Please fix the AI

[simba 0]

if arma AI is better than ofp Ai , It's not obvious .

*helo won't attack soldiers (worst than ofp , maybe config related).

*soldiers hardly find their way.

*you engage them , they don't engage you.

*they don't hide or search for cover.

*they hit the floor, way too often.

*they hardly stay in formation, except in desert area.

*AI car driver , when ordered to turn , first slow down , then turn .

and the list goes on...

[Maddmatt 1]

Erm, I used to write video games years back in ye olde assembler days..... its still available if you google... so I know how AI works, to an extent

Oh yeah and I wrote the AI for the Zombie Mod.... (not much AI needed for brain dead humans, right enough, but still they have to prioritise targets, know when to attack)

Quote[/b] ]

What scripts did you code for OFP???

Plenty of stuff, most was already done in a different way. I never released any of it. Modified configs and scripted some effects. I made a burning vehicle effect, which unlike many others, did not lag when you had 5 burning vehicles. I had my own little mod with loads of scripts and functions - mostly effects like smoke and fire damage, tracers, changed sound effects and got the AI to use weapons a bit better such as using the M60 at it's full firing rate. Never finished it though.

Quote[/b] ]

You'll defend ArmA to the death won't you? You're inventing behaviour that doesn't exist in the game.

The AI tend to avoid open areas, oh really? So, how come in the examples listed above the AI just sit there??

They are clearly not in combat mode. In OFP (only got the ArmA demo) they would use forests and areas with bushes/trees instead of attacking in the open. Of course they don't run for cover in safe mode . I'm not saying ArmA AI is amazing, I was hoping it would be better - it's just not as bad as you make it out to be.

Quote[/b] ]

Finding your way from A to B over a map isn't difficult to write and the A* algorithm (or derivative from it) that does it is already familiar to many games developers, so whats so special there?

I don't know much about programming, so I don't know how to respond to that .

Quote[/b] ]

Matt, I don't believe this magical ArmA AI you talk about. Why don't you place an AI squad without AT in a field next to a forest, start shooting at them with a tank, and lets see how many of them take cover in the forest, shall we? Ramp their skill up to max too.

Ok, send me your copy of ArmA . I wont pay for it until the 505 version is out.

ArmA AI isn't perfect, but remember that R6V AI wouldn't work in ArmA. The environments are not as complex, how hard is the tactical side of that game for the player? Go to cover and shoot a group of morons waiting to get shot. I'm playing it on the realistic difficulty and I don't see the tactical side of the game being very hard. The AI just run for cover and shoot at you. If you are in certain positions they will flank you from a certain direction.

Now as I said, play terrorist hunt mode where the map isn't so linear and you will see how simple the AI in R6V really is.

I realise this discussion of ours is offtopic, but it's pretty obvious where the AI problems are in ArmA so there really isn't a huge amount to discuss about it .

[Heatseeker 0]

I understand that the a.i. is not perfect but unlike some claims here its not bad and i cant think of any other a.i. that would perform this well in a open, diverse and huge game like this.

Aren't you interested in pointing out things that don't work and have to be fixed ? Not perfect is fine and enough for you ?

Concretely I think we will get eventually a patch when EURO/US AA will be released in February and many bugs will be ironed out.

I'd like to see some AI problems fixed with that patch. I don't know how many patches we will get later ...

This topic started out has a rant, the Arma a.i. is not much diferent from OPF's, if you expect perfection you are setting up for disapointment, there is no perfect a.i. and no patch will make the a.i. behave perfectly... you can script it to behave like you think it should using several comands but that requires some more advanced editing knowledge.

About that test of yours (the LOS bug) i would try to replicate it in a less object dense location instead of a town. Did you actually moved there or were the units placed exactly like that in the editor? You might be reporting a minor bug since its not very likely for a mission to start with the player 50 or 100 meters away from the opfor..

