Character Ragdoll and more

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

They have been working hard on new animations for arma, so I would be surprised they would throw all that away and implement ragdolls

[kavoven 4]

for me it would be enough if a a wounded (crippled) soldier (player) would actually bleed to death if he doesn't get medical attention.

as for ragdoll... please not in ArmA. seen it in BF2 and in AA and some of the death anims just look shait. like this for example:

http://www.pafbase.de/images/screens/stuhlgang.gif

so,

this guys got killed by a nade and the guy in the front looks like he fell asleep... no ragdoll for me...

Do you like boddies looking through walls more?

[robert(uk) 0]

Hidden and Dangerous 2. That game is still the daddy for realistic balistics

Yeah, I remember on the H&D 2 forums once, we had this thread where people posted funny images. I remember one guy posted a screenie of his character where he had been shot and had fallen forwards over some barbed wire. That was cool...

[Goeth 0]

actually, I absolutely loved death animations of the original OFP - in general they are still the best u can find out there. But the ragdoll would have to be implemented if they plan to have flying corpses. right now in OFP the corpses launched in the air by explosion fly like a piece of plywood and keep on bouncing the most rediculous way upon landing. plus now in OFP dead bodies usually kinda get uplifted by a grenade explosion next to them - it looks like the body just get instantly frozen and move as one piece. So overall the ragdol should be added if dead bodies will be airborne so that they actually flip in the air and land properly. They should either get rid of flying corpses or keep it and introduce ragdoll for airborne characters.

I agree.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I had some kind of physics-demo thingy, it showed a character with partly ragdolls and partly anims, looked pretty good, and it takes the best from both. Bodys wont fall trough walls, but will still have a realistic animation while falling

BTW: Ragdolls are fun

[brataccas 0]

Im quite glad that ofp and armed assault (judgeing from the arma vid) that theres no ragdoll, I dont mind it, plus I like the way the soldiers fly in the air when shot by a tank etc .

[Mr_Tea 0]

I had some kind of physics-demo thingy, it showed a character with partly ragdolls and partly anims, looked pretty good, and it takes the best from both. Bodys wont fall trough walls, but will still have a realistic animation while falling

BTW: Ragdolls are fun

That picture is taken in F.E.A.R. , it uses no ragdoll physics. I own the directors edition of fear, in an video that is on the DVD one of the developers say, that they not realy use ragdoll physics. It is more "Stuntman" physics.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I had some kind of physics-demo thingy, it showed a character with partly ragdolls and partly anims, looked pretty good, and it takes the best from both. Bodys wont fall trough walls, but will still have a realistic animation while falling

BTW: Ragdolls are fun

That picture is taken in F.E.A.R. , it uses no ragdoll physics. I own the directors edition of fear, in an video that is on the DVD one of the developers say, that they not realy use ragdoll physics. It is more "Stuntman" physics.

Well, the effect is the same, i could have posted a HL2 pic but i was too lazy to make one

BTW: I prefer the FEAR physics, the bodys move a bit if you bump into them

[esti_the_big 0]

I Ragdoll would be implented, it must look good, the body should have realistic masses, max pane 2 and H&d 2 are still the best when it comes ragdolls. Peronally I'd prefer a bigger diversity in pre-made death animations, if they can maintain the quality of the ld animations it would be great. What should be implented is a hit recoil, meaning that when you shoot a character he reacts realistically (check out perfect dark on n64).

If done really good, ragdolls are ok, and if AA would use the ppu, ragdolls would be the best choice, since they wouldn't hit performance that much...

[Mr_Tea 0]

With that amount of troops, we will have in Armed Assault, it will hit the performance very hard i`m afraid. Most of the time, we have more troops in action than in other games.

[Heatseeker 0]

for me it would be enough if a a wounded (crippled) soldier (player) would actually bleed to death if he doesn't get medical attention.

as for ragdoll... please not in ArmA. seen it in BF2 and in AA and some of the death anims just look shait. like this for example:

http://www.pafbase.de/images/screens/stuhlgang.gif

so,

this guys got killed by a nade and the guy in the front looks like he fell asleep... no ragdoll for me...

Do you like boddies looking through walls more?

Bodies "looking" thru walls is not a animation issue, its a colision/clipping one .

