Crosshair issue

[dslyecxi 23]

It's terribly amusing that you are fixating so heavily on the crosshair and COMPLETELY missing what the actual issues are.

Removing the crosshair or altering the level of zoom is not going to fix this problem. There's much more to it than that.

[frederf 0]

Zoom-in and hold-breath just happen to be bound to the same key by default.

If you change them to different keys you can iron-sight zoom in (without holding your breath) all day.

IMO non-ironsight aiming should certainly be possible out to a reasonable range, but with crosshairs on you can non-ironsight aim out waaaay beyond what is reasonable. With crosshairs off you can't non-ironsight aim far enough.

Anther thing to consider is the act of zooming actually renders more stuff on the screen. My game doesn't render beyond approx 200m a lot of objects unless I decrease the FOV.

[max power 21]

The zoom is to compensate for the inability of modern video equipment to simulate the definition of human eyesight.

[Kirq 0]

It's terribly amusing that you are fixating so heavily on the crosshair and COMPLETELY missing what the actual issues are.

Removing the crosshair or altering the level of zoom is not going to fix this problem. There's much more to it than that.

Enlight us

[Rune 0]

I think removing the crosshair would be a bad idea, especially for TrackIR users who then will not even know where their body is pointing. In general, even without using TrackIR, you have way less of a clue where your gun is pointing in a game than you do then you feel it in your hands for real, so you really need some visual cue. But it should obviously not be very accurate, I'd be satisfied if the maximum range you could get a guaranteed hit on standing guy facing you was in the 10-50m range, but it looks and feels like it is more accurate than that.

The zoom is to compensate for the inability of modern video equipment to simulate the definition of human eyesight.

Absolutely! And it is a fantastic feature that shows that BIS has their heads on the right way in my opinion. In fact, the removal of that feature is the only design descision I always utterly hated about the WGL mod in OFP, because it makes you more nearsighted the slower your machine is, and even the people with monster machines would never be allowed to drive a car in the real world with eyesight like that

Should the zoom level really be fixed differently? Wouldn't it be better if it actually depended on the resolution you are running in? - that way you could make all players see a guy as the same size, pixelwise, under the same conditions regardless of how powerful their machine is.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

the answer is simple - MAKE CROSSHAIR LESS ACCURATE...

Hmm. Simple you say? Tell me then, how does one go about making a crosshair, which is simply a texture floating around the screen, "less accurate?" Honestly, as long as the crosshair is fixed to any position relative to the weapon's line of fire, no matter what shape the crosshair is, it will be just as "accurate" as how well the player has memorized where the bullets hit relative to the crosshair. Maybe you forgot to think that one through, or that you thought somehow the crosshair controls where the bullets go... in which case it doesn't. Sure BIS (or any addon maker, since it IS possible to mod the crosshairs) can try a ton of different crosshair possibilities, but none of them are going to have any effect on the accuracy of the weapon unless it randomly moves in different directions than the gun muzzle, but that would defeat the entire purpose of the crosshair. I don't believe I've ever heard something so stupid, and you should feel bad about saying it. All of these so-called simple answers seem to come from simple-minded people who haven't even thought them through, when in fact the answer is never that simple because if it were it would have been done already. Simple is a matter of opinion based on the scope of a persons perceptions, you think it's a simple answer because you only looked at it in a simple manner, without considering some of the less obvious (but obvious none the less) problems. Why am I making a big deal about this? Because 90% of the shitload of new threads created just to complain about something are created by people who never stop to think why it is like that in the first place. And just for the record, this is another example of how bitchy the community has become, since the crosshairs are EXACTLY the same as they were in OFP and nobody said shit about them then, but now since it's in ArmA it suddenly becomes something BIS obviously should have changed... God!

[dr_chris 10]

I turn crosshairs off completely.

