Bi forum for life?

[sickboy 13]

About others being banned and all... I guess it's pretty simple...

You can be the most beautiful person in the world...

You can be the most inteligent person in the world...

You can be the most generous person in the world...

At the end of the day; Rules are Rules and they are supposed to be followed... Of course you can give ppl extra chances, more space to evolve, whatever... still, rules are rules, even for the guru's...

I was coming here everyday throughout the whole day, but this stagnated and gotten to 'a few times per week'.

Actually, usually to keep up with the Addons & Mods Forums, aswell as the editing forums, sometimes a reply to a troubleshooting item etc...

I can't really tell why... I guesss it has to do with the amount of Whining and BIS Bashing that was going on for quite a while, while i'm actually visiting these forums for fun and technical aspects, not to read every day that a 1000 dollar system doesn't run the game on 600% details and 20k viewdistance... (ok ok, ARmA Really does have/had problems in certain areas, so it's a bit funny meant)

Another problem for me is the poor forum software. I worked with Linux etc (loads of stuff to do through shell/command line)... and it's simple, at the end of the day, it's maybe cool to have the power of ur computer at ur finger tips, but you wasted half a day ramming your keyboard buttons to get things done that are simply done with 1 mouse click on a Windows System....

Same goes here with forums... im sick and tired of crappy BBCode writing, urls that don't work properly when an # or other special symbol is used... Threads that don't get merged but locked, because there are probs with forum software...

That kinda crap... it's no fun for me to write large posts especially not with formatting etc...

Then the search options, which are a total blunder.... Any forum that can't display just the/WHICH posts contain the searched term should be burned on sight

Other reasons simply might be that there aint that much interesting going on these days, may it be the amounts of ppl, or that most base things already are worked out/discussed...

Another thing is of course that for OFP every week there was something coming out, something new to play/test around with, talk about etc... which prolly comes back when we get the tools etc.

My guesses about why other ppl left;

[*] They expect an EA-Games -alike service & support capacity and didn't get it

[*] They feel unheard by BIS. Some ppl have supported OFP over all the years (Think about numerious of mods, addons, scripts, posts, etc. etc.), and since ArmA got released in very fragile state, the Patching process also hasn't been too progressing for some ppl in some areas... I guess this creates anger at such persons (I actually know a few)

[*] They are waiting for upcoming patches

[*] They found another forum better suited to their needs, maybe more specialized etc

[*] They didn't read about ArmA being OFP 1.5 and expected 3.0 , I think ppl get biased due to false expectations etc

[*] ArmA Simply doesn't meet their gaming needs/wishes

[*] They know 2000% better how to make games than BIS so they started their own game (I guess the first part is their thought, the 2nd is of course never gonna happen )

[Tovarish 0]

People who suggest that it has been that way are simply not right as there never was a place for that here.

Historically speaking there was, it was called the OT forum .

And in my opinion it worked quite well for quite a long time before things got as authoritarian as they are.

But, things change, some of us play under the new set of rules, some of us simply leave, and some of us look for creative ways to earn the next WL, slowly comitting suicide by moderator .

[JdB 151]

Quote[/b] ]While I see that the mods are struggling hard since Placebo left, I don´t agree with the "they lock it all" statement.

In fact Placebo would have locked much more threads faster than as it is happening today.

He absolutely would have.

The difference is however that some of the new moderators reward any post that they feel is wrong with a 48h PR and/or WL increase. I can understand that people new to the "job" may need some time to adjust, I've had quite an extensive discussion with Shadow about this, the need to fit into a team, to learn from mistakes etc.

So far I haven't noticed any improvement with certain individuals, the only times the forums appear normal is when these particular moderators (which I will not name in public) are away, and not visiting the forums for an extended period of time.

I've also contacted some other members that have had no, or little previous conflicts with the now ex-moderators, and heard pretty much the same. Where as Placebo and other ex-moderators used to give out first-time warnings such as "Please don't do that again" or "Please refrain from posting such content" (for things such as spam), and closing the thread, these particular moderators typically respond to any situation with PR's and WL's without warning.