Has for the animations i like some of the old ones and dislike others, i like the death sequence animation of soldier holding LAW alot but the others could be better.

The static flying bodies "issue" can be fixed by simply removing flying bodies, they were introduced with 1.75 RES (i think) and they look very exagerated, it looks weird because flying corpses were not present in the original game and the anims werent made for that.

[grayace 2]

Quote[/b] ]Bodies "looking" thru walls is not a animation issue, its a colision/clipping one

however, a static animation will cause some unrealistic movements (like looking thru) no matter it does have good collision box/cylinder whenever it occurs near another object (walls, tanks, etc) because it doesnt have the ability to interact with them... maybe a semi-static animation like its choosing premade animation according the available enviroment around or available movement place, so it wont have to lean itself over other objects...

[hoot 0]

And about "A LAW, a BMP and a bunch of Troops" combo well we need some GORE, those humanoids should be "blown" away into pieces and that would be the correct death animation for instance...

well dude, you're probably playing the wrong game and i do really hope such a "glorification" of death WON'T BECOME PART OF ARMA AND NGPCG! if you look for gore, make your own war and have fun with it!!! so, more realism in displaying painful deaths and bestiality makes a game not even better! its substance that counts, not perverse eye-candy...

[Spoock 3]

ArmA isn´t Game2 - It haven´t ragdoll!!!!!!

[grayace 2]

And about "A LAW, a BMP and a bunch of Troops" combo well we need some GORE, those humanoids should be "blown" away into pieces and that would be the correct death animation for instance...

well dude, you're probably playing the wrong game and i do really hope such a "glorification" of death WON'T BECOME PART OF ARMA AND NGPCG! if you look for gore, make your own war and have fun with it!!! so, more realism in displaying painful deaths and bestiality makes a game not even better! its substance that counts, not perverse eye-candy...

ah we are just discussing how it (death scenes) would look like better... and if its a war simulation may be it should show some gore and results of the firepower then maybe some people could think twice before thinking "good" of war and military...

and thinking of blown up by RPG is barely perverse but shooting with rifles upon people and presuming that they will die instant and painlessly is certainly childish

[Heatseeker 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bodies "looking" thru walls is not a animation issue, its a colision/clipping one

however, a static animation will cause some unrealistic movements (like looking thru) no matter it does have good collision box/cylinder whenever it occurs near another object (walls, tanks, etc) because it doesnt have the ability to interact with them... maybe a semi-static animation like its choosing premade animation according the available enviroment around or available movement place, so it wont have to lean itself over other objects...

If colision works well the body shouldnt clip thru objects but even if it does (seen it in alot of games) i can live with it if the efect isnt too dramatic, has long has it doesnt clip or "shake" like it does now it will be good enough for me and definetly better than seeing warpy/laggy ragdolls in MP or having the game chug down everytime a satchel kills 5 guys.

[grayace 2]

Quote[/b] ]i can live with it if the efect isnt too dramatic, as long as it doesnt clip or "shake" like it does now

Agreedx2, however that "shake" thing is a side effect of physics engine and its quite inevitable whereever two collision box/cylinder intersects unless engine is advanced...

[Mr_Tea 0]

OFP 1.0 told every player, WAR = NOT GOOD. We don`t need gore to show people what war is like. You die to easy and often in OFP to stick to the opinion "war is cool". And in real life you have no savegame.

[funnyguy1 0]

Imo, death anims are more realistic than ragdoll, however how do you want to simulate a dead body after finished death anim? I mean, It is still the same body, lying on the battlefield.

In the middle of the animation when a dead body colide with an object? Or when falling through a window.

Rag doll could simulate soldiers who aren`t able to move their legs or whatever.

You could drag stuned(?) or dead soldiers behind cover...

Many, many other things can be done with ragdoll, not only those ugly bf-like flying bodies..

