Partly destroyable buildings

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Hey guys

I know there are several projects around trying to create truely dynamic building destruction... But is that really what we need? I mean it would be truely awesome, but I could imagine it taking alot of resources to make multiple buildings etc.

Then today while playing a bit with the Harrier and LGB I tried bombing the prison that are located in the North/Northeast of the Island. I can't remember the name of the city there, but it's a big yellow square building with a large yard in the middle. I succesfuly hit that prison in the Northwest part of that prison, but instead of the whole building collapsed - only the northeast corner and a few sorrounding buildings took enough damage for it to crumble towards the ground. So the prison is made up of several models placed next to each other. The building blocks are perfectly square, though and the prison looks to be made out of around 8 blocks.

Why not make normal enterable houses that are made from several smaller pieces put together. The pieces should not be made perfectly square, though, as we want it to look randomly destroyed.

This way we can destroy some of the buildings while the rest remains - unless of course you do enough damage around the whole building.

The destruction won't be dynamic, but it would rather simulate different areas of damage to the building.

Of course it will work better on larger buildings, since smaller ones might just tend to be destroyed completely by a couple satchels.

Does anyone know if anyone is working on something like this, rather than truely dynamic ones?

[Guest]

im making faked destroyed buildings, but nothing that responds to damage from an outside source... It would be nice to make something like this but involves ALOT of work...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/djfrogstar/TCWARMA56.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/djfrogstar/TCWARMA58.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/djfrogstar/TCWARMA55.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/djfrogstar/TCWARMA53.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/djfrogstar/TCWARMA50.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/djfrogstar/TCWARMA52.jpg

[NeMeSiS 11]

Does anyone know if anyone is working on something like this, rather than truely dynamic ones?

Ive been thinking the exact same thing when i first saw the building destruction, however, i ran into some problems even in the 'making it up' fase.

What if you destroy the norteast corner? In that case you can see the 'behind' of the northwest and the southeast corner, how do you make that look good? Even with enterable buildings it will be a hell to make that.

The AI will probably have even more problems navigating trough the enterable building, and im not sure how the increased object count will affect the FPS.

But it could work, in theory

[Deadeye 1]

I did work on that kind of destruction for OFP.

here

Unfortunately my lack of modeling stopped me on continuing the project. I just couldn't get the house to look like a real building :P

I do have the scripts on an old HDD, and when the exam period is over I'll try to convert em to ArmA (though I might need some help)

[NeMeSiS 11]

I did work on that kind of destruction for OFP.

here

Unfortunately my lack of modeling stopped me on continuing the project. I just couldn't get the house to look like a real building :P

I do have the scripts on an old HDD, and when the exam period is over I'll try to convert em to ArmA (though I might need some help)

Well, i dont think that ArmA uses scripts to let the buildings 'collapse', it looks like a linear downwards animation, followed by a model replacement, i suspect this is hardcoded for this type of destruction, however i havent looked at this part of the config yet. (or experimented with it) (If someone did, please enlighten me )

(I guess that the use of such scripts for a big city would kill the FPS)

[Al Simmons 0]

atm deanosbeano and me are working on a destroyable building system which includes destroyable doors and windows, you can see a preview in the Entry tools thread.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

After looking a bit more on the prison, I can see that the building is divided into these parts which can seperately be targeted and destroyed.

If we simply make those 'squares' a little more edgy making them look more like ruins when they are gone, this could work quite easily and without any need for scripting and almost no (if any) hit on your FPS.

[max power 21]

That method is sound and widely used. The problem here is how do you impliment it?

Obviously, if you're going to blast a well off of a building, you're going to be able to enter it. Do you make only the enterable parts of the enterable buildings with this kind of model replacement? Do you make all parts of all buildings enterable? The former would be slightly lame, and the latter would be... well, good luck with that.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

That method is sound and widely used.  The problem here is how do you impliment it?

Obviously, if you're going to blast a well off of a building, you're going to be able to enter it.  Do you make only the enterable parts of the enterable buildings with this kind of model replacement?  Do you make all parts of all buildings enterable?  The former would be slightly lame, and the latter would be... well, good luck with that.

What do you mean? I can quite easily destroy one part of a building by simply putting 3 satchels next to the area I want to destroy.

