ARMA needs squad system

[CanisDEK 1]

ARMA is a tactical shooter. Yet there are no tactics on pub servers. It's mostly free for all team DM in a realistic setting. The tactical gameplay fails.

ARMA needs a squad system with benefits similar to BF2.

BF2 Project Reality MOD, has incredible tight team work on public servers because of this system.

Developers please take a look at Project Reality MOD for BF2 and consider adding something similar to their system. It will make playing on very big maps possible and it will improve gameplay a lot.

[smellyjelly 0]

Armed Assault sort of does have a squad system in multiplayer, doesn't it? In the list of characters, aren't each squad seperated by an extra space? I don't play multiplayer much, so I wouldn't really know.

I think we should have a system like this when chosing our character:

On the top there will be a horizontal row of all the squads, and when you click one it would branch out and show each character, and the users name if they are being played.

Then on the left of that list we could have an lone wolf icon, which would serve practicly the same as the others.

Just so you know, it's late and I may wake up hating this idea. But at the moment it seems simple, but effective.

[CanisDEK 1]

Hmmm I am talking about a squad system that actually adds to gameplay and influences gameplay.

Try BF2 Project Reality a few hours (careful though, it's not as easy as vanilla BF 2, but a really impressive mod).

[messiahua 0]

I think it is not a problem to implement such system via scripts and in-game menus.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hmmm I am talking about a squad system that actually adds to gameplay and influences gameplay.

Try BF2 Project Reality a few hours (careful though, it's not as easy as vanilla BF 2, but a really impressive mod).

Can you just describe it? I got no interest in installing BF2 just to check out a mod.

[whisper 0]

I think it is not a problem to implement such system via scripts and in-game menus.

ditto. This could be included in MP maps by mission makers.

[deevius 0]

I agree that there is not enough encouragement to work as a team. And working as a team is the only way things get done effectively.

i have not being enjoying ArmA online at all lately. A few exciting moments, but lots of tking, lack of teamwork and annoying bugs are ruining the experience.

[Tom_Anger 0]

What I have witnessed thus far is with some coops, players join only to find themselves in the middle of a bunch of objectives and not too many people know what they are doing so they wander around killing whatever they can and that can mean their own team.

For Multiplayer it is similar, but that all depends on what the mission was designed for. That is where time, testing, and feedback are huge.

I see some coops with multiple objectives designed for 10 or more players flopping bad even though the overall idea is decent. The majority of players don't have the time to sit and wander around for 2 hours trying to clear a couple of towns. They get a bit bored and leave discouraged. On those coops that you are intrigued about, I say download them and run them on your own just to get familiar with them then try to get with some folks and make something happen.

On the same note, I say it wouldn't necesserily be bad to tone down the coops a bit to less objectives and focus more on true realism on them with special effects if the mission designer can do that. A coop doesn't need 400 enemy soldiers scattered around with various things to do. Players are players and will get confused then leave. Clearing roadblocks and small towns would be fun. Even just getting to a recon spot on foot. More urban and laid back. Easy to figure out. That's just my take on it. I dislike coop, but I have witnessed some fun and some not so fun sessions as others. Kudos to all coop makers that make things happen for this game.

For multiplayer (which is my bread and butter) it is slowly picking up so I wouldn't frett much. I could give you a couple of squad sites that I know you would enjoy hanging with (adult experienced squads who play to have a good time as well as to learn and apply), but this isn't a thread to advertise so PM me and I will throw some sites with Teamspeak info out to you. I am not bored or have anything to say in dislike on this game because there are groups that make things happen.

Later....

[dr_eyeball 16]

Yeah I've been working on a script for a Team Status Dialog which relates to the problem of squad management. It's a partial solution to this overall issue. It allows you to create squads and to take over AI team leader/commader roles. I got sick of joing missions with 60 separate team leaders and no team work. But it's currently limited to missions which include it.

As for missions, it would be very nice to see a Project Reality mission/template in place.

I think some of the team work could be achieved by limiting abilities.

Eg:

1) forcing limited roles in game making players experts in their role/field only. eg: explosives/AT/AA/pilots/armour crew

2) Also limiting Actions, like repair or <some technical objective> to roles, like engineers, explosives experts, etc.

[december 0]

Check out Evolution on Bis forum

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=60633

This mission allows you to form your own team in the mission and pick your own objectives.

You don't have to be stuck with players who don't want to play as a team, you can just let them go off shooting what they want and let you get on with some nice tactical game play.

It's a nice solution for public servers.

[Heatseeker 0]

Everything you need is already in there.

If the players dont want to get the best out of this game, dont know how or care about no system is going to change that.

You can easily split you squad in fireteams and tell them what to do or where to go.

If a player doesnt have time and patience to play a lenghty coop session he should play DM/CTF instead, if he gets bored playing coop to a point he feels like he must TK his squad he should <s>be thrown into a cage full of horny gorillas</s> play DM/CTF instead.

I like veteran mode for:

a) Extra imersion/realism.

b) Clean display.

c) Extra challenge in gameplay (navigation, weapons handling).

