Infrared searchlights

[GBee 0]

24Gamer, you might want to reconsider your post. Simply put, you're making a fool of yourself.

[dreday 1]

just checked on Wiki, aparently there are two types of IR, Near and Far, Far being Thermal Imaging, Near being an extension of visible light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision

GBee:yeah, sry, hehe

24Gamer, I saw your original post as well... No problem here! Like I have said, I myself am far from an expert on this...

Now shouldn't we get back to discussing how all of this could be implemented in ArmA?

Peace,

DreDay

[24Gamer 0]

just checked on Wiki, aparently there are two types of IR, Near and Far, Far being Thermal Imaging, Near being an extension of visible light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision

GBee:yeah, sry, hehe

24Gamer, I saw your original post as well...  No problem here! Like I have said, I myself am far from an expert on this...

Now shouldn't we get back to discussing how all of this could be implemented in ArmA?

Peace,

DreDay

agreed

i think it would be a great feature

because it adds more depth to the gameplay:

ability to use Near IR Flashlights too see better dark

but at the same time if someone is using Near/Passive IR NV then you would stick out like a saw thumb :P (balanced gameplay)

wonder if they could also implement Far/Thermal IR NV (like in IGI2, i think) it wouldnt be that hard to implement either, just make Units glow white and most other things black

[coderdfox 0]

well! one thing that is good with these new directX render is this may work. It all comes down to the shaders used. If the shaders changes when looking through a targeting computer then it could be.

I dont thing BIS will include it, but just like the direct X plugin for OFP, the mod community will find a way. I wouldnt put it pass them

[frederf 0]

It would act just like a flashlight illuminating the ground in OFP, only it would be a layer you wouldn't see unless you had some IR light detecting device (thanks for the heads up of IR passive vs thermal, same concept, different design)

[GBee 0]

GBee:yeah, sry, hehe

No need to apologise, it was just some friendly advice. Could maybe have been phrased better but it was late and I was on the right side of a few beers

[.pablo. 0]

well it just so happens dyslexi released an article on a UT mod called "Infiltration" that includes a simulation of IR lasers; unfortunately that's about all the IR tech it simulates, so there're no IR flashlights or active IR goggles, but it is still cool to see in a game and shows that it can be done after all.

[mattxr 9]

Well you can get anti IR camo .. as shown in these pictues..

Tank images from a thermal viewer (8mu-12mu) at 250m while manoeuvring. #1 is commonly painted. #2 is Intermat anti-IR camouflage painted.

The same M113, BHOT (Black Hot), NFOV (Narrow Field Of View) at 200m is thermally camouflaged against the background.

M113 painted with Intermat anti-thermal coatings.

Hummer images from a thermal viewer (8mu to 12mu) at 500m while manoeuvring. #1 is commonly painted. #2 is Intermat anti-IR painted.

[max power 21]

Hmmm.. those coverings must some how change the wavelength of the radiation that the vehicles emit. If it simply kept the infrared radiation in, everyone in the vehicle would bake!

[.pablo. 0]

Hmmm.. those coverings must some how change the wavelength of the radiation that the vehicles emit.  If it simply kept the infrared radiation in, everyone in the vehicle would bake!

im not 100% sure, but i remember reading that IR radiation was not the same thing as heat, but merely a by-product of heat; therefore, preventing it from escaping wouldn't necessarily cause any increase in heat. but again, i'm not sure.

[frederf 0]

From what I can tell (Intermat is tight lipped about the scientific principles behind it) the anti IR coating is designed to radiate heat energy at wavelengths similar to that of your environment. They might make up for lesser energy per photon for higher photon rate (read: intensity). But that's just a guess.

[MeltdownSoldier 0]

There is olso IR lights models in the original Ofp and there is no IR system. The IR light on the following BRDM and T80 is here only for the realism of the models.

[DaveG 0]

Hmmm.. those coverings must some how change the wavelength of the radiation that the vehicles emit.  If it simply kept the infrared radiation in, everyone in the vehicle would bake!

im not 100% sure, but i remember reading that IR radiation was not the same thing as heat, but merely a by-product of heat; therefore, preventing it from escaping wouldn't necessarily cause any increase in heat.  but again, i'm not sure.