[sorrow 0]

I was able to reproduce the LOS / invisibility issue with a distance of 47,5 meters, on a straight road. See screenshot.

http://www.storage01.net/test3.jpg

Other findings:

--------------

1) this issue is related to infantry units. Vehicles are usually spotted without problems.

2) It seems to be somewhat related also to the range of weapons: snipers have longer firing range and they can spot opponents from greater distance.

PLZ, can you people confirm this issue ?

Provide feedback here if possible.

2ND .ZIP TEST-CASE

Well, I've tested this and I can confirm the issue. AI simply can't spot each other for some reason...

I also had issues with ai spoting each other earlier in my own missions. (btw they were not simply placed close to each other at the start of the mission)...

I did some more tests with this "mission".

units were set to randomly patrol the area.

in order to spot each other they need to get a bit closer but it's not realistic

[fabrizio_t 58]

Quote[/b] ]This topic started out has a rant, the Arma a.i. is not much diferent from OPF's, if you expect perfection you are setting up for  disapointment, there is no perfect a.i. and no patch will make the a.i. behave perfectly... you can script it to behave like you think it should using several comands but that requires some more advanced editing knowledge.

I dont' think that telling that AA AI (2007) should be different and significantly better than OFP AI (2002) has to be classified as a rant. On the contrary i think it's common sense.

I don't think AA AI should be perfect, but i'm expecting at least that the major AI glitches of OFP are being somewhat adressed and fixed in its "sequel "AA, five years later.

Quote[/b] ]About that test of yours (the LOS bug) i would try to replicate it in a less object dense location instead of a town.

It's easier to track bugs where they are more evident, normally.

Quote[/b] ]Did you actually moved there or were the units placed exactly like that in the editor? You might be reporting a minor bug since its not very likely for a mission to start with the player 50 or 100 meters away from the opfor...

The example i provided is a test case showing an issue i've noticed while actually trying to code missions. The test case is the demonstration, not the issue itself, as i said before.

[KeyCat 131]

if arma AI is better than ofp Ai , It's not obvious .

I probably should have emphasized the words "limited testing". My (again) limited tests so far showed me following improvements over OFP and I probably looked/focused on other things than you did:

- Enemy AI now have proper hearing and will hear and react to nearby gunfire.

- Enemy AI helicopters no longer have access to that "uber-radar" and won't kill you within a second after you entered a vehicle. It's now possible to survive and even escape in a vehicle even if an enemy helicopter are in the vincinity (I do agree that there seems to be something hindering enemy AI helis to engage infantry).

- You are now able to slow down advancing enemy infantry squads by using suppressive fire with MG's.

- Enemy AI do enagage and advance if they detects you and also try to hunt you down also after quite some time.

- Enemy AI is now using their MG's and GL's if they spot you to try to get you over longer ranges.

- Enemy AI now have less tendency to hit you with one single bullet from an AK/M16. They still can but not as often as in OFP and for me thats OK since it should be dangerous to meet proffesional (AI) soldiers. If you still don't like it then lower the skill slider.

- Enemy AI groups now automaticly support each other if they are nearby (probably have to do with their proper hearing).

- ...

Is it perfect? No. Are there bugs/issues? Sure. Will it get improved in future pacthes? Hopefully.

Just for the record: I'm not a game/simulator developer just an average simulator fan that prefers realistic games/simulators over other "run-and-gun" types of games.

