Authentic sound & weapon Mod

[ThePredator 0]

Well, the FOV of 0.95 is default in vanilla ArmA with the possibility to zoom to 0.4.

In many games the default field of view is around 0.75 to 0.85 (latter was used for rifles)

As in the real world (somewhere beyond "windows") combat over greater distances IS actually hard. That's why most engagements take place in under 200 m (and that's one reason why the US of A got the crappy 5.56x45 mm caliber round).

A smaller FOV would reduce the CQB efficiency for the Aimpoint.

If you take the weapon model as a reference, the FOV is perfect (just the models for the AK and RPG/AT-4 have to be modified).

However, if a human is only about 1,50 m tall, you will actually find it difficult to spot and engage "man sized" targets.

I played around with the FOV alot and now I am using 0.75 (as seen in the pictures above). I don't want to zoom in any further, since this would ruin the feel of real aiming.

If it comes to realism, the human eye could spot a human silouhette at 500 m and arms/legs at 300 m...

Well, if this should be the case, no solution would fit in. This is a game, and this mod is intended for multiplayer ONLY. Neither you can spot the enemy nor the enemy can spot you.

Zooming ruins the immersion factor. You sit around with your bare eyes and spot enemies over great distances with the zoom, without you have to either use optics or trust on your superior with his binoculars.

Nobody said shooting at 200 m with iron sights is easy. Even on 100 m I have a hard time in low light conditions on camouflaged targets.

[versus 0]

i see what you mean...

the difficulty with all this of course is the screen resolution...

whats the FOV in your mod right now (0152_c_beta)?

i'm having a pretty hard time seeing soldiers at 200m at 1280x1024...

EDIT:

i like what you did with the tracers btw...

however i noticed the tracers of the cobras gun bounce off of the water surface without leaving any hit effects on the water.

[ThePredator 0]

The FOV in the current release is 0.85 for weapons and 0.95 for individuals.

As far as I know every explosive ammo does act like that on water.

[operation madman 0]

Is it possible to change your weapon zoom config to work for MP?

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I'm rather more concerned with the angular size of men

at given ranges than with the actual FOV. Just doing a

rough calculation based on you sitting half a metre away

from your screen, a man 150cm tall standing 200m away

from you should subtend an angle (measured on your screen)

of a bit less than 4mm. As it is they subtend considerably

less than that meaning that they effectively appear much

further away than they really are, and thus making it much

harder to spot and shoot targets than in reality it would

be.

You might be familiar with the sort of calculation done

to derive this figure, since you're a shooter yourself.

I used to have to work out representative sizes of things

for training young soldiers on landscape targets. For

example we often were forced to shoot on a 50m pistol

range using subcalibre devices in our rifles, but I

needed the boys to see what it was like to fire at the

same targets 300 metres away, so I had to work out how

big the target had to be at 50m to look as if it was

actually at 300m. Roughly the same sort of principle

applies here except "distance to representative target"

is "distance to screen". I stress that it is rough

but I am just trying to point out how misleading the

view in the game is with all zoom removed. The formula

(adapted for our purposes) is:

(height of target in cm x distance from screen in m)

----------------------------------------------------

            (representative range in m)

to give an answer in cm

Thus, taking our example 150cm ArmA man standing at 200m,

and assuming I am sitting 50cm from the screen, we get

150 x 0.5

----------

  200       = 0.75cm = 0.375cm = 3.75mm

so measured on screen he should appear a bit less than 4mm

high. Currently men standing at this range are much smaller

than this on screen implying that they are drawn as if

they were much further away than they are supposed to be.

The discrepancy becomes even greater if the men are taller

than 150cm in the game. Screen resolution alters this

somewhat but the numbers are still of the same order and

the point is still valid.

The problem, as I said in my last post, is that the only

way you can correct this, because of the way the game

works, is to alter the scene's FOV to make it narrower (or to

have a selective zoom feature, which is the real reason why

the game has one in the first place). When I was playing Op.

Flashpoint I usually opted for the first option of setting a

narrower "more zoomed in" FOV by default and totally

removing the automatic "iron sights zoom" (I really don't like

the way the iron sights zoom in). Not ideal, but I did get used

to it and it did make the targets appear a more realistic

size naturally - without having to "zoom in" to check how

they looked all the time. I was working on adjustable sights

for my addon rifles at the time so being able to do a bit

more accurate range estimation based on target appearance

was important for me. I'm wondering if using a TrackIR might

make a permanently "zoomed in" view in ArmA less restrictive

to use now.

I should say that the sounds and the new tracer effects in

your mods are very good, and I'd like to keep using them. I

am having a problem though because including any of your

mods seems to disable all other addons (they don't appear

in the editor even though they are all correctly installed).

[ThePredator 0]

This is the kind of feedback I was hoping for, now I can try to work on this specific issue in detail.

