Hurricane Katrina!

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, a lame ass LEO gives the signal to some ladies to show your boobs and this gives justification for others to shoot at rescue workers? Thank god that Lt. Gen. Russel Honore does not read this board. That's BS...

Now calm down ,it was only a figure of speech ,afcourse not rescuing someone doesn't give another right to kill.Should have mentioned it was not ment litteraly.

I was giving my impression of what would Lt. Gen Honore say. The "That's BS... " is him. My sacrasm radar broke down and could not pick that comment.

Quote[/b] ]The Red Cross is appealing for people overseas to contribute money to its Hurricane Katrina Appeal. But why does the world's richest nation need handouts?

Maybe because the public response was not has big when Red Cross and co. were asking after 9/11. Also, oil producation was hampered in the gulf coast region. BLAH BLAH

[Bernadotte 0]

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Not the R-word!!</span>

What's up with Bush and others insisting that the displaced people of NO are not to be call refugees?  Isn't that what you call people forced to flee their homes and seek refuge elsewhere?

The Whitehouse suggests that the refugee title is too demeaning for American citizens.  What an obnoxious slap in the face to the millions of refugees scattered across the globe.  When American leaders imply that the value of individuals is primarily assessed through what they possess then they ultimately just reinforce a nasty stereotypical view that the rest of the world holds of Americans being superficial and hyper-materialistic.

that wasn't him. that was somebody who was interviewed on CNN i can't remember who it was and i can't find the interview.

Did you see his press conference held about an hour ago? That's when he said it.

We can probably get a transcript tomorrow if the media don't pick up on it immediately.

[denoir 0]

The Red Cross is appealing for people overseas to contribute money to its Hurricane Katrina Appeal. But why does the world's richest nation need handouts?

Because the scale of the thing. No single country has enough emergency equipment, rations etc to handle something of this scale. And the amount of cash that has to be freed immediately is huge. It takes time to free that kind of cash.

The really big cost in all of this though is yet to come, which is the rebuilding of the whole place. And this will be financed mostly by insurance companies and the US government. AFIK there have so far been no requests of any large loans to the IMF or the world bank, but it will probably come.

I must admit though that the international aid did bring some surrealistic eye candy. Such as German soldiers coming with Luftwaffe planes and running around Louisiana, yelling "Achtung" (I shit you not, saw it on a news clip earlier today). Just two weeks ago, the notion of armed foreign troops on US soil would have been completely absurd.

But I think it goes to show how serious the situation is. In Bush's first speech he said:

"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we haven't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy, and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country is going to rise up and take care of it.''

A while later, Condoleezza Rice made a u-turn saying:

"no offers of assistance will be refused"

And a day later or so, the US government specifically asked the EU and NATO for help.

And I don't think there is anything controversial with that. That's the way it should work. Sure, you can ask how come the US can't free up the funds needed, but that is really irrelevant. This money and aid is not for the US government, but for the victims of the natural disaster. They shouldn't be punished for any incompetence that their government might have displayed in the matter.

[hellfish6 7]

I must admit though that the international aid did bring some surrealistic eye candy. Such as German soldiers coming with Luftwaffe planes and running around Louisiana, yelling "Achtung" (I shit you not, saw it on a news clip earlier today). Just two weeks ago, the notion of armed foreign troops on US soil would have been completely absurd.

To be honest, we've always got armed troops in the US. Singapore has a fighter squadron (or wing?) permanantly based in Texas, I think the Germans have a squadron-sized element rotating out of Nevada and I'm pretty sure there are other detachments here and there. When I was at Fort Benning in '96 we had an Argentinian platoon and an Uruguayan company there.

Now to have them doing something besides training is a bit unusual... but still welcome. The real thing that would be surreal for me is to see the Dutch and Canadian warships cruising off the Gulf Coast.

[denoir 0]

Jesse Jackson aka "King of all Blacks" said that the term "refugee" is a racist word if used against Americans (esp. blacks). Since, Bush was told he does not care about blacks, the president is trying to gain favor with Jesse and the race pimps... Also, he wants to properly use the word.

Yeah, I saw him saying that and concluded that the man is a moron. He is really not helping any of the people by trying to mask their desperate situation.

And yes, if Bush has adopted it it's because the pressure he is under from people saying that the response was so bad because the victims were black and/or poor. I do think there is some truth behind those accusations, but I'd say it is a much more deep social problem that has to be solved here.