/KC

[NeMeSiS 11]

Ok right now it stands like this:

ArmA AI:

+makes tactical decisions (retreating, flanking, covering eachother while moving (only in combat mode))

+squad behaviour

-bad pathfinding (better then OFP, but still afraid of objects)

-almost never takes cover/takes too long before they are in cover

(they do it sometimes, and in that case they (yes they really do take cover, let me extract a small part from the formation.fsm)):

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">    /*%FSM<STATE "Check_forcover

   {

     name = "Check_for__cover";

     init = /*%FSM<STATEINIT""">*/"_hideFrom = _this getHideFrom _enemy;" \n "_objectWhereHide = _this findCover [(position _this), _hideFrom, 20];" \n "" \n "" \n "" \n "if (_debug) then " \n "{" \n " _partArray set [6, _up];" \n " _partArray set [12, _red];" \n " _partArray set [18, _vehicle];" \n " _source setParticleParams _partArray;" \n "" \n " _partArray set [6, _neutral];" \n " drop _partArray;" \n "};"/*%FSM</STATEINIT""">*/;

     class Links

     {

       /*%FSM<LINK "Cover">*/

       class Cover

       {

         priority = 1.000000;

         to="Go_to_cover";

         condition=/*%FSM<CONDITION""">*/"!(isNull _objectWhereHide)"/*%FSM</CONDITION""">*/;

         action=/*%FSM<ACTION""">*/""/*%FSM</ACTION""">*/;

       };

EDIT: Just realised this, are those all just comments? all the /*'s confuse me, i cant see what is supposed to do what (everything seems to be comments in this .fsm

GRAW/Vegas/HL2 AI:

+takes cover

+reacts fast

-cant really do anything beyond taking cover and shooting back.

The only good AI ive seen is in Far Cry, they do work as a squad (search for you etc). However, when under fire they all go rambo which is quite dissapointing.

If i had to choose between ArmA or GRAW/Vegas/HL2 AI, i would choose the ArmA AI, i would choose for ArmA, its just much better suited for this game. In the other games the developers never had to bother to make any proper squad behaviour or whatever because of the small maps, but if you would use that AI in ArmA then the game would become very boring. (image that the only thing that the AI would do is sit behind a car and shoot back, do you want to play that game for another 4 years? I prefer being hunted by the current AI)

[Zombie_Mod 0]

Ok, send me your copy of ArmA . I wont pay for it until the 505 version is out.

MadMatt, how can you talk about ArmA AI if you don't actually have the game??? WTF!!!!!

Demo != full game mate.

Jesus Christ I've been arguing all this time with some bloke who doesn't even have the game

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

[Maddmatt 1]

Ok, send me your copy of ArmA . I wont pay for it until the 505 version is out.

MadMatt, how can you talk about ArmA AI if you don't actually have the game??? WTF!!!!!

Demo != full game mate.

Jesus Christ I've been arguing all this time with some bloke who doesn't even have the game

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

There is the COOP mission, and OFP. I don't need ArmA to show me how basic the AI in Rainbow 6 Vegas is. I played OFP alot and used the mission editor so I know the behaviour. And I can see the differences in the demo.

And why would the AI in the demo be different to the full game?

[fabrizio_t 58]

More elaboration about the issue: the smoking gun ...

1 BLUFOR unit advance towards 1 OPFOR unit.

I'm expecting mixed results here: sometimes BLUFOR killed, sometimes OPFOR killed as a result of the clash, since there is no cover involved and movement should not be perceived as a penalty - keep in mind i am talking about short distances and clear LOS.

Guess what ? 10 times out of 10 The steady unit kills the advancing unit. And that's not the interesting news, BLUFOR maybe can accidentally kill OPFOR, but there's more ...

The advancing unit spots the enemy way later and fires way later - the steady unit is still "stealthy" till the distance is insanely short. When BLUFOR finally "sees" the enemy and stops, go prone ad fire he's almost dead. Look at the times shown in the chat message: BLUFOR sees OPFOR a whole 1.5 second later on my machine ... a HUGE difference.

Obviously the test can be reversed, with OPFOR moving. In that case you'll get exactly the opposite result.

Movement = insane penalization in AA at short distance.

To me this is a MAJOR PROBLEM, unless you don't plan to have your men advancing through cities ...

TEST CASE 3 - the smoking gun - ZIP file - EDIT: FIXED SIDECHAT TEXT!!