I dont need no artificial squad system to make it easy on the noobs/idiots, they wont care anyway.

[Dallas 9]

The lack of teamwork never ceases to amaze me, knowing that teamwork is the key to any map/mission.

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

Everything you need is already in there.

If the players dont want to get the best out of this game, dont know how or care about no system is going to change that.

You can easily split you squad in fireteams and tell them what to do or where to go.

If a player doesnt have time and patience to play a lenghty coop session he should play DM/CTF instead, if he gets bored playing coop to a point he feels like he must TK his squad he should <s>be thrown into a cage full of horny gorillas</s> play DM/CTF instead.

I like veteran mode for:

a) Extra imersion/realism.

b) Clean display.

c) Extra challenge in gameplay (navigation, weapons handling).

I dont need no artificial squad system to make it easy on the noobs/idiots, they wont care anyway.

everything we need is already there? are you friggin kiddin me?  

arma online is chaos in its purest form. there is not notion of team; hell, you can't even recognise your own squad/clan members even if they are right in front of you!!!! unlike real life i don't know the faces/movements/voices of my team members, so how should i be able to recognise my squad?

the servers offer the worst multiplayer experience i have ever witnessed, mainly because of the OBVIOUS LACK OF TEAMPLAY. you just can't type up all orders  and expect everyone to work like that. i want to get into the game, get into a squad and be able to actually move as a squad. all of that is not really possible right now, unless you take 50 min of a 1 h game to type up all commands and keep moving in slowmo speed. and even within our clan we have problems to coordinate everything with teamspeak, since you are never able to identify your teamleader or squad members. this is destroying the whole teamplay experience.

and just let me add something: COOPS will kill the arma community one day. THIS COMMUNITY NEEDS TO WAKE THE FECK UP! coops can be fun from time to time, but real fun is actually fighting with and against humans. play bf2:project reality or joint ops and you will actually understand what i mean. i have the feeling that a part of the arma community never tried out playing a real multiplayer game, otherwise i can't explain that blatant ignorance when it comes to arma's missing multiplayer features.

suggestions:

- add a point system which includes ASSIST points --> bf2 and jointops are evidence enough that this will encourage teamplay.

- add a squad system: works flawlessly in bf2 and is very effective.

[sirex 0]

im not so sure. the point (and rank) system in bf2 is what made it so addictive, but was also the number 1 reason for asshat'ary.

comms in the game (arma) are definatly poop, even when you know the numbers for the commands its not great, the comms rose(es) for bf2 was *very* cool.

i think joining squads inside the game should be implemented for sure as per bf2 (inc squad password) however i dont want to see "spawn on the squad leader" ala bf2, cos that sucked balls (if your defending anyhow).

and with regards to project reality, my clan played it for a long while as our only game, and i wouldnt say it had any teamwork value beyond any other game.

You'd use your SL to spawn on, maybe give a bit of ammo (something id like in arma as well, for mags anyhow), and maybe magic-medic some people, but moving as a squad ? please..... i spent alot of time giving people chopper rides, and every time they got off the chopper and just ran in their own direction. The only time you saw medics running to the aid of their friends is when their thinking about the points they'll get.

[big 0]

and just let me add something: COOPS will kill the arma community one day.

Can u tell me why and how?

U can play what u want while i play what i want.

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

im not so sure. the point (and rank) system in bf2 is what made it so addictive, but was also the number 1 reason for asshat'ary.

comms in the game (arma) are definatly poop, even when you know the numbers for the commands its not great, the comms rose(es) for bf2 was *very* cool.

i think joining squads inside the game should be implemented for sure as per bf2 (inc squad password) however i dont want to see "spawn on the squad leader" ala bf2, cos that sucked balls (if your defending anyhow).

and with regards to project reality, my clan played it for a long while as our only game, and i wouldnt say it had any teamwork value beyond any other game.

You'd use your SL to spawn on, maybe give a bit of ammo (something id like in arma as well, for mags anyhow), and maybe magic-medic some people, but moving as a squad ? please..... i spent alot of time giving people chopper rides, and every time they got off the chopper and just ran in their own direction. The only time you saw medics running to the aid of their friends is when their thinking about the points they'll get.

omg. how i could i just forget about the comms roses system? that is another good feature i'm missing in arma. arma is a great modding plattform, i just wish bis would have stolen more features from the jointops and bf2:pr.

as for project reality: of course it depends on the people in your squad, but if you come into the game with your own clan and split up into different squads - UNBEATABLE! you can recognise and stick to your team members very easily, and at least in bf2:pr a few people used their med/ammo packs. in arma i have yet to find a medic which is willing to med AND actually able to find me. ammo support is also missing.

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

and just let me add something: COOPS will kill the arma community one day.

Can u tell me why and how?

U can play what u want while i play what i want.

because everyone keeps focussing on fighting bots instead of playing REAL multiplayer?

this way no one will ever try to improve arma's current lack of multiplayer features. more and more people who are looking for a decent mp match will get frustrated and leave the game in the corner. just have a look and the different fan forums wher arma is refered to as a "stillbirth". why? because arma great potential is wasted on coops, bugs and missing features.

half our squad is frustrated right now because of the lack of mp playablity and teamplay. most servers are either boring coops, full of teamkillers or offer awful maps. out of the box arma is making it hard for a clan to set up good mp games and work as a team. that's the brutal truth. a shame, having in mind its great potential for mp games.