While it is true to say that IR radiation is not heat, it is also true that ALL objects with a temeperature above absolute zero will radiate IR light in proportion with their temperature. Therefore you can tell how hot something is by how much IR it's giving off, though it does vary according to the properties of the surface of the object (black/white matte/shiny). Heat is really just energy stored in the object.

Maybe the IR camo paint works like the powder in flourscent light bulbs. That stuff converts UV into visible light, so maybe something can convert IR into something undetectable?

[max power 21]

Hmmm.. those coverings must some how change the wavelength of the radiation that the vehicles emit. If it simply kept the infrared radiation in, everyone in the vehicle would bake!

im not 100% sure, but i remember reading that IR radiation was not the same thing as heat, but merely a by-product of heat; therefore, preventing it from escaping wouldn't necessarily cause any increase in heat. but again, i'm not sure.

You would have to disperse the energy somehow. IR is not the same as heat, no. Things that have heat lose energy by radiating infrared radiation. Objects struct by infrared radiation increase in heat. If you're simply reflecting the IR back into the vehicle, and all you have inside is a huge ir photon circus (ie. inside of the vehicle emits ir photons which strike the inside of the vehicle to produce heat) with no escape, the temperature inside will increase steadily. This is how those reflective 'space blankets' work. It's also the reason why astronauts need underwear that circulates cool water over their bodies.

[VISTREL 0]

LOL, I don't think there will be any infrared lights on brdm. Just because they're in the model doesn't mean it will have the function.

[frederf 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe the IR camo paint works like the powder in flourscent light bulbs. That stuff converts UV into visible light, so maybe something can convert IR into something undetectable?

That's exactly what I'm thinking. It's a "light redener" that takes bluer light and reddens it. The ambient enviroment is also making IR light that's more red than a hot object. That's not to say that you can simply diminish the energy rate leaving an object (by making it radiate smaller energy photons. red photons carry less energy than blue photons) or it will not be able to cool itself and build heat. What you can do to solve this is emit a higher photon rate or intensity of redder light to achieve the same cooling effect.

So before you had a blue object on a red background, with the anti IR-coating you have a bright red object on a red background. I imagine that IR-rageting systems are made to pick out bluer objects from red ones and not brighter objects so this serves to hide the hot object. You can also think of the florecent light tube example, the same amount of energy is striking the inside surface of the tube in the form of UV that is leaving the outside of the tube in the form of visable light. Light reddening without heat build up.

I don't really expect ArmA to have the IR spectrum and devices modeled, but it's fun to daydream, eh?

[DaveG 0]

^^

Yeah sometimes I get a bit carried away thnking about that kind of stuff.

oh. I'm not sure that it would reden the light as the light emitted from flourescent light bulbs is white, which as we know is made up from the complete visible spectrum (although flourescent tubes emit slightly blue light). Maybe there's more than one chemical in the tubes, spread across the spectrum?

Whoops. Getting a bit off topic here. Is there a Physics forum anywhere?

[frederf 0]

Heh, even if you didn't mean it the flourecent light tube analogy was a good one. How a flourecent light works is a voltage is applied across a gas exciting the electrons in the gas. The electrons jump down a bunch and give out high energy, high frequency UV light. This light (bluer than visible) gets absorbed by the walls and gets emmited as a few lower energy, lower frequency photons in the visible range. Thus the light is reddened (Visible light is redder than UV light) by a magical process such that if you were holding a UV detector trying to target a UV source you'd be plumb out of luck.

[DaveG 0]

I knew it was a good analogy. Physics A-levels go a long way

[frederf 0]

When you get a degree in physics they makek you sign a paper explaining any physics related topic in boring extensive detail to people who couldn't care less.

[DaveG 0]

^^

Ha ha. I know what you mean. People often stare a me blankly after I've been waffling on about about something to do with physics.

Still, it was an intersting discussion that we managed to hijak.

[frederf 0]

Since we've totally hijacked it might as well run with this. The above picture shows what's called blackbody radiation. This is the light that a "perfect" hot object gives off.

[DaveG 0]

That's right. Max Planck (spelling?) gave us the equation for that.

[24Gamer 0]

nice, so really hot objects give off radio waves aswell!

[DaveG 0]

Yep. and pratically everything else as well. Which means that even with the IR camo paint vehicles will still be detectable, if you know how to look for them.