School shooting "phenomenom"

[baddo 0]

From cnn.com: Student arrested for essay's imaginary violence

Quote[/b] ]

April 27, 2007

CARY, Illinois (AP) -- A high school senior was arrested after writing that "it would be funny" to dream about opening fire in a building and having sex with the dead victims, authorities said.

Another passage in the essay advised his teacher at Cary-Grove High School: "don't be surprised on inspiring the first CG shooting," according to a criminal complaint filed this week.

Allen Lee, 18, faces two disorderly conduct charges over the creative-writing assignment, which he was given on Monday in English class at the northern Illinois school.

Students were told to "write whatever comes to your mind. Do not judge or censor what you are writing," according to a copy of the assignment.

According to the complaint, Lee's essay reads in part, "Blood, sex and booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s...t...a...b...puke. So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did."

Officials described the essay as disturbing and inappropriate.

Lee said he was just following the directions.

"In creative writing, you're told to exaggerate," Lee said. "It was supposed to be just junk. ... There definitely is violent content, but they're taking it out of context and making it something it isn't."

Lee was moved to an off-campus learning program, and the district was evaluating a punishment, schools spokesman Jeff Puma said.

"It wasn't just violent or foul language," Puma said. "It went beyond that."

The teenager's father, Albert Lee, has defended his son as a straight-A student who was just following instructions and contends the school overreacted. But he has also said he understands that the situation arose in the week after a Virginia Tech student gunned down 32 people before committing suicide.

Defense attorney Dane Loizzo said Allen Lee has never been disciplined in school and signed Marine enlistment papers last week.

A conviction could bring up to 30 days in jail and a maximum $1,500 fine.

[jman 0]

So you think the liberals in my country don't lie and use statistics incorrectly? With all of the posts you people have made in resposnse to my ban everything dangerous post you proved my point that banning things just because they can kill poeple is stupid. If guns should be banned why not everything else. We would all be safer. We wouldnt have to worry about anything. Think of all the people that could be saved.

[baddo 0]

From CBS News: Blood Spilled Over Man's Perfect Lawn

Quote[/b] ]

BATAVIA, Ohio, March 21, 2006

(CBS/AP) Irritated but calm, the homeowner called 911 and told the dispatcher that he had finally done something about the neighbor boy — the one, the man said into the phone, who had been harassing him for years.

"I just killed a kid," Charles Martin said, according to a recording of the Sunday afternoon call (audio) released by police in Union Township, near Batavia, about 20 miles east of Cincinnati.

"You just killed a kid?" the surprised 911 operator said.

"Yes, ma'am," the caller replied.

Martin, 66, is charged with murdering 15-year-old Larry Mugrage, who lived next door to the house where Martin kept a meticulous front lawn with grass that he could sometimes be seen measuring to the inch.

Police said crossing that lawn is what got Mugrage killed. Martin, who lived alone, told officers he'd had several disputes with neighbors about walking on his grass, but hadn't called police since 2003, Union Township police Lt. Scott Gaviglia said.

"I'm being harassed by him and his parents for five years and today I just blew it up," the caller says on the tape, before identifying himself as "Charles Martin."

In the 911 call, Martin, a retired Ford Motor Co. worker with no criminal record, allegedly told the dispatcher that Mugrage had been "making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up."

"I shot him with a (word deleted) .410 shotgun twice," the caller told the dispatcher.

"You shot him with a shotgun? Where is he?" the dispatcher asked.

"He's laying in his yard," the caller said.

Mugrage, who police said was hit in the chest, was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Martin appeared briefly in Batavia Municipal Court on Monday. A judge denied bond and set another hearing for Thursday.

Martin was being held Tuesday at the Clermont County jail, where officials declined to give him a message seeking comment and said he did not have an attorney of record.

The shooting stunned those in the residential neighborhood and students at Glen Este High School, where Mugrage was a freshman. Grief counselors were at the school Monday.

"I think there's a great deal of shock, for two reasons: because of the age of the victim and just how this occurred, killed over some grass," Gaviglia said.