1 - You should be able to recognise friendly units from hostile units. If not, you need to get some practice in

2 - You can aim the M203 perfectly well without the crosshair, again it just takes practice and therefore some skill, which is nicer than just installing the game and being an ace shot with it every time.

3 - Same as above for hand grenades.

[Kirq 0]

the answer is simple - MAKE CROSSHAIR LESS ACCURATE...

Hmm. Simple you say? Tell me then, how does one go about making a crosshair, which is simply a texture floating around the screen, "less accurate?" Honestly, as long as the crosshair is fixed to any position relative to the weapon's line of fire, no matter what shape the crosshair is, it will be just as "accurate" as how well the player has memorized where the bullets hit relative to the crosshair. Maybe you forgot to think that one through, or that you thought somehow the crosshair controls where the bullets go... in which case it doesn't. Sure BIS (or any addon maker, since it IS possible to mod the crosshairs) can try a ton of different crosshair possibilities, but none of them are going to have any effect on the accuracy of the weapon unless it randomly moves in different directions than the gun muzzle, but that would defeat the entire purpose of the crosshair. I don't believe I've ever heard something so stupid, and you should feel bad about saying it. All of these so-called simple answers seem to come from simple-minded people who haven't even thought them through, when in fact the answer is never that simple because if it were it would have been done already. Simple is a matter of opinion based on the scope of a persons perceptions, you think it's a simple answer because you only looked at it in a simple manner, without considering some of the less obvious (but obvious none the less) problems. Why am I making a big deal about this? Because 90% of the shitload of new threads created just to complain about something are created by people who never stop to think why it is like that in the first place. And just for the record, this is another example of how bitchy the community has become, since the crosshairs are EXACTLY the same as they were in OFP and nobody said shit about them then, but now since it's in ArmA it suddenly becomes something BIS obviously should have changed... God!

Pure flamewar bait.

If you never heard something so stupid You must be realy young person my friend and one more thing ...if You disagree with someone You dont have to isult this person.

Im reporting your post to moderator.

PS. Its funny when someone who cant imagine how to make crosshair less accurate calls someone a "simple-minded".

[CouchMonkey 0]

Now kids...

If you all remember the 203 never had the ironsights when OFP came out. it took the modding community to make them.

As for knowing friendlies from OPFOR. Normally I would agree with you but if you have large scale combat, you need to know where your people are without either tatooing names on thier heads or shouting "Hey XXXX shoot in the air to let me know which one you are".

[whisper 0]

the answer is simple - MAKE CROSSHAIR LESS ACCURATE...

[...blablabla...]

Pure flamewar bait.

If you never heard something so stupid You must be realy young person my friend and one more thing ...if You disagree with someone You dont have to isult this person.

Im reporting your post to moderator.

PS. Its funny when someone who cant imagine how to make crosshair less accurate calls someone a "simple-minded".

But the question remains : how do you make crosshair "less accurate"?

The crosshair shows where you're bullet is estimated to arrive, with a parallax error caused by the distance between your point of view (your eye, or a camera behind you in the case of 3rdperson view, in which case the parallax error is bigger) and the actual line of fire of the weapon (as seen in ironsight view)

There's no randomness, just this parallax thing. So, once one have mastered the actual aiming reference differences, how do you make the crosshair "less accurate"?

[Mora2 0]

Precisely what they need to fix is the new ironsights.

it has too much sway, they are clunky, suck, very user unfriendly, not fluid, it sucks.

they should get rid of weapon swy or get back to 2d ironsights.

If not increase accuracy 100% in ironsight mode+ eliminate weapon recoil in a 75%

[frederf 0]

The community never made proper M203 sights because the quadrant or leaf sights are not made to reference the horizon, but the front sight. And the angle of viewing through the sights is not adjustable in OFP or ArmA.

Either ArmA should have an autoprinted name tape on your skin as well as your rank in multi or have some way to discover (use reveal key) the identify of friendly units at closeish range even on veteran. Heck if the voice comms in ArmA were as good as teamspeak or similar, they could actually have the voices seem to come from the players (so if the speaking player was behind you your audio would make it sound as if he's behind).

