Black Hawk Down Studios

[Nemesis6 0]

Not all soldiers are, well, "decent". Check out this largely ignored example from Kosovo:

Quote[/b] ] As investigators tried to pin down Sgt. Maj. Ahmed Mustafa Ibrahim Ali’s motive, a clearer picture of the April 17 attack emerged this week. Witnesses, U.N. officials, medical personnel and NATO officers, in interviews with The Associated Press, described a scene in which the officers were trapped between a locked gate and Ali’s assault rifle.

Eleven officers were wounded before the officers shot and killed Ali, a Palestinian from Jordan. No one is certain what prompted him to open fire, but a survivor said Ali was smiling during his shooting spree, a U.N. source familiar with the investigation said.

The attack came three days after U.S. President Bush endorsed a plan by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to withdraw from the Gaza Strip and back the permanence of some Jewish settlements in the West Bank. The plan rules out resettling Palestinian refugees in Israel.

A senior NATO official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that besides the investigation into any links with Hamas, authorities were examining a trip Ali took to Saudi Arabia only a month before he joined the mission in March to see if it might be connected to the attack.

On-topic

Not all soldiers are good soldiers. In fact, not all soldiers are soldiers.

Well, anyway... I've got a little idea: There should be some mod "unions". Like the one of those 3 WW2 mods some time back. Now imagine if we could unite all the mods with the Somalia, or generally just African theme, and make them maybe share their work, help each other out, that would, in my opinion, be a very effective way to get some new mods out. It might not be very independant, but the point is to make a mod, right? And chances are 95 % that you, as a new mod, will ever really contribute anything of major value to the community.

[FireflyPL 0]

The difference between a movie and a game is very big.

Would you like to play a game of the JFK, Gandhi or Martin Luther King assasination? I hope the answer is no.

Would you like to see a movie about those assasinations?

Well the answer is yes.

There is a game about JFK assasination

http://www.jfkreloaded.com/

also there allready is a game about BHD - Delta Force BHD where you play in mission Irene.

There are many movies about JFK, ML Kings and Ghandi assasinations.

So whats the big deal if nobody cares about it except you?

[Heatseeker 0]

I dont think the event is worth a game, mostly because it was small scale and we already know it turned out bad.

Its not much gaming fun nor interesting when we know what will happen and that x people will die.

This from my perspective, if you think you can make something cool with it go right ahead.

OPF is a game, it doesnt present real life like a movie does and this shouldnt be has violent or shocking has the BHD movie was, so in a way it shows that this event wasnt forgoten and that the people who lost their lives there 12 years ago are still remembered today, nothing wrong with that i think .

[Silent Pro 0]

This is my take on BHD and other similar scenarios. As long as you re-create the events in a meaningful way as in it provides some kind of historical insight, tactical or strategic value in terms of knowledge(which is out dated and useless against our forces currently) and you do not specifically use the names/images of the operatives and participants involved then, it should be permissible.

A mod like this should not give the wannabe's with user names like Sgt. Eversman, Gordy, Hoot, Hathcock, Marcinko more fuel to parade the names around as if they were badges of honor for which they have bestowed upon themselves for cyber-space.

I say if you keep things inline, then all should be well. Novalogic made a joke out of the event already and made money off of it. If you can do it right by the people who were there, then there is nothing anyone can really say against your project.

Just my $.02

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]It was important a movie about october 3rd 1993 was made. Because many people saw it as a shamefull defeat, without knowing what happened. This gives a new insight to the event and gives long-due credit to the people who fought it, by making it as accurate as possible. Since the movie was made, there wasnt a propaganda machine(in your eyes there is a lot of propaganda, maybe cause you're used to every media thing being propaganda, poor SA) backing the movie up or glorifying it. It was hyped by many people in the gaming community because it's the only good movie about modern day combat.

The movies script was cleared by the Pentagon before they even began filming , the studios required lots of help from the army so ofcourse they cleansed the script even if it had a little bit of dirt in it which could have portrayed the americans wrong , i mean FFS there wasnt even one single shot fired by an american which was wrong or landed on a civilian , show me one battle in such claustrohpobic envoirnment where this happens   . It was in a way propaganda at best and didnt portray the true events.

Whats my origin got to do anything with this argument? You going back to your kkk roots again eh Ranger44?  Cant have a simple talk without slandering the other person because he comes from a different place eh?

Quote[/b] ]In our free nations the press is not a propaganda machine for the government, remember that little fact.

Thats a load of BS. Its done everywhere to some extent either greater or less. No country in the world is immune from this. Just watch right wing news bs and who needs govt controlled media then   .