Moreover they seem to lack self-criticism in regards to their own actions.

[karantan 0]

But, things change, some of us play under the new set of rules, some of us simply leave, and some of us look for creative ways to earn the next WL, slowly comitting suicide by moderator .

Yea, I had/have also in mind to play with this last variant, done it on some other forums, with those uber-smart-unmistakably-rigid-tight-assed mods on OFPEC for instance (in my eyes their moto is one of the greatest lies I met on the Internet). As I see it right now this can/could be the most dignifying variant to leave this forum.

And I knew this thread will turn into some kind of the anti-mods rant. But where's the smoke ...

[Daniel 0]

JdB and Tovarish, good points.

[crashdome 3]

I dont see what is so difficult.

I've been here for 6 years and never once did I ever get a WL.

I've flamed, had my outbursts, heck.. even had a few deleted threads, but I guess the thing that stands me out is I:

[*]usually take it to PM when I feel it sliding downhill

[*]discuss things with those in authority using as best a dignified response as they usually deserve

[*]instead of calling them outright names atleast tell them why I am upset and what would make me feel better knowing full well that *just because I want it doesnt mean they have to make it so*.

I guess the important is the last one. I dont run things... they do. Even if I *think* they are boneheads for doing something one way doesn't mean I am right nor does it mean they dont have the right to be that way if they want. People tend to forget that this is not a nation, but a forum or company meeting place. It is not your local town square.

I'll agree it isn't as loose as some other forums you might see in other areas... but it is FAR more loose than I remember. I think that low period where nothing was being heard about ArmA yet and alot of people left OFP set the bar lower than it should have ever been.

In the old days, alot of the people we dont see around here anymore would even stand up for the mods or in place of the mods and calm things down. Maybe they all left because they are all sick of all the crap that is flung around here and dealing with it? In that respect, I am going to use this thread as an example. I think the reason the forums are this way is 50% the people around here acting like idiots and using this as a way to vent their own problems (always thnking of themselves) and 50% the mods for losing control in some situations or taking things too personally sometimes.

In regards to the threads that were silly and fun in the past, I think there is a big difference between them and the recent ones. First of all, I believe it was Maruk or someone else that came in and put a stop to that. It was fun while it lasted but as a company head, he saw it was causing too many problems (bandwidth and otherwise). You can't blame the mods on that one. Secondly, they were far less frequent because there were hardly any people on here. It was a more tight-knit group. Something we cannot have *here* again. It's just not possible and it is gone forever. Time to either take it somewhere else or deal with it.

[froggyluv 2136]

For those who want some self-deluded crash and burn grandiose banned-for-life exit i say "Bye Bye".

I had read these forums for a while before i joined mostly looking for OFP mods and what not. I remember the threads were full of long-running inside jokes and when I asked my first 'noob' question was happily ridiculed by long term members who seemed to take great pleasure at that. I almost said "F##K these guys the first day. I'm glad i didn't because I also found many cool people who were willing to help, one even sending me a huge mod-file by airmail twice because i didn't have high-speed yet (thanks Orlok!

Just as in life, school, gym, dojo your always going to find guys who think their the Sh#t because they've been their longer or whatever, always making jokes at someone else's expense. Why don't they just e-mail each other- because they need an audience. Then their are guys who really are 'The Sh#T' who help out, build tremendous mods for everyone to enjoy. Some of these guys have under 100 posts

I'll be here as long as the second group are...

[karantan 0]

Hm hm hm CrashDome ,,, When you'll get your first WL, and especially if you'll think you didn't deserved it, then you'll step down from your (moral) piedestal and join the 'plebs'.

Quote[/b] ],,,I've flamed, had my outbursts, heck.. even had a few deleted threads,,,

,,,I've been here for 6 years and never once did I ever get a WL,,,

But how it looks you've already deserved to loose the virginity in those past 6 years and to get your 'box' ,,, but you didn't.