[Col. Faulkner 0]

The "not taking cover" thing is probably related to the dearth

of "cover objects" on most of the map. Away from built-up

areas, there isn't much except some trees and those strange

huge boulders. I have rarely ever seen them actually using

any of these, however.

One thing that annoys me about the AI is that even with

all settings maxed and in "combat mode"  they are too

incautious. They jump up in the open in the middle of

firefights far too much and charge recklessly towards you

in ones and twos.

They should actually be much harder to kill with small

arms fire than they in fact are - sometimes it can be a real

turkey shoot in the game, with casualties like a WW1

battlefield!

[NeMeSiS 11]

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

Starts with the 'bounding overwatch'.

Best example of flanking is seen in the very last second (enemy soldier), and in 1:59 (RACS soldier, down right) (sorry, im using FRAPS so i have to restart the recording every 30 seconds, but i forgot the last time so you cant see the end)

at 2:07 you see a soldier running towards the left side of the town, however instead of flanking he runs towards his squad leader (possibly to cover him?))

This is with AI skill on 0.85

(If you still think the soldiers are running everywhere 'accidentally' i can try making a film out in the open, its better to see that they are flanking, however they usually get shot down before getting 5 meters away from their squad )

EDIT: Forgot the link:linky

[sorrow 0]

More elaboration about the issue: the smoking gun ...

1 BLUFOR unit advance towards 1 OPFOR unit.

I'm expecting mixed results here: sometimes BLUFOR killed, sometimes OPFOR killed as a result of the clash, since there is no cover involved and movement should not be perceived as a penalty - keep in mind i am talking about short distances and clear LOS.

Guess what ? 10 times out of 10 The steady unit kills the advancing unit. And that's not the interesting news, BLUFOR maybe can accidentally kill OPFOR, but there's more ...

The advancing unit spots the enemy way later and fires way later - the steady unit is still "stealthy" till the distance is insanely short. When BLUFOR finally "sees" the enemy and stops, go prone ad fire he's almost dead. Look at the times shown in the chat message: BLUFOR sees OPFOR a whole 1.5 second later on my machine ... a HUGE difference.

Obviously the test can be reversed, with OPFOR moving. In that case you'll get exactly the opposite result.

Movement = insane penalization in AA at short distance.

To me this is a MAJOR PROBLEM, unless you don't plan to have your men advancing through cities ...

TEST CASE 3 - the smoking gun - ZIP file - EDIT: FIXED SIDECHAT TEXT!!

http://www.storage01.net/test7.jpg

yes, I get the same results and I think this is a serious issue.

While I can understand some slight penalty for moving... in this test BLUFOR should spot the enemy much earlier but instead he still blindly runs to the enemy position and dies...

this could probably be one of the main reasons the AI looks so careless in combat

[fabrizio_t 58]

Test case revised (see my previous message).

Now it shows also the distance at which each unit spots the other one. BLUFOR unit, the moving one, spots the OPFOR unit only at 54-55 meters, while the steady OPFOR unit sees him from >70 meters.

BlUFOR detects OPFOR 2.5-3 seconds later. The bigger the initial distance, the more the delay. We are obviously talking about short distances,  around 100 meters max.

BLUFOR is on "combat" mode, "limited" speed, "engage / fire at will". Feel free to test different settings.

TEST CASE 4 - smoking gun reloaded - ZIP file

This issue can obliterate the balance of any infantry tactics in the game. Once solved AI will behave for sure way better.

If not going to be fixed this flaw will ruin the game, at least for me.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

Ok, send me your copy of ArmA . I wont pay for it until the 505 version is out.

MadMatt, how can you talk about ArmA AI if you don't actually have the game??? WTF!!!!!

Demo != full game mate.

Jesus Christ I've been arguing all this time with some bloke who doesn't even have the game

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

There is the COOP mission, and OFP. I don't need ArmA to show me how basic the AI in Rainbow 6 Vegas is. I played OFP alot and used the mission editor so I know the behaviour. And I can see the differences in the demo.