Neighbors said Martin was quiet, often sitting out in front of his one-story home with its neat lawn, well-trimmed shrubbery and flag pole with U.S. and Navy flags flying. In his fenced backyard, he had several birdhouses and a shed painted like a small red barn with white trim.

Neighbor Joanne Ritchie, 46, said Mugrage was known as "a good kid," and that she always considered Martin to be friendly.

"The older gentleman was always riding his bike and tending to his yard," she said. "He would wave at kids and adults. He always had the perfect yard and he worked in it a lot."

Sean Fritts, 16, who also lived nearby, agreed that Martin's lawn was his pride and joy.

"He was real protective over his yard and mowed it a lot, and sometimes even measured the grass with a yardstick," Fritts said.

Still, Fritts said he wasn't aware of any disputes involving Martin.

"I never had any problems with him, and I don't know that anyone else did," he said.

It is so great to be able to protect your property with a gun!

[Ironsight 1]

It is so great to be able to protect your property with a gun!

What added value does this has to the discussion?

[baddo 0]

Well there is an example of how having a gun is not necessarily a good thing.

Maybe it is also an example of why many people think civilians should not be allowed to have so easy access to guns. A boy is shot because of a lawn. Extreme example, but still an example. The boy would not have been shot if the man would not have owned a gun. Instead, he would have maybe chased the boy with an axe, and the boy would have had much greater chances of survival.

[Dwarden 1124]

bit offtopic but sorta on topic about 'weaps'

-

i tell You story about one country and nation where guns are not allowed between people ...

it all started when this nation was angry about shooting incidents

and voted radical party who pushed up law about no weapons

now it was only arma and police / official authorities who got weapons ...

anyone who got gun w/o being part of these authorities gets auto-jailed or shot on spot ...

all was fine

except some heavy crimes when criminals used weapons they got from black market w/o problem

but after some years after removing all weapons between good citizens

all of sudden radical party declared dictatorship state

fellow citizens tried protest but they were jailed or vanished w/o trace

then citizens tried to overthrow gov by big demonstrations but police and army used weapons against them ...

so far i know that country is still dictatorship

-

i hope You got the "point" i tried to say  

[karantan 0]

The boy would not have been shot if the man would not have owned a gun. Instead, he would have maybe chased the boy with an axe, and the boy would have had much greater chances of survival.

Good one Baddo!  

[Ironsight 1]

The boy would not have been shot if the man would not have owned a gun. Instead, he would have maybe chased the boy with an axe, and the boy would have had much greater chances of survival.

Good one Baddo!

So you think dead kids are funny?

[sputnik monroe 102]

Bummer for the kid.

 I hate crazy people who murder people, however I'm sure if he didn't have a gun he would of killed him another way as this was obviously a spirit of the moment type killing. Probably would of stabbed him or something.

 Lunatics snap and kill people all the time in very creative ways.

 

Quote[/b] ]At a U.S. Navy hospital not long ago a 31-year-old chief petty officer suddenly broke off a casual conversation with a nine-year-old girl, grabbed the child by the throat, choked her and held her under water in a nearby tub until she was dead. Charged with murder, he at first denied the crime with such apparent sincerity that he fooled a lie detector. Later, remorseful, he confessed, but insisted that he could not remember the beginning of the attack, had just "suddenly discovered himself" strangling the girl.

 Rest of the story http://www.time.com/time....googlep

Quote[/b] ]Scott Werner was accused of, and admitted to, stabbing Edith Werner 13 times with a serrated survival knife after a heated argument in the basement of their West Deer home on the morning of June 24, 2004. He testified Wednesday to taking his then-9-year-old daughter Marisa, who was sleeping upstairs at the time of the death, to Clarion County before planning to kill himself that night. He was arrested after West Deer police issued an Amber Alert for the missing child.

Rest of the story

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_360936.html

Quote[/b] ]A German man was battered to death with a beer bottle on Saturday after his mobile phone rang repeatedly, annoying bystanders in a Hamburg beer garden.

