O2 light license

[vektorboson 8]

Hi,

this is just to clear up as there is the myth that BIS owns your addons, which is wrong.

First of all, here is the O2Light license we all agree to, when installing O2Light:

Quote[/b] ]

IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY:  THE ACCOMPANYING PROGRAM (WHICH INCLUDES COMPUTER SOFTWARE PROGRAM, THE MEDIA AND RELATED DOCUMENTATION IN PRINTED OR ELECTRONIC FORM) IS LICENSED TO YOU ON THE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW, WHICH CONSTITUTES A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND THE BOHEMIA INTERACTIVE STUDIO S.R.O. ("BI STUDIO").  BY OPENING THIS PACKAGE, AND/OR INSTALLING OR OTHERWISE USING THE PROGRAM, YOU AGREE TO BE LEGALLY BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITH BI STUDIO.  IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO USE THE PROGRAM.

This legal document is an agreement between you, the end user, and BI Studio, for BI Studio's Oxygen and Oxygen Viewer tools, which includes computer software and associated media, electronic documentation, and any upgrades, modified versions, or updates of the software licensed to you by BI Studio, (collectively "Software"). BI Studio is willing to license the software to you only upon the condition that you accept all of the terms contained in this agreement

GRANT OF LICENSE

A. BI Studio grants to you a personal, nonexclusive license to make and use the Software for the purpose of designing, developing, testing, and producing non-commercial game content for PC CD-ROM game Operation Flashpoint provided that you are the only individual using said Software and provided that you do not modify or alter the Software. You may also make personal copies (either in hard copy or electronic form) of any electronic documents included with the Software only for your personal use.

B. You acknowledge and agree that BI Studio is not obligated to provide technical or other support of any kind for the Software.

C. You acknowledge and agree that BI Studio is providing you the Software free of charge in order to allow you creation of non-commercial game content for Operation Flashpoint only and you agree to not commercially exploit any game content you may create using the Software without  BI Studio's prior written permission.

Copyright/Proprietary Rights

You agree that BI Studio and/or its licensors own all right, title and interest in the Software and in all patents, trademarks, trade names, inventions, copyrights, know how and trade secrets relating to the design, manufacture, operation or service of the Software. All rights not expressly granted herein are hereby reserved by BI Studio. Unauthorized copying or use of the Software, or failure to comply with the restrictions provided in this Agreement, will result in automatic termination of this Agreement. Nothing in this Agreement shall change BI Studio's or any of its licensors' ownership rights to their respective intellectual property, including but not limited to the Software.

Restrictions

You agree not to rent, lease, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software.  You agree not to distribute the Software, any of its parts, or any sample files provided by BI Studio for use with the Software without the prior written permission of BI Studio.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT AND OTHER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS AND TREATIES. BI STUDIO OR ITS SUPPLIERS OWN THE TITLE, COPYRIGHT, AND OTHER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS IN THE SOFTWARE. COPYING THE SOFTWARE EXCEPT AS PERMITTED BY THIS AGREEMENT IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT UNDER THE LAWS OF YOUR COUNTRY. IF YOU COPY THE SOFTWARE IN VIOLATION OF THIS AGREEMENT THEN YOU ARE VIOLATING THE LAW. YOU MAY BE LIABLE TO BI STUDIO FOR DAMAGES AND YOU MAY BE SUBJECT TO CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES

BI STUDIO DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. BI  SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER FOR THE RESULTS OBTAINED THROUGH THE USE OF THE SOFTWARE.

IN NO EVENT WILL BI STUDIO BE LIABLE TO THE OTHER PARTY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER BASED ON BREACH OF CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), PRODUCT LIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE, AND WHETHER OR NOT BI STUDIO HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

This Agreement represents the complete agreement concerning this license between the parties and supersedes all prior agreements

and representations between them.  It may be amended only by a writing executed by both parties.  If any provision of this Agreement is held to be unenforceable for any reason, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable and the remaining provisions of this Agreement shall not be affected.

Now to all people who say, BIS owns our models, please show me the statement. There is no such statement; the myth stems probably from this paragraph: You agree that BI Studio and/or its licensors own all right, title and interest in the Software and in all patents, trademarks, trade names, inventions, copyrights, know how and trade secrets relating to the design, manufacture, operation or service of the Software..

As you see at the end, there stands of the Software, not "of the content created with the software".

Just to make it clear: You own your work, not BIS. BIS never claims ownership of your work, BIS claims ownership over O2Light (which we all agree to, don't we?) and acompanying media ("data" and "data3D"). BIS just imposes restrictions for commercial exploitation of O2light created models.

