Hurricane Katrina!

[EiZei 0]

1.38 EUR/litre = 1.72 $US/litre = 6.51 $US/usgal!

What's the average price in the US?

Around 2.5USD to 3USD per gallon if I recall right.

1.38e/litre would now be somewhat cheap here. In the aftermath of Katrina some stations are charging as much as over 1.5e/litre (7.10 USD/gallon), I shit you not.

[Bernadotte 0]

1.38 EUR/litre = 1.72 $US/litre = 6.51 $US/usgal!

What's the average price in the US?

Around 2.5USD to 3USD per gallon if I recall right.

1.38e/litre would now be somewhat cheap here. In the aftermath of Katrina some stations are charging as much as over 1.5e/litre (7.10 USD/gallon), I shit you not.

But you can sleep well knowing that Europe's gasoline is going to a good cause.  

Quote[/b] ]Europe has booked up to 30 cargoes of petrol to move to the United States, prompting brokers to warn of an impending shortage.

What I don't understand is how sending the US our European gasoline worth $6/gallon is going to help keep American prices below $3/gallon.

[EiZei 0]

Maybe EU can arrange some kind of emergency discount for turbodiesel volkswagens?

[Apollo 0]

Well ,i guess the USA should really ask the help of the Netherlands to make new Orleans livable again and prepared for when another such one occurs ,i wager that after having worked almost half a century on their massive delta project's to keep Holand uber safe from such thing's that they have quite the expertise and equpment to handle such thing's effeciantly ,now New Orleans is basicly a new part of the Mexican gulf...

[mattxr 9]

i wouldnt send them gas makes our prices go up becuase theres then less here..

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well, for you Bush-lover - his administration cut the budget for the construction of the levies - something that would have probably prevented the flooding altogether.

Nope, the funding would not helped in stopping the flooding becuase the levees that failed were completed. They were not designed to hold-up against a Cat. 4 hurricane. Bush is not to blame for a decision that happened decades ago in the design process. TBA did cut funding but it still would not prevent the flooding. However, it would had sped up the process of draining NO. I posted a article about this a few pages back.

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, like Fox News, known for their hatred of Bush.

Fox News has been screaming just like the other stations about the rescue effort being horrible in NO.

Quote[/b] ]What I don't understand is how sending the US our European gasoline worth $6/gallon is going to help keep American prices below $3/gallon.

Gas prices have been going up almost everytime new gas reaches the gas stations. For example, one gas station in Maryland a few days ago was in the high $2.00 range in the morning and it jumped to the mid $3.00 range in the evening. Now, it's almost "stable" in the mid $3 range around here. Also, some gas stations are even starting to ration gas (i.e. only two gallons per car). People are rushing to the gas stations and the demand is starting to outweight the supply in some areas. One gas station on the local news had $5.99 for supreme...

[Bernadotte 0]

Just in case there's trouble opening the PDF article, New Orleans, Hurricanes and Climate Change: A Question of Resiliency, I linked on the previous page, here's one of the most interesting sections.  Note that all this was published 2 months before Katrina struck.

Quote[/b] ]Beyond the impact that is visible and imaginable along the rural areas of the coast lies the city of New Orleans.  While the residents cannot enjoy water views from inside the below-sea-level “bowl†of the city because of the height of the levees, open water is moving increasingly close to the levees and to the limited number of highways, also subsiding, all of which are needed to evacuate the population of the entire region in times of hurricane threat.  Due to these limitations to evacuation despite the increasing need to do so, any improvements in hurricane prediction both for direction and intensity will benefit this sole way to protect the population (no sheltering below I-12/I-10 is approved for a category 3 or stronger storm).

Efforts to protect the population through refined evacuation plans and through continued funding of enhanced hurricane protection infrastructure consume the region as each hurricane season approaches.  The area contains 1.6 million people below Lake Pontchartrain and I-10 to the west. Some 700,000 people evacuated in Ivan with normal times to destination not uncommonly 12 hours.  Contra-flow (all lanes out) modifications now permit eight out-bound lanes. However, with no glitches, this number of lanes will be inadequate unless a large part of the population evacuates before the contra-flow is ordered (when the hurricane could be as far away as the Florida Keys). The roads simply cannot handle the traffic otherwise.

In addition, poverty-induced households without cars (estimated at 57,000 households) are anticipated to bear the brunt of the casualties, with statistics of a possible 60,000+ dead in a category 4 or 5 storm. Use of public and private mass transport means buses, Amtrak, cruise ships, river boats (the latter two both going up river) is being considered and negotiated with each entity. Inland shelters to house such an exodus and the required early departure that would be necessary to reduce the risk of the vehicles/vessels being trapped in the storm put incredible constraints on mass transit options.