Rest of the story

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/08/10/man_beaten_to_death/

Quote[/b] ]A south Auckland couple beat the mother's three-year-old son with several objects including a baseball bat for continually soiling his pants and then didn't seek medical help for fear they would be implicated, a High Court trial was told.

rest of the story

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4035977a10.html

Quote[/b] ]A 19-year-old woman was beaten to death with a hammer and her bedroom was set on fire with her in it early Saturday morning, police said.

Quote[/b] ]Investigators are not sure what sparked the violence. “There was something that set him off. We just don’t know what that is yet,†Roberts said.

The Rest of the story

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770422005

Quote[/b] ] The victim was walking near the Blue Hill Avenue Missionary Baptist Church when he was attacked by more than one person. Police were called to the stabbingabout 7:35 p.m. and the victim, whose name was not released, was taken to Boston Medical Center where he succumbed to his injuries, police said. It was the city’s 18th murder of the year.

The rest of the story

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=196914

 I can go on and on and on. But I wont because now I'm depressed after reading about people flipping out for no reason and stabbing, beating, or strangeling people to death for no apparent reason.

 If I owned a firearm I don't think I should have to surrender it becaues some one else used one in a crime. How about you punish the guy who commited the crime instead?

 I'm not afraid of guns, I'm afraid of ass holes and crazy people.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]The boy would not have been shot if the man would not have owned a gun.

 Duh,

 He still would have been attacked and likely killed however.

Quote[/b] ]Instead, he would have maybe chased the boy with an axe, and the boy would have had much greater chances of survival.[/

 Depends, how do you know it would not have been easier to kill him with an axe? Personally in my own experience I trust my ability to slay a man with an axe more than I trust my ability to hit a target by shooting.

*Edit*

Man that sounds crazy, what I mean is if I was to go insane and want to kill some one, well I'm not a good shot I'd do better with an axe or knife or perhaps a blunt heavy object. Come on it's a hypothetical people.

[Rustman 0]

The boy would not have been shot if the man would not have owned a gun. Instead, he would have maybe chased the boy with an axe, and the boy would have had much greater chances of survival.

Good one Baddo!

So you think dead kids are funny?

Hilarious...I'm giggling just thinking about it..oh wait..no I'm not. What is funny, however, is using a single extreme incident to champion an opinion and then declaring the stance unassailable on account of the victim's age. "If you are against banning guns then you must support the killing of children." Na...doesn't work that way.

as far as my opinion goes, I am a gun owner, both handguns and rifles. I am against any banning of firearms. To sacrifice rights in the name of safety flies in the face of every value country was founded on. I'd rather be less safe and self-reliant , than "safe" and dependent on someone else to provide me with protection.

[baddo 0]

No that's not what I said. We have a serious problem in this thread. I guess both sides are reading something from others' posts that just wasn't written into them.

The example of the boy killed because of walking on the man's lawn: the man had a shotgun. On the moment when he pulled the trigger it was all over. Even if he could have had a second chance of thinking what he is going to do, it was over after he pulled the trigger. If you have a beer bottle, axe, knife, or any other object that requires a lot more work to kill someone with, then you also have more time to consider what you are doing. That is my reasoning in the "boy killed" example. Sorry if I wrote the message so that this intention isn't clear.

To me it is quite obvious, if you have a loaded gun you just pull the trigger and that's it. If you have to use some "blunt object" to beat someone to death, it's going to get a lot more time and energy to do it, thus your conscience has more time to stop you. Also the victim has much better chance to get away, as the victim can start running and won't have to fear of a bullet hitting into the back of the head (yes, a beer bottle will hurt too).

With a beer bottle you maybe hit twice in the head of someone, then remorse and stop doing it. If you pulled a trigger then having remorse after a couple of seconds won't help.

[karantan 0]

The boy would not have been shot if the man would not have owned a gun. Instead, he would have maybe chased the boy with an axe, and the boy would have had much greater chances of survival.