So please refrain in future from posting the "BIS owns us"-nonsense we have seen lately.

Nuff said  

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

I give this thread 1 hour before it get's locked...

I think Placebo said enough about this matter.

You did clear things up though, which is a good thing, but I think this thread will very quickly end up in a discussion like in the thread "Did BIS sold your free addons?"

[Guest major gandhi]

wow that's really new to me. Thx for clearing that up.

[Heatseeker 0]

I give this thread 1 hour before it get's locked...

I think Placebo said enough about this matter.

You did clear things up though, which is a good thing, but I think this thread will very quickly end up in a discussion like in the thread "Did BIS sold your free addons?"

Actually while the two topics might share some comon discussion elements this one still has its own diferent theme for discussion, if people keep that in mind and the moderators moderate properly instead of being lazy and locking it for no good reason it might stand a chance .

[j w 0]

If you want to model and make money of it I suggest you get your hands on a modellingprogram not connected to OFP, like a student version of Maya, which shouldn't cost to much.

Or isn't that what you're meaning?

EDIT:

...operation or service of the Software..

Isn't that connected to the models you create by the software, since making a model in O2 is a operation of the software. I think you got this a little wrong... (No offense)

[Chris Death 0]

hmm - i don't see a reason, why the thread shouldn't get

locked because there's nothing to discuss here.

However, even if out of the eula would have been comming

out that bi would have owned the work been done with

their software, then there still would have been stuff like

textures or 3rd party imported models (some allow only

non-comercial use of them also).

~S~ CD

[colonel_klink 0]

Quote[/b] ]C. You acknowledge and agree that BI Studio is providing you the Software free of charge in order to allow you creation of non-commercial game content for Operation Flashpoint only and you agree to not commercially exploit any game content you may create using the Software without BI Studio's prior written permission.

Just wondering if anybody has tested the final part of this clause?

It could be that with a well thought out business plan, commercial quality content, a clear marketing strategy (ie targeted client such as law enforcement, military etc), and BIS approval people could perhaps enter into a business relationship with BIS. I would presume, under these conditions, that the content and target market would have to be clearly defined, and the content not be available to the general public. Of course care would have to be taken that user content is not exploited.

Now what I am saying is purely supposition, but businesses often enter into private agreements with others who have a business proposition. Normally this is via some sort of licence agreement i.e BI Studio's prior written permission or some such agreement.

In this case has this ever been tested? (Apart from Darwars Ambush)

[Messiah 2]

i never accepted that BIS owned my work, as i'd read the agreement as i always do with agreements (instead of those who skip to the bottom and click 'I agree'

of course though, the point still remains that i cant sell my work created using O2, unless, as klinkers pointed out, i seek permission.

simple enough

[Heatseeker 0]

I doubt BIS would give anyone free permission though, what klinky is sugesting BIS have already done with their own VBS1 product, result of a business agreement betwean BIS and 7th, having permission to use the tools without having the legal rights to explore the OPF game engine comercialy would be useless .

Even if you could explore OPF addons comercialy you just couldnt use the OPF game in any possible way so you better forget all about it and just wait for armed assault .

[sanctuary 19]

I remember there were 2 campaigns that went commercial "Between the Lines" and "Planet of War" , don't know if there have been more.

So i guess such agreement like the one noted in Colonel Klink's message has certainly been done already.

[Heatseeker 0]

I remember there were 2 campaigns that went commercial "Between the Lines" and "Planet of War" , don't know if there have been more.

So i guess such agreement like the one noted in Colonel Klink's message has certainly been done already.

hmm, you sure those were legal , and where does codemasters stand here? I sure have my doubts about the legality of such campaigns.

Anyway the point here is that user made addons cant be used comercialy without permission from BIS even if these are their authors intelectual property, but being their authors IP BIS or anyone else cant use them comercialy either .

I remind that the user made OPF material that was adopted for VBS1 wasnt just thrown there .

[Messiah 2]

what i'm more interested in, is what is the legality of the O2 models we create... yes, they're our intelectual property, but we cant use the models comercially because BIS own the rights to O2 and have stated we cant use the models commercially.

if i were to use my models, say, for another game i'd be curious whether BIS would persue me for it, but more to the point, would they allow it

they seem like nice people though

[JdB 151]

what i'm more interested in, is what is the legality of the O2 models we create... yes, they're our intelectual property, but we cant use the models comercially because BIS own the rights to O2 and have stated we cant use the models commercially.

if i were to use my models, say, for another game i'd be curious whether BIS would persue me for it, but more to the point, would they allow it

Quote[/b] ]C. You acknowledge and agree that BI Studio is providing you the Software free of charge in order to allow you creation of non-commercial game content for Operation Flashpoint only and you agree to not commercially exploit any game content you may create using the Software without BI Studio's prior written permission.