Just one thing, not related to the mod or the feedback itself, please use center alignment for your text formatting. YOur post is very long not as compact to read (imho)

Since I am using a kind of "total conversion" mod method, no other addons will show up. I modified the main config. If anyone knows if the above is really true or has a work-around, please let me know. However I doubt it will work, because I modified the config the addon is based on.

A possible solution could be to use a narrow FOV as default and for CQB zoom out to a wide (0.75) FOV.

I don't want any kind of zoom, just a fixed FOV, so I have to check what options I have.

[max power 21]

This is what I was trying to express to you earlier without any math to back me up.

[ThePredator 0]

I always encounter one major issue:

If the FOV is too narrow, the whole scene looks wrong. You zoom in on the target like an eagle-eyed cyborg, even with a fixed FOV for gun view, therefore making the Aimpoint pretty much useless and the weapons look poor too, if you don't see the parts you should see with proper aiming techniques.

Different FOV for each weapon will lead to one good and many poor weapons, even if I give a damn about balancing, I know what's going on in multiplayer games.

Now, you have a hard time finding targets, but what would be the alternative? The magic zoom? Less combat distance?

I opt for latter, because there is NO way I will use any kind of magnification to simulate the human eye in a game, that does not simulate the human in anyway.

So be it, less combat distance with a FOV that will require a better player behaviour to engage targets at distance.

There is no way to get the FOV of a human eye working with the limits of a computer game. I do know a lot of games with fixed FOV and combat works pretty well.

[chammy 7]

Hey Pred, check out my new samples, finally have time to get more done for ArmA and OFP. These are more or less, trial ones just to see how they look or sound rather.

[max power 21]

With your fixed FOV games, Predator, are there any with ranges up to 300 yards?

[ThePredator 0]

Yes, they have more than 300 yards viewdistance.

Based on the Unreal engine, though.

[sickboy 13]

If you want to make your addon future version proof and not have a replacement BIN, you should be able to recreate the classes you wish to edit, inside an addon, and only list/overwrite the values you wish to override...

Best example would be the FDF soundpack, you could do exactly the same but then also for Weapon Values etc.

You will have to make sure though, that at the RequiredAddons section of this config, that you have added all the Addons of which you are changing values, aswell as all the RequiredAddons as they are listed inside those used Addons. I hope this is making any sense

[bigshot 63]

i noticed v0151 is not compatible with the MFCTI beta mission...so i had to revert back to 015B (SO)

...not a biggy since i preferrred the 015B sound anyway, but just letting you know

[operation madman 0]

Try to make this work on MP if it is posiible.

Anyways, your mod is the most realistic mod out there so far in my book.

[ThePredator 0]

It is intended for MP use ONLY.

[chammy 7]

Hey Predator, I was checking out your viewpoints and , don't you think the supporting arm should be a little lower out of view? Cause when I aim in both supported and unsupported in real life I don't stick my elbow way out, and I have not seen anyone else do that either. And yes, I do see what you're talking about as in the sights are too far out , as if aiming with the rifle out stretched.

[abdecken 1]

nice mod, i can only imagine how much better armar can get!

please could someone tell me how to enable the right mouse button zoom again like in the origional game becuase i prefer using it.

[funnyguy1 0]

Do you consider implementing steerable tows Pred? like the sa8gecko's ones

Also, is it possible to change the Cobra's weapons in the config so that we could have those tows instead of hellfires?

AI uses them on quite short ranges too, and would also be cool if you fixed it in your mod. ( some facts)

[ThePredator 0]

Well, I don't feel much passion for ArmA modding at the moment. Somehow it is quite annoying the way it is. Did not play for ages now...

I will take an undefinied break, maybe I will continue some time later. The mod is basicly a one-man project with some good feedback from the community and contributors, but the lack of skill on my side makes it difficult to change what I'd like to change (the models for example, reticles, effects etc).

[skimbo 0]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Don't leave for too long. We need you back to continue your stunning work!!!!

Come back soon!

Skimbo

(Predator groupie)

[ThePredator 0]

I'll wait for the US release and maybe someone will help me then.

[stingfish74 0]

hey Predator, B4 you jet, help me for a second.

i have a few gun sounds in wav format. now im using audacity to edit the files. i want the sounds to be louder from the shooters position, and sound louder from a distance. now how do i accomplish?

do i increase the weapon config DB OR do i use audacity to make the wav file louder?

[ThePredator 0]

The dB value just increases hearing distance (my experience)

Changing the actual volume, you have to use the program, but don't create clippings, this will result in crackling noises.

[Guest]

Sorry I did not read all the pages in this thread.

I like the sound mod very much but when I load the game with the mod's folder I cannot play with any addon I have in my addons folder.

Is that how it should be?

[funnyguy1 0]

I'll wait for the US release and maybe someone will help me then.

Well, we're waiting then.

Great work anyway, I just can't go back to the oryginal ArmA anymore!