NEW GAMETYPE

[Tom_Anger 0]

I'm trying to go off what I recall from Joint Operations Typhoon Rising where they had a gametype called Advance & Secure.  It is a little similar to Capture & Hold, but it kept the battle focussed usually on 1 to 2 bases at a time.  Please review my explanation because I am coding this at the moment and am wondering if it is going to be worth the time.

The concept is simple, but the coding is complex but manageable so as I get closer to the final product I will know more.

I am trying to see if this method for gameplay should be approved in the ArmA community (basically your thoughts) and do we call it C&H or some other gametype.  Here is a breakdown of how it is played out.  

Lets keep the bases down to 5 for the sake of argument.

PRELIMINARY SETUP

Each base carries the names Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, and Echo.  At the beginning of the mission BLUFOR owns Alpha and Bravo as well as their team default spawn.  OPFOR owns Delta and Echo as well as their team default spawn.  The best vehicle supplies are at the default spawn and limitted supplies at the satelite bases and teams can spawn at any of their owned bases.

All players and vehicles can respawn.

INITIAL FIGHTING

The only base on the map that has a circle showing is Charlie (typically centered on the map for balancing reasons) which in this case would have a neutral color.  When the battle begins this is where both teams head to in order to claim it as theirs.  Both teams can spawn at any of their "owned bases" so some may use helis from their default or choose to spawn at the others which may be closer to the neutral base, but limitted with weapons or vehicles.

TAKING A BASE - in this case the 1st base being Charlie.

To own Charlie you must get more of your team in the primary zone for 60 seconds (or we determine what makes sense) then reach the central location (Which should be a Flag) to trigger the ownership to your team.  If you reach the central location before the time limit - nothing changes.  Only when the timer has expired is when you can take the base.  Each base is taken this way.  All done with triggers.  I believe some C&H maps are designed with this type of base ownership.

You can appreciate that securing a zone for 60 seconds means you must win a firefight battle for 60 seconds keeping your team as the dominant team then move to the central location with caution to own the base.  What this also means is although you may be on the losing end you can still camp out focusing on the flag to try and take a player out as they make their way to it.  Snipers would have a real purpose on open areas.

WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THE NEUTRAL BASE IS OWNED

Lets consider that BLUFOR has just taken Charlie -  at this point Charlie shows a colored circle owned by BLUFOR as well as a US flag - and now that this occured the next base in line becomes available which shows as a base to be taken.  The base that opens up is the next in line as we head to the enemy (Delta).  From this point forward there will be 2 bases opened at all times and the battle becomes a tug of war until 1 team owns all 5 bases.

So if BLUFOR now takes Delta from OPFOR, Charlie's circle goes away and now Delta shows as BLUFOR ownership and Echo opens up.  

If OPFOR is able to defeat and push back BLUFOR their bases will slowly not show on the map and the bases shift the other way.

That is basically it in a nutshell.  If you want to make it long lasting you could have more bases and have 3 neutral zones all close to each other and before the enemy bases are opened up a team must own all 3 neutral zones.  That is where it gets real fun.

I have begun coding this and want to know what kind of discussions can take place.  Since I am doing it with triggers and using template names like PSP_A, PSP_B, etc any other alternative bases (new missions) would be able to be created very easy and hopefully people can take and make their own versions.

Thoughts on this?  I am hoping to get something working soon, but the moving of markers based on triggers can get a bit tough to track so I am taking it slow.  Real hairy getting it to work so that is why I am feeling out the community...

[whisper 0]

KAL from [nT] clan already did this kind of maps. Long time I didn't play them, though. Search for their server in the game server list, you can download KAL's missions there.

I'm working myself on a rather similar system, but the goal is to get the final ennemy main base (not necesserarily all bases), and there are multiple possible paths between both side's main bases (2, 3 or 4 path, represented by links between the bases in the area), so that the fight is not a simple head-on engagement with repetitive movements used, etc...

I also changed the base taking process, I use a flag that must be hold inside the area for a certain time by the ennemy for him to take the base.

And I added independant spawn points that can be easily taken independantly of the main bases ownership and links.

This way, I can mix fight environnements simply by the distance between base spawns, independant spawns, and bases flags/hold area, and by the amount of buildings and such around, to vary from CTF-style CQB fight (2 spawns and the flag hold area in the middle, in heavy urban environnement, for example) to open field vehicle based engagement. And the fights are concentrated around active bases rather then spread around everywhere like we see in BF-style and Berzerk maps, which kind of destroys the "mass fight" effect given by players number, without having to reduce the fight area

All this is working, still alpha stage, but working.

Now I want to add a dynamic squad management system, and the equipement/vehicle management system. After that, I think I'll be able to release some beta stuff for testing

[sirex 0]

isn't this a massivly long way of writing "tug-of-war" ?

project reality pretty much works like this, and yea its great. :-)

[Tom_Anger 0]

I believe it is quite similar. Many people who just got the game and have no OFP experience are overwhelmed. Not too many people enjoy running around to an emtpy base sit there an secure it then move to another and continue with very little interaction until a few minutes goes by only to find that you finally meet. New players haven't grasped the Capture & Hold. A base was not designed to have 2 or 3 players secure it and move from there. This game was designed to see good wholesome battles fought at all bases more consistently.