Well, if I understand the above quote right, then you are only allowed to use the software for free if you restrict your work to non-commercial work for Operation Flashpoint.

Quote[/b] ]Copyright/Proprietary Rights

You agree that BI Studio and/or its licensors own all right, title and interest in the Software and in all patents, trademarks, trade names, inventions, copyrights, know how and trade secrets relating to the design, manufacture, operation or service of the Software. Nothing in this Agreement shall change BI Studio's or any of its licensors' ownership rights to their respective intellectual property, including but not limited to the Software.

''own all right, title and interest in the Software and in all patents, trademarks, trade names, inventions''

Notice the ''inventions'' part, is a model from Oxygen not an ''invention'' from it's creator?

''not limited to the Software''

So also to the things created by this software, it is not common to leave room for guessing in a license agreement, unless they specifically want it to be unclear.

[Messiah 2]

it'd be interesting to see it played out. I've seen some addon makers here port their models over to BF2 - granted, it's not a commercial venture, but it doesnt comply with the 'soley for operation flashpoint' part of the agreement.

what i honestly believe, is that BIS are more concerned with making sure their free software is used for the development of their game - keeping it alive and going, instead of being used for other games...

the models that are created using O2 are hardly those of a commercial use (unless selling ofp addons etc) and it doesnt match 3ds max for quality. I'd doubt BIS would follow it up if you ported models to CS or something (as has been done in reverse in the past). It's more the making money side of it.

well... thats how i understand it

[JdB 151]

the models that are created using O2 are hardly those of a commercial use (unless selling ofp addons etc) and it doesnt match 3ds max for quality.

You can make just as good models with O2 as you can with 3DSMAX, it just takes a while longer

The real difference is in rendering (much, much better), and mapping (also much, much better once you get the hang of it).

[LennyD 0]

I give this thread 1 hour before it get's locked...

I think Placebo said enough about this matter.

You did clear things up though, which is a good thing, but I think this thread will very quickly end up in a discussion like in the thread "Did BIS sold your free addons?"

I think it is important to talk about things like this. Threads like this do prevent missunderstanding and drama. If the com would be more informed about what is happening (example BBN) there would be no rumours or arguements....

If statements would be given what is going on and why, people would not panic, if they find out a nother way and have limited infos....

"you see something you don't understand...so you turn it around and add something until it makes sence"

[vektorboson 8]

...operation or service of the Software..

Isn't that connected to the models you create by the software, since making a model in O2 is a operation of the software. I think you got this a little wrong... (No offense)

I think you got this a little wrong, no offense either.

Models are the result of an operation, not the operation itself.

You get the right to operate the software; BIS has the right to disallow you to operate the software.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Copyright/Proprietary Rights

You agree that BI Studio and/or its licensors own all right, title and interest in the Software and in all patents, trademarks, trade names, inventions, copyrights, know how and trade secrets relating to the design, manufacture, operation or service of the Software. Nothing in this Agreement shall change BI Studio's or any of its licensors' ownership rights to their respective intellectual property, including but not limited to the Software.

''own all right, title and interest in the Software and in all patents, trademarks, trade names, inventions''

Notice the ''inventions'' part, is a model from Oxygen not an ''invention'' from it's creator?

It's not an invention regarding the software. Invention in software means, that you introduce some revolutionary algorithms or workflow (actually we could argue about that, but this is meant).

Quote[/b] ]

''not limited to the Software''

So also to the things created by this software, it is not common to leave room for guessing in a license agreement, unless they specifically want it to be unclear.

Read that sentence again:

Nothing in this Agreement shall change BI Studio's or any of its licensors' ownership rights to their respective intellectual property, ...

We are the licensors of this software, and this agreement doesn't change our rights regarding our IP.

So even if there is a passage in the license, where BIS says: We own your work, that passage would be invalid because of this sentence, as everything we create is our "intellectual property" (I really hate that word! no matter what the license says.

[Daniel 0]

Quote[/b] ]... (example BBN) ...

I think I've missed something, what is BBN? I saw it mentioned in the RKSL thread too.

[Shadow NX 1]

Daniel @ Nov. 20 2005,16:15)]

Quote[/b] ]... (example BBN) ...

I think I've missed something, what is BBN? I saw it mentioned in the RKSL thread too.

Look here

[Daniel 0]

Ah right, thanks. I'd already googled it was about to say something about all the addons in the video, but that thread you posted has cleared that up.

