Less and less CTF players.

[Dudester 0]

I really thought that when 1.08 patch was released that we would see alot more players in CTF. I have to say i am disappointed so far by the lack of player numbers i see.

[Jackal326 1181]

There are numerous debates (or at least have been in the past) on these forums as to which game-type people prefer, and from what I remember from the few posts I read most people are around for co-ops and TDM. Thats probably the issue, people just prefer other game-types.

[wamingo 1]

I think it's been said before - arma is too slow paced for ordinary ctf. Capture and Hold probably makes more sense and the biggest server right now, by a huge margin, is a C&H.

[slingblade20000 0]

sorry to hear your fustration with nobody playing CTF, i use my squad as a exsample we are a USA based squad that played CTF for 6 years and if your the same dudester we have had many matches against your old squad.

We had 20 members all ready to go when the demo came out. We downloaded it and each one said "what the heck did they do to OFP" and that was it uninstalled it and we never looked back. I think thats why theres no old OFP CTF squads playing it. i know were waiting on OFP2 and maybe thats what the others are doing as well.

[Dudester 0]

sorry to hear your fustration with nobody playing CTF, i use my squad as a exsample we are a USA based squad that played CTF for 6 years and if your the same dudester we have had many matches against your old squad.

We had 20 members all ready to go when the demo came out. We downloaded it and each one said "what the heck did they do to OFP" and that was it uninstalled it and we never looked back. I think thats why theres no old OFP CTF squads playing it. i know were waiting on OFP2 and maybe thats what the others are doing as well.

Well i wasn't sorry till i read a few of these posts, but i sure am now. I really belived they were of to change these animations in a patch. I did notice alot of former OFP clans turn up at the start of AA, then disappear suddenly.

I belive the problem we have here is clan based. Most clans play CTF, but Armed Assault is not offering that. C&H, well Unless you have the numbers to play clan games your pretty much screwed.

[Luciano 0]

The CTF, DM, and pretty much everything other than coop community is long gone. Many moved to RO, or other games. There are few left.

[Dudester 0]

The CTF, DM, and pretty much everything other than coop community is long gone.  Many movied to RO, or other games.  There are few left.

You don't need to tell me about it. I just have to logon to see it. Just need to know one more thing before i leave, are the animations of to be changed, and a better CTF employed in the near future.

[telejunky 0]

But you should consider that ArmA isnt soem mainstream game with lots of fans like the bf series where actually over 100 persons are still plaing the 1942 grand grand edition...

So i guess it's more a prob about the number of players. That's a fascinating phenomenon, because of the few players left online they play evolution. Evo can be played with 4 friends, actually alone[...], and by the time someone sees those servers and he don't like full servers, by some other time there will join other players and so on...at the end there are playing 30+ players this evo.

So, what about pvp?

Go on a server with some friends and start berzerk or ctf. It will take a long time until someone joined.

Like Sleepdoc said:

Evolution is a great sandbox and meeting place for the old guard to indoctrinate the new guys. This fits to other coops as well.

So another point would be that ctf is more complicated than just kicking ai asses or holding some areas for you own. Let's discuss it

typos inclusive

[Dudester 0]

I work hard, so i cannot spend hours on servers waiting for a good CTF. I gave up my dedicated server when i realised this game could not play CTF like OFP did. I also know of others that are about to follow suit. I wanted this game to work aswell, but i hate coops. I tried to get into them but its not for me.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

put only CTFs and DMs on your server, and play on it every night.....

you will see your type of players come out of the woodwork.

been there done that.

ps, its also helps to make better CTF maps than Frantics mass prouced maps ( )

luv ya Frantic

[BigRed 2]

Zippy I just started a list of coop free server in MP section.  Server admins are the only way to help this, remove EVO and other coops from your server lists.

[walker 0]

Hi all

CTF and DM are a hangover from the era of small shoebox and corridor shooter games like Doom, CS and BF. As a game play style even in OFP they were almost extinct.

I know for a lot of CTF players it is that CTF servers are dieing out on the other games too, CS and BF are in terminal decline. I think some thought they could rebuild their culture and graft it on to ArmA. I think they still can but it is not going to be be the predominant form it once was

I am not denying there will always be a place for a mad half hour of hexenkessel and the like but they are a very artificial feeling form a bit like space invaders a classic of its time but we have advanced since then.

The problem with CTF is that it is an old fashioned form of game play more advanced forms that require proper team play and cooperation are taking over.