If you point players in a direction to fight then direct them from there the game becomes more structured and for many, that is how you increase the fun factor in playing a game such as ArmA that has tons of things you can do.

[Bob.Moore 0]

Joint Operations i used to play the expansion pack it was amzing!

[Tom_Anger 0]

So then you know why the Orange Bowl and other AAS dedicated servers seemed to have had hundreds on regularly. There was also a tank battle server that did well for a while. The gameplay was a bit arcade-like, but the gametype AAS was very well structured.

I am anticipating new folks hitting ArmA and I would not want them turned off with too much going on with some of the Team Maps that are hosted. Get 3 large fun long lasting maps on and let them ride for a month then rotate to 3 others. Something like that anyway, lol.

[majbilko16aab 0]

Hi Tom,

I totally agree with the AAS concept for Arma.It worked very well in JO and concentrates the fighting in one or two places.I think Arma would benefit from this and im sure people who have played JO would agree.Once people got used to it i think the servers would be packed all the time...

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

tom anger for president!

[HellToupee 0]

what i really liked was attack and defend fromthe deltaforce 2 days , imo it is important to focus the action, the joint ops guys understood it, where as unfocused like bf series leads to just running around all over the place with no real goal because its no fun assaulting an enemy area only to find theres no one around.

[Tom_Anger 0]

Other than folks who frequent these forums, I know of a community of players who just bought this game or are in the process and the simplistic yet tactical AAS gametype is what they are interested in. A&D is also nice and I think city A&D battles may also mix it up. Like protect the president with limited weapons on the attackers, etc. I am focussed on AAS at the moment. Maybe in a month an event can start up for AAS and maybe a couple of A&D servers. We'll see.

Hammering away at the coding part - getting there. 16aab folks are also in the process of something so stay tuned.

[ANTH 0]

I have played similar maps like this before nice concepts and the more maps the better I say. Yours sounds very nice how many players are you planning on to play this map as in slots?

If you could submit the map to our site once you have finished pls so I can upload it to our server that would be great!

Submit map link

[Tom_Anger 0]

64 players are the goal since most squads can afford that in my opinion. For Joint Operations we had some weekend long events where 3 neutral zones were extremely large so taking them and secuing to move on to the enemy bases were not easy. It was a tug of war for 2-3 days until someone won. And at that with the proper PR'ing we had UK and US working together. A webpage was created explaining the event.

For ArmA the same would have to occur and with a webpage it would explain the gametype and how to win. At the moment I am making it so that when more of 1 team gets in the primary zone that circle changes color to their color. That way if you are watching the map you will see what zone is under attack. If you can get the same # of your team in that zone the base becomes once again neutralized and the color goes back to its neutral state.

Having said that, this opens up a nice role for a commander to watch the map and command his/her troops to specific areas. I am still working on this (all done with triggers at the moment) and am having minor issues but maybe soon I will get a sample video. Once the concept is done I will have a template available. I believe 16aab is also working on this so as we converge this idea we hope to get a template out so that people can just start a map and merge this onto theirs and move the base/zones where they want and enjoy this awesome gametype.

I will post here and there because I want to make sure it is designed in such a way that the community will accept it.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Hope to have the first fully functioning prototype this week sometime Tom.

[Hostilian 11]

Just a thought. You could have variable 'capture times' depending on how many adjacent bases you have under your control.. Maybe because the supply lines are shorter - whatever.

eg

Start bases

1-opfor 2-neutral 3-neutral 4-neutral 5-blufor

For opfor to take base 2 - 1 min, base 3 - 2 mins, base 4 - 3 mins and base 5-bluforbase 4 mins. (Blufor times is the same in reverse)

UNLESS they have a forward base closer to the one they are trying to capture.

eg.

current bases under control...

1-opfor 2-opfor 3-opfor 4-neutral 5-blufor

here it would take opfor only 1 minute to capture base 4 (as they have the preceding adjacent base) and 2 minutes to capture the blufor base.

Times etc are up for discussion. However, the concept sounds good.

Cheers

#Cakes

[Tom_Anger 0]

Different concepts are always nice. At the moment I want to be consistent for this method which I know is very successful and popular for large scale fighting. A simple Survival Guide will be written to explain the game and we will gather squads and server lists who host this and go from there.

CTI is always nice as an alternative, but this gametype in my opinion will do well. You can even take it to another step for Team Deathmatch, however, I am not all that interested in that gametype. As for the player slots - the more teh better if servers can hold them. I am envisioning aup to 150 players if a server is out there. For now low 64-90. We are starting now and hope to have it tested soon. 16aab has something somewhat working and my setup has some issues so I may be posting in the scripting forums.

We will compare notes and get it out to the community.