[Heatseeker 0]

[drunkmode]O2 work just cant be comercialy exploited without permission from both BIS and the author!!!

But what about everything else? Tools, scripts, sounds, missions, etc.

What about all the tutorials and resources that are freely available on the net regarding OPF mission and addon development? Can these be exploited comercialy? There is alot more to OPF modding other than models...[/drunkmode]

*takes a nap...* .

[JdB 151]

[drunkmode]O2 work just cant be comercialy exploited without permission from both BIS and the author!!!

But what about everything else? Tools, scripts, sounds, missions, etc.

What about all the tutorials and resources that are freely available on the net regarding OPF mission and addon development? Can these be exploited comercialy? There is alot more to OPF modding other than models...[/drunkmode]

Missions are created using the OFP mission editor, which falls under the license agreement that you accept when you install. I am pretty sure that there is a part which says that no produced result of working with OFP can be exploited without their permission.

Tutorials do not contain anything directly from BIS, except the design in a screenshot, which I am sure is copyrighted to prevent other game-devs ripping the game, changing a few things and then selling it again to gamers. Like with the O2 license, if it is released as a free product, tutorials and other resources, such as walkthrougs are fine as long as they don't deal about reverse engineering/making cheats/trainers for OFP.

[shinRaiden 0]

( IANAL, also I dont' speak for CM, BIS, or BIA or any other party in this post. )

That's covered in the OFP, Gold Edt., and RES EULA's.

Paragraph 2 section 1 of the end user license from Codemasters, in effect in Codemasters marketing jurisdiction :

Quote[/b] ]

... Codemasters grants you the non-exclusive non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the program solely for your personal use on a single computer.

On a side note, that seems to ban used game sales, but that's another topic. In this domain however it states that the product is licensed to an individual, and not to an organization, so technically you're not supposed to make your licensed copy available to people other than yourself.

Section 2 item 2 :

Quote[/b] ]

... transfer or make available to any other person the Program, in whole or in part, or use the Program or any other part thereof in any commercial context, including but not limited to use in a ... commercial location in which multiple users may access the program or, for the avoidance of doubt, for making any modifications, add-ons, or derivative works for commercial exploitation. ...

Here it's stating again that you can only use OFP in a personal non-shared non-commercial setting. Additionally the restriction in placed on creating content for commercial exploitation. This obviously restricts selling - without a Codemasters license, and BI license if BI content or tools are used - community content, but in my humble opinion, it also prohibits transfering freely content for commercial usage.

In other words, you clearly can't SELL, and I believe you also can't GIVE content to commercial users, without you having an appropiate license from CM / BI for commercial usage on your part as the developer or on the part of the client, regardless of any real compensation or lack thereof.

So in the case of OFP, and VBS community content as well, my understanding is that you can't sell and you can't give, without a license. Fair enough imho.

The last distinction is original tool usage. For map work, I use Microdem and such universal free-for-commercial use tools. The underlying data is copyright the USGS for free-for-commercial usage. Once that data is converted into OFP or VBS usable content however, afaik then I'm restricted from selling or giving that processed content to commercial users, unless that work of mine is properly licensed by BI or CM. But until I turn the generic data into OFP / VBS data, I'm free to do what ever I please with it, within the scope of the USGS copyright, and that of the other tools.

Using O2 instead of Maya or Max as the original source editor instead of a final processing editor may most likely 'contaminate' your work with the O2 license restrictions, ie you probably can't use O2 as a free alternative to Max to make models for a commercial project for BF2, not to mention being a heretic for considering that.

The final question is to what extent that usage of BI documentation and references, as well as assumed documentation obtained in the greyer areas of content reverse-engineering, are also 'contaminated' by a 'status quo' gentleman's agreement that BI/CM will over look the content reverse engineering out of community development intrest, provided that BI/CM's exclusive rights to commercial exploitation remain unquestioned and unchallenged.

[Heatseeker 0]

I think CM can be ruled out, they own "our" copies of OPF:R and the name Operation Flashpoint, nothing else right ?

Has for the rest it has been partially covered in the thread.

User made content created with BIS provided, free tools cant be used comercialy without BIS written permission but what about the author of said content? Could BIS authorise the comercial use of content made in O2 or visitor without the authors permission? Would it depend wether the readme file included with an addon covers such things has ownership and authorisation for use and distribution or not?

Do you really own your model?

[Hit_Sqd_Ack 0]

They have clearly broken the rules... but

how many of you have taken the time to copyright your work?

If I were you I'd just take this to a lawyer who specializes in this industry, he could tell you if you have a shot or not. It really does not look good, but I do feel for you guys who have had your work stolen. I'm very sorry.

- Ack