Capture and Hold, Coop and PVP Coop were the predominant form in OFP over the last few years; as the complexity is what interests most people, the range of roles and ways you can play means you have more "self actualisation" available to you, see "Maslow's hierarchy of needs" which is what game play is about.

The whole playing for points thing is very archaic. With the wide open possibilities and large scale maps that ArmA is capable of supporting.

The thing is you cannot play a DM or CTF with the 60 plus players that ArmA servers can run and the majority of players are interested in really big battles which is what ArmA is about.

There is no other game where you can get servers running with 60 plus players running for days on end in the same battle.

ArmA is changing the face of on line FPS play with new forms of game such as Evolution and the many other new forms that ArmA is capable of spawning.

It is a brave new ArmA world but there is nothing to stop the CTF and DM crowd carving themselves a corner in it. They need to get to together some of their own servers and create scenarios that interest the players. At the very least they should be able to create a CTF and DM server of their own and fill it with people of a like mind.

On a personal note I play 1 hour in ten as CTF and no DM.

Kind Regards walker

[sbsmac 0]

Walker, once again you trot out the old adage that CTF doesn't require teamplay and cooperation. Have you ever actually played a league CTF ? Have you ever even played a public medium-sized CTF where people actually used sidechat to communicate with each other ? I have, but I've also played many coops where players just rushed for the objective as a bunch of rambos. Hopefully you can understand that teamplay is a property of the people playing rather that the map type.

To claim that ArmA is changing the face of online play is hopeful at best. As I write, (gamespy claims 76000 players of Half Life (presumably this is CS) whereas ArmA stats here show 361 players online. I'd truly like ArmA to have better numbers (even if they were all coop! but the sad reality is that this is still very much a niche game which has failed, so far, to repeat the success of OFP. Maybe that will change over the next few months with 1.08 out and with the expansion pack offering another set of review opportunities.

[Second 0]

Yup. I Don't MP atall these days. Couple months ago atleast little bit, usually it was CTF or capture&hold, but not anymore as maps became boooring. I tought that JIP in ArmA would boost my desire to play MP but seems that it can't save the simplicity and un-imagination of current maps.

Well, i can live with it fine. I'm more SP person or MP in LAN-person if given a change.

[{USI}_Zombie 0]

It isn't that ArmA isn't CTF friendly, it's that there are few decent CTF maps, and even fewer decent CTF players.  We have tried and 30v30 is not a ctf, unless your definition is camp the field.  Anymore than 12v12 really doesn't work for a good ctf game.  A lot of the newer players seem to think they "win" a ctf if they get the most kills, consequently, they never venture more than 1 quarter of the way across the map and set up a campsite.  That's fine for a DM, but in my book anyway, you "win" a ctf by capturing the most flags.  My team has won many ctf's and got less than half the kills of the other side.

 What is needed to have the ctf make a comeback is:

1)  A good league...TNT was the premier league and hopefully hasn't died.

2)  Better maps...there is time for Hex and drop zone and corridor...but for serious ctf play we need more maps like CastleKeep, St.P, and Big Everon...and my team is working on that issue.

3)  Player education and a fundamental paradigm change in what a ctf is...kills don't count, only flags...the only kills you should be getting are in support of flag hangs.  I am working on a script that constantly removes a players score and kill count  and only displays score gotten from flagtouch and flagcap.

We at {USI} thoroughly enjoy CTF and WANT to start playing it more, but the problems we are encountering, outlined above, just make it too frustrating right now...but we have every hope that things will get better and a large, dedicated, and enthusiastic ctf community can come to ArmA.

[celery 8]

CTF and DM are a hangover from the era of small shoebox and corridor shooter games like Doom, CS and BF. As a game play style even in OFP they were almost extinct.

That phrase of yours is a hangover from a million older threads you have posted in, and it's even incorrect. It doesn't take much brains to know that there will be competitions of who steals something or kills everyone else the most in any game that allows such mechanics. In Flashpoint CTF was even the dominant game mode at one point and DM was not far behind.

I am not denying there will always be a place for a mad half hour of hexenkessel and the like but they are a very artificial feeling form a bit like space invaders a classic of its time but we have advanced since then.

The problem with CTF is that it is an old fashioned form of game play more advanced forms that require proper team play and cooperation are taking over.