[sirex 0]

acutally i find the other problem, when im able to be i always play medic, and i find alot of the time im running after guys trying to medic them, fireing near them to get their attention. - i was so tempted to shoot one guy in the back of the head after he ignored me for a mile bleeding as he went !

edit: btw i agree entirely with your above post.

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

acutally i find the other problem, when im able to be i always play medic, and i find alot of the time im running after guys trying to medic them, fireing near them to get their attention. - i was so tempted to shoot one guy in the back of the head after he ignored me for a mile bleeding as he went !

lol. where were you when i always needed a med?

[big 0]

Quote[/b] ]because everyone keeps focussing on fighting bots instead of playing REAL multiplayer?

Maybe it means that people likes to play coop

Quote[/b] ]

this way no one will ever try to improve arma's current lack of multiplayer features. more and more people who are looking for a decent mp match will get frustrated and leave the game in the corner. just have a look and the different fan forums wher arma is refered to as a "stillbirth". why? because arma great potential is wasted on coops, bugs and missing features.

who has to improve the game?

So u are saying that modders/mission makers/ scripters have to stop doing things for coop and start working on what u like (tvt)? or u mean bis only improves things coop related cause only people who plays coop ask about them all the time?

Quote[/b] ]half our squad is frustrated right now because of the lack of mp playablity and teamplay. most servers are either boring coops, full of teamkillers or offer awful maps. out of the box arma is making it hard for a clan to set up good mp games and work as a team. that's the brutal truth. a shame, having in mind its great potential for mp games.

- boring for u.

- teamkillers are in all games and gametypes.

- awful maps?, maybe u can create better ones or just play on ur own server where u can select the maps u wanna play.

I find almost impossible to do any teamwork in a public server with no admin present. It doesn't matter if its coop or TvT.

In our server (while we play), its on the rules, if people joins and doesn't cooperate they are simply out.

And i dont like what u call "real multiplayer", cause as i see it (and its only my opinion) that real MP is just a solo game where no one does any teamwork, where people with better PC's have a great advantage vs others, and more. But it doesn't mean that TvT cant be played, just that u wont see me playing it cause i don't like it.

U can set a fight vs other clan and there is the only way to play that real MP u are talking about.

Publics servers imo are impossible to control, u just have to find a good one to play in.

[colligpip 0]

This mission has respawn on leader of the squad and is very similar to the Bf2 pr system IMO. Makes for real hectic battles whilst still retaining a tactical element to the game.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=59465

[fasad 1]

Could someone please explain what the "BF2 squad system" is and what it does?

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

Could someone please explain what the "BF2 squad system" is and what it does?

Squads

Players are able to form themselves into one-to-six-man squads, for better versatility and survivability on the battlefield. Members of a squad have the added ability to communicate to players within their squad via Voice-over IP (VoIP), a method of voice communication integrated into BF2.

The squad leader is tasked with providing objectives to his squad members (such as moving, attacking, defending, repairing an objective) which will appear on their interface as waypoints or coloured smoke markers. The squad leader is also the only person in the team that has full access to the T menu, which consists of the ability to request orders, artillery, UAV support, and supply/vehicle drops from the commander, as well as the only player that is able to communicate directly to the commander via VoIP.

The members of the squad have the option of "spawning" on their squad leader instead of the flag. This can present considerable advantage, for as long as the squad leader is alive and the team has at least one control point, squad members can keep spawning on him and continue their attack until their objective is achieved.

[edit] Commanders

The commander position is an exclusive role in each team that is assigned via player application according to online rankings. The Commander plays the strategic role of a battlefield commander, assigning objectives to squad leaders and providing artillery, satellite scan, MQ-1 Predator UAV reconnaissance, supply and vehicle drops. The commander is like any other soldier on the battlefield in that he chooses a kit, spawns in, can die, etc. The commander can resign at any time and become a regular soldier, letting others apply for the commander position. If players feel that their current commander is not doing a good job of commanding, there is an option to vote for a mutiny. If an overwhelming majority of teammates vote "yes," the mutiny succeeds and the Commander will be forced to relinquish his role as commander

taken from wikipedia

[big 0]

and how is working on ArmA?

sorry but i never tried it, i just played coop where the leader can give orders.

what arma lacks or is not working correctly?

[NeMeSiS 11]

what arma lacks or is not working correctly?

He is probably playing CTF/DM where everyone is in his own squad so they cant give orders to eachother.

If he wants to use tactics he should play decent missions (it IS possible to play tactical with CTF/TDM, but never seen in public servers, so COOP is usually the most tactical experience but you have to know which servers to use).

The squadleader can give all the orders he needs to (attack/engage/move/get in/etc etc etc) and groupmembers can reply alot of things with the menu (copy/negative/repeat/injured/ammo low/etc etc etc). If you still want to say something else you can just type it.