Debug Console

[Hawke 0]

i take it you only share it with people you know personally?

[kronzky 5]

It seems that this great tool isn't quite getting the attention it deserves...

It took me a while too, after first reading about it, to realize how useful, and what a time-saver this console can be.

I first thought "nice, but I can just check my variables via a chat command, or put in a trigger whenever I need to change a value in the middle of a mission". But then I tried it out, and it just made life soo much easier. Stop my mission, change or check some values, and then continue with the mission. No fuss, no mess, clean and simple. No more dozen triggers just so I can switch things on and off during a run. No flood of debug lines, just so I can see one particular variable at one particular time. Now I can do it all instantaneously, and whenever I want, via the console.

And, of course, the camera feature: How much nicer and easier it is to take a good screenshot with the camera function available all the time, in every little test mission you make. Another must have...

So... If you do any serious scripting - give this thing a try, and you will never go back to working without it!!!.

[sickboy 13]

It seems that this great tool isn't quite getting the attention it deserves...

I second that!

[mattxr 9]

It seems that this great tool isn't quite getting the attention it deserves...

It took me a while too, after first reading about it, to realize how useful, and what a time-saver this console can be.

I first thought "nice, but I can just check my variables via a chat command, or put in a trigger whenever I need to change a value in the middle of a mission". But then I tried it out, and it just made life soo much easier. Stop my mission, change or check some values, and then continue with the mission. No fuss, no mess, clean and simple. No more dozen triggers just so I can switch things on and off during a run. No flood of debug lines, just so I can see one particular variable at one particular time. Now I can do it all instantaneously, and whenever I want, via the console.

And, of course, the camera feature: How much nicer and easier it is to take a good screenshot with the camera function available all the time, in every little test mission you make. Another must have...

So... If you do any serious scripting - give this thing a try, and you will never go back to working without it!!!.

i third that.. It means that when i make my MP missions i can release them bug free becuase when i go to do a final test i use this to check to make sure all commands/values and everything work.

[Hawke 0]

But obviously one needs to belong to the "elite" to get it. That kind of attitude is getting worse and worse.

[Serclaes 0]

No, the debug console is an open door for cheaters if they get the source code, thats why it is kept among trusted people.

[SyB 0]

Quote[/b] ]Serclaes

No, the debug console is an open door for cheaters if they get the source code, thats why it is kept among trusted people.

, and how would they (cheaters) managed to accomplish that?

[kronzky 5]

Well... You don't really expect to see the instructions here on how to cheat, do you?

[SyB 0]

lol, no

i mean the stra_debug.pbo would have to be in the Server \Addons folder and on the 'cheaters' client computer, and possibly on every other clients computer.

And, being a game server Admin I personally wouldn't be putting a debugging.pbo into the main/public gaming server, maybe on our private one and or a test one.

The only way this console could be used to cheat is if you can effect variables on the other clients or the server.

And, you have to know what those variables are called.

And there is no way you can communicate to the other clients in an MP game except through the server.

Sure, for your persistent battlefield mission that goes on for days at a time you're going to implement network service array's to manage the publicVariables then those would be 'accessible' to anyone that has the 'same'[\u] debugger.pbo as what the server has...

But, this would be easily thwarted by changing your NS array names and/or management in the debugger.pbo on your server if the SA wanted this or a similar one in there in the first place.

There is no scripting command to query the publicVariable namespace on the server for a list of currently declared variables. (unless I missed that one in the biki)

So, I'm really at a loss to see how this or similar debuggers could be even remotely used as a method to cheat.

[kronzky 5]

Quote[/b] ]So, I'm really at a loss to see how this or similar debuggers could be even remotely used as a method to cheat.

Good...

[HulkingUnicorn 0]

Well, this (saying no debugger can be used to cheat) doesn't seem to fit with my story...

I sent a more thorough report to gaia by pm, but one guy spawned vehicles and stuff on one server... And I'm pretty sure the guy running the server didn't place the addon there...

[mattxr 9]

that doesn't mean he was using the debug console? unless he said so :s .. i dunno i just use it for personal mission testing and debugging and to me thats all that matters, its perfect.

[HulkingUnicorn 0]

He didn't state specifically what he was using... but he *claimed* he could execute any code - so it is some sort of command line.

Any ideas how to block stuff like this on servers or in missions?

[Dwarden 1125]

maybe irrelevent comment so if You wish ignore me ...

elite cheat coders don't need "such" help as they already 3 steps in future ...

IF You accept this sad fact then You may get chance to fight theirs work ...

and about trying solve this by "trusted" releases ...

no matter how hard You try leak will happen sooner or later  ...

it's inevitable cycle which repeats in every MP game released to date ...

and fact that ArmA is very scriptable (open) and roots from well documented OFP/OFPR can't made it easier ...

[SyB 0]

Kronzky,

Quote[/b] ]...

lol, hmmm... I only started down this track 'cause Serclaes mentioned that if cheaters had the inner working of the stra_debug.pbo (MP) it would give them fodder for the mill.

What I'm saying is I don't believe that this .pbo or similar is capable of being the basis or allowing for cheating.

It's a handy tool indeed, but that's all.

If you have first hand knowledge (not hersay or rumor) of this type of .pbo being successfully utilized in cheating, then please PM with the word 'affirmative'. And, then I'd have to devote time to working out ways to combat it.

And, for that matter can anyone, provide an 'affirmative' response to me.

I'm saying this tool and similar can not be used to cheat.

If anyone can refute that statement. (Without details of course) then damn is all I can say.

Damn, because that would mean I'd have to devote some time to evaluating whether this area of ArmA would be a potential security threat or whether it could be lived with.