Aye, there is, for example, some film being made in Argentina about how they kicked our arses in the Falklands, every country on earth glorifies its own deeds. Its a kind of human nature for a group (in thie case a country).

Just make what you feel but remember using hollywood films as a source, or any kind of "film based on..." isnt going to be accurate.

[CanadianTerror 0]

Are you saying that the RAMBO movies werent accurate?

[Acecombat 0]

Are you saying that the RAMBO movies werent accurate?

Yeah they had the best looking pu.. err Hind model ever

[Stelios 1]

Quote[/b] ]This is my take on BHD and other similar scenarios. As long as you re-create the events in a meaningful way as in it provides some kind of historical insight, tactical or strategic value in terms of knowledge(which is out dated and useless against our forces currently) and you do not specifically use the names/images of the operatives and participants involved then, it should be permissible.

Those are some good 2 cents.

Going off-topic for one last time, as I think the following argument blows.

Quote[/b] ]

Bosnia

vietnam

irak

chile

bolivia

ecuador

colombia

venezuela

afghanistan

Cambodia

....

thanks to america all these countries are so pretty place to live.

you should'nt talk about what you don't know.

Bosnia is now a pretty safe country, you can even go on holiday to it. Just a lot of NATO forces still around looking for war criminals. Afghanistan is on it's way of becoming a safe, democratic country. You cant judge about Iraq yet, but it's getting somewhere, at least they have freedom now, there is nothing more valuable than that. And the other countries you name, except Vietnam, those were some CIA/KGB playing fields. Something I dont approve but it doesnt really happen anymore now. And if you said that you shouldnt talk about what you dont know, well I return the phrase to you, because you should know that Honduras was actually the 2nd home of 1st SFOD-D(next to beirut). Why didnt you include it? And why not include Europe, 60 years ago US forces liberated us, man did we turn out bad.

And Japan and South-Korea, they turned out to be some real nasty countries too after US forces went there. Did you leave out those examples on purpose, or you just didnt know about them? Dont tell me you think that's too far back, because you did include Vietnam, which under it's 30 years of communism really turned out to be a friendly and prospering country, NOT.

Many people are now saying we should send troops to Sudan because of the genocide, 13 years ago it was the same situation in Somalia, people died every day. Why do many of the people who think we should go to Sudan, say we shouldnt have gone to Somalia.

But enough off-topic, we can always continue on the opflashpoint.org political forum.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

...Bosnia is now a pretty safe country, you can even go on holiday to it. Just a lot of NATO forces still around looking for war criminals. ..

Take it from someone who actually lives there:

Around here (Sarajevo) things are like during Al Capone days in U.S. where alot of gangs are forming and cars are massively stolen, people shooting at each other in trams (one incident so far), at public places (multiple incidents), massive pickpocketing, people will stop you on the street and take your i.e. cellphone during the daylight in the middle of the city. Here everyone is about being tough and have a gun. Also homeless people are not so homeless, some are even rich. Beggars are not beggars but they earn money that way for their bosses who give them a cut of what they earn, and they pray on ignorant tourists to give them ca$h. A lot of gang protection is going on like if a store doesn't pay for portection to some gang they smash the place up and beat the owner, but you get the point (Mafia anyone?).

And what I mean by gang is an individual with an fast car and a gun who has his lets say "followers" witch do much work for them.

But all in all Sarajevo is a good place to visit but not to live, as local papers once written:

Quote[/b] ]Sarajevo je mjesto opasnog življenja. - "Sarajevo is a place of dangerous living."

Sorry for the offtopic.

[@cero 0]

I should remind everybody here going on about BHD in a game, that the game BHD is been on the market for quite some time now. I actually own a copy, and I never heard anybody having a go at Novalogic for it.

BHD campaign? well, I got the game, so I can give you some mission ideas and stuff releated that I can get from the game.

Regards.

@CERO.

[-HUNTER- 1]

Let alone if people are going to be upset about it, the soldiers I mean... How in earth are you guys going to make a nice looking, good working, non lagging, piece of hardcore MOUT in ofp?? Because the things like they show in the movies will be really difficult to reproduce in OFP! I do ALLOT of mout stuff on the unrealesed Najaf map so dont get me wrong I know what im talking about, like ai running allover the place, cars dont follow correctly in convoy, let alone the helos flying like utter shit!

And I do agree on what ranger said that people might be offended and all, but indeed there has been a movie, and a videogame allready. So I would say ofp HAS the possiblilty to show people how difficult such a situation would have been, but then allot of scripting and correcting the missions is needed! Because then I would make it as real as possible! So thats including some 500 skinnies...

[Stelios 1]

There was an outrage among the veterans that the game was made. Even though one of the vets worked with novalogic for it.