[mattxr 9]

This Fourm is for LIFE!!   Untill I get Kids or start to Travel.   Or untill i get bored of BIS Games..

[crashdome 3]

Hm hm hm CrashDome ,,, When you'll get your first WL, and especially if you'll think you didn't deserved it, then you'll step down from your (moral) piedestal and join the 'plebs'.

Quote[/b] ],,,I've flamed, had my outbursts, heck.. even had a few deleted threads,,,

,,,I've been here for 6 years and never once did I ever get a WL,,,

But how it looks you've already deserved to loose the virginity in those past 6 years and to get your 'box' ,,, but you didn't.

I am going to hope it was because instead of fanning the flames, I tried to control them. If I am wrong, then I imagine I will see my first WL soon... but I am going to put my money on something with better odds.

[Edit] Out of all those stunts I pulled in the past which I talk about above, I have a message box full of me and the mods working things out peacefully. I cant say that is the difference between me and the others, but it is one possibility.

This is one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much. It is also why I stay far from the OT forum, and when I do venture there.. I stick to one or two threads at most. Sure it is a bit different lately, but for the most part there is people who need help and the people who give it. Those are the most important people on these boards and that is why I am still here - not because of the OT forum.

[Journeyman 0]

I got my first and only WL for posting a very favourable and well-meant comment in the ArmA photography thread! Why? ... Because I forgot to double check all the rules for each thread and failed to post a pic with it!! Yeah, that really did piss my off at the time!  

One thing you all have to remember though is that these Mods are only volunteers; they are not paid (well not to my knowledge! ) and have other more important things to do in life, so give them a bit of credit! I've done a lot of  'unpaid jobs' in recent times and they are nearly always thankless tasks!

As for the content of these forums well I guess they’ve kind of lost direction. We already have ArmA so we know what it’s like. And many like myself have simply put it to one side and decided to wait until it is properly finished! There are simply too many other things in life grabbing many peoples attention than an unfinished and buggy military simulator. No disrespect to BIS and all their hard work, but that I’m afraid is the bottom line ATM!

And yeah, I’m pretty certain that if Placebo was still here this thread would have been locked after the second post!  

[shinRaiden 0]

The story I got from various of the previously mentioned 'senior members' is that they were so fed up with what they perceived to be gross negligence on the part of the moderators, or anti-BIS/community behavior from those moderators, that they decided to take matters into their own hands, and attempt to fix things by flooding, spamming, or falling on their sword publicly. Obviously, the moderators can't condone that, and them posting things that got themselves banned is solely their own responsibility.

There's a very serious and malignant problem right now in the BIS forums with extremely self-centered individuals heaping abuse on BIS attempting to justify or satiate their own lusts. Giving these people any voice at all is destructive to the community as a whole and is distracting to BIS. If BIS pays attention to the haters, they will find something else to hate on. If they don't pay attention to them, they will just continue to spread their insatiable lusts to others.

This isn't an exercise in democracy, this is a crisis in lack of personal responsibility and human civility. The present moderator situation especially is a significant contributing factor. Comments made to me by others suggest that they (wrongly) felt that they had no other option than to troll, because they felt the moderators wouldn't give them the time of day - no matter who they are - to listen to their grievances.

So how to make things better :

First and foremost BIS needs a community manager. This is separate from PR duties, don't try to lump them together. The CM is responsible for communicating BIS's position and policy to the community, and is also responsible for guiding BIS in regards to issues and concerns in the community.

Second, BIS needs to disassociate themselves from divisive and unproductive community problems such as the BTS. It's highly inappropriate and ineffective to 'turn over' a tool like that to the community. A support tool like that intrinsically should be run and managed by BIS, not the community. The last thing anybody wants or needs is for the support system to be hijacked to be someone's private fiefdom.