So, all I wanna know is if Serclaes statement has any grounding or was it dramatized a bit.

* If it has grounding then I have to devote time...

* If not then I can go on my happy way using debug consoles asfe in the knowledge they are not potential security holes...

[Leopard2 0]

@Gaia - Thanks. This is a very handy tool. I actually took some time yesterday and enabled it for MP (which is unfortunately rather easy if you know what to look for). It will help Pennywise tremendously during development of his new stuff but has a lot of potential for abuse (cheating). We will be most careful not to let it out...

It's probably safe to assume that if I can do it, the cheaters can do it too, though. :-(

@SyB - As Gaia mentioned from the beginning, this is the perfect cheating tool and I have no doubts that cheaters are already using it or something similar. Pennywise and I actually tested it last night. He was not happy!!! Just think about it... You can execute ANY ArmA command from a convenient console during a SP game. If you could do that during a MP game as well, that would be... should I say BAD?

--

Leopard2 [Produce] - Radishville

[.kju 3244]

Similar stuff has been made by TKC back in OFP.

OFP and ArmA is very easy to abuse if you are into scripting/modding.

Enabled ArmA signatures would stop this debug console too i guess...

[Leopard2 0]

Similar stuff has been made by TKC back in OFP.

OFP and ArmA is very easy to abuse if you are into scripting/modding.

Enabled ArmA signatures would stop this debug console too i guess...

Yeah, that's what I figured, as well.

--

Leopard2 [Produce] - Radishville

[mahuja 12]

i mean the stra_debug.pbo would have to be in the Server \Addons folder and on the 'cheaters' client computer, and possibly on every other clients computer.

And, being a game server Admin I personally wouldn't be putting a debugging.pbo into the main/public gaming server, maybe on our private one and or a test one.

If the mission lists that addon as a dependency, I doubt it will load without it being present on the server, and the server might reject clients that do not have it.

Quote[/b] ]The only way this console could be used to cheat is if you can effect variables on the other clients or the server.

"Affecting variables" is not the only way you can use this app. Creating vehicles, units, and all that shit, is just as big a problem. Anything a scripter can do while making a mission, basically, can be done by this cheater.

Quote[/b] ]

And, you have to know what those variables are called.

mpmissionscache

Quote[/b] ]And there is no way you can communicate to the other clients in an MP game except through the server.

1: Some commands have 'global' effects - createvehicle, for example.

2: There are ways to execute your code on all connected computers. I believe the createunit init line was used already a long while back, in OFP. Other than that, if they run a 'processinit' (don't remember the exact name) loop, which would make that sort of things very easy for the mission maker, would make it similarly easy for the cheater.

Quote[/b] ]Sure, for your persistent ... implement network service array's ...

I don't know the specifics, not even of what you were talking about, but I had the impression that the overall correctness is about as the above.

Quote[/b] ]There is no scripting command to query the publicVariable namespace on the server for a list of currently declared variables. (unless I missed that one in the biki)

So, I'm really at a loss to see how this or similar debuggers could be even remotely used as a method to cheat.

As I said above, mpmissionscache. Any mission you've played online is saved on your computer, so as to spare you from downloading it again. That it allows you to examine those missions is actually a good sideeffect, allowing people to learn from the methods others have used.

(I.e. missions are essentially forced to be open source. Which is a good thing.)

Now, can you make these things work without requiring the mission maker to have enabled them? (Without editing addons, which will be caught by the addon signing stuff, sooner or later.)

If you cannot, then as long as the mission maker removes the stuff that allows its use after he's finished with the debugging phase (before release) it won't be a problem.

(In OFP that would require some call to a function, inclusion of special object, or some addaction init line)

If you can, we're screwed unless the digital signatures are used.

[EricM 0]

Could this be (maybe together with something like TroopMon) a first step toward a real-time mission editor a la VBS2 ?

I mean, if you can execute any kind of command while debugging the game, what prevents you from executing a CreateVehicle while in the 3d view instead of the map view ?

With a dropdown list of standard commands to create Units, cars, aircrafts, boats and triggers, that'd be pretty nice

[moricky 211]

It could be more like VBS1 Instructor rather than VBS2 Real-time mission editor, because there is no way to save the modified mission. However, Instructor in ArmA could be also very useful, especially in multiplayer.

Before ArmA release I thought I could create something like this (remember TOP1? ), but I have no time to do this.

[EricM 0]

Quote[/b] ]It could be more like VBS1 Instructor rather than VBS2 Real-time mission editor,

Ok, I see.

Still, having a roleplaying background myself, I can clearly see the point of having an "admin"/Gamemaster that throw stuff at you, encarnate in AI to make them speak etc...

However, I fear the abuse of such a powerful tool in MP...

[mattxr 9]

Gaia i think this is going to be a great wonder, even though there is a long way to go me and my squad leader were talking about this very tool for MP Commanding just like DM. We were all excited just thinking about it

Good Luck.

[fuc847 0]

is it possible to make a godmode sorta script using this in a SP mission?

i tried typing :

if (damage player>0) then (player setDamage=0)

but when i press "execute" it didnt seem to work, gave me a wrong argument error or soemthing...

I"m asking because i am trying to test my mission without dying all the time.

thanks

[Shadow_Spyder 0]

is it possible to make a godmode sorta script using this in a SP mission?

i tried typing :

if (damage player>0) then (player setDamage=0)

but when i press "execute" it didnt seem to work, gave me a wrong argument error or soemthing...

I"m asking because i am trying to test my mission without dying all the time.

thanks

Easier way to do this is <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">this setcaptive true in your players init field. Enemy wont shoot at you, therefore, you dont die.