Spawning options for Multi Player

[KaiserPanda 0]

The other advantage of a 30-45 second respawn: you have time to do some push-ups (your punishment for dying. idiot. ), contemplate what you did that was dumb and got you killed, and plan for the next go.

[Boudreux 0]

For CTI, I think it would be great to see a Respawn system where you can only come in as reinforcements at the HQ, and only after a Medic has "come in contact" with you. This would make a Paramedic squad viable, flying around the giant island. If you had a squadmate die, you would want to get his body out of there, or protect it until the chopper came.

I'm sure some of you smarter people can flesh this idea out, but I really think it would add a lot to the CTI concept.

[smellyjelly 0]

I like the idea where everyone spawns after a certain about of time, preferably 30-45 seconds, (of course you'd have to be dead for a certain amount of time too, like 5 seconds). This would also help if an enemy was camping our spawn, because then when our how team appears before him, the enemy won't have a chance for survival.

[Metal Heart 0]

1. True “Side†respawn (like group respawn only the groups are linked)

3. Return to play - As actual existing reinforcements via dialog from the Death Cam (Reinforcement groups are applied by the mission designer, as desired, via a single function call. All you guys wanting reinforcements flown in via chopper, here's your support)

7. No restrictions on AIs in the player groups (Again, the biggie for me)

This sounds highly interesting! I've thought about making something similiar for a very long mission with group respawn and AI units that join the group later on if you lose some. But both ways that I came up with had some serious problems (note that I didn't actually try them, just guessed what would happen).

1. Normal base respawn, swap the units when the respawn takes place and deletevehicle the AI unit. Problems with changing all the gear from the AI to the player, like half empty magazines and such. Injuries, sure you can setDammage but it's not easy to have somebodys hands hit. And the biggest problem for some missions, the unit will look different, imagine a sniper or a civilian AI being swapped to a regular soldier model all of the sudden when somebody respawns. Other than that, normal respawn would be very flexible and without risk of getting players stuck as a seagull.

2. Group respawn. A whole lot of problems. Like when a whole group dies at the same time in a vehicle you don't have time to join them to another group for respawns so they will became seagulls and there's no way back to a regular unit then. Or when there's no respawn left in the currect group and you die, you would have to either predict the exact moment of death and join the unit to a different group right before it or have an annoying extra unit in the group at all times. Also the group respawn has some bugs, sometimes it just fails to work for no apparent reason (especially with vehicles).

So. I'm intrested to know do you use group respawn or base respawn?

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

lol the ever so funny debate about respawn being unrealistic. It's just a silly argument. To be realistic you should only play the game once in MP... you die and you're dead. It doesn't really matter if you die and can't respawn in the round or if you have to wait 45 minutes and THEN respawn (other than it being a completely waste of time waiting for the game to end).

It's just a matter of perspective. Respawning is not the same soldier comming back to life... it's reinforcements. In any case... it has nothing to do with realism, considering the other things that logically have to be unrealistic for the game to be fun.

It is also unrealistic that you can't feel pain, won't be truly affraid to die at times. That morale don't play a role in the battle. Also it is really unrealistic that you control the game with a mouse and keyboard!

There are so many unrealistic things which is needed for the game to work. And in my oppinion respawning (or reinforcements) is needed, for the sake of preventing boredom.

The only thing you can talk about in a video game is wether things are believable enough to SEEM realistic. So the job at hand is making respawning (reinforcements) work so it is believable and ADDS to gameplay. Because gameplay is everything...

Realism is a matter of believing... nothing else. Real realism is only found in the real world.

Well, of course you are right,it is a game - nothing more. But I enjoy playing OFP missions without respawn, since then you have to be carefully and plan when to attack and when not to. Sure you can see respawning as reinforcements - but not all missions should have reinforcements (and they aren't always available in real-life neither).

[CanisDEK 1]

Short respawn times suck... the respawn time needs to be long enough for you to feel like waiting (30 secs - 1 min)... but no respawn is just lame imo in such a huge game as ARMA/OPF where you can walk for 10 minutes, die in a second and have to wait 30 minutes to play again.

[4 IN 1 0]

Short respawn times suck... the respawn time needs to be long enough for you to feel like waiting (30 secs - 1 min)... but no respawn is just lame imo in such a huge game as ARMA/OPF where you can walk for 10 minutes, die in a second and have to wait 30 minutes to play again.

thats what we do at most coop game, wait till everyone die, admin #reassign or simply someone finish up the mission, well i kind of used to it, and the seagul mode simply keep you from getting real bored, and the most important thing:you make any stupid mistake and you are OFF to wait some 30 min, but still, everyone have their taste

[coderdfox 0]

Short respawn times suck... the respawn time needs to be long enough for you to feel like waiting (30 secs - 1 min)... but no respawn is just lame imo in such a huge game as ARMA/OPF where you can walk for 10 minutes, die in a second and have to wait 30 minutes to play again.

I guess its good that its all scripted! server can do what ever they want

[sniper pilot 36]

I just hope there will be made gameplay mechanics that reward playing in a squad (like SL spawning promotes squad play in BF2)....