The possibility of infrastructure improvements to facilitate evacuation is not promising. Projections of over a decade before major improvements to the levee system and to Lake Pontchartrain portend many hurricane seasons of continued significant risk. Hurricanes that present themselves as “bigâ€, such as did Ivan in the fall of 2004, motivate more action reinforced by the increasing recognition within New Orleans that coastal loss is indeed occurring. However, costs to address coastal restoration (estimated at $14 billion) and hurricane protection compete with other major federal needs for funding. The projected timing of the acute phase of the erosion of the Mississippi delta is not good either.

It just may be that New Orleans is already at or near the margins of its resiliency in the context of this discussion. Stretching that resiliency to accommodate a changing climate will be a formidable but seemingly unavoidable challenge.

In other words, they predicted everything that would happen.  They even presented it directly to Louisianna Senator Mary Landrieu.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]with statistics of a possible 60,000+ dead in a category 4 or 5 storm.

And then TBA goes investing whole percentage's of the BNP in Iraq because of 3000 dead in New York ,talk about priority's.

[Baz 0]

In other words, they predicted everything that would happen. They even presented it directly to Louisianna Senator Mary Landrieu.

That was that stupid senator who was "patting the backs of other political leaders" ie: giving a shout-out to her homies... God that pissed me off, if I was there I would have punched her in the face with that microphone she was holding. What a heartless B**** I hope somebody holds her accountable for that. That, my friends is called "the wrong place at the wrong time" she should save her shout-out for when she goes back to DC... What an egotist. I hope others feel the same way... I'd like to know how you would feel if your house cought fire and in front of you, the firechief is giving a shoutout to the mayor and the police chief, just to put things in perspective. Boils my blood.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

DAMN! I've been gone for a week and wasn't able to follow the news. When I left the world was normal and when I got back the crazy-factor was of the scale.

I left when the hurricane was about the hit NO. I come back and I read the news that National Guard is shooting people in NO and that the city if flooded.

This is NUTS

[Bernadotte 0]

In other words, they predicted everything that would happen.  They even presented it directly to Louisianna Senator Mary Landrieu.

That was that stupid senator who was "patting the backs of other political leaders" ie: giving a shout-out to her homies...

Really?  Got a link for that?

According to Walker it was Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, not Senator Mary Landrieu.

I just saw this rather sickening sight of Governor Blanco going round yesterday slapping the backs of fellow federal and state politicians for a job well done.

[Baz 0]

All of them are probrably doing it... But the LA senator really sickened me

[denoir 0]

According to Walker it was Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, not Senator Mary Landrieu.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2125581

She's not the only one...

Edit: Look at the video in the link above. What a bitch!

[CJE 0]

"I have the anger inside of me" ? i mean.

Damn, anderson looks like he gonna cry when he talks bout the dead body with the rats. His voice gets real shaky. I feel sorry for that guy. That b*tch deserved what she got.

[Acecombat 0]

This was posted over @ opflash.org by puremassacre.

Its a nice little live webcam link to neworleans nothing showing the floods ofcourse but maybe if your lucky you might see a NG convoy or something

Live cam feed

P.S: Hope this wasnt already posted here before.

[Bernadotte 0]

According to Walker it was Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, not Senator Mary Landrieu.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2125581

She's not the only one...

Edit: Look at the video in the link above. What a bitch!  

She's a politician.  She's a deal maker.  Her effectiveness is measured by how much she can get for her state in Washington DC.

Take for example that, in July, she scored a billion dollar deal from the federal government that will direct petro-revenue towards restoration of Louisiana's damaged coastline and natural hurricane protection.  (Too bad the money isn't scheduled to arrive until 2007.)  Did she argue that global warming was part of the threat?  Did she argue that they need to save endangered species?  Did she even argue that a Cat 4+ hurricane could strike at any time.

No.  She argued that Louisiana is the number 1 oil producing state and that the federal government owes them and 5 other states financial support to deal with the coastal damage that has resulted from energy industry activity.  She may have had all the other reasons in her mind, but she used the argument that would work and she also made sure 5 other important states with coastal energy reserves would side with her.  And that's what makes her a good politician.

We would all like to hear her tell the Whitehouse and her Capitol Hill colleagues what she really thinks of them on live TV, but that's not going to get her state any billion dollar deals.  Instead, she thanked them with all the same level of sincerety (zero) that she used to thank Anderson Cooper for being an asshole demogogue.

It took me 5 minutes to located the presentation that the senator hosted in June about hurricanes potentially devastating NO.  Why didn't Anderson do the same?  Why didn't he ask her what became of that?  Instead, he asked her about the unattended corpse of a dead Mississippi woman being eaten by rats. WTF? She doesn't even represent Mississippi.  And after that farce of an interview, she's the one you angrily call a bitch?

As for the mayor, he lives in a different world.  He doesn't spend his life struggling to cut deals for his people in DC.  He can afford to speak his mind.  He won't be risking any billion dollar deals because he will never be in a position to make them, either.