Third, there needs to be a firmly entrenched policy banning discussion of BIS's military training products. The community is unwilling to discuss it civilly and productively, and so its presence here is inviting continued virtual rioting.

Fourth, there needs to be better communication between the moderators and the community, and the community needs to feel that the moderators have a consistent policy between them. Most of cases are not of belligerence, rather it's crankiness or posting while drunk, stoned, or genuine oversights. In an ideal world, a reasonable goal would be where most of the cases would be mutually resolved offline, with the individuals having reason to support the decisions, regardless of their opinions on the matter. This only works if they feel they can discuss it with any moderator, who will give them the time of day regardless of their background.

Fifth, the community needs to sit down and shut up with all their whining. I'm sick and tired of seeing page after page of duplicated me-too whining about how their bleeding-edge prototype video card and hacked untested drivers are 'having problems'. The more you spam about it, the LESS likely BIS is going to give anybody the time of day on it. Secondly, it is likewise ludicrous to castigate BIS for not delivering in one patch in a month the comparable effect of 3 years of constant patches to OFP. There is a search button, use it BEFORE posting otherwise you invite the wrath of the 'old timers', and you only serve to destroy the community. If you don't have anything productive to add to those spamfests, certainly don't go post-whoring with "yeah, I hate BIS too because they won't buy me an 8900 GTX lolkthx" like the rest of the cockroaches.

Lastly, I've made some warning comments previously about significant complications with developing content for ArmA. As you've discovered, it's not just a matter of needing new tools, in many cases it's needing new dev processes as well. Creating content that surpassed the OFP level of visual quality was relatively simple, doing so for ArmA is going to be extremely complicated. I've posted some numbers previously showing that creating maps will require data running into the dozens of gigabytes alone, and reports are that photoshop is extremely sluggish under that sort of heavy load.

Similarly for modeling, unless you have 3DSmax or Maya, AND have professional experience making multi-detail poly models, have an understanding of GPU optimized modeling, normal and specular maps, as well as shader programming understanding for writing rvmat files, it is again going to be extremely difficult to come close to the eyecandy level of what's in ArmA. There has been a great deal of whining and demanding about the tools, but the tools will not help you if you don't have the experience or process already.

[Sennacherib 0]

Quote[/b] ]Similarly for modeling, unless you have 3DSmax or Maya, AND have professional experience making multi-detail poly models, have an understanding of GPU optimized modeling, normal and specular maps, as well as shader programming understanding for writing rvmat files, it is again going to be extremely difficult to come close to the eyecandy level of what's in ArmA. There has been a great deal of whining and demanding about the tools, but the tools will not help you if you don't have the experience or process already.

amen I waited to see someone write that.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Well put shinraiden.  However, there are many with legitimate gripes.  These concerns could very well be drowned out by the "hater" noise.

Quote Tovarish:

"and some of us look for creative ways to earn the next WL, slowly comitting suicide by moderator."

After my Sprocket experience I REALLY tried this, and not slowly.  Yet because those concerns are totally ignored, so was I.  I calmed down when a refund was finally agreed to...funny thing is I got my "ding" for a minor nothing at the same time.

[Tovarish 0]

funny thing is I got my "ding" for a minor nothing at the same time.

Got the first ding for a wiseass remark no different than others I've made in the five year's I've been here. Soon as I saw I had one, I decided I didn't want to look like a n00b troublemaker, so I paired it up.

And no - I don't have delusions of grandeur causing me to aim to get banned, nor do I think I'm better than anyone because of my post count or my tenure - though I do consider myself to have been a constructive member of the OFP community.

I'm just going to continue being the same forum member I was when I started, albeit less active - I just have a good feeling that doing that will earn me "points" .

[ralphwiggum 6]

Too OT for OT.

closing.

I'll chime in.

Been here since Nov. 2001, but due to forum clean-up, joined Jan. 2002. I forgot when I became a moderator.  So I guess I fall into old-timer group.