I am willing to state that winning a CTF match against another organised team takes a lot more proper teamplay and "co-op" than any coop mission you can find. When talking about CTF you never forget to mention your mad half hour of Hexenkessel to appear like you know what you're talking about, still without realizing that it's not even a proper CTF map to begin with, like Evolution compared to other coop missions.

CTF is more advanced than coop, A&D, or C&H so you are not correct in saying that there are more advanced forms. Of course you don't agree because you have already made up your mind, but I know that my statement is correct.

[BigRed 2]

Quote[/b] ]CTF is more advanced than coop, A&D, or C&H so you are not correct in saying that there are more advanced forms. Of course you don't agree because you have already made up your mind, but I know that my statement is correct.

Can't say I agree with that Cel C&H is like having 3 to 5 flags to attack or defend unless your say it's harder to score then yes I will agree with you.

I am sure though anyone that says there is no team work in CTF or any PvP then they have only played by themselves on public and even I will say that sucks because everygame no matter what the style is turns into who can be the high point man.  Unfortunitly those of us that defend our PvP are for the most part from Squads and most us here in this thread have won some kind of championship in OFP and knows that feeling is more grand X 10 then completing any coop.

All I can say is if you want a great PvP experience join a team, create a team, or at least find some buddies to play with, then you guys will know why PvP are so passionate for our style of play.

[Maddmatt 1]

It's amazing how closed-minded some of you are when it comes to online games. Can't you enjoy more than one type of game mode?

Quote[/b] ]...Hexenkessel...it's not even a proper CTF map to begin with, like Evolution compared to other coop missions.

The only parts of Celery's post that I agree with.

Quote[/b] ]CTF is more advanced than coop, A&D, or C&H so you are not correct in saying that there are more advanced forms. Of course you don't agree because you have already made up your mind, but I know that my statement is correct.

Again with this "my game mode is better than yours" BS. CTF is not 'advanced', none of the game modes mentioned are advanced. Sure they are great to play, but there is nothing advanced about them and you can't compare them. They are all great competitive games.

I do agree that the masses of servers playing Evolution is just ridiculous.

Personally I enjoy any good team based game mode or coop.

Instead of complaining, why don't some of you go make some decent maps, and/or join the few who are playing. That's the only way you can make a difference, otherwise things are just going to get worse.

Also, some servers should delete Evolution to encourage people to play other missions.

[Jack-UK 0]

I completely agree with MaddMatt.

The gametypes are all different, the game is flexible enough to accomodate many types of mission, which means you can play COOPs or any sort of PVP.

If you dont like it, dont play it. I personally will play anything, if the map is good, then i'll play it, there are some great COOPs out there, there are some great C&H/CTFs etc out there. DM Pack is always a blast =)

But a bit more variety would be good... Evo dominates the server list, Quite often theres tons of servers with just a few public players on it, i just wish people would play it on fewer servers and just fill up the numbers a bit more...

More choice please! Then everyone is happy.

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

yes cel, it is, but how you wanna teach ai players about "real"alistic opponments. you can't even show them with the arma we got.

i think its not the maps, league (only GC) and clan's fault that ctf never will be a succes in here. the problem is like dudester said,

ANIM, BALLISTIC AND SOUND

BIS never left a comment on those issues and they propably never will as they give a s... about the ctf comunity. i somehow got the feeling they wanna get rid of us and G2 will be even.worse as it should become a RPG game, which is good for some fun but not what i'm waiting for. i'm actualy starting to believe that Codemaster was the best that happend to BIS back in 2001 and the devorce the worste what could happen to us "Rambos".

never thought i said somethink like this as i was a fanboy myself over the last 5 years, but i'm waiting for Codemasters Flashpoint2 and COD4 right now.

PS: did some tried the crCTI config, i saw that they changed alota stuff like ballistic and balancing back to ofp feeling.

[Heatseeker 0]

guerilla @ June 24 2007,13:23)]yes cel, it is, but how you wanna teach ai players about "real"alistic opponments. you can't even show them with the arma we got.

i think its not the maps, league (only GC) and clan's fault that ctf never will be a succes in here. the problem is like dudester said,

ANIM, BALLISTIC AND SOUND

BIS never left a comment on those issues and they propably never will as they give a s... about the ctf comunity. i somehow got the feeling they wanna get rid of us and G2 will be even.worse as it should become a RPG game, which is good for some fun but not what i'm waiting for. i'm actualy starting to believe that Codemaster was the best that happend to BIS back in 2001 and the devorce the worste what could happen to us "Rambos".

never thought i said somethink like this as i was a fanboy myself over the last 5 years, but i'm waiting for Codemasters Flashpoint2 and COD4 right now.