[grayace 2]

NOTE: Don't think of this text is about supporting ragdoll or other kind of fancy visual effects!!! Its about supporting "strong visuals" after an explosion takes place near infantry at a reasonable level...

problem that I dont understand is, in every arcade (means cheap) shooter like Unreal, Halflife and similar ones people are fragging, disintegrating, blowing other players in a most bloody way for nothing (I mean just for fun) and when it comes to my beloved LAW and BMP and fellow soldiers, people say that they should die simply in a most dry way... then how can I explain who is watching my game and that (LAW&BMP&Fellas) situation? should I tell "ehm this simulation is the most realistic one but its not showing any "strong" scene due to "sensitive" player portfolio of this game... while others are blasting each other with laser stuff... that kind of idealism would just make it pathetic..

and btw I should remind you that DO NOT USE ECP mod for OFP, know why, when you blow a tank, there is a chance of some of tank crew getting out and starts to run while BURNING !!!! aaaa "how horrible" mummyyyy!!!!!

naa I would just yell DIIIIEEEEEEE mercilessly and I know that I couldnt get any better than that when I got "clipped" by enemy

EDIT: I put a note to prevent misunderstanding due to content of my post...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]and if its a war simulation may be it should show some gore and results of the firepower then maybe some people could think twice before thinking "good" of war and military...

That´s some funny reasoning...

I guess it´s quite the other way around. Teenies and kids get attracted by display of gore. It´s not the other way around.

If you want to have Gore like you suggest go to Iraq.

[grayace 2]

Quote[/b] ]...Teenies and kids get attracted by display of gore...

according to your POV you forgot to say, "while adults like to see clean deaths and not even blood" (stains the carpets right?)

its not about "attraction" its about "displaying" fella, and if you PEOPLE are this much against gore and offensive visuals WHY are you carrying a M-16 or frag grenades??? get stun and tazer guns and THEN I would like to see you on battlefield as much as you like to see me in Iraq...

EDIT: Why am I getting treated like I said "I wanna see naked babes running accross the battlefield!!!" all I want to see is some realistic results when an explosion takes place near "soft" personnel and I didnt say I want to see missing limbs or whatsoever.... when a bomb explodes near infantry its unbearable to watch soldiers die like "fell asleep" or fly like "piece of paper", it needs to be replaced by dissapearance of body for a little more accurate results...

[Heatseeker 0]

problem that I dont understand is, in every other arcade (means cheap) shooter like Unreal, Halflife and similar ones people are fragging, disintegrating, blowing other players in a most bloody way for nothing (I mean just for fun) and when it comes to my beloved LAW and BMP and fellow soldiers, people say that they should die simply in a most dry way...

Ok, has most of us know OPF is a HW intensive game and its not because of the old graphics (mostly models and textures, their not so bad imo..), efects or physics, its because of its scale, OPF (and ARMA will) render huge detailed environments with lots of a.i. units and animations running simultaniously and thats what sets it apart from all the last gen AAA stuff that only improves the eye candy department and remains small and limited (boo0o..)

Now Arma will introduce graphical improvements but the scale will actually increase meaning the game will not only be more detailed but also much bigger. Wich also means that despite optimisations it will remain a very demanding game.

Then comes the limitations of a game whose scale is unmatched, just like other games that focus on detail but are limited in size and features for that very same reason Armas scale will also limit the amount of detail in favor of more significant features and performance. Then there is the fact that with such a large amount of improvement room some minor and yet complex and resource intensive features should be low on priority list of development...

So what do i mean?

<span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>I really dont give a phuck if 100 detailed, animated units with great a.i. on a gigantic and detailed map use ragdolls and i understand that the devs have to sacrifice eye candy in favor of more important game features.</span>   .

[grayace 2]

I really wonder where I asked for RAGDOLL and more CPU/Bandwidth for death animations (as per you quoted me)

I agree that workload should be used on other areas (where is my dynamic campaign) but about death scenes, it could be improved by using same tech or even more CPU friendly way and could get a little realistic when you clip a rocket or HE round in the middle of a soft target like infantry (and dissappearing bodies are just REDUCING Memory load on RAM which means easier for CPU)

[Heatseeker 0]

My bad, i was the one who brought the LAW>BMP explosion kills soldiers combination in this discussion regarding ragdolls .

I interpreted you coment of dry has related to it not being ragdolled.

I like reasonable gore but not mutilations, i find the gore level in OPF very acceptable and with more detailed soldier models being used the current amount of gore seems fine to me, maybe because i have my concerns or priorities focused on other features and improvements .