The atmosphere

[tophe 69]

I'm 100% sure that the atmosphere will be even more dense than in OFP. Judging from the sceens I've seen so far it's genuine flashpoint atmosphere all the way through.

Even better... now some of the little irritating things that tend to ruin som of the feeling in OFP will be fixed. Like clipping and shooting through walls etc.

Let's not forget that we have THE BEST TEAM EVER working on this game. They know atmosphere... I bet they even pee atmosphere.

[funnyguy1 0]

Quote[/b] ]Am I the only one who thinks that Armed Assault being the most successful game of 2006 is a good thing?

If being successful means turning the game into a pile of Battlefield 2 then, yes.

You are looking for Operation: Flashpoint 2, developed by Codemasters. Besides there are tons of games out there for your kind of people who just wanna have fun and stuff, play Far Cry for example. What i want is a game that makes me think about what the damn i'm doing not one that makes me hit the F6 button constantly.

No offense meant but i don't understand what you wanna do to the game.

Quote[/b] ]maybe an ingame punishment such as restricting access to a new weapon in the next level would be a fair way of trading off the gaming

"Collect all of the hidden gold coins on the level to gain access to a new flamethrower!!!" ... eh sorry about that bit of mockery...

I think he meant adding a few more quicksaves to the cadet mode in place of a bit retarded AI, rather than turning ofp into a bf2 or collecting gold bonus coins... :|

[Metal Heart 0]

Well if you give them that next they'll be asking health & armor pick-ups Å• la Doom, fixed crosshair, swimming with full gear and bunnyhopping. Not to mention the Magik Backpack From Dimension X that can suck in up to a ton and a half of weapons and equipment. You gotta draw the line somewhere unless you want to end up with the online community from Hell (the l33t pwnrs that say "u hax u fucking n00b i gonna pwn ur gay cheator ass" etc).

[CsonkaPityu 0]

I think he meant adding a few more quicksaves to the cadet mode in place of a bit retarded AI, rather than turning ofp into a bf2 or collecting gold bonus coins... :|

But quicksaves would take away so much from the game...

But, you gotta admit that the suggestion about restricting weapons on the next mission sounded kinda... unflashpointy.

"HQ, here's Zulu, a large concetration of Koopa Troopas is heading southbound, just popped out of the forest at grid position df-37, better get the princess to safety, out."

...

I gotta stop this low-grade mockery and make it into a mod...

[-kelet0r 0]

Quote[/b] ]Am I the only one who thinks that Armed Assault being the most successful game of 2006 is a good thing?

If being successful means turning the game into a pile of Battlefield 2 then, yes.

You are looking for Operation: Flashpoint 2, developed by Codemasters. Besides there are tons of games out there for your kind of people who just wanna have fun and stuff, play Far Cry for example. What i want is a game that makes me think about what the damn i'm doing not one that makes me hit the F6 button constantly.

No offense meant but i don't understand what you wanna do to the game.

Quote[/b] ]maybe an ingame punishment such as restricting access to a new weapon in the next level would be a fair way of trading off the gaming

"Collect all of the hidden gold coins on the level to gain access to a new flamethrower!!!" ... eh sorry about that bit of mockery...

what an asshole

Quote[/b] ]I think he meant adding a few more quicksaves to the cadet mode in place of a bit retarded AI, rather than turning ofp into a bf2 or collecting gold bonus coins... :|

this is finally someone seeing the light - as much as I believe in what i'm saying I also want it to be treated as a devil's advocate routine and get a decent debate about the game

because Operation Flashpoint was a very flawed game - a masterpiece that fell short of true greatness because of gameplay mistakes, because of its assinine difficulty at times

i'll compare it to say another hardcore gamers game and one of favourite games, Deus Ex. Deus Ex was tough, possibly tougher than Operation Flashpoint but its saving system at checkpoints with optional quicksaves thrown in didnt affect the game immersion whatsoever - the atmosphere in that game surpasses that of Operation Flashpoint particularly as it was up to the gamer in the latter to immerse THEMSELVES