The simplest way to put it is that things change. It's been 5 years since the forum was made into current system, and that is 2-3 generations in internet time. It is inevitable that some left and some just don't hang out much.

For me, I finally got a career going on after getting my master's degree, and that means I cannot spend more time moderating as I used to. I do check in at least 4-7 times per day and see how things are going. But the amount of time I spend has been cut short due to real life events and other things.

I've been reading a lot of forums, mostly gun forums, and the change that those forums are going through is just as same as what we are going through now. Old timers don't show up often as time goes on and new comers ask same damn question again.

Recently, a gun forum adopted a strict policy of no bigotry. This is a forum that had a lot of chest thumpers and chariborne commandos saying things like "nuke them from orbit" when talking about middle east affairs, and beleive that there are no good muslims. And they were not alone. Another gun forum decided to crack down on those comments about a year ago. This forum was way more ahead of them in terms of decency enforced. And that's what made some colorful people not show up frequently.

For a frequent discussion, having two sides help, and having both of them completely extreme in their toughts helps fule the discussion for better or for worse(usually the latter). When there is an equilibrium reached in terms of decency that's when things get boring. Just look at world history and how this place is going, Shortly after 9-11 and Operation Iraqi Freedom, things went quite heated. But theses days, when the conclusion can be made that it's an impasse or TBA screwed up without much doubt(for rational people), there isn't much to be debated. Just look at all those politics threads we had. They are not not on the front page. Those were the biggest threads in the forum.

As for the individuals that came and left OT section, I can remember some incidents where one person was banned for racist remarks, the other for homophobia(later reduced), another for posting useless threads that ate bandwidth. Now they are coloful people, but in seriousness, not much of substance. Maybe that's the problem. Having substance could lead to boredom.

As for the game community itself, the way I see it is that it is now a grown up market. In the late 90s, PC games were the thing to do. Consoles were ok but most of the sophisticated titles were in PC format. That was true until the market shifted to console market. So in that sense, it could be that we are now dealing with smaller group of people. When OFP came out, it was THE revolutionary game that was in its own class. So a lot of people would come here and try to push the limit of the engine. And it also was the time when technologies were developing by months, not years. So there was this natural vibrance of new and dynamic society.

I wonder how many people remember the day when O2 was delayed. Unfortunately, it fell on the birthday of a great mod maker, and boy was that a sight to see......Now that ARMA pretty much has everything that most want in there, maybe that could dampen the efforts of some creative members of the community. Now the codes are getting complicated, and that could drive-off some people.

There's also the problem of shrinking market. PC gaming is not like what it was before, and with not much drastic change in future, it would look like there are less to make people thrilled to new stuff.

There are a lot of people who want instant gratification, and they use annonimity of internet to spout their twisted minds and desires. And we have been dealing with them quite nicely and that would seem like we are evil sadistic mods. But anarchy is not as attaractive as it seems. This server is owned by a real company which hires real people. There are real life reasons why a forum has to be dealt in such way.

Edit: Tov - unfortunately you still cannot have member title of "Avril Lavigne Rules" since Assault[CAN] still won't release it.

[shinRaiden 0]

As a side note, I once received a small item in the mail when I was living with my parents. Mom asked "who's Ralph Wiggum?" "A, uh, business associate" or something to that effect.

Thanks again for putting up with us

[[aps]gnat 28]

But anarchy is not as attaractive as it seems. This server is owned by a real company which hires real people. There are real life reasons why a forum has to be dealt in such way.

So true.

I come here 1 or twice a day (and will until the BIS games drop from my life) to mostly talk technical (and look at the cool pics) about the game. I think this community is the best when its working together, but ever so often someone has to poke it.

I don't come here to read the "dribble & shit" or "community baiting" or the "my whine is the most important" type threads that seem to have popped up more often in the last 2-4 months.

I suspect theres some really bored OFP/ArmA players, who have decided they want to stay until ArmA evolves like OFP, but have nothing better to do at the moment but write shyt in THIS forum as a form of venting frustration.