At least neither the mayor or senator thought it might be useful to hold a 1 hour prayer while alligators from Lake Pontchartrain moved into the suburbs.

[denoir 0]

She's a politician.  She's a deal maker.  Her effectiveness is measured by how much she can get for her state in Washington DC.

Her effectiveness is measured by her chance of getting reelected, which are basically zero by now. Kissing asses may be effective, but you don't do it on national TV while people are dying. Tactful communication is part of the job.

I'm sure you've seen the number of hateful reports directed against her insensitivity. The blame assignment is already fully under way. How may politicians do you think will want be associated with her? Do you think that senator xxx and senator yyy will be happy that she mentioned them by name and claimed that they've contributed a lot when it's quite apparent that nothing had been done?

Quote[/b] ]At least neither the mayor or senator thought it might be useful to hold a 1 hour prayer while alligators from Lake Pontchartrain moved into the suburbs.

With hindsight, I'd say that the governor did a good thing with the call for prayer. She obviously knew that no help was going to get there anyway and that it would take significantly more time to actually get something done. So she gave people (even if gravely misguided) some hope. If she couldn't offer actual help, a virtual token of help is still better than nothing.

As for the reporter, the questions about what was being done were already covered a million times. To ask how this could have gone so wrong and who's to blame was quite a natural quesiton to ask.

[Baz 0]

for once I agree with Denoir... Despite being baned by him a while ago

[Bernadotte 0]

She's a politician.  She's a deal maker.  Her effectiveness is measured by how much she can get for her state in Washington DC.

Her effectiveness is measured by her chance of getting reelected, which are basically zero by now.  Kissing asses may be effective, but you don't do it on national TV while people are dying. Tactful communication is part of the job.

So in your world scoring $540 million in coastal restoration aid shouldn't mean as much to the electorate as communicating tactfully.  I would fear such a world.

I'm sure you've seen the number of hateful reports directed against her insensitivity.

No.  Got links?  Every politician I've seen interviewed in the past 24 hrs (including the Mayor) have expressed gratitude for the federal government's assistance.  Why is it ok to say thanks for relief that arrives late, but soooooooo insensitive to say thanks for late relief that is on the way?

The blame assignment is already fully under way. How may politicians do you think will want be associated with her? Do you think that senator xxx and senator yyy will be happy that she mentioned them by name and claimed that they've contributed a lot when it's quite apparent that nothing had been done?

Nothing?  Marine reservists were securing the city and Convention Center while she was speaking.  Aid convoys rolled in 12 hrs later.  We all know it arrived late, but being one of the first of many politicians to say thanks when it did get rolling shouldn't make her a bitch.

Quote[/b] ]At least neither the mayor or senator thought it might be useful to hold a 1 hour prayer while alligators from Lake Pontchartrain moved into the suburbs.

With hindsight, I'd say that the governor did a good thing with the call for prayer. She obviously knew that no help was going to get there anyway and that it would take significantly more time to actually get something done. So she gave people (even if gravely misguided) some hope. If she couldn't offer actual help, a virtual token of help is still better than nothing.

Better than nothing?  Actually, there are many many things a governor can ask an entire state to spend an hour doing besides praying that qualify as "better than nothing."  And who the hell was she giving hope to?  The people trapped in their attics watching her on battery operated waterproof TV sets while the water rose around their ears?  I really couldn't have said it better than you did a few days ago:

It's even worse when the Louisiana governor announces an all-state hour of prayer (like she did yesterday). Time is running out for the people trapped in NOLA and she wants to waste valuable time on that kind of bullshit. I wonder how many poor bastards will die during that hour. Prayer indeed.

As for the reporter, the questions about what was being done were already covered a million times. To ask how this could have gone so wrong and who's to blame was quite a natural quesiton to ask.

How was she to know the answer to this natural question as early as Thursday night?  Naturally, all she could promise was that they would get to the bottom of it.

[denoir 0]

Bernadotte, if you cannot see how her comments were inappropriate at best, I'm sorry I cannot help you there.

As for the "hour of prayer", which had no noticeable effect - at the time it was indeed a very questionable thing to do. In retrospect however help only started to arrive two days later, so it had no practical consequences. And perhaps it gave some people comfort through moral support.

Now I'm not normally a supporter of collective delusion, but when somebody has been hit with a ton of bricks you can be a bit more tolerant and practical about it. In normal situations, I would not condone it and I would say that facing reality would have been a far better choice. But if she can't do anything about the real situation, she might as well give people some hope.

Of course, if you can do something real, such as sending the money to the red cross, it sure beats appealing to the sky..

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]She's a politician. She's a deal maker. Her effectiveness is measured by how much she can get for her state in Washington DC.

NO!