As for Bush, as much as I dislike the man, I don't see how any major blame can be directed at him. What could he have done differently? It was obvious that he didn't grasp the extent of the destruction at first, but that probably made no difference. I read one conservative editorial that said:

"Sure, he could have responded faster, but ultimately he was failed by the bureaucrat's below him in the government".

And for once I partially agree with that. Bush actually asked for a complete evacuation of NO, days before the mayor decided to do it. As for moral leadership, it's one thing when you're attacked, then you can promise to hunt down the responsible and make sure it never happens again.. but in this case, it was a natural disaster. Nobody is directly to blame and there are no promises to be made.

I mean in the end, Bush is just one man who has to rely on the whole machinery to work for him to have any influence. When you have an idiot FEMA director who says "nobody could have predicted the flood after the hurricane".. well, there's your problem. There's no possibility for Bush to micro-manage every single agency in the US government.

Of course, one could say that he indirectly contributed to the problems by selecting an idiot as a FEMA director and by cutting down on the Army engineering corps funds (which lead to the levies not being upgraded). But that's all very indirect. There are people who are far more responsible for the nonchalance and gross incompetence that the government displayed the first days of the disaster.

Hellfish:

Quote[/b] ]To be honest, we've always got armed troops in the US. Singapore has a fighter squadron (or wing?) permanantly based in Texas, I think the Germans have a squadron-sized element rotating out of Nevada and I'm pretty sure there are other detachments here and there. When I was at Fort Benning in '96 we had an Argentinian platoon and an Uruguayan company there.

Ah, yes, but are they running around yelling "Achtung!"?

[Supah 0]

Ah the pitfalls of the ignominious Engrish language, you're obviously not using the American English dictionary for spelling.

.... ok .... Let's just say my english is better then 98% of what I hear on fox news "Y'all"

Quote[/b] ]So let's dredge the Mississippi River to Baton Rouge, build a new mega-port outside New Orleans in the middle of the Delta wetlands, dredge the rest of the swamps to deepen the canals, truck in out-of-state fill to build massive levee walls, and basically have the effect of placing an open-pit coal mine in the middle of a unique ecological habitat? I always get a bit of a chuckle when the human rights people get in fights with the environmentalists, until I remember that either way, whoever wins humanity is screwed.

Google for the term "Waddenzee" and "english" to be enlightened. You can protect reclaimed land without destroying tidal planes in front of them. We have been doing it here for over 500 years now in one form or another.

Breaker44

Quote[/b] ]hey, whatever. I guess the discussion of botched antiterror raids and the failiure of other natural disaster warnings/responses does not merit criticism,

Sure they do, after almost every major disaster we here in the Netherlands have independant commitees who research the events and put forward recommendations which are usually followed up on.

Quote[/b] ]just cause it is the US is the only damn reason you folks wanna banter over who's to blame.

No, Just cause the fork up is so massive and plain to see to the world we are sharing point of views about what went wrong.

Quote[/b] ]While you guys point the finger, people are suffering.

Actually what would be more correct is "While we are waiting for the aid you guys offered to be accepted by the white house people are suffering". Europe has offered massive amounts of aid but most of these offers are falling on deaf ears. It's not that we don't want to help, your government doesnt appear to want the help in the first place.

Quote[/b] ]

Just the other day, a couple of guys from my unit got depolyed to Louisiana with an MP unit. Just pray for the victims-do what you can. I appreciate the gestures made by other nations, though they are not necesarry to complete cleanup, they do assist and help.

Best of luck to your unitmates

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]But why does the world's richest nation need handouts?

Because Americans are human beings also and they suffered terrible damage from the disaster.

The yanks have given hand outs to other nations in the past when they where hit by disasters. Looking at your logic perhaps they shouldn't have and instead kept the money for now when they got hit. What ever happens though the US isn't entitled to a hand out from any one, that goes for all nations. When other nations help one another it's great thing, but people seem to take it for granted like they are entitled to it.

What ever, I'm really on the verge of just not caring at all. It's a tragedy what happened and is happening, then again the whole human race is a tragedy.

[Tovarish 0]

I must admit though that the international aid did bring some surrealistic eye candy. Such as German soldiers coming with Luftwaffe planes and running around Louisiana, yelling "Achtung" (I shit you not, saw it on a news clip earlier today). Just two weeks ago, the notion of armed foreign troops on US soil would have been completely absurd.

...

A while later, Condoleezza Rice made a u-turn saying:

"no offers of assistance will be refused"

It could get even more surrealistic, but I kind of doubt this offer will be taken up.

