TrackIR

[Col.Flanders 0]

Hi,

I love the fact that TrackIR support has been added to the game. It's actually what got me to buy a TrackIR(4pro).

I have been experiencing a problem though. I played the demo - TrackIR worked brilliantly. Then I bought the full game and patched to 1.05. The problem comes in when sighting ( ironsights zoom). In the demo, when zoomed into ironsights, all axes except for leaning and Z axis were disabled (ie. you could not look left/right/up/down when zoomed in). This was great because you could still lean perfectly but yet you would not lose your target because of the super-senstive way in which the trackIR reacts when you are zoomed. Even if you toggle your 'precision mode' when zoomed in you have trouble keeping firstly the gunsight central to your view as well as keeping the target in the sight. You also lean in slow motion when you have this mode toggled. I'm finding that when in CQB situations where you really want to be using the TrackIR to its fullest, it becomes almost impossible to use it at all because you simply cannot be precise enough to aim properly. I know that some would say simply pause TrackIR when using optics but unfortunately this completely defeats the purpose of having such an incredible leaning system.

I understand why this feature was implemented but in all honesty it is really not practical. The way it worked in the demo was perfect - BRING THAT BACK, please! That, or maybe give us a key option to disable periperal viewing whilst in optics view. Is there a wishlist thread or something I could post this in?

Does anyone else feel my pain in this regard?

[dmarkwick 261]

My response to this would be to try and imagine the actual practicality of actually leaning around a corner with a weapon up. It seems to me that the system of leaning around a corner gives you a slight advantage against the AI in any case, they don't respond to you unless they see all of you, but even disregarding this the slight wobble and inaccuracy invoked when leaning is quite realistic.

IMO natch

[Monkwarrior 0]

Seems like DMarkwick doesn't own a TrackIR device (am I right ?).

If you did and tried it you would know Flanders has a very valid request. I agree it would be better if reverted back.

Monk.

[RogueRunner 0]

Just disable the axis you do not want in TIR!

It is VERY VERY difficult to lean and line up sights and shoot in real life, especially if you are right handed leaning to your left! The current TIR application is very good and I do not think it needs further adjustment by BIS

[RogueRunner 0]

Hey mister chicken lickin', only saw it was you now that posted Thought we talked about this on SAIX

I did what ARM proposed there and disabled my lean axis and using the keyboard for that. Works like a charm! I am still playing with the zoom axis and adjusting sensitivity to get the sweet spot for it. I normally take my track hat off when not flying but after I disabled the lean axis it's much more user friendly

[Monkwarrior 0]

Good suggestion, I will try this out too

Monk.

[dmarkwick 261]

Seems like DMarkwick doesn't own a TrackIR device (am I right ?).

If you did and tried it you would know Flanders has a very valid request. I agree it would be better if reverted back.

Monk.

Nope, I HAVE got a TrackIR and use it extensively in ArmA, otherwise I wouldn't have proffered an opinion. It seems to work fine for me, leaning while in ironsights seems just fine, just takes a little practice is all.

I made myself a little mission to practice this exact thing, placed 4 OPFOR riflemen to appear at random places facing different directions in the township in the Rahmadi map, and spawned in as a marksman in a safe place.

Then I change weapons to the silenced pistol and go about the place as stealthily as I can, which means going around corners leaning and with ironsights up. (Pistol ironsights are every bit, if not more, twitchy that rifle ironsights.)

It DOES take practice, but if you make the practice entertaining then it's a job well done

[Col.Flanders 0]

Rogue, howzit!

Ya, I'd thought of that but I really liked what they had going in the demo. When you go to optics, the purpose of it is to be looking straight down your sight and not be looking all over the place. If I want to look around, I should be able to come out of optics view and look around from there - it's really that simple. The fact that TrackIR gives you an unprecedented system of leaning in an FPS title is ruined by this new system that is currently in place. What made it so special is that it is an analogue system of leaning (ie. I lean just as much as I want to so that my target is revealed - all whilst in gunsight view).

Now, I've gone and spent R2000 on a trackIR only to have to set up keys again for leaning with a non-analogue type style. In other words, either I lean all the way or nothing at all - with keys I want to be using for other things.

