TrackIR Explained

[kegetys 2]

I can't send that to game developers and publishers, when they've never heard of us before.

Yet you can send multiple comments to other peoples youtube videos, with nothing but the naturalpoint URL in the message - That if anything is spam. And, correctly labeled as such and removed soon after posting. No company that knows some ethics of advertising would do that.

TrackIR is a nice device but that kind of stuff just ruins your reputation, and is quite annoying.

[OldGeezer 0]

@oldgeezer

right analogue stick on a 360 controller can do that!

Kinda, but you can only look around and not up and down as well. Plus, I figure it would take a few more neurons firing to use my thumb to simulate head movement than it would to move my head itself. Who knows...those few neurons could end up saving my butt instead. I've seen pictures of 'em before and kinda laughed, imagining myself getting eyestrain with my head turned sideways, but now that I've seen you can adjust it too your liking so you only have to move your head a bit to be looking all the way behind, I'm actually thinkin about it (as long as it won't make me lazy doing shoulder-checks when I'm really driving, lol). That and some LCD-shutter stereo glasses on a good CRT monitor would make this game hillariously real.

[Barred 0]

To be honest I am having more trouble reassining keys than I am to getting TIR working in game.

[Thunderbird 0]

Their approach is not classical and kind of uncommon, but I do appreciate their input and efforts in directly sharing informations here, even if it doesn't sound that "professional" to some people.

I don't see anything wrong with that, Instead, you should rather grab the opportunity to directly ask them questions or for more clarification.

Regards,

TB

[OldGeezer 0]

And btw...have you noticed there is some seriously inane crap on youtube? At least this is interesting. It's the kind of stuff you see on those "what's next" tv shows. I hope someone selling stereo glasses that he's tested with Armed Assault notices this and tells us about his gear too.

Just my two cents.

[znashin 0]

Quote[/b] ]"geez, i never realized you could nod at teammates in multiplayer - that's tight."

You can do that without the TIR using default alt key. You can do everything the TIR does on arma using keys/buttons but it ties up the mouse movement. Nice piece of kit though. Get it on more fp shooters and I'll get one. It's too pricey for me to get it for one game.

[Heatseeker 0]

Fair enough .

The advantages of tir for FPS gaming dont seem as significant as for driving/flying gaming/sims. In Arma the strong advantage is that we not only get to do fps combat but operate vehicles aswell (the vehicles are simple to handle though).

I take it you guys are trying to expand tIr for the fps scene.

Imo you have done a good job for Arma but i can only see this being used by few tactical FPS hardcores, in the more fast paced/cqb shooters players focus on center screen/crosshair all the time, no time to look around.

About the trailer the volume was very low and the voice wasnt very clear to me, it was smart not to use a good looking women with a sexy voice (made me focus on the tIr device and display only) but i didnt get half of your speech.

.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I have used TrackIR for several years with various flight

simulator games and frankly I cannot play any flying game

without it now! I support the efforts to add support for it

into FPS games and think its inclusion into Armed Assault is a

great start.

   However, there is still a small problem with the way the

head and body movement are synchronized in Armed Assault

which needs to be improved. Although this needs to be

corrected by the ArmA developers, not the TrackIR

developers, it does have an impact on the effectiveness of

the device in the game. I refer to the problem of looking to

one side then trying to aim quickly in that direction. The

TrackIR and ArmA animation do not cooperate properly in

modelling this action. For example, if one tries to look to the

right then snaps a rifle up into the aim one's head appears to

swivel farther around to the right (there is even a glimpse of

this happening on the last video you posted, at round about

the 4m 40s mark). This has a detrimental effect on the

gameplay when in a "Close Quarter Battle" situation of the

sort that I suspect a large majority of Arma players enjoy.

   I did try for some time to use my TrackIR in ArmA but due

to the dissonance between head, body and rifle movement

using TrackIR I have now reluctantly given up and reverted

to my old Op. Flashpoint technique of "hold down middle

mouse button to look about".

    I should say that I am using TrackIR 2 with the latest

"NaturalPoint" drivers. I cannot currently justify the expense

of an upgrade to a TrackIR 4. My setup therefore lacks

the "leaning" functionality but the other degrees of freedom

are supported.

[bionic 10]

Also whats the meaning of "advertising"?

If there is a thread "what hardware is the best for ArmA" anyone jumps on the boat and is calling for Intel,Nvidia,Logitech....