Good one Baddo!  

So you think dead kids are funny?

No, it's just the way how is (literally) putted together and how it can be/is readed. Some people have well developed sense of humor, and some haven't. If I would laugh on a dead kids then I could do nothing but laugh, tons of kids get beaten, stabbed, shot every day, mostly between themselves (disputes, gangs ... ).

Otherwise this murder is just sort of 'unusual' case taken out from the statistic, and I don't even think it's a some sort of an indicator, or a proove, or an argument for anything.

@Baddo: you have to take a gun, to load it, to target the victim, to squieze the trigger ,,, plenty of time to consider what you are doing, don't you think? And then to feel a remorse and all that ,,, Don't judge the people, especially such kind of people, by your reasoning, a wrong thing to do.  

[jman 0]

25 years murder free

In the town of Kennesaw, Ga everyone who is old enough and can pass a background check is required to have a gun. In 25 years crime has decressed and there was no wild west shootouts or bullets flying everywhere from negligent discharges.

[baddo 0]

@Baddo: you have to take a gun, to load it, to target the victim, to squieze the trigger ,,, plenty of time to consider what you are doing, don't you think? And then to feel a remorse and all that ,,, Don't judge the people, especially such kind of people, by your reasoning, a wrong thing to do.

If people don't agree that it is both easier and faster to kill people with a firearm than with bottles, knives, axes... then I think this conversation really is completely useless.

[karantan 0]

If people don't agree that it is both easier and faster to kill people with a firearm than with bottles, knives, axes... then I think this conversation really is completely useless.

No, I don't agree (a person can be easily and quickly and swiftly killed with many things, not just with a firearms, but the firearms are the most 'suitable' for it), and you can't do much about it, not with such an arguments and such (un)tolerance. You have your point of view on the problem, I have mine, understand and leave it like that, nothing particulary wise not from me nor from you can be done about it.

[AgentJonathan 0]

<span style='color:navy'>Here is my point of view</span>

The poor kids that died are infact, dead; therefore, political arguments won't raise the dead, or send Cho to hell.

Technically, sharp blades are more dangerous than most guns. if you go stab someones gut, they will not live, but if you shoot someone with a Glock 19, from 300 feet away, you might live.

Don't get me wrong, Cho is horrible, and i feel bad for the students who have died, but political complaining, and sniping will not effect anything but your mood.

[AgentJonathan 0]

I think that if guns were permitted to everyone, alot more people would have lived through that crap!

One man/woman, would rise and stop the killer. If everyone had a gun, few would have died...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I think that if guns were permitted to everyone, alot more people would have lived through that crap!

One man/woman, would rise and stop the killer. If everyone had a gun, few would have died...

How many people have their guns with them at class anyway? These young people were sitting under lecture while getting shot.

Unless of course you mean that people should bring the following to class:

Computer, pencil, paper, gun.

!?

I'm still tired of these weird arguments you pro-gun people are sending out.

For some reason you all fail to see the big picture, and all go down to small examples.

The most ridiculous must be the fellar who finds 5 examples how people can kill with other means than a gun.

Wow - big surprise for us all... But you still fail to see the big picture and the points we are making. I'm not gonna repeat myself (and others), so please re-read the past 8 pages, and consider your future arguments.

[Journeyman 0]

Technically, sharp blades are more dangerous than most guns. if you go stab someones gut, they will not live, but if you shoot someone with a Glock 19, from 300 feet away, you might live.

Well of course! .... That’s why all the armies and law enforcement agencies of the world are reverting to knives!  

FFS what is going on in peoples minds when they try to defend the gun as being LESS lethal than a knife or any other weapon?  

You compare the use of a knife at close quarters with the use of a gun at 300 feet. Well-done mate! Now go back to school and learn where you went wrong there!  

[Rustman 0]

I think that if guns were permitted to everyone, alot more people would have lived through that crap!

One man/woman, would rise and stop the killer. If everyone had a gun, few would have died...