PS: did some tried the crCTI config, i saw that they changed alota stuff like ballistic and balancing back to ofp feeling.

And whats wrong with the ballistics, sound and anims?

If these were downgraded to be OPF alike you still wouldnt have any more servers hosting ctf so stop blaming bis... the game ships with ctf maps doesnt it? Even the demo did...

Dont any of the ctf squads have servers up? I've seen very few ctf servers but the few i saw had many players. If more servers hosted c&h, ctf, tdm etc people would play them too.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I personaly think that CTF is a very small and declining portion of the FPS community. The plane fact is that in OFP it disapeared and apart from hexenkessle it virtualy no map makers have made any CTF maps I think it is because not even the CTF fans in this thread can be arsed to do it. They would rather post in BIS forums.

As to he balisitics anims and sound, the CTF crowd needs to get its act together and make a CTF mod as those in the Half Life mod did when they created CS.

If there realy is demand for CTF then the CTF community will get together servers and mods and maps and people will play on them.

The correct thread would have been for someone with webspace to set up a page for it and to create a thread that anounced, "We are creating a CTF mod for ArmA!" in Addons under construction and then MOD some weapon configs and anims to have laser ballisitics, then put up a server, set up a league to encourage other clans and make loads of CTF maps.

If you realy think there is market for it quit having a moan and do something about it.

If you think there is a future for CTF: Dudester, sbsmac, Celery, Luciano et al prove it.

Kind Regards walker

[Heatseeker 0]

And why would ctf need laser ballistics? OPF didnt have laser ballistics...

Is there a large ctf (30 vs 30) map featuring jip with random flag placements and stuff?

That would be fun .

[whisper 0]

guerilla @ June 24 2007,14:23)]yes cel, it is, but how you wanna teach ai players about "real"alistic opponments. you can't even show them with the arma we got.

i think its not the maps, league (only GC) and clan's fault that ctf never will be a succes in here. the problem is like dudester said,

ANIM, BALLISTIC AND SOUND

BIS never left a comment on those issues and they propably never will as they give a s... about the ctf comunity. i somehow got the feeling they wanna get rid of us and G2 will be even.worse as it should become a RPG game, which is good for some fun but not what i'm waiting for. i'm actualy starting to believe that Codemaster was the best that happend to BIS back in 2001 and the devorce the worste what could happen to us "Rambos".

never thought i said somethink like this as i was a fanboy myself over the last 5 years, but i'm waiting for Codemasters Flashpoint2 and COD4 right now.

PS: did some tried the crCTI config, i saw that they changed alota stuff like ballistic and balancing back to ofp feeling.

Just a correction : CM was not the best that happened to BI, it's the best that happened to YOU, and what YOU wanted to do with the game.

Btw, how in hell did ballistics and sounds hampered CTF gameplay? Anim I can perfectly understand.... Ballistics and sounds? You can't somewhat aim & click @ 500m distance anymore? Big deal, it's not like 80% of played ArmA CTF did not give you truckloads of cover to go closer to your target anyway.

As for "no other game than CTF has teamplay".... where the hell did that come from, too? I always read commentaries from CTF players complaining that "coop" guys are narrowminded and refuse their gameplay. If the above comment is not a holier than thou attitude, I don't know what it is.

Now, if you watch ArmA and see what it succesfully brought new... well, it deals mainly with range, scale, and numbers. All of which are NOT well suited for a low to middle scale CTF map, with medium number of player.

No, BI didn't watch the CTF maps when they designed their game. Which means CTF is kind of FUBARd in public gameplay. It's not taking advantage of what ArmA can give (better view distance, more players, more AI if needed).

I think otoh, that League play is still very possible, as League with 12 vs 12 matches could still very well keep up with mods designed for them (wishfull thinking on my part). Ofc, not compatible with public gameplay, where you will find more C&H-esque games (thing you find atm)

[Luciano 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you think there is a future for CTF: Dudester, sbsmac, Celery, Luciano et al prove it

I rather install OFP and play real CTF in OFP with some friends.

The reason CTF and basically everything other than coop, is lacking is because of the game, not the maps.

ARMA animations and movements are too rough for such games. It feels you are controlling a robot with a joystick. To me it doesn't feel like playing at all and its not enjoyable at all. Thats why I gave up CTF and basically ARMA as shooting AI all day ain't my thing.