What is happening there is indirect advertising.

I like the way the NaturalPoint guys are going by talking to us gamer .

By this way we also get the chance to help improve the product so it better fit to our needs in future. Try the same thing on the official Nvidia or creative boards u will never get an answer.

@NaturalPoint-Warren

Can you say me is "edimensional" a trusted partner? I consider to buy a TIR4pro in 1 or 2 month but iam from germany and i don´t want to loose my money. Sure there are also shops in germany but it is still cheaper to buy it from the island.

[Gux 0]

TrackIR is a nice device but that kind of stuff just ruins your reputation, and is quite annoying.

Isn't that subjective though? You may be annoyed by what you think is spam but other people may be fine with it. I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like the threads on this public forum are sacred. And if it's a low content post it'll just quietly fade away if it's not interesting to people. If you don't like it, ignore it.

On topic:

I really like how Track IR works in the game, there's nothing else like it. However compared to other sims it's slightly more sluggish. I'm guessing that it's how the game handles input that produces that effect.

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

We are still using the Demo application here, as we haven't been able to gat a final version yet...

As for eDimensional, they are currently one of our TrackIR dealers, and should be able to ship out a new unit to you within a couple of days.

[OldGeezer 0]

I have used TrackIR for several years with various flight

simulator games and frankly I cannot play any flying game

without it now! I support the efforts to add support for it

into FPS games and think its inclusion into Armed Assault is a

great start.

   However, there is still a small problem with the way the

head and body movement are synchronized in Armed Assault

which needs to be improved. Although this needs to be

corrected by the ArmA developers, not the TrackIR

developers, it does have an impact on the effectiveness of

the device in the game. I refer to the problem of looking to

one side then trying to aim quickly in that direction. The

TrackIR and ArmA animation do not cooperate properly in

modelling this action. For example, if one tries to look to the

right then snaps a rifle up into the aim one's head appears to

swivel farther around to the right (there is even a glimpse of

this happening on the last video you posted, at round about

the 4m 40s mark). This has a detrimental effect on the

gameplay when in a "Close Quarter Battle" situation of the

sort that I suspect a large majority of Arma players enjoy.

   I did try for some time to use my TrackIR in ArmA but due

to the dissonance between head, body and rifle movement

using TrackIR I have now reluctantly given up and reverted

to my old Op. Flashpoint technique of "hold down middle

mouse button to look about".

    I should say that I am using TrackIR 2 with the latest

"NaturalPoint" drivers. I cannot currently justify the expense

of an upgrade to a TrackIR 4. My setup therefore lacks

the "leaning" functionality but the other degrees of freedom

are supported.

That kinda worries me, as it sounds like you really know what you're talking about.

Perhaps the programmers, in a future patch, could tell AA not to move the head (point of view) when the body moves if the head is more than X degrees off-center.

Edit: Strike that...then your head could end up being angled at center position. Maybe make the movement more gradual when the head is X degrees of center.

[kegetys 2]

TrackIR is a nice device but that kind of stuff just ruins your reputation, and is quite annoying.

Isn't that subjective though? You may be annoyed by what you think is spam but other people may be fine with it...

Of course it is, and anything I post is obviously my own opinion. Though it seems I'm also the only one here who has been targeted by them in form of the youtube comment spam to my videos. I can't ignore something like that as I need to manually clean it up.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

I have used TrackIR for several years with various flight

simulator games and frankly I cannot play any flying game

without it now! I support the efforts to add support for it

into FPS games and think its inclusion into Armed Assault is a

great start.

   However, there is still a small problem with the way the

head and body movement are synchronized in Armed Assault

which needs to be improved. Although this needs to be

corrected by the ArmA developers, not the TrackIR

developers, it does have an impact on the effectiveness of

the device in the game. I refer to the problem of looking to

one side then trying to aim quickly in that direction. The

TrackIR and ArmA animation do not cooperate properly in

modelling this action. For example, if one tries to look to the

right then snaps a rifle up into the aim one's head appears to

swivel farther around to the right (there is even a glimpse of

this happening on the last video you posted, at round about

the 4m 40s mark). This has a detrimental effect on the

gameplay when in a "Close Quarter Battle" situation of the

sort that I suspect a large majority of Arma players enjoy.

   I did try for some time to use my TrackIR in ArmA but due

to the dissonance between head, body and rifle movement

using TrackIR I have now reluctantly given up and reverted

to my old Op. Flashpoint technique of "hold down middle

mouse button to look about".