Can you disable multiple axes on the fly whislt in-game with a hotkey? Probably a big ask but that would be a rough solution to this problem. If not that, then what would be needed is an option to do it from the controls setup in-game ie. freelook in optics on/off.

I want my TIR lean dammit...I was loving it! They had it perfect and then they just took it over the top.

[Col.Flanders 0]

DMarkwick, hi!

My problem is not leaning with the TrackIR - that part I really enjoy. Gives me something of a pc workout too.

The problem is looking through the ironsight, keeping my head still enough to keep the ironsight central and also track a target with my mouse. Essentially, I want natural head movement - I don't want to devote 90% of my concentration to keeping my eyeball on the target. In real life this isn't even a consideration.

I hate to harp on about it but the way they had it in demo with regard to TIR was spot on.

[dmarkwick 261]

DMarkwick, hi!

My problem is not leaning with the TrackIR - that part I really enjoy. Gives me something of a pc workout too.

The problem is looking through the ironsight, keeping my head still enough to keep the ironsight central and also track a target with my mouse. Essentially, I want natural head movement - I don't want to devote 90% of my concentration to keeping my eyeball on the target. In real life this isn't even a consideration.

I hate to harp on about it but the way they had it in demo with regard to TIR was spot on.

Ah, yep I hear you

I can only really suggest two things, one is practice (patronising of me I know ), I had similar problems when I first got my TIR for flight sims, keeping my head from flapping all around when under stress is just something to work on.

The other thing is to widen your TIR dead-zone a little, to give you a little more tolerance for head-flapping

In it's defence I have to say that moving your head doesn't effect the actual aim of the weapon, you still have 100% of that under mouse control. But I hear what you're saying

[Col.Flanders 0]

I tried adding a dead zone to my left/right/up/down but it felt a little strange - almost like I was the terminator t800 scanning my peripheral for targets. Leeeeeft-*CENTER*-riiiiiiiight-*CENTER* Just seemed jerky and unnatural.

I've practiced a lot and I really got into it prior to getting the full version but now I gotta admit I'm battling.

My argument lies here: Optics view is/was designed to look down ironsight/scope and take aim upon the enemy. Nothing more, nothing less. No peripheral vision should be included aside from the peripheral vision achieved by looking at the situation through your other eye - without moving your head.

sigh - I'll dream, I'll dream.

[Blanco 0]

yeah same here, I also would like to have an option to lock yaw & pitch in ironsight. Right now I only use trackIR for flying helicopters & planes.

[b1sh0p 0]

I have TrackIR4 pro as well, but I disagree completely.   I like the new system much more.   I don't find TrackIR to be too sensitive when in iron sights at all, and I love the fact that you can still look around when in iron sight mode.  

Perhaps they should make it an option.  You can have the current implementation, or you can have the old implementation.  

I would be quite upset if they removed the current functionality, I like it very much.

i should add that I have the Z and yaw axis disabled however. I lean witht he q and e keys, and zoom with the right mouse button. Maybe the problem you are describing is coming from leaning and zooming with trackIR. If so, just disable those Axis and do them with the keyboard/mouse.

[Col.Flanders 0]

bish0p,

I don't have a problem with leaning and zooming. The problem is that when I zoom, my "head" becomes too sensitive and I can't keep it still enough to look through the sight effectively. Everything jitters so if I could keep my gunsight central and steady enough, I wouldn't have a problem. It has nothing to do with the mouse btw, I can leave my mouse alone and if I go to ironsight it's still hard to keep it still.

If you could compare it to a mouse though, it would be as if your mouse was waaay to sensitive and you had a jackhammer pounding away on your desk - very difficult to handle. Could you describe your TIR profile? Or maybe post it here?

[Col.Flanders 0]

I was just trying a couple of things in-game again and something I've realised is that the problem seems to be a lot less severe when you have really decent framerate. On missions where your framerate is lower (for me it's that "attack the convoy" one in single player), like if I'm looking into the sunlight zoomed in, my framerate drops a lot and this makes it almost impossible to control. It actually makes me feel a little dizzy. On a mission like say "desert ambush", my framerate is way better. It seems to make the whole thing so much more managable.