Doing it this way it's really up to you. I can't really see why it is lame that only part of a building is enterrable? Some parts of a building could simply be 'locked off' to make the model easier.

Smaller buildings could be made fully enterrable - by simply making the model in your favorite 3D-program, and then dividing it into two or more pieces (depending how accurate you want the destruction to be, and how large the building is). For normal size houses such as the bar in arma right now - making it in two-three pieces would be sufficient for it to look accurate when destroyed. You could make it even more detailed pretty easily. You would be limited to only two dimensions though, so you cannot destroy only upper floor - but it is gonna have to be from top to bottom for every piece. It would look kinda weird if first floor hanging mid-air.

Here is an example of a non-enterable building cut in four pieces. You could make it enterrable with simply cutting the walls inside it in the same way.

We would probably run into AI pathfinding issues, though... But they dont work in BI models anyway

[abs 2]

Hmmm...are there any AI pathfinding issues in the prison?

Abs

[Edit]: Also, what I gather from other peoples accounts, the building is replaced with a damage model after the collapse. Do you know if it's the same model for all the buildings, or do they all have their own models?

[max power 21]

My point is as follows... and I'm not quite sure what I meant by 'well', I'm glad you were able to glean some sense out of that post.

3d model surfaces are like infinitecimally thin eggshells that are only visible on one side. A non-enterable building is a cube or whatever shape, but all there is is an outside. To make an inside, you have to at least make 9 more quads. If you have a jagged edge, that's a lot more quads. At least 1 for every jag on the edge. If you put a hole on that mesh, you're going to be able to see right through the building unless you put more polies in there... not to mention some interior details so it doesn't just look like the inside of a lunchbox.

You destroy one forth of the non-enterable building it like you have there, the number of polies used to make that building increases (and let me count to give you an actual realistic figure ) 18 to around 84... and you must admit that that model would be pretty lame! This doesn't include any additional model information or props such as a rubble pile or boards sticking out and the like. It only has to do with removing a 1/4 section like you have there and making a whole 1 piece model into 4 sections with an interior.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Hmmm...are there any AI pathfinding issues in the prison?

Abs

[Edit]: Also, what I gather from other peoples accounts, the building is replaced with a damage model after the collapse. Do you know if it's the same model for all the buildings, or do they all have their own models?

There are no pathfinding problems with the prison, as it's a non enterable building.

I think it's one or a couple damaged model for all houses? Might be wrong here, but I haven't seen big differences. This won't matter too much though, as using this techniqe the destroyed part of the building is just ruble while the remaining still stands with those sharp edges simulating ruin.

Quote[/b] ]My point is as follows... and I'm not quite sure what I meant by 'well', I'm glad you were able to glean some sense out of that post.

3d model surfaces are like infinitecimally thin eggshells that are only visible on one side. A non-enterable building is a cube or whatever shape, but all there is is an outside. To make an inside, you have to at least make 9 more quads. If you have a jagged edge, that's a lot more quads. At least 1 for every jag on the edge. If you put a hole on that mesh, you're going to be able to see right through the building unless you put more polies in there... not to mention some interior details so it doesn't just look like the inside of a lunchbox.

You destroy one forth of the non-enterable building it like you have there, the number of polies used to make that building increases (and let me count to give you an actual realistic figure ) 18 to around 84... and you must admit that that model would be pretty lame! This doesn't include any additional model information or props such as a rubble pile or boards sticking out and the like. It only has to do with removing a 1/4 section like you have there and making a whole 1 piece model into 4 sections with an interior.

That's true mate - the polies for the building incrieses... But it's still a very low poly building - even for enterrable buildings.

I'm not talking about replacing all buildings in a village, but merely some percent of the 'most interesting ones'. I seriously don't think it will have much impact on performace. Especially compared to other projects around trying to simulate real dynamic destruction.

If you look on the picture above (for a non-enterable building). t's really not much it requires. No, it won't look marvelous, but it doesn't do that now either, and atleast it would bring a new form of gameplay to the game.

[-HUNTER- 1]

Now all we need is a laserguided bomb explosion that is large with lots of dust and stuff flying arround. But with the explosion being as large as would be real. Because if OFP the LGB explosion wasnt very big...