To take another example - look at Garry's Mod for HL2. Here you get the possibility to zoom through the original game just having fun - spawning an enemy that will attack everything around it, spawning allies, creating ambushes, accessing weapons. Or ignore this, ramp up the difficulty to maximum and play normally. I would love to see something like this in Arma - to test the game to its limits, to create hundreds of possibilities, to bring the game engine to its knees

And I dont see how this would affect the game like I am being repeatedly being told in this thread. Like I said, have for example 3 levels of difficulty which can be changed ingame like in HL2

Expert - hardest most realistic setting - no quick saves, other restrictions such as those in Opf

Veteran - Normal difficulty setting - limited/1 quicksave, other restrictions such as those in OPf

Cadet - Quicksaves, no restrictions

Simple as

Please Discuss but be nice - I like this debate so far, lets not turn it into flaming

[DaCoroner 0]

As you can see I don't post here much, but OFP is something I hold near and dear so I'll chime in briefly before going back to lurking for another couple of years

For me, I tend to play with a small group of other players that I've met over the years.  We only play co-op games, we only play on private server that one of us hosts and we have a habit of modifying the game to exactly what our small group wants.  No other game out there gives us the freedom to do exactly what we want like OFP does.  Even after all of these years when other games have come along with far superior graphics and sound.

I enjoy the missions that came with the game as well as the Red Hammer & Resistance missions but they are a small portion of what I enjoy in OFP, I'd even call them insignificant after all of this time.  What keeps me playing the game and making missions for us is the atmosphere, nothing else.  And by atmosphere I'm not referring to "Hollywood" atmosphere like you get in many games or fancy high-end shaders and multi-million dollar soundtracks, those just make me feel like I'm in a movie.  The atmosphere in OFP is hard to describe and has little to do with graphics and sounds.  Something about running through a forrest with the enemy chasing me and then getting myself lost and trying desperately to match up landmarks with my map so I could re-join my team isn't matched in any other game.  No other game makes it possible to have a mission where your job is to simply ferry troops or supplies to the battlefield and your performance of that has a real impact on the battle.  I can't express the satisfaction felt after playing a co-op game where I had to break off and run back to base in a recently "borrowed" civillian car to get more ammunition.  Or the feeling of desperation when the team disperses into a nearby village or forrest simply trying to survive against overwhelming odds, and then trying to turn that around into a victory after re-grouping.  This is the only game I've ever played that gave me the same feelings I experienced during maneuvers in Re-Forger or in the box at Hoenfels(did I spell that right?)/Graf.

All of this without having to listen to anybody complain about uneven teams or somebody cheating or exploiting some fault in the game.

I hope that doesn't make me an elitist.  Although perhaps I am.  I secretly (well not so much now) hope that the biggest players in the gaming industry will abandon the PC platform entirely and stick with consoles so we can get back to our roots when PC games were made by people with a passion for their games and a genuine interest in their community.  Yeah, a utopian vission where a few small companies, not unlike BIS, aren't constantly under the gun from some guy in a suit who couldn't tell the different between an M1 Garand and an M1 Abrams.

As for ArmA, I'll be quite happy even if it is no more than OFP with a facelift, although after reading their press release I have a feeling it will be much better than that.  Even moreso, I'm confident that the mod community will provide us with updates that even the developers can't imagine right now.  In both cases I'm certain the atmosphere will be very good if not perfect.

[dmakatra 1]

Well said! I agree on every aspect.

[Metal Heart 0]

I still don't see what's your problem with the current system, $kelet0r. You can save as much as you want with the savegame cheat (hold left ctrl & shift & press numpad minus, then type savegame). And the difficulty settings:

Cadet mode: easier missions (usually means less opposition).

3rd person view: let's you see further, over the hills & around corners

Extented armor: you can take more hits without dying

etc...

edit...

Sorry, I was wrong. It's "only" 2^12 + 2^6 = 4160 different combinations of difficulty.

[Leopardi 0]

Yeah, skeletor, that thing would ruin the whole game! "Damn, too hard mission," *Changes to cadet mode* "Ah, now I can save every second and play this map through" And so on. If you want to save all the time use the cheats, dammit...

[funnyguy1 0]

Read the above post and spend a while thinking what`s ruining the game and what WILL or WON`T ruin it in the future...

