realism

[funnyguy1 0]

There were many suggestions concerning the realism.

Some of them in threads about physics (bullet penetration, ballistics and so on), graphics (realistic environment), about AI and it`s more human-like reactions.

In many threads there were suggestions about soldiers duty (ordinary private or spec op, whatever) and about the behaviour of the vehicles that will be used in game.

What I want Is to examine those two different matters.

We all know, that realism `on foot` is a must, because most of the time in ofp we were given the old good m16, and we had to manage with this. This is imo the part which MUST be as realistic as it can be (ofcourse with ability to customize it), but on the other hand there were those vehicles.

There was already many posts about vehicles handling and it`s behaviour in the firefight, different topics about helos, tanks (and so on) realism.

Some of us wanted to create the ultimate war sim (flight sim + tank sim + soldier sim ), the others complained that it wouldn`t be playable if the helo you had jumped in, crashed after the 3sec of flight.

I want to help BIS with finding the line between gameplay and realism. And the `on foot` vs. `in vehicle` case.

Personally, I would be happy if they manage to do something like above mentioned ultimate sim. It wouldn`t be micro$oft`s flight sim, but at least something a*s kicking real. The ability to customize the realism level also sounds great (especially for those who don`t have so sophisticated requests  )

Fell free to add your comments, advantages and disadvantages of realism an gameplay.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Sounds great, realism all the way! And the "3 sec of flight" thing... would that be refering to the Blackhawk and it's tendendcy to have engine failures? haha!

Anyhow, I think the current flight system is more realistic than M$ Flight Sim... in that you can do barrel rolls and loop the loops with 747's and crap. Wow very realistic. That'd make the wings tear off in real life. Actually, that'd be AWESOME! Simulate "G-Force" so if you go too fast you pass out and so on, and wings and whatever break off if you exceed the aircrafts limits! (all selectable in the difficulty menu obviously. Have recruit, veterain, and simulation or something, the latter having everything as realistic as possible!)

[Antichrist 0]

That's what I would also like to see. Simulation and arcade mode when controlling the vehicles. Arcade will be old OFP style and simulation can be couple of notches above that. We obviously cannot expect level of Lock-On or Enemy Engaged, but something of a Comanche level.

[Dallas 9]

I'd like flying to be easy to use, hard to master.

[Heatseeker 0]

More realism/acuracy, so you dont take out a helicopter with a couple mg bursts, or snipe infantry with your MBT's MG or blow up a MBT with reloadable laws .

I think investing more on realism should be BIS best aproach, so that it remains the nÅŸ1 combat sim on the market and not a BF2 competitor , make it a unique, original game with a experience no other can deliver, challenge us more i say and make it a game people will be proud to be good at .

[4 IN 1 0]

i acturaly cant "fly" a "chopper" in BF engine based game more then 3 sec, so..............does that count?

[DKM Jaguar 0]

To be honest the only thing I care about in OFP is vehicular combat. I would like to see an attempt made at simulating accurate tank warfare, becuase there is no modern sim that deals with it in a way which looks real and plays realisticly.

Of course, I suspect the amount of time needed to do this will be insane, and a compromise such as that in OFP already will be made, where the vehicles are basically the same in their functions, the only real difference is weapons (to a degree) and models/textures.

Vehicles are what attracted me to OFP in the first place, seeing you could drive the 5T truck, and any other vehicle. I guess as long as that is still true for OFP2 (and that's what I will be calling it, as it is the only sequel to OFP I will achknowledge) then it's good enough.

If BIS design the engine well enough I suppose a lot of these extra sims could be addons in their own right, much like resistance, which would mean no impact to the development time of the basic game, and still the possibility of bringing in updates after launch. I don't know how much of that is possible though.

[Victor_S. 0]

Personally I really like the current flight system for choppers. The fixed wing aircraft need a little work. I am totally against making the vehicle controls arcade like. One thing I would like to see is wind effects. Its a little thing but would add a lot i think.

[RUKH 0]

I think that the FM in OPF is a long way from good, it is VERY constricted in movement and really hard to et a natural feeling for.

The system shouldnt be like in FS2004, but much closer to that instead of current FM.

Tipping your nose should get you close to the ground fast unless you throttle up, thus being able to balance speed vs drop ratio when trying to manouver out of harms way...this is not possible in the game right now beacause of the lack of physics. ( i belive)

This game would be complete with more realistic vehicles.

