15 years of independance

[eestikas88 0]

Thnx people.

Pro patria,like they say...

[xawery 0]

Nemesis, you are a dane!?

Hahaha, I'm saving this one for future generations... Priceless

In 1991 I was nine... I remeber stepping into the voting booth with my mother. I remember her being rather undecided; after all, going from a single-party to a multi-party state is quite a change. Had I known that one of the participating parties was "The Polish Party of Beer Aficionados", I would have suggested that

[Supah 0]

Had I known that one of the participating parties was "The Polish Party of Beer Aficionados", I would have suggested that

Do they still exist? Would be good to setup a dutch branch! The ultimate protest party

[Radnik 18]

I was 7 years old,and it was a hard time around here:

Croatian War of Independence (Croatian: Domovinski rat (Homeland war)), was a greater Serbian agression against Croatia from 1991 to 1995, between the Croatian government and Croatian Serbs,reinforced by the Serbia-controlled Yugoslav People's Army. The Croatian side aimed to establish the internationally recognized sovereignty for the Republic of Croatia, previously a socialist republic in Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, while Serbs wanted to establish new boundaries in parts of Croatia with a Serb majority or with influential Serbian minority, effectively seeking secession for them from the rest of Croatia. Many claim that the aims of Milosevic, was to create a greater Serbia and unite all the Serbs under one banner as well.There was a saying in this war "where is only one Serbian grave, that is Serbia!". The war was striking for its brutality in a relatively developed society in Europe, and in modern times.

The war in Croatia came about as a result of the dissolution of Yugoslavia, and the rise of nationalism. A crisis emerged in Yugoslavia with the weakening of the communist states in Eastern Europe towards the end of the Cold War, as symbolised by the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. In Yugoslavia, the national communist party, officially called Alliance or the League of Communists, was losing its ideological potency.

Many of my closest friends and family were killed at that time,so it was the time of pain and sorrow.....

...Victor,it's not that black&white.

We,Serbs, and you,Croats, agreed to live under same roof named Yugoslavia,right?,..so Serbs lived in Croatia (Krajina land) peacefully for 50 years,but in Yugoslavia(they were there long long,long time before Yugo.), Serbs,Croats and Muslims lived together in Bosnia,but in Yugoslavia,right?.

J.N.A. was army of Yugoslav people,right?...so if you clame independence out of Yugoslavia,basicly Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore...now what?

what stops Serbs majority in Croatia to clame independence out of Croatia?,...it was Yugoslavia who made borders of Croatia republic or republic of Serbia or Slovenia... not Serbia or Croats,right?

Why did everyone whined when Serbia wanted to cancel Kosovo autonomy?, those were Yugoslavian Kosovo borders,Kosovo didn't exist before Yugoslavia it was part of Serbia,...so if there's no Yugoslavia how come we break apart under those borders?

Both nations were lead by ultra-hard nationalist and acted stupidly...we could resolve it like Checkoslovakia did,but no...we all wanted to play with guns. Honestly...we hated each other even in Tito's time but we were under same flag and name!.

Now...we could argue for days and months who started first,who did what...bla,bla,bla...and we would never agree. That's why we went to war in first place... and i wont say who's guilty who's not...it's pointless, Serbia lost everything...Croatia has state made out of borders of same Yugoslavia they claimed independence.

Those were ugly days...for all of us...it was just stupid war!,...i could go to Korcula,Peljesac on vacation now, Loviste exactly.

Sorry for offtopic!

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

One of my lectors at university were a doctor in KFOR. He told me, that the serbians kept shooting at the hospital, even though they weren't a thread to anyone (just helping wounded soldiers and civilians).

In the end, they had to evacuate the hospital (which was an old school).

The worst experience was, that the soldiers there wasnt allowed to shoot the serbians unless fired upon.

No danes were killed at the place he served, because they were pretty much left alone except for the daily sparying against their buildings. (Despite shooting towards the hospital, the Serbs pretty much tried to avoid direct combat against KFOR).