A decent grenadier can fire a M203 round into a window at 100m or so. Without any sort of sight that kind of accuracy isn't possible. It's possible to fire and adjust with a blank screen but it's too hard compared to real life.

If I'm not busy later today I'll take a screenshot and photoshop in what a decent crosshair would look like for general shooting (fuzzy so you know where your guns pointed roughly, but no good beyond 50m).

[Mora2 0]

And by the way those who are saying crossharis are more accurate than ironsights... well, i dont think so.

I just think people know and feel ironsights in this game mainly suck and feel more comfortable using crosshairs as the OP said.

You say that it will turn this into a far cry??

well, paradogically enough, the excess of realism and listening to realism whores has decreased and is gonna decrease the realism in the game

Next time listen to CTFERs instead of coopers Bis.

[Victor_S. 0]

I agree with Kyle, how do you make the crosshairs less acurate? Even in ofp where you had to judge a little bit it was still easy to use.  Besides if you cant use your crosshairs in mp then stop playing close quarters maps.  I don't know why you people keep making threads about trivial things like these.  Bis will make patches that deal with real issues like the campaign and flight models.  They won't be taking out features that the majority of the people who play the game enjoy.  So continue ranting against the crosshairs if and other nit picky issuse if it makes you feel better, but I bet you anything that crosshairs are not removed or modified in any way for infantry.

[olemissrebel 0]

This whole thread is garbage...if you don't like the crosshairs, turn the freakin' things off, that's why there's an option.  As far as weapons being too accurate, ie, m249. Have you ever fired one from the prone supported position?  It's a fairly accurate weapon, and you will hit whatever you aim at unless you're a POG.

The only truly unrealistic thing that needs to be worked on that I can think of, besides this being a video game, is the weight of the bravo (m240)  There is NO way one can hold that chunk of medal up to their eye like that in real life, and please, no petty arguements about strength, I am current US Army Infantry.  Carrying a 240 is like carrying a 4 year old, and trying to aim.  For a 'realistic game/simulator' or whatever you'd like to call it to ignore this is flat out ridiculous.

Anyways, as far as the 203 not having crosshairs... the two sights one can use on the 203 are fairly crappy, and it's really not that hard to hit something by guesstimating the range, however, when in combat, that's a whole different story.

I could go ON and ON and ON about what is, and isn't realistic about this game.  You people have to remember, it's a game...not real life.  I would like to see some 'realistic' aspects tweaked, and added, but if you want absolute realism, SIGN UP FOR THE INFANTRY.  Just be glad they've given us what we have now, it's pretty cool if you ask me.

[franze 196]

KyleSarnik, +1 WL for flaming. You can get your point across without resorting to insults and flamebaiting.

[icehollow 0]

moderator close thread please , this is seriously pointless. besides the fact that the crosshairs can be turned off (and serverside as well simply by configuring the difficulty to custom setting or veteran/expert) , Realism mods will be coming out anyway , so stop complaining.

[whisper 0]

Precisely what they need to fix is the new ironsights.

it has too much sway, they are clunky, suck, very user unfriendly, not fluid, it sucks.

they should get rid of weapon swy or get back to 2d ironsights.

If not increase accuracy 100% in ironsight mode+ eliminate weapon recoil in a 75%

Ironsight is 100% accurate, it's the most accurate mode you can have.

All in all, you just have hard time fighting to control the weapon, it seems. Looks like you'd hate FDF mod or WGL :P (or a game like Red Orchestra)

All this only reduces your effective range, period. And ArmA is allready easy enough as a camp-game to not add more to it by giving laser accurate weapon at long range, tyvm.

[celery 8]

The crosshairs could be made a little less accurate by removing the grain that indicates the trajectory of the shot. That will make players a little less aware where their shots go. At the same time I want that silly crosshair jumping away, all it does it create a headache and it can be easily compensated with shakier hands.