[baff 0]

simulation all the way.

none of that gameplay nonsense.

[funnyguy1 0]

I think It would cause some kind of classification for players.

The only one, best and objective way for the shakeout:

those who walk, those who fly and those who drive (tank for ex.)

In mp? priceless.

[xnodunitx 0]

Would be interesting if certain "realism packs" could be released as upgrades,for instance for extra helicopter realism ya got the torque,rpm's,systems n so on,then on another you get thing like temperature,advanced weather and so on,this would also help with things such as FLIR,as cold would be black or dark gray and hot would be light gray or white,depending on the temperature of course.

however this does not need to be like damn VBS1 and all "upgrades" cost $50,no hell with that I say,if it doesnt include the actual game then at most it should be $25 or $15,$50 to $100 is just waaaay too much for upgrades.

[Dubble0zero 0]

I am for full realism, but we must remember that it's not only flight models that needs to improve, it would make the game so much better if it could simulate the systems in the aircrafts (computors, radar, weapons and such)...

It would be a bit much to ask for OFP with F4, stealbeasts "included", but it would be good if there were a bit more system simulation than what we have now, and if we only get the possibilities the comunity will probibly make mods that can compete with previously named games...

And ofcourse it should be an option to use it...

[sidhellfire 0]

Leave arcade for console kids :P

As for now changing plane behaviour is must. Helicopter controls aren't awesome and i know the won't be ever, but slight enchancements will do the thing.

As a old player i say - underestimating extreeme situations is an extreame big mistake

Make sure that nothing will start to slope if the terrain looks stable. Put everything to make vechicles to do not bounce nor to fly in result of big explosion. Everyone know how collisions should look like.

I believe that the balance of the gameplay = simulation may be easly kept by serwer switched variables. Most of players which prefer to shoot instead of think (kesselbitches ;)), would easly start their fun on some servers, and thoose who want to play good coop, or awesome battle will find something for them on some different servers.

[xnodunitx 0]

I guess the best way out is how hard ya make the simulation option,personally to fly a helicopter I'd rather have to push numerous buttons on the keyboard to use all systems,not just Q and its flying.

But yeah,can't leave out the tanks and infantry,but we don't want to make it so real that when a soldier is hit that they literally explode,the Y2K3 and FFUR exploding bodies is enough,we don't need anymore graphic than that otherwise the game might become questoinable to some parents,then when their kid plays a M game they want to sue the company.

I think the best choice would be to have options between simulation and arcade,and of course different levels of realism for each.

[stevevcb 3]

The most fun I've ever had in OFP MP is when it's played realistically. Unfortunately, you reach a point where you can't refine your tactics and drills any further because the engine's too clumsy. Same for aircraft, once you get to grips with helicopters or planes, you get a little better but you're never going to be an ace. Armoured vehicles are worse, they're so arcadey in OFP that even I, the tankophile, can't bear to use them sometimes.

Personally, I'd rather that everything was as sim-like as possible. I'd rather have a steep learning curve and near-limitless opportunities for improving your skills than a shallow learning curve but only a limited number of things you can pull off.

First game I ever bought for the PC was F22 Air Dominance Fighter. For months, all I did was cream into the ground, buildings, ships, the sea; you name it, I nose-dived into it a bazillion times. I didn't understand what the HUD meant. I didn't know the difference between AIM-9 and AIM-120 missiles. I didn't know what CCIP was or what FLIR did. Then I bit the bullet and spent a day with the manual, running through the tutorials and actually learning how to work everything. Once I got the hang of the basics, I could then learn from experience. Why was my fuel running out half-way through a flight? Because by putting the throttle back as far as possible, I'd set the engines to afterburner. Why couldn't I launch a radar-guided missile? Because I'd not armed the weapons system.

I still play F22 because I'm still not very good at it and I'm determined to get to grips with the bloody thing. OFP2 (the true OFP2, not the imitation Codemasters one) needs depth like this. It needs to encourage people to learn and specialise. In my squad, when we get new recruits, they say "oh, I'm a good sniper, I'm a pretty good pilot and I'm alright in a tank," but when you get them out in the field they're an average shot and a danger to themselves in anything with an engine. If OFP2's level of difficulty is high without being prohibitive and the learning curve steep without putting you off. It needs to make you want to learn.