How many people have their guns with them at class anyway? These young people were sitting under lecture while getting shot.

Unless of course you mean that people should bring the following to class:

Computer, pencil, paper, gun.

!?

I'm still tired of these weird arguments you pro-gun people are sending out.

For some reason you all fail to see the big picture, and all go down to small examples.

The most ridiculous must be the fellar who finds 5 examples how people can kill with other means than a gun.

Wow - big surprise for us all... But you still fail to see the big picture and the points we are making. I'm not gonna repeat myself (and others), so please re-read the past 8 pages, and consider your future arguments.

Same argument can be made by the anti-gun crown...it all comes down to singular events. "Dude flips out; shoots teenager for crossing lawn!" OMG1 Ban teh guns!

You aren't seeing the bigger picture from our perspective either. There isn't a single one of us that argues that everyone should have a gun..our argument is that you don't have the right to tell me I can't have one. It all breaks down to a single question..is my right to be self-reliant and provide for my own protection more important than your right to feel comfortable? I say it is; you say it is not. Simple as that.

[karantan 0]

I say it is; you say it is not.  Simple as that.

Yeah, but what's kinda weird and maybe simptomatical in this debate is that the against-guns dudes (the pacifists ??) seems to be more aggresive and less tolerant and democratical if you want than a pro-guns dudes.

And I am not a pro-guns dude. Nor against-guns dude ...

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]The most ridiculous must be the fellar who finds 5 examples how people can kill with other means than a gun.

 You missed the point again, like you always do. The point was that the kid was doomed from the start. The old loon snapped and was going to assault to kill him. He did not kill the kid because he had a gun, he killed the kid because he was crazy. Taking the gun out of the story would only of changed the impliment with which the kid was killed.

 Your property confiscation scheme would not have changed the end out come at all. It only would have changed the tool used to achieve the out come.

Quote[/b] ]is my right to be self-reliant and provide for my own protection more important than your right to feel comfortable?  I say it is; you say it is not.  Simple as that.

 Coult not of said it better my self. Discussion closed.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I say it is; you say it is not. Simple as that.

Yeah, but what's kinda weird and maybe simptomatical in this debate is that the against-guns dudes (the pacifists ??) seems to be more aggresive and less tolerant and democratical if you want than a pro-guns dudes.

And I am not a pro-guns dude. Nor against-guns dude ...

That is rather logical, as the against-gun people is not defending the law, but rather tries to change the law.

[quoute]There isn't a single one of us that argues that everyone should have a gun

Well - some of your arguments is that everyone should have a gun, to prevent these massmurders that happends every so often in America.

Quote[/b] ]is my right to be self-reliant and provide for my own protection more important than your right to feel comfortable? I say it is; you say it is not. Simple as that.

Exactly, it is as simple as that - but that is rather the topic of the discussion and doesn't really come up with any answer, does it?

Quote[/b] ]You missed the point again, like you always do. The point was that the kid was doomed from the start. The old loon snapped and was going to assault to kill him. He did not kill the kid because he had a gun, he killed the kid because he was crazy. Taking the gun out of the story would only of changed the impliment with which the kid was killed.

Perhaps it wouldn't have changed the outcome - but it is still one very specific situation.

What the against-gun people is concerned about is, that if people wear guns the whole time, it is somewhat much easier to kill a person after being robbed, called names after, teased etc. - or in a situation where it simply snaps for a persons mind. It happends from time to time.

Btw. If a knife is so effective in killing, why not accuire one of those instead of a gun? It seems that the gun-owners is in a disadvantage against knifes according to some debaters inhere.

[AgentJonathan 0]

Lesson Learned: 1 Crazy Korean man with 2 guns = BAAD things...

In all likelyhood, he is (was) an immature baby that didn't understand that people WERE NOT out to get him.

Quote[/b] ]Your Mercedes weren't enough, you brats!

Your Golden Necklaces weren't enough, you snobs!

Your Trust Fund wasn't enough!

Ect...

BTW: He sounds kinda like Napolean Dynamite.