I mean we need stuff like

Note: These are 2 different attacks and the explosion is "pimped" a bit, with stuff on the ground behind the wall, but still in the mission it looks nice.

But I think you guys get the point.

Those buildings with the damaged pieces look really well in maps like Iraq and then some parts of cities where lots of fighting has been going on. Great place to snipe from. Good for missions.

[max power 21]

My point wasn't that you will end up with a building with 84 polies. It was that the polycount will increase like 5 to 10 times. Good luck on your project.

[volkov956 0]

I do remeber seeing a VBS1 video where they were blowing up a house and driving tanks through them the detail and accuracy of the damage was not that bad at all. I was hoping that was gonna be implemented into Arma but I guess not

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

My point wasn't that you will end up with a building with 84 polies.  It was that the polycount will increase like 5 to 10 times.  Good luck on your project.

Exactly...

But a square building with roof isn't that many polys. Even if it was multiplied by 20.

[abs 2]

There are no pathfinding problems with the prison, as it's a non enterable building.

I think it's one or a couple damaged model for all houses? Might be wrong here, but I haven't seen big differences. This won't matter too much though, as using this techniqe the destroyed part of the building is just ruble while the remaining still stands with those sharp edges simulating ruin.

So once the damage is done, and a piece of the building is destroyed, then wouldn't the rest of the building be enterable? If it is, then would it need to be made accessible to the AI?

If the damage models could be replaced by something custom made for each piece, then you could at least have something still blocking entry into the rest of the building.

I think it's a great idea, I'm just trying to work out the logical issues here.

Abs

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Yea, the rest of the building will still be enterable even though some of it is destroyed. I could imagine simply making all four (if split up in four pieces) should be made enterable indepentendly so it won't really have any impact on AI pathfinding when some of the building is collapsed.

[CsonkaPityu 0]

I believe there was something like this, the problem was that when you shot out all the lower parts of a building the upper parts remained afloat as if by magic.

So you'll have to make it so that the buildings are split only vertically, not horizontally.

Or maybe you could try "tying" certain parts of a building together so that if part 06 gets destroyed then the part above 06 gets destroyed too. Maybe that's possible with ArmA's scripts but without tools to get started iunno.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I believe there was something like this, the problem was that when you shot out all the lower parts of a building the upper parts remained afloat as if by magic.

So you'll have to make it so that the buildings are split only vertically, not horizontally.

Or maybe you could try "tying" certain parts of a building together so that if part 06 gets destroyed then the part above 06 gets destroyed too. Maybe that's possible with ArmA's scripts but without tools to get started iunno.

Yea, I already stated that earlier in the thread. The parts need to go all the way up, more or less vertical :-)

[olemissrebel 0]

Fat chance of that happening if we cant even get the game running decently . Anyways, I believe the best idea to start with...

why not use the existing buildings and make different damaged versions, entereable versions, et cetera, and replace various and random ones on the map with those models to give the island some variety.

[Shins 0]

I believe there was something like this, the problem was that when you shot out all the lower parts of a building the upper parts remained afloat as if by magic.

So you'll have to make it so that the buildings are split only vertically, not horizontally.

Or maybe you could try "tying" certain parts of a building together so that if part 06 gets destroyed then the part above 06 gets destroyed too. Maybe that's possible with ArmA's scripts but without tools to get started iunno.

You can actually see this at some of the Docks on Sahrani. Where there are large shipping crates stack on top of each other you can destroy lower ones (trying running into them with a tank) and the ones on top of them stay afloat. Still, I'd rather have that than non-destructable scenery altogether. At least Arma's buildings /can/ be destroyed, even if only in one go. You don't see that in many games.

[Sled88 0]

Any plans for a release here? The buildings looking good so far... Maybe a bit low-qual textures on some places... but all in all its fine...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Any plans for a release here? The buildings looking good so far... Maybe a bit low-qual textures on some places... but all in all its fine...

lol :-)

[Chris Death 0]

Any plans for a release here? The buildings looking good so far... Maybe a bit low-qual textures on some places... but all in all its fine...

I'd expect this question from a modelling noob who has no

experience with what is required to import models into a

game.

You should know better Sled.

The tools have not been released yet.

~S~ CD