And why would the AI in the demo be different to the full game?

Erm, because the demo was the one released most recently, and is the latest build of the ArmA engine that the rest of us don't have? I bet they tweaked that demo a lot before release...

You'll be saying the e3 demo of duke nukem forever 5 years ago is the same as the game to be released, eh?

[Zombie_Mod 0]

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

Starts with the 'bounding overwatch'.

Best example of flanking is seen in the very last second (enemy soldier), and in 1:59 (RACS soldier, down right) (sorry, im using FRAPS so i have to restart the recording every 30 seconds, but i forgot the last time so you cant see the end)

at 2:07 you see a soldier running towards the left side of the town, however instead of flanking he runs towards his squad leader (possibly to cover him?))

This is with AI skill on 0.85

(If you still think the soldiers are running everywhere 'accidentally' i can try making a film out in the open, its better to see that they are flanking, however they usually get shot down before getting 5 meters away from their squad )

EDIT: Forgot the link:linky

The BLUFOR AI looked like it was following a waypoint. I can see nothing in that video that indicated even the slightest shred of "cover", unless of course walking through a hedge on a waypoint counts as that....

Put an enemy squad in the open, and get an M1A1 opening up on em.

Have the M1A1 and enemy in the open, lets see what happens. I bet they will sit like budgies on a perch.

Also give us the map coordinates so we can replicate your "findings", just in case you do a wee bit of scripting to "help" the AI on their way...

[Maddmatt 1]

Erm, because the demo was the one released most recently, and is the latest build of the ArmA engine that the rest of us don't have? I bet they tweaked that demo a lot before release...

You'll be saying the e3 demo of duke nukem forever 5 years ago is the same as the game to be released, eh?

The demo is based off the 1.02 version of the game (named version 1.03 so they can't attempt to join in multiplayer I guess). And how is a 5 year old preview of DNF relative? The demo was released shortly after the 1.02 patch for ArmA. Why would the demo get completely redone AI? They act like what I've seen from the full game.

And it doesn't change the fact that the R6V AI is not as amazing as you claim it to be. They don't hunt you down. Also for the 3rd time have you seen them in terrorist hunt mode? They suck there.

[fideco 1]

In this post i have read really constructive observations in order to improve the AI in the game.

What really hurts me is that no Bis programmer takes part in the discussion.

Their lack is criticabile:they would have to pay more attention to the comunity and share opinions.

But this skill is rare and it seems not to belong to the mission of this software house.

I hope to be wrong....

A good example of positive behaviour is every day given by Sport Interactive programmers (www.sigames.com) in their forums and as you know FM series has become the best management football simulation around (with a beautifoul AI)..

I hope BIS say something about this post.

Cheers

[NeMeSiS 11]

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

Starts with the 'bounding overwatch'.

Best example of flanking is seen in the very last second (enemy soldier), and in 1:59 (RACS soldier, down right) (sorry, im using FRAPS so i have to restart the recording every 30 seconds, but i forgot the last time so you cant see the end)

at 2:07 you see a soldier running towards the left side of the town, however instead of flanking he runs towards his squad leader (possibly to cover him?))

This is with AI skill on 0.85

(If you still think the soldiers are running everywhere 'accidentally' i can try making a film out in the open, its better to see that they are flanking, however they usually get shot down before getting 5 meters away from their squad )

EDIT: Forgot the link:linky

The BLUFOR AI looked like it was following a waypoint. I can see nothing in that video that indicated even the slightest shred of "cover", unless of course walking through a hedge on a waypoint counts as that....

Put an enemy squad in the open, and get an M1A1 opening up on em.

Have the M1A1 and enemy in the open, lets see what happens. I bet they will sit like budgies on a perch.

Also give us the map coordinates so we can replicate your "findings", just in case you do a wee bit of scripting to "help" the AI on their way...