A) They wanted needed someway to promote teamplay in BF2 because the gameplay didnt support it, so they chose the squad leader funtion as compensation...

B) OFP nor Armed Assault needs this to promote teamwork. Its simple dont use teamwork, lose and die... The gameplay needs teamwork...So the reward of teamwork? Again to win and not die...

I hope my sleepless self explained it in an understandable manner for ya...

[smellyjelly 0]

You could have said "Being alone=death", but that works just fine.

[spetznaz14 0]

lol the ever so funny debate about respawn being unrealistic. It's just a silly argument. To be realistic you should only play the game once in MP... you die and you're dead. It doesn't really matter if you die and can't respawn in the round or if you have to wait 45 minutes and THEN respawn (other than it being a completely waste of time waiting for the game to end).

It's just a matter of perspective. Respawning is not the same soldier comming back to life... it's reinforcements. In any case... it has nothing to do with realism, considering the other things that logically have to be unrealistic for the game to be fun.

It is also unrealistic that you can't feel pain, won't be truly affraid to die at times. That morale don't play a role in the battle. Also it is really unrealistic that you control the game with a mouse and keyboard!

There are so many unrealistic things which is needed for the game to work. And in my oppinion respawning (or reinforcements) is needed, for the sake of preventing boredom.

The only thing you can talk about in a video game is wether things are believable enough to SEEM realistic. So the job at hand is making respawning (reinforcements) work so it is believable and ADDS to gameplay. Because gameplay is everything...

Realism is a matter of believing... nothing else. Real realism is only found in the real world.

Totally agree with everything you said, whether the "hardcore" ofp'ers like respawn or not it has to be in there for arma to become a mainstream online game, the simple fact is most noobs are not going to want to die once then wait 2 hours until the next battle, especially if you see some of the noobs from BF2 they often die within about 30 seconds lol.

[benreeper 0]

I disagree: it is not the respawn type that will make this game popular. OFP not being as popular as the BF series is mainly due to no one knowing about it. And to a small part, lack of JIP. If the game is forced down your throat (EA promoton), people will adapt to it; the game doesn't have to adapt to the players. The BF series bugs and flaws in fundamental gamrplay are testament to that.

--Ben

[madrussian 347]

1. True “Side†respawn (like group respawn only the groups are linked)

3. Return to play - As actual existing reinforcements via dialog from the Death Cam (Reinforcement groups are applied by the mission designer, as desired, via a single function call.  All you guys wanting reinforcements flown in via chopper, here's your support)

7. No restrictions on AIs in the player groups (Again, the biggie for me)

This sounds highly interesting! I've thought about making something similiar for a very long mission with group respawn and AI units that join the group later on if you lose some. But both ways that I came up with had some serious problems (note that I didn't actually try them, just guessed what would happen).

1. Normal base respawn, swap the units when the respawn takes place and deletevehicle the AI unit. Problems with changing all the gear from the AI to the player, like half empty magazines and such. Injuries, sure you can setDammage but it's not easy to have somebodys hands hit. And the biggest problem for some missions, the unit will look different, imagine a sniper or a civilian AI being swapped to a regular soldier model all of the sudden when somebody respawns. Other than that, normal respawn would be very flexible and without risk of getting players stuck as a seagull.

2. Group respawn. A whole lot of problems. Like when a whole group dies at the same time in a vehicle you don't have time to join them to another group for respawns so they will became seagulls and there's no way back to a regular unit then. Or when there's no respawn left in the currect group and you die, you would have to either predict the exact moment of death and join the unit to a different group right before it or have an annoying extra unit in the group at all times. Also the group respawn has some bugs, sometimes it just fails to work for no apparent reason (especially with vehicles).

So. I'm intrested to know do you use group respawn or base respawn?

Thanks for the enthusiasm!

For my respawn system I am utilizing normal base respawn, which does present some of the limitations you mention.  As far as I'm aware, with the exception of the potential for half empty clips, the gear transfers OK.  The clips and the rest (no hands hit, etc) are minor IMO, except of course for the single "player model" for OFP that can't be changed.  This is the biggest limitation, but still not a huge deal.  I usually pick the most basic player unit for a particular mission to combat this.

As far as using "group" respawn goes, I foresaw some of the issues you mentioned, and went the other way.  However, having gained the experience writing this using base respawn, I'm figuring out that "group" may actually not be as bad as I originally thought, provided that you keep the players as the leaders of separate groups, as I'm doing anyway.  But then there's the inherent OFP bugs with "group" that you've mentioned... I wasn't aware of those but I'm not surprised.  

In any event, the upcoming ArmA command "selectPlayer", with any luck, should make all this a moot point.  (That and simplify all my scripts a great deal.   )

From reading the Wiki, it appears that this little command is the foundation for all of the new player swap functionality in ArmA.  My hope is it allows unrestricted, bug free (inc no vehic probs), swap of player control from one unit to any other, instantaneously (or with built in cam, that transitions to the new unit over a specified duration, ala OFP group respawn transition upon death).

If it indeed works in this way, the possibilities available to mission designers will multiply ten fold!!!