You can't look at it like that ,politicians that do not take priority on maintaining life and security for it's citizins in favour of economical factor's are not worth to be politicians IMO ,money is not the essence of a country ,the people are ,and their benifit is priority.

Take it as you wish ,but i expect of a goverment to provide me security ,and orderly enviroment with laws in place ,availabilety of life sustainable goods ,etc. ,if my goverment can't provide that then why am i paying taxes?Politicians are not primarily responsible for the economical health of a region ,the economical part is there only to provide a better life inviroment for it's citizin ,a goverment that cannot provide it's citizin when in dire need and potential a plenty is a goverment that severely failed.And this is very important ,by defacto IMO a goverment that cannot maintain order ,law and stabilety is not worth existing.

A good politician looks out for the economical aspects of it's people in stable times ,yes thats logical ,but when times are dire the time for sweettalk has ended and action is needed ,and there failure has been massive.True she's probably not responsible ,but even if politicians cannot help in a practical matter they are atleast expected to show sincere symphaty for the suffering of THEIR people and not go all negationistic and actually congratulate their leaders for a realy messed up job.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]She's a politician.  She's a deal maker.  Her effectiveness is measured by how much she can get for her state in Washington DC.

NO!

You can't look at it like that ,politicians that do not take priority on maintaining life and security for it's citizins in favour of economical factor's are not worth to be politicians IMO ,money is not the essence of a country ,the people are ,and their benifit is priority.

You seem confused.  Did you read about the coastal restoration aid program that she'd been working for 8 years to get sponsored?

Louisiana's levee system has controlled seasonal flooding in the Mississippi river delta for centuries causing all that floodwater sediment that used to pile up on the coastal flood plain to get washed out to sea.  Meanwhile, storms and currents have continued to erode the coastline without any floodwater sediment to offset the loss.  This has caused a dangerous deterioration of the region's first line of defence against hurricances and storm surges.

The senator successfully argued that the federal government has reaped great benefits from the region's petroleum industry, which has itself benefited from the levee system, which has ultimately damaged the coastline.  Therefore, the feds should pay to support its restoration.  And she's correct, given that the feds make $23 billion per year from the region's oil industry.

I hope that makes more sense.    

Bernadotte, if you cannot see how her comments were inappropriate at best, I'm sorry I cannot help you there.

But, I've been trying to help you to help me.  

Here's my question to you once again:

"Why is it ok to say thanks for relief that arrives late, but soooooooo insensitive to say thanks for late relief that is on the way?"

Why did you consider it "inappropriate at best" for her to be one of the first of many politicians to say thanks when the aid did get rolling?

If you really don't know why this timing issue made you call her a bitch than just say so and we can move on.

[Bernadotte 0]

(Damn, no delete function!! Placebo's gonna kill me.)

[Baz 0]

She wasn't saying thanks for relief she was saying thx to polliticians for "being there" shes thanking congress for passing 10 billion dollars in aid.. And certain polliticians were mentioned where were instumental to that. Now going on CNN and saying thx while people are dying and are in such a horrible situation is what most people are angry about. If she wanted to thank them so much, the b**** could have sent them letters or phone calls.... Hell when she goes to DC she could be up in the front with a microphone and thank all of congress. People who are not only in such a sitiation... But are also people that are watching at home accross the USA and I know they were disgusted by it. I share Anderson Cooper's disgust with the senator... It was the wrong place at the wrong time and the wrong means... Simple as that. If you fail to see that then maybe you should think more clearly about the situation and how giving comrades a thumbs up for doing jack all really was innappropriate at the time. If you still don't see it then you need to pretend you're a wet hungry tired smelly NO citizen who wants answers and wants to get the F outta this rotting city. I'll leave it at that.

[Bernadotte 0]

She wasn't saying thanks for relief she was saying thx to polliticians for "being there" shes thanking congress for passing 10 billion dollars in aid.. And certain polliticians were mentioned where were instumental to that. Now going on CNN and saying thx while people are dying and are in such a horrible situation is what most people are angry about. If she wanted to thank them so much, the b**** could have sent them letters or phone calls....

But people were still dying later that night and the next day while all the other politicians, including the mayor, were thanking the same people in exactly the same way.

For the record, all she said was this:

Quote[/b] ]Thank President Clinton and former President Bush for their strong statements of support and comfort today.  I thank all the leaders that are coming to Louisiana, and Mississippi, and Alabama to our help and rescue.

We are grateful for the military assets that are being brought to bear.  I want to thank Senator Frist and Senator Reid for their extraordinary efforts.

Anderson, tonight, I don't know if you've heard -- maybe you all have announced it -- but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross up and operating.

That's all she said.  And for saying it a few hours before everyone else said it you and Denoir call her a bitch?  

Hearing someone announce $10 billion in emergency aid would certainly have given me a lot more hope than any statewide 1-hour prayer session.