No scripting, one move waypoint ("combat") for the RACs, one guard waypoint (no other options) (redfor group1), one dismissed waypoint ("safe") (redfor group2)

Its on 'desert island' (forgot the real name, but the small island, not sahrani)

Note that i never mentioned cover, you said 'flanking', i showed you flanking

If you want i can send you the mission file

And yes, i know what happens when i put an m1a1 in front of a squad without waypoints, thats what we have waypoints for: activating the AI we need. (we dont attack with a dismissed waypoint, and we dont defend with a move waypoint, pretty obvious, even though both examples can be done, it may not give the best effect)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Please all share test cases when possible. It's just a matter of some Kbytes.

Please also check my latest test case about LOS bug. I think i've really isolated a bug, but i need your feedback to be sure!

So far only a few people were kind enough to support me in this analysis.

Thx.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

Erm, because the demo was the one released most recently, and is the latest build of the ArmA engine that the rest of us don't have? I bet they tweaked that demo a lot before release...

You'll be saying the e3 demo of duke nukem forever 5 years ago is the same as the game to be released, eh?

The demo is based off the 1.02 version of the game (named version 1.03 so they can't attempt to join in multiplayer I guess). And how is a 5 year old preview of DNF relative? The demo was released shortly after the 1.02 patch for ArmA. Why would the demo get completely redone AI? They act like what I've seen from the full game.

And it doesn't change the fact that the R6V AI is not as amazing as you claim it to be. They don't hunt you down. Also for the 3rd time have you seen them in terrorist hunt mode? They suck there.

I'm not bothered about terrorist hunt mode. The AI in the game suits me.

I mentioned to you about company of heroes. That simulates battles on a large scale AND the AI is more than adequate, yet you are silent on that.

Anyway why should they give the demo version 1.03? What happens when the 1.03 patch of ArmA comes out

Nah it wasn't named 1.03 just for a demo mate, I am telling ya that is the latest build with bugs fixed, not the 1.02 we are all playing.

"Why release a demo newer than the live version?" you ask. Pretty obvious given the recent crap reviews innit?!!!! 55% for a reason, matey

[Zombie_Mod 0]

As for you ofpforum, show me this flanking in action. Get me a FRAPs video and I'll believe you. In fact show me any video that exhibits advanced AI, and I'll reply to you with a video of mine from the "Armored Fist" mission where the friendly soldiers get slaughtered in a minute. Not so smart there were they.

Starts with the 'bounding overwatch'.

Best example of flanking is seen in the very last second (enemy soldier), and in 1:59 (RACS soldier, down right) (sorry, im using FRAPS so i have to restart the recording every 30 seconds, but i forgot the last time so you cant see the end)

at 2:07 you see a soldier running towards the left side of the town, however instead of flanking he runs towards his squad leader (possibly to cover him?))

This is with AI skill on 0.85

(If you still think the soldiers are running everywhere 'accidentally' i can try making a film out in the open, its better to see that they are flanking, however they usually get shot down before getting 5 meters away from their squad )

EDIT: Forgot the link:linky

The BLUFOR AI looked like it was following a waypoint. I can see nothing in that video that indicated even the slightest shred of "cover", unless of course walking through a hedge on a waypoint counts as that....

Put an enemy squad in the open, and get an M1A1 opening up on em.

Have the M1A1 and enemy in the open, lets see what happens. I bet they will sit like budgies on a perch.

Also give us the map coordinates so we can replicate your "findings", just in case you do a wee bit of scripting to "help" the AI on their way...