[Sennacherib 0]

i was 17 and at school. the end of communist was a great day for the all the world.

about the ww2: the red terror killed 5% of the estonian people; it is normal if German were regarded as liberators

the estonian SS aren't considered as the german SS, because they fought only for their freedom, but it's not really clear.

but if your country was invaded,and your people kiled; what would you do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....tonian)

btw i don't like the nazis etc.

[Nemesis6 0]

Hahaha, I'm saving this one for future generations... Priceless

Xawery, very insulting that you're saving that one. Insulting coming from someone whose sole mission in life is to give AIDS back to the monkeys!

[xawery 0]

Hahaha, I'm saving this one for future generations... Priceless

Xawery, very insulting that you're saving that one. Insulting coming from someone whose sole mission in life is to give AIDS back to the monkeys!

Care to explain this sudden bout of moral indignation? Or is this one of your recurring features?

I wouldn't want some misunderstanding spoiling our outstanding relationship Nemesis6, so I'll try to make a few things very clear... If anything, I was making fun of Espectro's indignation at you being his countryman. So relax...

...and I'll generously disregard your derogatory comments.

[Nemesis6 0]

Hahaha, I'm saving this one for future generations... Priceless

Xawery, very insulting that you're saving that one. Insulting coming from someone whose sole mission in life is to give AIDS back to the monkeys!

Care to explain this sudden bout of moral indignation? Or is this one of your recurring features?

I wouldn't want some misunderstanding spoiling our outstanding relationship Nemesis6, so I'll try to make a few things very clear... If anything, I was making fun of Espectro's indignation at you being his countryman. So relax...

...and I'll generously disregard your derogatory comments.

Well, I really just saw an opening and took a shot!

But on topic - Hailing one evil for delivering you from another one = ...Well, do the math you think I'd use here. Germany and the USSR shared one specific tactic = We come to liberate you from the evil [insert either Communists or Fascists here], and that's how they played the various countries they invaded as pawns in the game. That the pawns still see their players as good, well, that's kind of a flaw.

[eestikas88 0]

About that Wikipedia link.

There's a picture about Estonian SS badges.

You can't consider the german or SS,they have a clear meaning.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....nia.jpg

As you can see,there's an arm with a sword forming a V shape that stands for Republic in Estonian language.Above the arm you can see "E" that stands for Estonia.So it the badge means Estonian Republic.But it can also have another meaning.As you can see there's an arm with a sword,so this can mean that it protects Estonia.

So these badges have nothing to do with nazis.These are pure Estonian.

You can also take them as a warning,you have a problem with us,watch out...

[Sennacherib 0]

yep and a lot of people fought with the SS

- Spanish only against the communists

- British

- Italians

- French (last defenders of the Reichtag)

- Russians against communists

- Belgians

- Scandinavians

the ww2 is a very complicated war.

sorry i'm offtopic.

[xawery 0]

Don't forget the Dutch, who contributed the largest amount of volunteer SS (ca. 5000).

[sander 14]

Quote[/b] ]Don't forget the Dutch, who contributed the largest amount of volunteer SS (ca. 5000).

That is a considerable underestimation, the RIOD (predecessor of the current NIOD) has concluded that some 23.000 Dutch volunteered for service in the Waffen-SS during the course of the second world war. Not all of these served at once.

Reference: Pierik, P., Van Leningrad tot Berlijn. Nederlandse vrijwilligers in dienst van de Duitse Waffen-SS 1941-1945 (2nd ed. Soesterberg 2000), page 62. (3rd edition can currently be found at DeSlegte)

Dutch volunteers were relative to overall population size the largest foreign contingent, not in absolute numbers (more troops were recruited from the Soviet-Union). This unsavoury aspect of Dutch history is all too often glossed over.

Over 10.000 additional Dutchmen have served in other branches of the German armed forces during that time, in part though as conscripts (men of mixed Dutch/German parentage were subject to the draft).