I generally agree with what the mods are doing, in fact since Placebo left I think some ppl have got away with far more than they would have 12 months ago.

Keep up the great work guys  

[Rhodite 3]

Coming from a mod who is not a member of the "old guard" such as RalphWiggum, I can still vouch for a great attitude and approach that they have had and still do have. The transition when Placebo moved on was not easy as he did more work behind the scenes than most would be aware of, but credit to the guys and Shadow for picking up the Mantle.

Moding is never easy, what one person believes is acceptable is not perceived as such by others this of course is why we have rules on the forum. To ensure the lines are clear or as clear as they can be.

As has been already said we are all volunteers, we do not get paid, and most of us have full time jobs and even families to look after. So we are indeed busy, but feel our spare time is well invested in this community.

It does indeed seem many people are here to simply cause an argument, and as they are the noisy folk generally get the most attention (no doubt what they are seeking in the first place). Because of this, the perception that the forums are going down the toilet has occurred. As a mod in general we see most of the crap and have to deal with it. So ensuring we have a positive outlook is important. I have seen a great deal of threads of enormous value. Sadly the nasty threads get the press.. like anything in life.

These forums are a fantastic tool, people can use or abuse it. The rules are there as a clear guide. Break the rules and we have to enforce them. We do make mistakes, we are human, a simple PM and a polite msg will get a better response from us than a post with "WTF !!! Y U BOX ME!!! RRAGHH!"

Forum communities are a difficult animal to maintain and without sounding cheesy, we do need to work together to keep it a worthwhile place to visit.

[dm 9]

I'd have to agree with Shin's excellent (as usual) post.

I'd also have to agree with Ralph's sentiment that "things change" although in my opinion i think this change has been for the worse recently.

The most frustrating things to me are the appointment of new moderators, and the influx of "self-centered individuals heaping abuse on BIS attempting to justify or satiate their own lusts."

I can appreciate that the new moderators will have a hard time "integrating" into the boards which they were previously simply members of. It relates to the whole Army will transfer any Soldier ho recieves a Battlefield commission so as to avoid over-familiarity with the men thing, but thats obviously not feasable here. It does appear that, in MY OPINION, the new moderators are a bit "lock-happy" where entire threads suffer because of the malicious activities of a few select members. In MY OPINION a more careful moderation and judicious use of 24 and 48 hour post restrictions would soon end such problems, whilst still allowing the topic to be steered back on course and to remain open.

It also seems like, although it could be my skewed perception having originally joined after the first mods were well in place, that the new moderator team is much less "mature" so to speak. Rather than the old team which consisted of "worldly-wise" people like Denior and militarily-experienced people like Hellfish, the new team seems to be incresingly made up of "younguns" who dont quite seem to fit the role IN MY OPINION. I dunno, I just dont seem to be able to harbour the same respect for the new mod team as the old one (sorry folks...)

Couple with that the unfortunate influx of "self-centered individuals heaping abuse on BIS attempting to justify or satiate their own lusts" the new moderator team has a huge job on their hands - not only to instill a sense of respect and place with the "old-timers" but to also control the "undesireables" without appearing like lock/ban-happy "nazis". A tough job indeed...

There also appears to be an odd weighting to the ballence of moderation - god forbid you post even one image a few bytes over the limit - you'll be getting your post edited and warning levels applied. But people can freely troll for several pages before the thread is locked and no further action is taken - leaving said trolls free to go to another thread and to continue to troll without rebuttal. PERSONALLY, I think that more moderator time should be spent policing the trolls, and less moderator time should be spent checking the filesizes in the photography threads.

For those reasons, the BI forums are becoming a much less attractive place to spend time. Gone are the lengthy (and usually well informed) discussion threads of the past, and in are the "OMG I WANTZ NOW!!!11!" and the "Same question for the nine-billionth time" threads, which really makes the boards quite tedious...