[Dallas 9]

I echo what ole said above.

Anyways, as far as the 203 not having crosshairs... the two sights one can use on the 203 are fairly crappy, and it's really not that hard to hit something by guesstimating the range, however, when in combat, that's a whole different story.

What I've know about the M203, I've read on the internet by people claiming to be grenadiers. Ofcause claims does not warrent any authenticity, but most say, like you, these sights are crap and will break off easily. That you soon get acustomed to the trajectory and can land accurate hit, almost without aiming, using eye/hand coordination. These guys seems to be majority, while claims that M203 sights are good for anything are very sparse.

I decided to test it in ArmA(the next best thing) and found it's pretty easy, as long as noone is shooting at you ofcause. I launced fraps, the editor and with 8 rounds of HE and a little luck I touched a window at ~200 meters twice. And I'm no expert. I'm pretty sure with some experience and time ArmA's 203 can be deadly and precise even under fire. I'd like to master it perfectly.

Directed by Stanley Kubric:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M24Ix986UCs

I like to push for realism and more. I don't miss the sore feet or the undigged trenches. But I do like a game with a learning curve and challenges. I do like that experience count, mastering the gameplay. I don't like twitching with arcade gameplay, the majority of FPS already cater to that audience. I'd like to ArmA to keep a broad appeal to various preferences, but without compromizing it's original aim: A realistic combat simulation. I either use my sights or I fire zoomed so I can correct my bead, based on tracers and ricochets.

I guess they could dumb down cadet to pure CS and keep veteran real, but it would take developer hours away from more important issues. I don't like BF2's pace or arcade gameplay, ergo homie don't play BF2.

[Rune 0]

Of course the crosshairs could be made less accurate, don't be silly. All it requires is for it to be placed in a different place than where the player thinks the gun is pointing It is way simple to do, just randomly offset it from the real gun direction and re-randomise the offset after each shot or burst.

And about turning the crosshairs off entirely serverside, that could be a serious problem for someone using TractIR - it is not as simple as "if you don't like it dont use it". The crosshair gives valuable feedback, that in real life would be available to you through other means than visual cues, but with those not being present, visual cues are, by far, the best alternative.

[wamingo 1]

The ironsight gives you a slight bit more zoom so it has a slight advantage there. Of course it has some disadvantage on the viewable area and that it takes time to load up and orient yourself and stuff.

After some 10 mins trying with the m4 I can pretty much hit targets up to 300m without sight, from standing position, within very few shots. Isn't that a little excessive for an unsighted shot? I've never yielded a real weapon so I can't say what's realistic or not, but then at least from a balance point of view I'd have to say the crosshair is too accurate.

An experienced CTF player or so would probably never have to use the ironsights.

Ok so you can disable it, but you know that's not likely going to happen much (MP of course). Without the crosshair you need a lot of practice to know even the general direction that you're aiming.

[whisper 0]

Of course the crosshairs could be made less accurate, don't be silly. All it requires is for it to be placed in a different place than where the player thinks the gun is pointing It is way simple to do, just randomly offset it from the real gun direction and re-randomise the offset after each shot or burst.

Well, in this case I would personnaly prefer simply having the gun's Line of Fire indicator removed, and only keep the LoS indicator, like suggested above.

It would only give you a general indicator as to where you aim once you stop, less precise depending on your breath and health condition.

And it can be done easily in a mod or addon, I guess.

[simba 0]

I also think the crosshair could be easily made

less accurate , if it has a circular shape , since nobody can determine precisely where the center is , aiming gets unaccurate.

Maybe a very blurry point would do the job as well.

[Rune 0]

Well, in this case I would personnaly prefer simply having the gun's Line of Fire indicator removed, and only keep the LoS indicator, like suggested above.

That would make sense and would satisfy people looking for extra visual cues as to the gun direction.