot or yourself?

If you're the gunner, the TOW is wire guided and you'll have to keep the reticle on center mass until impact, well maybe you need to add some manual lead since ArmA doesn't have a very realistic TOW.

If you mean for the AI I'm not sure, I never let those morons handle such dangerous equipment...

[mr reality 0]

I wont touch the TOW weapons until there fixed. The flight path of the missile is ridiculus. If I or my AI squad fires the TOW, it almost always hits infront of the target.

I don't like the way you have to keep the right mouse button pressed to keep the zoom either. Why cant it be like the tank commanders optics. And is the zoom realistic, because its not very magnified.

[-Puma- 2]

tow and javelin are bugged like hell. shot 4 tows at a tank 200m infront of me and none of 'em hit. they introduced steerable tow in 1.08 but the prob is that u can't zoom the fucking weapon well enough + the trail smoke blocks the view of the actual missile. these 2 things make tow's pretty much useless to use ur own unless the target is 50 m away. allso the damned javelin needs some work allso. these 2 weapons should kill a tank easily at 1000m

distance

[Beagle 684]

The TOW in game might not be so easy to steer like a real one with SACLOS.

It's the same with MBT main guns...no computer corrected aiming.

But with a little practice and beyond 500 meters it works quite well...you can also have a good chance of shooting down helicopters with the TOW or AT-5.

[frederf 0]

There's a bit of misinformation going on in this thread.

The TOW tries to turn to hit where your crosshair is pointing.

You don't have hold right click to keep it zoomed... try Num_+.

The smoke, lack of much zoom, and missile wobble make for some tricky shooting at any range and a really tough hit at 1000m.

[Commando84 0]

yeah Tow is though but i figured out during brief tests that it works decently well when im at high ground and the target vehicle is at low ground like in a valley and im at a hill or mountain looking down at it.

[Beagle 684]

I usually launch it "alofting" high und after launch aim at the upper part of the target...upper front when target is moving.

Choppers are harder...I do lead shots more intuitive.

[King-Six 0]

just use the auto guide at function in the difficulty menu,

or dont use them. i use tows and javlins all the time and i have never missed even 1 time. its almost too easy.

[Beagle 684]

It seems that the average ArmA player wants it all set to hard...and just a bit later complain that the game is to hard.

I tortured myself for some time with the veteran setting until it came into my mind that the campaign and SP missions might supposed to be played on regular.

You can still uncheck all help options in reglar but in general is is much more configurable than veteran mode...which is just that: hard!

[NonWonderDog 0]

The TOW missiles aren't actually that bad if you give the missiles realistic (MUCH MUCH MUCH lower) thrust and maneuverability values (as in my Realistic Ballistics mod) and boost the optics zoom up to 15x or so like it's supposed to be. There are only two problems that really annoy me:

(1) ATGMs will track 1-2 meters below the aiming point at all times.

(2) No matter what the maximum control range is set to, ATGMs will suddenly start to fly in uncontrollable vertical loops after traveling 1500 m.

Well, that and the lack of ATGM countermeasures. There are a bunch of modern tanks that can supposedly shoot these things out of the sky. Failing that, tankers should pop smoke and reverse behind concealment as fast as possible if they see a missile. Tanks don't even have working smoke dischargers in ArmA.

[BigFart 0]

Thnx for the replies, but I still have problems...

Well, I won't be around too long cuz I'm off to holidays on Korsika, yes its far away, yes it will be a pain to get there , yes it will be beatifull!!!

[zaphod 0]

Big Fart ~ of course ...

[BigFart 0]

Don't believe me zaphod?

I'll make some photos and put em on here

[Richklink 0]

My father used to fly Lynx Attack helicopters in the British Army and TOW was the primary weapon. He is obviously qualified to answer questions on TOW - so I asked him -

Quote[/b] ]Hi Mate,

Please could you answer a question for me? The games that we play online are military based and one of the weapons we use are HMMV launched TOW. We have TOW in the game but without any magnification so trying to hit something more than 100m is impossible. Do you know the effective killing ranges of TOW from memory? And if indeed there is, what is the magnification in the sight unit and is the killing process as easy as perhaps aiming slightly higher than the target and aiming the rocket down on top? I would be very surprised if there was no magnification on the unit!