No scripting, one move waypoint ("combat") for the RACs, one guard waypoint (no other options) (redfor group1), one dismissed waypoint ("safe") (redfor group2)

Its on 'desert island' (forgot the real name, but the small island, not sahrani)

Note that i never mentioned cover, you said 'flanking', i showed you flanking

If you want i can send you the mission file

And yes, i know what happens when i put an m1a1 in front of a squad without waypoints, thats what we have waypoints for: activating the AI we need. (we dont attack with a dismissed waypoint, and we dont defend with a move waypoint, pretty obvious, even though both examples can be done, it may not give the best effect)

Oh right so now you say the AI don't withdraw and cover each other when they face a tank? But wait, you said earlier on they will cover each other, take cover, and tactically withdraw. Hmm thats interesting ofpforum....

Post a link to that mission please.

Cheers

[NeMeSiS 11]

I mentioned to you about company of heroes. That simulates battles on a large scale AND the AI is more than adequate, yet you are silent on that.

Its an RTS, its not comparable.

(and it would suck for a FPS, those squads always stick to eachother)

EDIT:

AI retreats after a certain amount of casualties, same as OFP. tata

And please stop changing my words, you saw my video, they are covering eachother, however i gave them a move+combat waypoint (they only cover eachother in combat, this is realistic, who moves like that when there is no danger near?)

And like i said, the taking cover doesnt work properly (bugged/not properly adjusted/whatever?) (ill see if i can make a vid tonight), but i showed you the .fsm, it is there.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">version=11;

class Mission

{

addOns[]=

{

"cacharacters",

"desert"

};

addOnsAuto[]=

{

"cacharacters",

"desert"

};

randomSeed=14091779;

class Intel

{

startWeather=0.100000;

forecastWeather=0.300000;

year=2007;

month=6;

day=7;

hour=8;

};

class Groups

{

items=4;

class Item0

{

side="GUER";

class Vehicles

{

items=9;

class Item0

{

position[]={2708.789307,16.655188,2821.909180};

azimut=66.775078;

id=0;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SquadLeaderG";

leader=1;

rank="SERGEANT";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item1

{

position[]={2705.378906,16.603725,2817.178223};

azimut=66.775078;

id=1;

side="GUER";

vehicle="TeamLeaderG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item2

{

position[]={2706.166016,16.629705,2815.339844};

azimut=66.775078;

id=2;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGMG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item3

{

position[]={2706.955078,16.655724,2813.504395};

azimut=66.775078;

id=3;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item4

{

position[]={2707.744385,16.687063,2811.665527};

azimut=66.775078;

id=4;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGAT";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item5

{

position[]={2708.534912,16.720221,2809.825439};

azimut=66.775078;

id=5;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGMG";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item6

{

position[]={2709.320801,16.730833,2807.988770};

azimut=66.775078;

id=6;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGB";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item7

{

position[]={2710.110352,16.740993,2806.151611};

azimut=66.775078;

id=7;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGB";

skill=1.000000;

};

class Item8

{

position[]={2710.897705,16.748079,2804.312256};

azimut=66.775078;

id=8;

side="GUER";

vehicle="SoldierGB";

skill=1.000000;

};

};

class Waypoints

{

items=1;

class Item0

{

position[]={2881.699463,17.137100,2874.873535};

combat="COMBAT";

class Effects

{

};

showWP="NEVER";

};

};

};

class Item1

{

side="EAST";

class Vehicles

{

items=5;

class Item0

{

position[]={2882.171875,17.138409,2873.837891};

id=9;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SquadleaderE";

leader=1;

rank="SERGEANT";

skill=0.466667;

};

class Item1

{

position[]={2885.171875,17.166136,2868.837891};

id=10;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEMG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=0.333333;

};

class Item2

{

position[]={2887.171875,17.211138,2868.837891};

id=11;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEB";

skill=0.200000;

};

class Item3

{

position[]={2889.171875,17.256140,2868.837891};

id=12;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEMG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=0.333333;

};

class Item4

{

position[]={2891.171875,17.301048,2868.837891};

id=13;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEB";

skill=0.200000;

};

};

class Waypoints

{

items=1;

class Item0

{

position[]={2881.450439,17.120066,2873.603516};

type="DISMISS";

combat="SAFE";

class Effects

{

};

showWP="NEVER";

