Grass

[l etranger 5]

As you can see on this pics we can see tall grass, which could be usefull to lie down.

Now i am wondering if the grass will help or break the game.

Explanation :

If you lie down to hide in thoses tall grass, you will not seen anything around, but will the others still not see you?

As you know gamers don't use NASA computer to play, so devs have to put optimization everywhere to make their visually complex games. For the grass devs usualy make it disappear at a certain distance where you would not notice much the difference to economize every ressources they can for other things.

The problem : if someone hide in the grass and another one is at the distance where the grass dissappear, the last one will see clearly the poor lying man thinking he is hidden. The hidden man still can't see anything due to all the grass around him.

I let you guess what happen for the poor 'hidden' dude.

Many games suffer this problem, so in multiplayer people or devs simply disable the grass wich mean it is only a visual effects and unusable for any strategy.

In some other games devs make it smartly, in Joint Operations when the grass disappear, the player hidding in get the grass skin on his model, blending with the ground, making him still hidden. What is good with Joint Operation, is that this hiding kept its realism because if you are far but above the hidden, you will see him normaly (grass are grewing verticaly, not horizontaly).

So there the grass become a gameplay element, use tall grass, hide if you see a tank etc...

I thrust BIS to make the grass a game element and not a (need to disable) effects, and hope they will fullfill my wish.

[Trueman 0]

Go to options and set the grass length to 10 centimetre.

[ziiip 1]

I OFP, if you turn off smokes, and throw a smoke grenade, the soldiers behind will not be drawn...or at least that's what i've heard.

[l etranger 5]

I don't think smoke act as wall, if you go close to a real wall (house or full fence) everything behind will not be drawn, only the terrain, it is cool because it work as an anti wall hack and also improve performance by decreasing objects drawn.

It could be used too with people hiding in grass when the grass disappear.

[ThePredator 0]

L etranger got a point here...

I would appreciate such hiding option.

Especially for snipers like me. However, in the videos you only see desert BDU.

OFP had some sort of ghillie suit, not really efficient, because there was no grass to hide in the open.

Grass should be part of ArmA. You can track vehicles, infantry and hide in it.

Cover and concealment is one of the most important things in the infantry. Running, even crawling in the open is a death sentence if armor is closing in.

[telejunky 0]

I think it will be some kind like JO:

If a player is nearby by you he will be shown complete (no alphachannel) behind the grass. But a soldier who is far away will be blinded out by alpha channel:

[A.T.A 0]

More screenshots :

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/joint-o....cs.html

[Donnervogel 0]

however there is an option in the E3 demo to adjust the grass density. I don't know how this will affect the game in multiplayer but every user can have different grass settings so it could lead to weird situation. I mean you go close and there is no grass on your client but there is grass on someone esles... how would you go about? not draw him? then the guy is invisible to somebody despite there being no grass. If you draw him the guy will be perfectly visisble despite being hidden (on his client). If you make it different on every client it's basicly the same. someone thinks he is hidden and in reality he is not to another player...

I suspect this being a problem...

[Scrub 0]

I'll try to find the images, bit there was one or two that showed a soldier laying down and looking through the grass, which was a bit transparent.

[Ryujin 0]

The grass should be set by the server so everyone has the same amount and it would be fair to everyone. but low-end computers could have problems with severs turnig up the grass.

[Metal Heart 0]

I wish you could trample it to the ground to make a better firing position. Like with the trees and tanks in OFP

[sniper pilot 36]

Quote[/b] ]As you know gamers don't use NASA computer to play,

heh my pc is better than NASA's computer when they sent a man to the moon. but thats off the point.

Joint Ops way looks alright, but i think you should be able to see the "enemy hiding in the grass" depending on what altitude (Vantige point) you have on him. I dont know its a tough subject for me...

[dreday 1]

I am guessing that grass would have different LODs (Level Of Detail), just like many other objects in the game (i.e. trees). That way, when you look at a distant enemy surrounded by grass; he would still be fairly obscured, but the grass around him would not be as detailed as if you were standing next to them.