Did that make any sense? Didn't think so

[Baphomet 0]

I still think the choppers should be able to maneuver the way a real chopper can. In OFP the ability to fly sideways was grossly lacking. It was like a slow pathetic crawl.

Certain choppers should be able to perform the same aerobatic maneuvers that their real life counterparts can, instead of driving more like hover cars.

I don't condone the idea of having them fly like they do in that BF mod, or in Soldner where it's easy to crash them.

However in OFP it was far too easy to aim indirect fire, fixed weapons like rockets with pinpoint accuracy. For the most part, the helo shouldn't be capable of sniping with ffars since they're so ridiculously stable and precise with small movements.

[xnodunitx 0]

If they were to put all this in then the game might not be released till 2007 or 2008.

[Daniel 0]

Concerning Aircraft, I'm fine with all the flight models, especially with a joystick. What I want is a level of "crashability" that you get from Sturmovik, so you can scrape an aircraft along the ground without it stopping and blowing up . If Sturmovik can do it BIS can, and it would take ariel combat to another level!

Sure, in Sturmovik can safely crash an aircraft, but can you get out and shoot the guy that shot you down, then steal his ride back to base, only to grab another plane? I think not

[4 IN 1 0]

Daniel @ May 29 2005,19:15)]Concerning Aircraft, I'm fine with all the flight models, especially with a joystick. What I want is a level of "crashability" that you get from Sturmovik, so you can scrape an aircraft along the ground without it stopping and blowing up . If Sturmovik can do it BIS can, and it would take ariel combat to another level!

Sure, in Sturmovik can safely crash an aircraft, but can you get out and shoot the guy that shot you down, then steal his ride back to base, only to grab another plane? I think not  

most likely we will just went E&E inorder to get our ass safe back to base :DDD

[FragMASTER 0]

I used to fly choppers in ofp a long time ago, and I was very good at it too. Then I picked up a copy of battlefield vietnam. I flew choppers in that game and became a very good pilot, often receiving many comments on my abilities. Now I view ofp's chopper controls as being very arcadey, I no longer bother with flying choppers in this game anymore.

I highly hope for much better controlability for the choppers in this game. Wouldn't want this game to take a backward step and end up like Soldner or Joint Operations.

[4 IN 1 0]

I used to fly choppers in ofp a long time ago, and I was very good at it too. Then I picked up a copy of battlefield vietnam. I flew choppers in that game and became a very good pilot, often receiving many comments on my abilities. Now I view ofp's chopper controls as being very arcadey, I no longer bother with flying choppers in this game anymore.

I highly hope for much better controlability for the choppers in this game. Wouldn't want this game to take a backward step and end up like Soldner or Joint Operations.

when i see the flight control in BF:V i always say that it is as arcadey as the OFP did, but the worst thing is that in BF engine based choppers/ plane always "fly" likes that they have no weight at all, you are flooting in the air, not something that have a 1300+ BHP to pull you up and push you forward, yes sure that it have all the movement that a chopper could have, but the control is just way too nonsence for someone who know how a chopper work, while on the other hand in OFP you could still have a little more senceable control, with a little help with a joystick

p.s. i have spend a shit loads of time trying to tweak the  flight control of BF:V to make it senceable so dont B/S me that i know notthing

edit: not mean to flame anyone, but if you ask me what its like to fly chopper in both game, i would like you to see one of the Top Gear show, no i wouldnt say that OFP is like an AM DB9 nor a VW Gulf GTi as its just far from that(hopefully it would in game2), but i would say that atless it would close be a washing machine

[FragMASTER 0]

I only meant to refer to ofp's constrictability of the controls (the limit on how far you can pitch and roll). I liked bfv for being able to invert the chopper when I wanted to, and also having to counter my control inputs to cancel them out.

[4 IN 1 0]

I only meant to refer to ofp's constrictability of the controls (the limit on how far you can pitch and roll). I liked bfv for being able to invert the chopper when I wanted to, and also having to counter my control inputs to cancel them out.

thats is way far from realistic too you know

[baff 0]

on the helicopter model, can the pilot please have control of the dumbfires.

i don't know if thats how they do it in a real cobra, but tryting to co-ordinate with your gunner when to launch them is silly.