};

};

};

class Item2

{

side="EAST";

class Vehicles

{

items=5;

class Item0

{

position[]={2879.527344,17.101473,2889.199707};

id=14;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SquadleaderE";

leader=1;

rank="SERGEANT";

skill=0.466667;

};

class Item1

{

position[]={2882.527344,17.148846,2884.199707};

id=15;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEMG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=0.333333;

};

class Item2

{

position[]={2884.527344,17.166845,2884.199707};

id=16;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEB";

skill=0.200000;

};

class Item3

{

position[]={2886.527344,17.184847,2884.199707};

id=17;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEMG";

rank="CORPORAL";

skill=0.333333;

};

class Item4

{

position[]={2888.527344,17.202847,2884.199707};

id=18;

side="EAST";

vehicle="SoldierEB";

skill=0.200000;

};

};

class Waypoints

{

items=1;

class Item0

{

position[]={2879.045654,17.107512,2887.375977};

type="GUARD";

class Effects

{

};

showWP="NEVER";

};

};

};

class Item3

{

side="CIV";

class Vehicles

{

items=1;

class Item0

{

position[]={2710.999268,16.951674,2782.990479};

azimut=-6.930457;

id=19;

side="CIV";

vehicle="Civilian";

player="PLAYER COMMANDER";

leader=1;

skill=1.000000;

init="this exec ""camera.sqs""";

};

};

};

};

};

class Intro

{

addOns[]=

{

"desert"

};

addOnsAuto[]=

{

"desert"

};

randomSeed=3976195;

class Intel

{

startWeather=0.100000;

forecastWeather=0.300000;

year=2007;

month=6;

day=7;

hour=8;

};

};

class OutroWin

{

addOns[]=

{

"desert"

};

addOnsAuto[]=

{

"desert"

};

randomSeed=9370627;

class Intel

{

startWeather=0.100000;

forecastWeather=0.300000;

year=2007;

month=6;

day=7;

hour=8;

};

};

class OutroLoose

{

addOns[]=

{

"desert"

};

addOnsAuto[]=

{

"desert"

};

randomSeed=15566339;

class Intel

{

startWeather=0.100000;

forecastWeather=0.300000;

year=2007;

month=6;

day=7;

hour=8;

};

};

[Heatseeker 0]

In this post i have read really constructive observations in order to improve the AI in the game.

What really hurts me is that no Bis programmer takes part in the discussion.

Their lack is criticabile:they would have to pay more attention to the comunity and share opinions.

But this skill is rare and it seems not to belong to the mission of this software house.

I hope to be wrong....

A good example of positive behaviour is every day given by Sport Interactive programmers (www.sigames.com) in their forums and as you know FM series has become the best management football simulation around (with a beautifoul AI)..

I hope BIS say something about this post.

Cheers

There are already many things that didnt make it because there was not enough time to implement... if they spent more time reading forums (and digging thru alot of nonsense too) that would mean even less time to work on the game.. BIS were atleast able to introduce some features requested by the comunity (interactive water, better building destruction, new vehicle classes, multiple gun positions, etc) but not all.

And in case you forgot today is saturday .

[Zombie_Mod 0]

I mentioned to you about company of heroes. That simulates battles on a large scale AND the AI is more than adequate, yet you are silent on that.

Its an RTS, its not comparable.

(and it would suck for a FPS, those squads always stick to eachother)

How do you mean an RTS? It's an RTS with FPS elements, you can take 3rd person view if required.

Besides the only difference between an RTS of this nature and an FPS is 3rd person control of an individual unit.

I could say a Company of Heroes type game could be done in ArmA using the Chain of Command engine??

So, given the blurred lines between the 2 genres, esp 2 games released around the same time, the AI of the enemy should be available for comparison, correct?

Both AI in FPS and RTS are programmed to attack the enemy. COH AI is doing it a damn sight better.