If somebody want`s to play cadet mode, what are you going to do? Tell him it`s wrong? because "we the hardcore ofp community" (lol) are playing on the highest level?

Be more mature man...And stick with difficulty level you`re gonna choose.

Arma probably is a lot more acessible(?) now, because of those green or red auras around units etc. What`s more lame? More indicators on your HUD or ability to quicksave twice?

[dmakatra 1]

More stuff on the HUD is lamer. But why would we ever need to choose between them? That's the real question.

EDIT: And what the hell do you mean by red/green auras? It sounds like an RTS.

[-kelet0r 0]

Yeah, skeletor, that thing would ruin the whole game! "Damn, too hard mission," *Changes to cadet mode* "Ah, now I can save every second and play this map through" And so on. If you want to save all the time use the cheats, dammit...

explain how it would ruin the game?

I can understand the reservations of some but it is the gamer who is given the tools to play the game - it is your choice then whether to play on hard the whole way through or not

My main desire to see a less rigorous difficulty level is because I want to get onto an island and run amok - i want to pick a fight with the enemy squad in the village, i want to throw smoke grenades at a tank, i want to drive around evading a helicopter in a level where on the highest difficulty you wouldnt dream of ever leaving cover

I want to explore, to examine every crazy possibility, to vivit every part - and i dont want to cheat while doing so, I shouldnt have to resort to that when i just want to have a blast of fun

Quote[/b] ]For me, I tend to play with a small group of other players that I've met over the years. We only play co-op games, we only play on private server that one of us hosts and we have a habit of modifying the game to exactly what our small group wants. No other game out there gives us the freedom to do exactly what we want like OFP does. Even after all of these years when other games have come along with far superior graphics and sound.

I enjoy the missions that came with the game as well as the Red Hammer & Resistance missions but they are a small portion of what I enjoy in OFP, I'd even call them insignificant after all of this time. What keeps me playing the game and making missions for us is the atmosphere, nothing else. And by atmosphere I'm not referring to "Hollywood" atmosphere like you get in many games or fancy high-end shaders and multi-million dollar soundtracks, those just make me feel like I'm in a movie. The atmosphere in OFP is hard to describe and has little to do with graphics and sounds. Something about running through a forrest with the enemy chasing me and then getting myself lost and trying desperately to match up landmarks with my map so I could re-join my team isn't matched in any other game. No other game makes it possible to have a mission where your job is to simply ferry troops or supplies to the battlefield and your performance of that has a real impact on the battle. I can't express the satisfaction felt after playing a co-op game where I had to break off and run back to base in a recently "borrowed" civillian car to get more ammunition. Or the feeling of desperation when the team disperses into a nearby village or forrest simply trying to survive against overwhelming odds, and then trying to turn that around into a victory after re-grouping. This is the only game I've ever played that gave me the same feelings I experienced during maneuvers in Re-Forger or in the box at Hoenfels(did I spell that right?)/Graf.

All of this without having to listen to anybody complain about uneven teams or somebody cheating or exploiting some fault in the game.

that isnt elitist at all - i want all those things from the game too and i know what you mean when you talk about atmosphere - the intensity and panic you feel when you all your squad are killed or when a Hind appears out of nothing - no game has ever come so close to making the player so afraid and I would hate for BIS to tamper with that

i appreciate Dacoroner's words He is a true Operation Flashpoint player

[beta 0]

First post here (signed up to give ideas on a CTI like mission ) but long time reader.

Quote[/b] ]My main desire to see a less rigorous difficulty level is because I want to get onto an island and run amok - i want to pick a fight with the enemy squad in the village, i want to throw smoke grenades at a tank, i want to drive around evading a helicopter in a level where on the highest difficulty you wouldnt dream of ever leaving cover

I want to explore, to examine every crazy possibility, to vivit every part - and i dont want to cheat while doing so, I shouldnt have to resort to that when i just want to have a blast of fun

Well, it seems to me that you simply want to "screw around" in the missions. I'm not saying you only want to screw around, just sometimes, but instead of going through the hassle (and quite possible ruining certain missions, both in development and play) of making all these different difficulty levels, why not just (as in classic OFP) extract the campaign mission and screw around with it from the Mission Editor? Don't want to/know how to do this, just make your own missions in the Mission Editor to screw around!