Sorry to bore you with this one

Rich

So his reply was:

Quote[/b] ]Hi Rich,

The maximum range of TOW is 3750 metres! The sight we use in the Lynx to guide the missile to target is x2 and x10 (x2 for aquisition, x10 for engagement). Although the max range is 3750, we found that around 2000 was the optimum range. Longer than that and you have to keep 'lifting' the missile in the crosshairs to get it to fly straight. You always aim to keep the crosshairs on centre of mass.

There was a newer version of the missile called ITOW (Improved TOW) which was designed to delay exploding until it penetrated the armour.

The last one we had was called FITOW (Further Improved TOW). This devious missile was designed to fly over the top of the tank and explode downwards when directly overhead thereby exploiting every tank's weakest spot - the top! The missile did this automatically, ie., the operator still kept the crosshairs on centre of target.

Hope that helps!

Happy TOWing!

Dad

Please BIS, let's get in line with reality here, or at least the ability to be able to use the tools provided to us as used in the real world effectively! At the moment the TOW is like a fairground attraction that you cannot win!

[SD_BOB 10]

Aye the TOW definatly needs some work, but the Javelin (although def needs improving) is a very effective weapon. Just wish the whole thermal thing wasnt such a problem in ArmA, then we could actually use it lik is supposed to be used. Please BI use your thermal knowledge from VBS2 to at least give us a basic element.

[sparks50 0]

I wonder what they will call the next TOW?

I'm trying my best not to BIbash here, but the fact that they seem too ignore military advisers totally in these matters is pretty sad.

[Second 0]

TOW guy here. BIS's ATGM's never have worked like they would in real life, hard to say has none of aTGM's in games worked like they should. Steering is too lazy mostly, this with OFP and in ArmA too i quess, i actually haven't tried ArmA TOW or AT-5.

I don't know how hard it would be to do properly guiding ATGM for game. But this far, like i said, noone gets it right. Main problem ofcourse is that you can't use mouse as you would use forexample TOW's 'guidingunit', i can't immerse myself with mouse in this and atleast my mouses aren't nearly as accurate, mouse is designed for fast draws, not slow draws (they become unaccurate kinda 'jumpy'. Same issue is with T-72 Iron warrior/balkan on fires...

Bit more to 'TOWdaddy's' info: Minimumrange is about 200-250 meters. At that point missile has burned it's travel fuel, and now it starts gliding (it becomes more stabile and smoke should drifts away. It is possible for gunner to loose missile and target for few seconds, expacely when using more-powerful ITOW and TOW2). Fuze is set on at ~60 meters, but hitting something is about luck. Stationary target is quite okay, but moving is another thing. I haven't heard of missile's need for "lift up" after 2000 meters... hmm intresting. This might be some earlier version's problem? Not sure which model they improved with this But both my gunner's manual and instructors ever talked about this and this far i havent' heard any one saying anything about this. It might be that it's has been just ignored by my sources, we usually were engagning targets closer than 1 kilometer distances.

Few facts straight:

ArmA's TOW should have just solid 13x dayoptic. Thermal imaging sights aren't included in TOW model in ArmA, it has just dayoptic even in 3D-model (not sure about Stryker-model. Haven't used that kind IRL). I think 'TOWdaddy' was talking about thermals or then he used some chopper customized optics (i don't know nothing about them). I was in infantry it was just 13x dayoptic or thermal with 4x and 12x in TOW.

EDIT: Question is what do you do forexample 13x times zoom in ArmA, engagement distances are very short. Over 1 kilometer is rare. Only distance in where i could engage targets over 2 kilometers is thin sea-area in between south-west parts of N. Sahrani and north parts of S. Sahrani.