[JIN 0]

it would be more posible to have new playstyles if u have

infantry classes

and with this i dnt mean only  medic..machinegunner..sharpshooter..and rifleman

but more like

-MEDIC :u know what it is

-GENIE TROOPER : building repair and destructing troops

-RECON TROOPS : conected with GPS system hmm ye not only available in the army but also in public cars  somehow the new compass of the millenium

-infiltrators : known as the known spy expert in hacking these days...can disguised in enemy gear u know its real like the KGB and CIA has many of them..

-and then  the  regular troops

each troops  with there weapons they are able to fit with

like  the recon cant have  a lot   to shoot like hes  has a whole gps systtem on the back  + a screen

thats what  makes the different in classes why  cant they all use same weapons  well its cuz they cant  carry all the stuff some carry more then others so they have to  smaller or different weapon

army isnt  just killing  sometimes  they need to fix u mentaly,  physicaly , structurly and even show u the way to go

well now about game styles

if u can make that within the currents squads

new game modes  would become  more easyer to create

like objective  based missions  with each class his functions

(like in the arma  woah isnt that why u bought ArmA)

not just capture or hold the flag

but destroy  or repair the bridge as objective one exiting huh then we go to objective 2 and hack a  comp terminal (or defend) for a secret location of a certain prisoned  vip working for the enemy lines like einstein with his nukes...and then  go to that base and  escort the  prisoned vip player based( that had to wait all the time in his lab to be saved) in his lab working with dirty rats..wanting to be saved (rats can be  AI)(vip death mission failed for both sides or make it time based with checkpoint bonus time when something succed or failled depending the situation)

its all posible with notepad and html and then turn in to .pbo

that mi friend would  be  closer to the kind of  gamemode thats these days  are running

and is also more realistic combat style then CTF or other game modes they are more training based in the army or in the paintball  hall

"realistic"  isnt that why u bought ArmA for

[JIN 0]

another thing that would be realistic is teamdeathmatch with the us troops and plenty of ammo and the russian troops with 1 on 2 troops just 1 bullet and see who would win

lol can be made on ctf eventually

but realistic for sure

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

I am envisioning aup to 150 players if a server is out there. For now low 64-90. We are starting now and hope to have it tested soon. 16aab has something somewhat working and my setup has some issues so I may be posting in the scripting forums.

Any idea how massive a server you're talking about to support that many players?

For example, I have a dual Xeon 2.5 GHz CPU with 4 GB of RAM just waiting for the Linux server code to be released. Unfortunately, I'm constrained to just 10 Mb/s half duplex for my network connection. What can I say? I'm there on my ISP's good graces. It's not costing me anything to have it colocated in their spaces, though.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

The first set of maps are being developed with up to 90ish player slots to see how well its going to run.

At the moment were looking at 3 different standard sizes for AAS, including a 40 player infantry only version for some close in-your-face action.

Still fine tuning the Capture zones, and developing a new Vehicle respawn script to suit a permanent game mode server. ( you can forget having fresh tanks every 5 min, its not going to happen that way )

[sirex 0]

how does that respawn script work ? -- maybe make a tank eliable to respawn when a tank on the other team is killed. -- gives you an objective and a bonus to take out key units.

although it might get very one sided once a team gets the upper hand.

hmmm.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

It will get one sidded if a particular side isnt on the ball and wastes the kit they have.

Put it this way if a particular vehicle is cruicial to your teams abillity to fight, use it wisely might have a bit of a wait before its available again. These AAS maps ( certainly the Ones with Vehicles ) will definately need teamwork for your team to win, which is why Engineering vehicles are provided ( fix it rather than destroy it ). Charging into battle, with all your gear may win you the next zone, but if all your gear is lost in that first assault, your fight will become a lot harder while you hang on by the skin of your teeth untill your Gear resupply starts filtering through.

Its not a case that a map will become unwinable in that situation, you can still win without vehicles of any kind, youll just have to think about how to do it.

[chipper 0]

Hehe JO was mad fun.

I think this gametype is great.

[C2A.Jackal 0]

An Advance and Secure game mode such as the one found in Joint Operations would be welcomed by my clan mates and I. It truley is an awesome game mode and can result in focused and intense combat for prolonged periods. Great stuff!

If there is anything C2A can do to help test any proposed modes along these lines, we would be more than happy to oblige!

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Gents, first small & medium maps are uploaded to a public server for stress testing of the code.

The 44 player maps are infantry only, 3 capture zones.

The 92 player maps have limited vehicles ( respawn time depends on vehicle class ), still have 3 capture zones, but further apart.

Read the notes in the Briefing screen to get a clear idea of the spawn times and vehicle restrictions.

Only 3 maps on the server so far, but I'll be adding more over the next few days.

Server name:- 16AAB AAS Maps

If the code on these is stable, the 7 zone ( with capturable spawns ) will be worked on for large scale wide area battles.

feedback below, or by PM please with any erors you find.

[2Lt High-16AAB- 0]

The AAS maps that have been develeped are great fun, just need a worthy team to try them out with us.....

i.e. battle it out with us guys on an AAS map just for fun to see how well these maps are & also give us all the fun back in this (for now dreary ArmA world)

Soo......... waddya say guys?