Regards,

Sander

[Sennacherib 0]

the division wiking?

[eestikas88 0]

I would like to remind you that,we are talking here about our independence not German SS.

This topic is about the events 15 years ago not 61.

But i would like to add that during the communist occupation we never abandoned the thought that we will be free again.In our history,nobody has ever taken thoughts about being free from us.

So you can say,resistance has always existed here.At some times in people's minds and somedays as an organisation.

You know,during the events of 1991 estonians had weapons like AK-47 s,molotov coctails and some other great stuff for warfare.

I'd say lot's of people had such weapons.One of my relatives was in defence of a radio station in 1991 back here in Tallinn,well they had these weapons against the russians. although they didn't kill anyone since there was no battle.

[CouchMonkey 0]

Wow, 15 years already? That was a wild time for us here in the States too. Between that and Desert Storm, it was the birth of modern news media (for better or for worse).

[Blake 0]

I was in 8th grade when our southern neighbour Estonia gained it's independence and naturally I was very happy and fascinated by the whole thing at the time. When young all sorts of patriotic things came to mind and me and my mates were discussing about the possibility of a military alliance with our country, Estonia and NATO or even getting our land back lost in WW2. I especially remember the late president Meri and his proud, determined defiance which reflected from his no-nonsense facial expression. I also recall our government's overtly cautios and cowardly policies during the brief coup of communist hardliners in Moscow.

Quote[/b] ]Between that and Desert Storm, it was the birth of modern news media (for better or for worse).

CNN, live footage from Baghdad and all - but it was also very censored war from the start, the renewal of Vietnam media disaster was to be averted at all costs. I remember discussing about the war at school and expecting stiff Iraqi resistance and problems with M-16 and the sand, chemical weapons, etc. but none of those issues emerged I think. I knew at the time though about the superiority of M1 tank having played M1 tank platoon on Amiga and reading its manual to shreds.

[PitViper 0]

It was a shame that the communists survived WW2 while the nazis were destroyed. The communists then did horrible things that the nazis only dreamed of. I've always wondered what the US or the allies could have done to implode both totalitarian regimes. Perhaps the U.S should have declared neutrality and declined to invade France. It was obvious that the western front weakened the Germans enough to give the Russians the upperhand. Perhaps with some crafty work and stringing along Stalin, the allies could have helped perpetuate the eastern front for many more years to annihilate both the Wehrmacht and the Red Army and eventually cause the mutual collapse of both the communist and nazi regimes. Perhaps it's fantastical thinking.

Addressing the Communist totalitarian regime in WW2 could have saved millions of Eastern European lives.

[Sennacherib 0]

Quote[/b] ]It was a shame that the communists survived WW2 while the nazis were destroyed

your post is a shame

you should think at the civilians of the countries occupied by the nazis and of course at Jews.

[NeMeSiS 11]

It was a shame that the communists survived WW2 while the nazis were destroyed.

The difference is that in theory communism was ment to be something good, while the nazis never wanted something (in our eyes) good.

[scousejedi 0]

Quote[/b] ]It was a shame that the communists survived WW2 while the nazis were destroyed

your post is a shame  

you should think at the civilians of the countries occupied by the nazis and of course at Jews.

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps it's fantastical thinking.

no it's a stupid thought

@Dante - I think he is saying that

Nazi evil = Stalinist evil

and wished that WW2 had destroyed both regimes.

[Sennacherib 0]

yep i know, but he should be careful when he write that

Quote[/b] ]It was a shame that the communists survived WW2 while the nazis were destroyed

btw sorry for the word "stupid", i edited my post

[PitViper 0]

@Dante - I think he is saying that

Nazi evil = Stalinist evil

and wished that WW2 had destroyed both regimes.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. That is exactly what I was saying.

Quote[/b] ]I've always wondered what the US or the allies could have done to implode both totalitarian regimes.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

In August of 91 I was 10 and I bet I was enjoying a beach summer at length...