Oh and like said TOW's speed in ArmA is very high, it's like Soviet ATGMs (their practical minimum range is almost douple to TOW, we had those systems too in use). TOW's maximum speed is almost 300 meters in second (this at 200-300 meters when travel fuel has been burned). TOW in reality reaches 1 kilometer distance in 4-5 seconds, it glides in speed about 250 meters per second). 3750 meters in 22 seconds (glides 100 meters in second). I'm not sure about ArmA TOW's speed, basically could say that it doesn't loose it's speed. About speeds of Soviet/Russian ATGM's i can't tell, our own Soviet ATGM's have been replaced by Spike and i can't easily gain my hands on gunner's manual dealing with those missiles.

i'm sorry if 'TOWdaddy'-name is offending, it's not my intention to use it in negative way, i find it nice name, hopefully my kid will use it someday, when TOW is already obsolent tool of war and he has been trained to something like Spike 3 at year 2020 ... Oh! i got sidetracked again. Back top original issue with name 'TOWdayddy': If it seems to be offending i will stop using of it.

[frederf 0]

It's really cool to hear word from an actual TOW operator.

Would it be safe to say that a few major improvements could be:

1. High magnification optic

2. Slower missile

[subs17 9]

It's really cool to hear word from an actual TOW operator.

Would it be safe to say that a few major improvements could be:

1. High magnification optic

2. Slower missile

I think the missile should follow the same as described by Towguy BTW if we mapped the TOW steering to the joystick hat it would add a more realistic guidance method for both Humvee and Cobra launches. 2000m seems reasonable for max engagement range.

[Second 0]

I should test this new guidable ArmA ATGM first (i just got bit too over-entuhistic about subject, again). Right now i don't have time for it, but i'll try test ArmA's today. Explanation: I automatically thought that they are like OFP's missiles are... Sorry

To be reminded: I haven't fired real TOW myself, i was squadleader in army which can give just one or two missile for each squad in training, those were fired by squad's gunners: so my experience and info comes from gunners in my former squad and platoon, my instructors, gunner manual and videos i've seen. I've took out few tanks out with laser during exercises and done lots of firing exercises with laser, but as someone might know laser-simulator isn't same as real missile. It tries to simulate, but it isn't 100% real thing. TOWdaddy's view as a actual TOW gunner in good and valuable (i quess he has fired few if not several of them).

[Second 0]

ArmA's TOW has same problems as with OFP.

-It doesn't hit (usually grashes ground between target and me). This might mean that missile does too big swaying movement during flight, atleast 2-3 meters from line of sight. Way too much...

-Missile guiding is waaaaaaay tooooooooo laaaaaaaaaazy, once i move my retice to some direction, my missile can't keep up with reticle. If i fire it to sky and move my reticle for about 5-10 mils sideways, missile seems to travel straight and does not correct itself. And if it does correct itself it corrects itself too slow. It should immediatly try to follow reticle. Right now it seems to travel several hundreds of meter without reaction.

-Missile is bit too fast to 1 kilometer, average 3 or 3.5 seconds, so it's not a issue. If it would guide itself properly i would gain hits.

-Mouse is issue with me. Reticle moves in jumps (as my mouse jumps), at slow speeds and overall is highly inaccurate. It can't beat strudy 26 kilograms bulk of metal designed for that porpuse, which has to be operated with upper body (moving sideways) and wrists/arms (moving up-down)... It is great way to gain fine control over reticle, altough mouse is lighter to carry Again, this doesn't matter as missile doesn't respond to reticle's moves.

[subs17 9]

Try mapping it to your joystick or joystick hat.

[-Puma- 2]

"TOWdaddy" ??

[Second 0]

"TOWdaddy" ??

Richklink's dad was Gunner in Lynx attack helo, which had TOWs. Simple ain't it

SUBS17: My joystic is worthless piece of (cheap) junk.