    I should say that I am using TrackIR 2 with the latest

"NaturalPoint" drivers. I cannot currently justify the expense

of an upgrade to a TrackIR 4. My setup therefore lacks

the "leaning" functionality but the other degrees of freedom

are supported.

Ive got to say i'm having a similar experience.  i bought TrackIR 4 soley for ArmA.  Flying its great, it takes a while to get used to but its proving invaluable flying the choppers.

BUT i have to say i end up disabling it when im on the ground.  It may be my profile settings but it just becomes too hard to use when you need to aim quickly.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Perhaps the programmers, in a future patch, could tell AA not to move the head (point of view) when the body moves if the head is more than X degrees off-center.

Edit: Strike that...then your head could end up being angled at center position. Maybe make the movement more gradual when the head is X degrees of center.

To fix this, they'd have to arrange it so that when you hit

the "sights up" key the point of aim becomes the centre of

the screen in whatever direction your [virtual] head is

looking. At present it doesn't do that.

[Red Spar 0]

I have a track ir 4 and I don't think I could live without it - especially for flying in Arma.

I had problems on the ground too with 6dof until I took out the forward/back movement for the game in the profile (It seems way too sensitive). With that disabled it is very nice to use on your soldier, your situational awareness goes up quite a bit and has saved my butt in battle more than once.

You just have to spend a little time to tweak it a bit for Arma and give yourself a few days to get used to it. I promise if you do that you will not go back.

[Sleepdoc 0]

NP Vincent. Welcome to yet another forum where your presence is VERY WELCOMED. I cant imagine why someone would view the support guy from a critical peripheral which is integrated into the game as a spammer. some guys would B#$%H if you hung them with a new rope....you know?

LOL. Its nice to see you here supporting. It sounds like the guy talking about "snap gunsight to sideways view" issue eneds to be understood and delt with. Prolly a BI issue, but you guys hould let them know about this frustration.

So any word yet on getting TRACKIR support for the G-15 Keyboard?

Sleepdoc

[Gux 0]

I had problems on the ground too with 6dof until I took out the forward/back movement for the game in the profile (It seems way too sensitive).

I had the same problem and found the same solution.

On the ground I use it mostly to check my sides. I try to not use it as a substitute for turning. It's a bit disorienting at first but you learn quickly.

[OldGeezer 0]

Perhaps the programmers, in a future patch, could tell AA not to move the head (point of view) when the body moves if the head is more than X degrees off-center.

Edit: Strike that...then your head could end up being angled at center position. Maybe make the movement more gradual when the head is X degrees of center.

To fix this, they'd have to arrange it so that when you hit

the "sights up" key the point of aim becomes the centre of

the screen in whatever direction your [virtual] head is

looking. At present it doesn't do that.

Yeah but then you'd have to find that enemy soldier behind all those bushes that you could barely see in the first place (hopefuly before he sees you).

I figured for sure you'd want to keep your head on the enemy whilst moving your gun to meet him. If the view changes to the iron sight as soon as you raise it, how do you gain an advantage? If you swing the gun around before you raise the sight, you have the same problem. If you raise the sight before you swing around, you've lost the enemy...?

[Col. Faulkner 0]

You just have to spend a little time to tweak it a bit for Arma and give yourself a few days to get used to it.  I promise if you do that you will not go back.

Well, I did spend some time (I remember that it took a while

to get used to TrackIR in flying games when I first got one),

and it is indeed possible to become accustomed to the

movement in ArmA and to use the device in the game. I

don't dispute that it is very convenient for swivelling your

head about, and is excellent for flying the aircraft with.

However, in my own case, I gave up using it after a while

(when on the ground) because the movement in coming up

into the aim was too artificial.

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

NP Vincent.  Welcome to yet another forum where your presence is VERY WELCOMED.  I cant imagine why someone would view the support guy from a critical peripheral which is integrated into the game as a spammer.  some guys would B#$%H if you hung them with a new rope....you know?

LOL.  Its nice to see you here supporting.  It sounds like the guy talking about "snap gunsight to sideways view" issue eneds to be understood and delt with.  Prolly a BI issue, but you guys hould let them know about this frustration.

So any word yet on getting TRACKIR support for the G-15 Keyboard?

Sleepdoc

Sleepdoc, thanks for the welcome, but I have been around here for awhile, just don't usually have a need to post...