Quote[/b] ]

Cuba reiterates medical aid offer to the United States

PRESIDENT Fidel Castro last night reiterated Cuba’s disposition to help Hurricane Katrina victims in spite of the silence of Washington regarding Cuba’s aid offer.

Cuba reiterates medical aid offer to the United StatesFidel met on Sunday evening with 1,586 doctors toting backpacks filled with medicine and essential equipment for treating people in emergency conditions like those in the region lashed by the hurricane in the neighboring country.

The president said that Cuba had fulfilled its commitment, confirmed by the rapid constitution of the medical force to aid those affected by Katrina in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.

He noted that because of its proximity to the affected areas, it was possible for Cuba to send 1,100 doctors to save people in danger of dying, but the number of those called up had risen to 1,586.

"Forty-eight hours have passed, and we have not received any response to our offer," he noted. "We will wait patiently for as long as it takes," he added.

If no response arrives, or if Cuba’s cooperation were not necessary, it would not be any cause for discouragement among our ranks, he added.

"Very much on the contrary, we would be satisfied that we had fulfilled our duty, and extremely happy to know that not one more U.S. citizen out of those who suffered the painful and treacherous blow of Hurricane Katrina would die without medical attention, if that were to be the cause for our doctors’ absence," he affirmed.

During the meeting, and at the proposal of Fidel, the group of doctors was named the Henry Reeve Medical Brigade, in honor of a man from the United States who gave his life during the first Cuban Independence War against the Spanish colonial power.

The Cuban president stated that in this kind of situation, it didn’t matter how rich a country might be, or the number of its scientists or technical advances. "What is required at this moment is a team of young, well-trained professionals who, with a minimum of resources, can be sent where human beings are in danger of dying."

He affirmed that in the case of Cuba, being geographically close to the affected areas, the circumstances were appropriate for offering aid to the U.S. people.

He explained that each one of the doctors was equipped with two backpacks full of medicines and essential equipment for diagnosing and treating many different diseases.

Cuba has more than 130,000 health professionals, he noted, of whom more than 25,000 are on international missions in Latin America, Asia and Africa.

The medical brigade standing ready to go to the United States includes 1,097 specialists in comprehensive general medicine; 351 general and intensive care doctors; 72 with specialties in more than one area, and 66 specialists in cardiology, pediatrics, surgery, gastroenterology and other areas.

The Cuban medical brigade members have an average of 10 years of professional experience and an average age of 32. (PL)

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2005/septiembre/lun5/37reitera.html

[hellfish6 7]

Too bad. I think it's a perfect opportunity to start rebuilding that relationship. Castro is going away someday, we may as well get started on the transition now.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas.</span>

(Former firstlady Barbara Bush after touring the Houston Astrodome "Evacuee" Center)

There goes the neighbourhood, eh Barb?

[Tovarish 0]

Too bad. I think it's a perfect opportunity to start rebuilding that relationship. Castro is going away someday, we may as well get started on the transition now.

I'd say it was time to start rebuilding that relationship on April 15th, 1959, but that's for another thread

[hellfish6 7]

I agree. But yeah, 'nother thread.

[Sophion-Blue 0]

just got news today. Around half my squad (CAP073) is being deployed to Louisiana for disaster relief. They leave Saturday and will be down there for a week, God be with them .

[der bastler 0]

The yanks have given hand outs to other nations in the past when they where hit by disasters. Looking at your logic perhaps they shouldn't have and instead kept the money for now when they got hit.

Well, I don't mind medical supplies, field water treatment facilities, THW, BW Pios etc... You can have it, we don't need it atm (next flood in eastern Germany should occur around October). But why for haven's sake did America demand oil from our strategic resources first?

[Supah 0]

Now President Bush is going to lead an inquiry into the failures of the political component .... wow ..... THAT's going to be fair and balanced like a FoxNews special

[mattxr 9]

Quote[/b] ]But why does the world's richest nation need handouts?

   Because Americans are human beings also and they suffered terrible damage from the disaster.

    The yanks have given hand outs to other nations in the past when they where hit by disasters. Looking at your logic perhaps they shouldn't have and instead kept the money for now when they got hit. What ever happens though the US isn't entitled to a hand out from any one, that goes for all nations. When other nations help one another it's great thing, but people seem to take it for granted like they are entitled to it.

     What ever, I'm really on the verge of just not caring at all. It's a tragedy what happened and is happening, then again the whole human race is a tragedy.

yes but those are poor nations who lost everything...

america just lost one state.. im sure theres many other states who could give stuff and Mr. Presedent has tones of goverment cash.. wheres all that.. maybe that just goes towards costs of iraq.. blah blah blah

at least everythings getting back to normal and the waters slowly going.. but this should of been done days ago..