[karantan 0]

We do make mistakes,,,

Everyone does, but you (the mods) do never addmit them, do you.

Quote[/b] ],,,we are human, a simple PM and a polite msg will get a better response from us than a post with "WTF !!! Y U BOX ME!!! RRAGHH!"

We are all humans. And I did that (send a PM) TO YOU when you gaved me that square I have, I didn't rant in my PM but yes I was angry how/why I get it (won't put it all out not to be called for a whiner or something), but you didn't even bother to answer e.g. you have ignore it, have you.

[Rhodite 3]

In reply and this will be my only public reply, you can take this to PM.

I did indeed miss your pm you now have a pm comming your way to explain.

Thankyou

[lwlooz 0]

I think "the change for the worse" is very subjective indeed.

The best decision the moderators made is to completely separate the editing part of this forum from the rest.

This very rest has never been a nice place to visit in the first place. Stating the different is a bit nostalgic.

I myself pity the new moderators since they have to moderate all the crap while having no authority of the "Better than anyone else" crowd in this community.

I have to say I do miss the proper political discussions tho,nowadays it just seems to be "You snobbish Europeans" vs "You dumb Yanks".

On a sidenote,I personally have to disagree with ShinRaiden that the BTS is such a bad thing even in its current stage, that is probably the most constructive tool to give BIS feedback we ever had. A lot better than BIS having to read countless "General" threads which contain more bollocks than usable feedback. Of course it would be better if BIS had their own bugtracker managed by them , but that is not going to happen , is it

[dm 9]

I think "the change for the worse" is very subjective indeed.

I would agree that it is, which is why I kept hammering on about "In my opinion" etc

The best decision the moderators made is to completely separate the editing part of this forum from the rest.

I would have to agree with you on that one. The new logical structure for the Editing sections is what should have been from the start.

This very rest has never been a nice place to visit in the first place. Stating the different is a bit nostalgic.

And also somewhat subjective too, don't you think

I myself pity the new moderators since they have to moderate all the crap while having no authority of the "Better than anyone else" crowd in this community.

I couldn't agree more. I know I've been guilty of it myself in the past (I like to think I've matured since then) but yes, a more judicious use of PR's would put paid to that problem.

I have to say I do miss the proper political discussions tho,nowadays it just seems to be "You snobbish Europeans" vs "You dumb Yanks".

I never got too involved with the political debates, but yes, I too miss the more "intellectual" activity we used to have on here.

Edit for formatting.

[JdB 151]

W0lle sent me a PM with (among others) the following point:

I mentioned in my previous post that the first thing you would see in a thread would be "48hr PR for [offense]", instead of what Placebo and others used to do in the past, to give a single warning in the topic once "Please stop spamming" for example.

W0lle told me that he does often send a PM to such people, but due to it's private nature what everyone would only see is "48hr PR", instead of the longer process that has taken place leading up to this punitive measure, including the more civilised approach to solving this issue, and the apperant lack of interest on the posters' part.

This is imo the greatest problems besides the trolling in (mostly) ArmA-related threads. Alot of moderating decisions that affect entire topics just don't get written down clearly enough, not making it clear well enough for all of the other members that visit the forum that such a posting behaviour isn't wanted.

The forum (and moderating team) needs more transparancy imo. Of course we don't need to know every twisted thing that goes on in a moderator's brain, but some more clarifications in topics before needing to resort to the second measure of locking and/or handing out PR/WLs would be nice.

The same partially goes for trolling, not enough measures are being taken against them, not clearly enough put, and as Deadmeat said, the topics often get locked when it would be much better to crack down on the people actually causing the moderator to close the topic. Right now the emphasis of the moderating team is imo wrongly directed on minor offenses/rather futile rules violations, when more focus should go to flamebaiting and trolling.

Moderators can't be instantly respected, you have to earn respect by showing respect, restraint, unbiased judgment etc. Post restrictions and Warning Levels don't establish authority, if anything, it would create fear and anger instead of "respect".