Now, when I say that it could ruin certain missions, I mean that a pivotal plot point might be misunderstood/not reached when one can so easily waltz through a mission; some of the missions are meant to be hard, they are trying to show you that "war sucks".

First time I played the "After Montignac" mission, I thought: damn, this just plain sucks! I tried the mission three or four times and started thinking ... if I could "save" my squad in the missions before, could I avoid this fate? So I replayed the earlier missions from a new campagin, and *gasp* it was ACTUALLY different, I preformed better on the previous missions and now my squad actually made it!

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that if you restrict how "hard" the missions can be (ie: uneven, as in 400 enemy vs. your 12 man squad), you WILL take away some of the "atmosphere" of the game, you won't be as fearful for your life when you know "safety" is just one click away.

If this game is truly to simulate (not completely of course) war, it MUST simulate that in war, NOTHING is fair, one day you could roll over the enemy, the other day they roll over you. I feel that OFP succeeded in this, but it was at a "cost", you HAD to be able to lose what you valued in the game, the time you invested in it ...

[Balschoiw 0]

I liked that feeling of complete desparation that overcame me with some CWC missions. I never felt hunted like that in any other game before. At some points you just had to flee. I remember when playing the game that I behaved like in any other shooter and failed badly. I even ran away at some point because I was so "stressed" with all that things happening on screen. I had to find out that even running away is somewhat a limited option in OFP. They just hunted me.

While playing the game more and more I found out that patience is rewarded and that there is always a different approach you can take. For example, you have to attack a base, you have failed badly with a direct attack, so you take out AT guys and steal a tank and the mission is turned into a win/win situation. Things like that are great. It gives the game a big depth and therefore longterm motivation. Even with all the possibilities OFP has you will run into unexpected from time to time. While you were able to steal a tank in one mission, you will find out that the stealth approach to a helo you wanted to steal does not work because the pilot has locked that damn thing

I´m not saying that I don´t like fast paced action from time to time but I guess what made OFP so special was the sensitive approach to real-life. I hope that this is embedded with future releases of BIS, whatever type they are. Limiting OFP down to a fast paced shooter with medpacks and infinte savepoints would have made it less motivating imo.

[Leopardi 0]

Skeletor, I already said it. You can't resist to change to Cadet mode and play the mission through, that makes the game pointless. I don't have the time to explain everything, it just would ruin the game.

[Scrub 0]

Lets be specific guys. It would ruin the game 'for you'. These are options. You can choose to use them or not. If getting by on single player means choosing to lower the difficulty, how is that affecting anybody else? MP a is different story all together, and there are servers that specialize in Cadet thru Vet LOD. Lets not bicker about personal tastes of options, it darkens the 'atmosphere'

[benreeper 0]

Skeletor, I don't get it.

If you want to run around and explore, use the editor.

I like OFP for what it is. When I played the BF2 demo I was wishing it was more like OFP, so do you know what I did: I played OFP.

Don't change the game, play another game. It's just your opinion that these changes will make it a "Great" game. Most of us here already think it's that.

--Ben

[westy159 0]

First post here (signed up to give ideas on a CTI like mission ) but long time reader.

Quote[/b] ]My main desire to see a less rigorous difficulty level is because I want to get onto an island and run amok - i want to pick a fight with the enemy squad in the village, i want to throw smoke grenades at a tank, i want to drive around evading a helicopter in a level where on the highest difficulty you wouldnt dream of ever leaving cover

I want to explore, to examine every crazy possibility, to vivit every part - and i dont want to cheat while doing so, I shouldnt have to resort to that when i just want to have a blast of fun

Well, it seems to me that you simply want to "screw around" in the missions. I'm not saying you only want to screw around, just sometimes, but instead of going through the hassle (and quite possible ruining certain missions, both in development and play) of making all these different difficulty levels, why not just (as in classic OFP) extract the campaign mission and screw around with it from the Mission Editor? Don't want to/know how to do this, just make your own missions in the Mission Editor to screw around!

Now, when I say that it could ruin certain missions, I mean that a pivotal plot point might be misunderstood/not reached when one can so easily waltz through a mission; some of the missions are meant to be hard, they are trying to show you that "war sucks".