[Baz 0]

Hellfish:

Quote[/b] ]To be honest, we've always got armed troops in the US. Singapore has a fighter squadron (or wing?) permanantly based in Texas, I think the Germans have a squadron-sized element rotating out of Nevada and I'm pretty sure there are other detachments here and there. When I was at Fort Benning in '96 we had an Argentinian platoon and an Uruguayan company there.

Ah, yes, but are they running around yelling "Achtung!"?

LMAO.... Its in writing all over the inside of my BMW's hood.... But what you really have to worry about are the German soldiers saying HALT! Now thats scarry... Imagine some WW2 vet being stopped at a German checkpoint in the USA, would bring back some memories no doubt.

[Sophion-Blue 0]

america just lost one state.. im sure theres many other states who could give stuff.

It didn't just hit one. It hit like 80% of the gulf coast. Alabama, Florida, and Mississippi. 20% of imports washed away. about 50% oil production in the gulf coast gone. Thats a good size dent in the US econimy.

Good example on why your primary source should be solely the news, they concentrate on only a few things. "zoom out" and look at the events as a whole.

[shinRaiden 0]

Sheesh, ==> <== ya'll weren't supposed to take my comments about digging the swamps so technically serious on the surface. I'm not saying that dikes can't be built and levees strengthened, I was just pointing out how that people wouldn't want to make or allow the compromises needed to get the job done.

The problem with upgrading and maintaining the levees is that if the city spends n billion on the infrastructure, that's a % out of the municipal budget. On the other hand, the city's not on the tab for the insurance, even if 10 billion yesterday could have prevented 100 billion today, because they think it's someone else's money. There's a very serious and myopic misunderstanding of the entire concept of insurance in the US, and sooner or later there will come a very harsh reality check. Insurance is something that you do not plan to use, period. It's fundamentally and fatally flawed to view it as a free or cheap savings system. Insurance investing is designed for long-term growth, and if you're raiding it like your ice cream money piggy bank, then you're stabbing the economy in the back on top of the disaster.

I know wetlands are crucial flood control components, as I've mentined earlier developers, beaurucrats, and environmentalists in the US are all tied up in messy political mexican standoffs with legal guns to each others heads, so the result is either business as usual - using antiquated non-environmentally sound management - or other policies of institutional atrophy to prevent any sort of progress.

We had a situation here recently where the environmentalists were up in arms about old rotting septic tanks leeching into a portion of the Puget Sound. Problem was though that all those tanks were outside incorporated city limits and county growth management zones, so it was illegal for those homeowners to connect to the county sewer - to mitigate environmental pollution - because that would theoretically allow for suburban sprawl.

Similarly in New Orleans, you have canals where one side is dense suburban tracts, and the other side Alligator Paradise. Significantly fortifying the levees will require some degree of environmental impact studies, and are contestable in the courts. In Arkansas (the next state to the north of Louisiana) researchers claim to have rediscovered a 'lost colony' of Ivory-Billed Woodpeckers, previously thought to be extinct outside Cuba. They're talking about siezing only about 5 million acres as an emergency wildlife refuge. What if they find some exotic insect that escaped out of the swamps into New Orleans?

I happen to think that a - at least partially - off-shore replacement port would be great idea. River navigation and continual delta dredging have had a significant economic impact on operations for the Port of New Orleans. But that would be an entirely new idea and construction, for which an endless mountain of studies and permitting processes would grind into oblivion. Additionally, road, rail, power, and pipeline corriders would have to be extended across the heart of the delta to the port facility. That will never be allowed to happen, so what we'll see is the duct-tape and plaster solution to continue business as usual leaving the existing problems deliberately in place to continue to raid the system.

[Baz 0]

Sheesh, ==> <== ya'll weren't supposed to take my comments so technically serious. I'm not saying that dikes can't be built and levees strengthened, I was just pointing out how that people wouldn't want to make or allow the compromises needed to get the job done.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "dikes" what I understand, is that that word is used to classify homosexual females... I hope i am misunderstanding.. I mean i'm sure NO had lots of dikes... But no need to be reconstructing them.. i'd worry more about the levees.

BTW I just googled "dike" I suggest that nobody else do that... I found out the hard way

[shinRaiden 0]

In american English, the levee is spelled with an "i".

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dike for more clarification.