[sc0 0]

I know what you mean Col.Flanders. I had the same problem that you are having when I used the same TrackIR profile that I was using for 1.04 in 1.05. That is until I modify the profile.

I also didn't like it when I added dead zones to the yaw and pitch so instead of having dead zones I did something else to them. Rather than trying to explain to you what I did I have included my TrackIR profile as I think you will understand better if you see them for yourself.

Armed_Assault.xml

Note: I am using a 20" widescreen monitor in case you are wondering as to why my yaw and pitch graphs are considerably different.

[Mave 0]

We called that TrackIR "not lining with sights" in IL-2 a "Crack nigga head shake", it's the strange urge to watch somewhere else while you are pulling the trigger in adrenaline rush

When you get used to TrackIR, you will start to love the thing that you can actually look around with ironsights.

I made a video of TrackIR-use in ArmA 1.05. Getting killed all the time, but that's not the point (and those 10+ beers might have something to do with it also

Check the video from here: http://rekyyli.pp.fi/videot/arma/

[JohnMalcolm1970 0]

I too bought a TrackIR primarily to place this game. TrackIR support was great before the 1.05 patch, and better after it. I like to be able to look around in ironsight mode. I'd prefer full 6DOF support, but that really would make it challenging to get a proper sight picture. As it is, I don't know what's bothering some. Perhaps things aren't configured properly..... or perhaps you've got a wobbly head

[Barred 0]

Personally I use a lineae profile so I do not get any sudden 'jumps' when moving my head. If you do make your axis linear then drop them aswell to slow the speed off.

I agree with Col.Flanders when he said "My argument lies here: Optics view is/was designed to look down ironsight/scope and take aim upon the enemy. Nothing more, nothing less. No peripheral vision should be included aside from the peripheral vision achieved by looking at the situation through your other eye - without moving your head." as the two things are different.

[JohnMalcolm1970 0]

Imagine a real life example. Imagine you are in the prone position with a rifle and you've 'got your ironsights up', i.e. you've got the butt of the weapon in your shoulder, your head in the correct place and a good sight picture.

Your hear a noise to you left. Are you going to:

a) Remove the butt of the weapon from your shoulder, relax your hold on the rifle and turn your head towards the source of the noise. (what happened with pre 1.05 and TrackIR)

b) Remove the butt of the weapon from your shoulder, relax your hold on the rifle and start shuffling your whole body around to face the left. (what many players without TrackIR in 1.05 and previous versions still do)

c) Keep the weapon in position and ready to fire, while turning your head quickly to the left to scan for danger. (the current 1.05 implementation of TrackIR and the one I favour)

Sniper type optics and similar are of course different and don't work the same in ArmA with TrackIR, but IRL your face could be almost in contact with the scope and turning your head sharply without either moving your head back or the weapon forward could be painful.

I suppose BIS could suit everyone by making it a selectable preference in a future patch.

[andersson 285]

I love the new ability to look around in optic view. I find it most useful when I can lower the sights and still be in optic view. Because then I can scan the horizon without the optics disturbing my view, I also have a better view when walking and still be ready to fire. I also like to take a quick look left or right to see what happening around me.

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

Sometimes it is just a matter of personal preference. I like the new addition, but I can see the point of people who preferred the view before 1.05.....

[Col.Flanders 0]

Ya look I'm not saying they should revert it. I realise now that many like it and it's a matter of personal preference but I really would like the ability to lock my view on the fly once in gunsight view. I think if it was defaulted to 'unlocked' when you enter that view then everyone should be happy - just means one extra key press for me.

[kegetys 2]

It would be nice if there would be separate settings in the TrackIR software for on foot, aiming, in vehicle, etc. Though it would require changes from both NP and BIS.

[ARM505 0]

Bloody Saffers!

Well, like I said on the SAIX forums, I disabled the lean and the zoom axes. But I suppose that hasn't helped. All I could think of is if BIS added more setup options for the TiR, to cater for all tastes.