As for the G-15 feature.....

I ran it by the development team, and added it to the feature list myself. It may take a little while for them to get to it though, as they are currently working on software for GDC.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Yeah but then you'd have to find that enemy soldier behind all those bushes that you could barely see in the first place (hopefuly before he sees you).

I figured for sure you'd want to keep your head on the enemy whilst moving your gun to meet him. If the view changes to the iron sight as soon as you raise it, how do you gain an advantage? If you swing the gun around before you raise the sight, you have the same problem. If you raise the sight before you swing around, you've lost the enemy...?

What I envisage is that the view changes to iron sight in the

direction in which you are looking. This in itself is not perfect

but would still be a vast improvement over the way it works

currently.  With TrackIR currently it is  very awkward to

quickly come up into the aim on a target that you have

spotted with your head swivelled out to one side. It is

possible to eventually come on target, but the movement is

slow, clumsy, spastic and very "unnatural". The great

advantage of TrackIR in virtual flying is that your [real] head

movements (although amplified on screen) are very natural.

It is not so just now when trying to aim a rifle in ArmA using

TrackIR.

[OldGeezer 0]

"

What I envisage is that the view changes to iron sight in the

direction in which you are looking. This in itself is not perfect

but would still be a vast improvement over the way it works

currently.  With TrackIR currently it is  very awkward to

quickly come up into the aim on a target that you have

spotted with your head swivelled out to one side. It is

possible to eventually come on target, but the movement is

slow, clumsy, spastic and very "unnatural". The great

advantage of TrackIR in virtual flying is that your [real] head

movements (although amplified on screen) are very natural.

It is not so just now when trying to aim a rifle in ArmA using

TrackIR.

Ahhh. I see. So your hips/legs remain still while the torso twists to bring the gun around. Once you let go the sight, the torse untwists/snaps back to the original position so your head never moves, and it feels natural to have to turn it back after you've taken your shot.

That would require some animation work on the models, but yeah! That sounds good. Perhaps a tiny accuracy penalty for taking a shot in such a posture, but it sound feasible.

Edit: It's either that or you get stuck with your head angled in center position.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Ahhh. I see. So your hips/legs remain still while the torso twists to bring the gun around. Once you let go the sight, the torse untwists/snaps back to the original position so your head never moves, and it feels natural to have to turn it back after you've taken your shot.

That would require some animation work on the models, but yeah! That sounds good. Perhaps a tiny accuracy penalty for taking a shot in such a posture, but it sound feasible.

Edit: It's either that or you get stuck with your head angled in center position.

Yes, sort of, but your [virtual] legs and body could also just

move into a natural firing position. Actually I didn't want to

make such a big thing out of this. As I said, you can

actually swing up onto a target out to the side but the way it

works is awkward and doesn't feel "real". I remember doing

CQB with the old SLR (which in the real world is about 40%

heavier than the M16 rifles in the game) and even with that

heavy rifle "assuming a steady firing position" came very

naturally and automatically. As it is now in ArmA with the

TrackIR it is clumsy and a bit spastic to try to make the same

movement. Even though your head is out to one side, if you

hit the "sights up" key the view snaps to the front again. If

you try to compensate by swinging your body/rifle around

before you hit "sights up" your head moves with your body (in

this case further out to the right). This forces you to move

your head back towards the left before you hit "sights up" to

get your iron sights pointing in the general direction of the

target. With practise you can do the swing and "head twitch"

at the same time but this "reverse" head motion is what

makes it feel so "wrong". Anyway, I'm conscious now that I

may be making it sound more serious a problem than it

perhaps is (given all the other stuff that still needs attention

in the game), but I did think that potential users of this

(somewhat expensive) device should know about it when

deliberating over whether to purchase or not. This was really

the only thing that I found to quibble with with the use of

TrackIR in ArmA. For flying and driving in the game it is

excellent.

Having thought about it again, I think I'm going to have

another go with the TrackIR in ArmA for a while.

[OldGeezer 0]

You know, now that I think about it, even without peripherals, would it not make more sense when turning the head with the Alt key, if hitting right mouse button to bring up the sights would swing you into natural firing postion without disturbing your view, rather than point the gun straight ahead while you're looking sideways while zooming, and snapping to center when sighting, which nobody would do in real life?. You'd keep looking at the target (the most likely reason you want to bring up the sights) while bringing the gun up to aim, turning your body accordingly.

Would that not be a good idea?