[hellfish6 7]

Quote[/b] ]Three CH-47 Chinook helicopters and a 38-strong crew from the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) arrived at Fort Polk, Louisiana, on the afternoon of 1 Sep (local time) to assist in the relief operations in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

The RSAF pilots, aircrew and technicians will be working closely with the Texas Army National Guard in the disaster relief operations, undertaking re-supply and airlift missions.

The RSAF's Peace Prairie detachment in Grand Prairie, Texas, has worked with the Texas Army National Guard on other relief missions in the past, including the relief operations in the aftermath of Hurricane Floyd in North Carolina in 1999, and fire-fighting and flood relief operations in Texas in 2000.

From US Embassy in Singapore.

[Baz 0]

Reports of E Coli and other bacteria found in the toxic, god knows what infested standing water. A relative of Cholora has been found in the water as well. 4 confirmed deaths due to that relative bacteria being inhaled by people. Reports of dead bodies floating in the water being bloated and sometimes the bodies also "opened" due to being in the toxic water for such a long time. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT PEOPLE LEAVE NEW ORLEANS! I SAY GET THE NATIONAL GAURD AND VARIOUS OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO DRAG THEM OUT IF THEY HAVE TO. The risk to the public is great, and for those people stupid enough (in my opinion) to want to turn away rescuers comming to help them, I SAY DRAG THEM OUT! IT IS IMPARITIVE THAT THEY LEAVE ASAP! NOT ONLY ARE THEY PUTING THEMSELVES IN DANGER... BUT THEY ARE ALSO PUTTING THE LIVES OF THE RESCUERS IN DANGER AS WELL... HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE TOXIC WATER ONLY TO BE TURNED AWAY WHEN THEY TRY TO HELP! The public health threat has reached a level of imeadiate consern!

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Now President Bush is going to lead an inquiry into the failures of the political component .... wow ..... THAT's going to be fair and balanced like a FoxNews special  

lol, yea

The terrible thing is, that the bush administration and even the generel american public, is too darn proud and patriotic to accept help from other countries.

Acceptance of own problems and the need for help, is the biggest sign of a powerful country

[walker 0]

Hi all

Interesting article in the washington post about the warnings of the affects of removing coastal wetlands has increased the havoc huricanes cause.

Quote[/b] ]Warnings Ignored

The Lure of Coastal Life Outweighs The Risks

By Michael Powell and Michael Grunwald

Washington Post Staff Writers

Wednesday, September 7, 2005; Page A01

BILOXI, Miss. -- The hurricane that flattened parts of this coastal city and drowned New Orleans, that tossed casino boats into apartment buildings and killed perhaps thousands of Americans, was a disaster long ago foretold.

Scientists and environmentalists have cautioned for years that the nation's coastline is dangerously overbuilt. But with Americans migrating in increasing numbers to coastal counties, construction only accelerated, and local officials increasingly relied on technology and luck to forestall catastrophe. As high-rise condominiums and sprawling beach homes have proliferated, warnings have been consistently ignored.

In Mississippi, 20 glittering casinos sprouted at the water's edge. An Army official tried to impose a moratorium on casino projects along the coast in 1998 but was outmuscled by developers and Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.). All those casinos, which employed 16,000 people, now lie wrecked and broken.

The development pressure comes from one immutable fact: Americans love waterfront property. And the federal government has fueled that love through flood insurance that minimizes its risks and by paying for infrastructure such as bridges and roads that makes it more accessible.

In the process, coastal development often degrades the barrier beaches and coastal wetlands that can serve as natural buffers against hurricanes. "You just cannot justify massive building and rebuilding near the most dangerous property in the United States," said Orrin H. Pilkey Jr., a professor emeritus at Duke University and a specialist in coastal ecosystems. "It's a form of societal madness."...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....22.html

Interestingly Trent Lott who through his own stupidity lost his house was one of those who sabotaged the laws designed to protect people and businesses from the 100s of billions of dollars lost in huricane Katrina.

Quote[/b] ]In 1998, Deputy Assistant Army Secretary Michael L. Davis tried to stop the Army Corps of Engineers from rubber-stamping casino applications without studying the impact dredging would have on marshes that shelter wildlife, purify drinking water and help prevent flooding. This angered Lott, then Senate majority leader, who had recently flown to Las Vegas in a casino executive's jet and had raised $100,000 for Republicans at a casino-industry fundraiser.

Lott got the moratorium lifted, then he got the Army to launch an investigation of Davis. No wrongdoing was found, but Davis was removed from Gulf Coast permitting issues.

Ibid

As Ye Sow So shall Ye Reap

Guess GOD musta Bitch slapped Trent Lott and his TBA buddies.

Kind Regards Walker