First time I played the "After Montignac" mission, I thought: damn, this just plain sucks! I tried the mission three or four times and started thinking ... if I could "save" my squad in the missions before, could I avoid this fate? So I replayed the earlier missions from a new campagin, and *gasp* it was ACTUALLY different, I preformed better on the previous missions and now my squad actually made it!

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that if you restrict how "hard" the missions can be (ie: uneven, as in 400 enemy vs. your 12 man squad), you WILL take away some of the "atmosphere" of the game, you won't be as fearful for your life when you know "safety" is just one click away.

If this game is truly to simulate (not completely of course) war, it MUST simulate that in war, NOTHING is fair, one day you could roll over the enemy, the other day they roll over you. I feel that OFP succeeded in this, but it was at a "cost", you HAD to be able to lose what you valued in the game, the time you invested in it ...

Im pretty certain that no matter what you do your sqaud is always dead at the beggining of After Montignac and you start alone. That mission though is amazing. The whole feel to it and everything is what makes me play this game even years after its release. If AA or Game 2 became like BF2 i would be very dissapointed. I want to feel like im just a simple soldier in a massive operation and while im attacking a village at the same time helicopters are attacking convoys and spec ops are placing their demo charges under unsuspecting crew members tanks and that if i fail in my objective it will actually make a difference rather than "Oh well lets just restart the mission."

[dmakatra 1]

I think he meant that he replayed Montignac Must Fall, and he screwed up. If you screw up at Montignac Must Fall you get another mission instead of After Montignac, some convoy mission where you're fleeing off the island with your squad in a truck. They still wound up getting killed and you captured at the end of the mission though.

[beta 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think he meant that he replayed Montignac Must Fall, and he screwed up. If you screw up at Montignac Must Fall you get another mission instead of After Montignac, some convoy mission where you're fleeing off the island with your squad in a truck. They still wound up getting killed and you captured at the end of the mission though.

Yeah, thats what I meant, forgot they had different names ...

[Dynamax 0]

I think he meant that he replayed Montignac Must Fall, and he screwed up. If you screw up at Montignac Must Fall you get another mission instead of After Montignac, some convoy mission where you're fleeing off the island with your squad in a truck. They still wound up getting killed and you captured at the end of the mission though.

ahhaha i played that mission, and guess what.. i wasnt captured. i fact i cleared the town of all hostiles.. but then a trigger went off saying i got captured and i was sitting there alone with dead bodies all around.

ps: i played it on vet mode.

was alot of fun running around looking for more ammo while staying hidden from the AI.. alot of close calls. OFP is the best and only gmae of it's kind untill ArmA is released!

[dmakatra 1]

Yeh... I wasn't really "captured" either, you just found yourself in a tent after a black fade. I never really understood how the hell you'd become captured.

[CsonkaPityu 0]

I think skeletor has a completely different view on whats fun, for example his dream about "being able to drive around evading a helicopter", that's not the flashpoint atmosphere... In OFP if your driving around in a jeep and see a hind coming towards you, you do what any sane person would and get the darn out of that car and run for the nearest forest, bush, whatever.

With an ingame example; just imageine what "Montignac Must Fall" would've been if there was say, a UAZ in Provins, your squad gets killed, you get in the UAZ and the hind starts chasing after you, but you make a harrowing escape while rockets explode all around you like in some lame Schwarzenegger movie.

Point is though, Skeletor, there are tons of games with athmosphere like that, already on the market, play those. Go home Skeletor.

[imported_bör 0]

I don't understand why you're bashing skeletor. if you like it the hard, the realistic way, you choose the veteran setting. if you're a noob to the game or if you just want to mess around, you choose the beginner setting. I don't understand why different, scalable difficulty settings would ruin the game.

[ryankaplan 1]

if you want it like that, then, call of duty can be very realistic too if you mod it and play on hardcore setting. it's net code is great, you can use vehicles, multiple gunners, better graphics and the rest.

what i'm getting at is that it would ruin the point of ofp or arma completely. even though i've not been in an army nor in a firefight ever, but i'm sure engagements are not very dramatic or cinematic. most of the time it would probably just be aim at a blob 300 meters away, shoot and see the blob fall.