If BIS can pull this of (and I am sure they can), game play should not be effected and the performance would not take a hit.

Peace,

DreDay

[bravo 6 0]

i have to say i was impressed about the grass and bushes.. hope its smooth with all the movements of the wind..

congrats bis, lets see if we will all be able to play with it fairly..

edit: i would like to add what i did notice and did not like in the good improvement we seen though they say its not the the way it will be.

The way bushes and trees move.. they all move iqual... as a stick and they should move smooth from the bottom to top and not like 1 piece moving.

i have fate in BIS

[Juan 0]

Joint Ops way looks alright, but i think you should be able to see the "enemy hiding in the grass" depending on what altitude (Vantige point) you have on him. I dont know its a tough subject for me...

Yes, it looks allright and performs very good. Its clever, and can get very hard to spot the enemy. If Novalogic can do that with their engine without creating any lag on my PC I don't see why BIS couldn't. I consider BIS engine way more powerful and complicated, so we will see some nice grass.

[sniper pilot 36]

Joint Ops way looks alright, but i think you should be able to see the "enemy hiding in the grass" depending on what altitude (Vantige point) you have on him. I dont know its a tough subject for me...

Yes, it looks allright and performs very good. Its clever, and can get very hard to spot the enemy. If Novalogic can do that with their engine without creating any lag on my PC I don't see why BIS couldn't. I consider BIS engine way more powerful and complicated, so we will see some nice grass.

exactly!

[ebns72 0]

I like the JO way as well. I always thought it worked nicely in games.

[westy159 0]

Quote[/b] ]As you know gamers don't use NASA computer to play,

heh my pc is better than NASA's computer when they sent a man to the moon. but thats off the point.

Joint Ops way looks alright, but i think you should be able to see the "enemy hiding in the grass" depending on what altitude (Vantige point) you have on him. I dont know its a tough subject for me...

The N64 is 6 times faster than the computers they used in the first moon landing.

I trust BI to find a way around the multiplayer grass problem

[Lou Montana 101]

but low-end computers could have problems with severs turnig up the grass.

There was also a performance issue in OFP with allowing shadows, the footsteps weren't drawn so you couldn't follow your enemy...

[Commando84 0]

yeah footsteps would be great to follow and see on the ground, maybe servers and mission editors could set for options for how long fotsteps will be visible

Also blood like in Ecp mod, leaving blood trails on the ground..

i remember some really scary and tense moments with ecp and mp involved like tracking down a wounded sniper or blackop running of into the woods or into a town.

I have faith in Bis and the mod teams

[Stuntman 0]

Say yes to better vegetation, AND better, AND working "vegetation hiding"!

[Dwarden 1125]

i think this represents well done method how infantry can be hiden ingame while crawling within grass

these screenshots are from RTS Theatre of War (game done by combined development of IL-2 and Combat Mission authors) source was this demonstration video ftp://ftp.battlefront.com/pub/misc/tow/ToW_Infantry_Crawling.zip

[Scrub 0]

That is wonderful up close, however, I believe the real problem is at a distance. If they apply the same effect, then it is like JO. And is a good tradeoff for not lagging lower end machines. At least it does what it's supposed to, make you paranoid and search all the moving things in the corner of your eye at 300+ meters

[Ukraineboy 0]

Im more worried about the jagged hills in ArmA. I have clipped my tail so many times on those jagged hills...

[sniper pilot 36]

This pic you can see that the grass makes the soldier's boot transparent(sp?). I was looking at Armed Assault EU and saw this comment:

Quote[/b] ]Anunnaki on 07/07/2006 10:45:28

Grass transparency is GREAT! That is very important, when is something behing grass is transparent. That is good when someone turn its detail graphics to small and then see grass only on short distance around him... Than soldiers in higher distance hidden in high grass are transparent and noone can see him (the same for both side) and no mather that he have low detail (withouth grass on long distance) or high details (grass everywhere). Transparency is BEST sollution !

What do you think?

Edit: and in this pic.