And from what I've heard it was just another cash cow for Novalogic, low quality - high price.

You dont honor the dead by recreating their death in a game.

That's how I feel, take it or leave it.

[T-X 0]

Let alone if people are going to be upset about it, the soldiers I mean... How in earth are you guys going to make a nice looking, good working, non lagging, piece of hardcore MOUT in ofp?? Because the things like they show in the movies will be really difficult to reproduce in OFP! I do ALLOT of mout stuff on the unrealesed Najaf map so dont get me wrong I know what im talking about, like ai running allover the place, cars dont follow correctly in convoy, let alone the helos flying like utter shit!

Solving these problems you discribed is really a big challange for every missionmaker.

But when you split the storyline in small pieces, you don't have most of these problems like lag or uncorrect function of the AI.

Our focus is more on tactitcal situations and less on killing 1000 people in one campaign

[marcusjm 0]

But why make a new mod on it? (just curious not a statement)

As far as I know there's already addons for basically anything involved in this scenario. Rangers, Deltas, Blackhawks etc etc. And they all represent some of the best addons made at all for OFP.

Why not just collect all that stuff and make a good mini campaign out of it?

marcus

[Messiah 2]

But why make a new mod on it? (just curious not a statement)

As far as I know there's already addons for basically anything involved in this scenario. Rangers, Deltas, Blackhawks etc etc. And they all represent some of the best addons made at all for OFP.

Why not just collect all that stuff and make a good mini campaign out of it?

marcus

sounds like the best course of action to me...

go through the film, split it into several obvious missions and cutscenes and then just make the required size of city for that part...

for the chalk insertion you'd only need to create a few city blocks and longer streets to shoot down to get the idea of defending the insertion zone....

[Acecombat 0]

And we have all forgotten the most important thing in creating such a scenario in OFP , THE BLOODY LOCATION! .

Where do you in present OFP w/addons create such a scenario , there is hardly any island which has everything a BHD mission requires , tonal you might say , yes but its not perfect its too big and putting a few units on it lags especially in a big claustrophobic city type envoirnment. Apart from that theres Cat shits afghan island and it doesnt suits well mainly because the terrain is too topsy turvy if you even decide to place buildings on it and also its texture isnt matching that of a desert like in Somalia but more like the rugged topography of afghanistan.

What we need is a proper island first with buildings like that shown in the movie (CSLA's lacertas come close to THAT!) then proper surrounding envoirnment like burning tyres/vehicles. Proper alleyways and stuff like that to truly emulate the movie other then that trying out a exact BHD style mission is useless.

[marcusjm 0]

What's wrong with the Tonal island? I have put at least 150 units on it without any heavy lag. Though they werent any fancy units but still.

I think Tonal would be superb for these type of scenarios. Alternativelly one could do mini maps with just sections of the city like suggested above. Whatever lag there is in Tonal would be minimal compared to re-creating Mogadishu .

marcus

[Acecombat 0]

Sorry but the buildings in tonals city (tatu ex.) are just fat boxes sitting there , you can interact with them , no balconys , verandas etc and hardly any with a courtyard or enterable. That just ruins the BHD feel , you feel as if your playing in some 'other' envoirnment rather then from the movie one.

One way to make a genuine look alike place would be to have a simple small island with a brown (desert everonlike texture) and then off you go placing buildings and stuff trying to make the location by yourself. Utilizing various addons.

[T-X 0]

Some guys are working on a new island for the campaign based on SGH Mogadishu.

Screen of the island

Soul Hunter has collected some of the best Addon-Maker, Scripter and Missionmaker of german-speaking community.

[Nemesis6 0]

Afghanistan is on it's way of becoming a safe, democratic country.

They still stone people. I recon the first step would be kicking that nasty little habbit of theirs.

[marcusjm 0]

But still. To make one island for just one scenario seems a bit over the top. Ok what about the smaller Tonali island? (modified)

Personally I hate desert terrain. It's boring to fight in, nothing like real forests and green rolling hills for a good fight.

marcus

[T-X 0]

The small island has too many bugs and a too small town.

There is a modyfied Tonali? That's interesting, because Hawkeye1985 from the BAS-Mission-Studio (www.sfofp.de) didn't became the permission from Nagual to change anything on tonal.

[Jimpy 0]

Just as a matter of interest (and not meant as any sort of

criticism) what do you think you could offer a player using

the OFP engine that you couldn't do just as well (if not better)

using the mission editor from "Delta Force: Black Hawk Down"?

[T-X 0]

Four words:

Tactic-based-Team-action

In OFP, you can arrange things in a more military way like flank enemys.

DFBHD is more an acarde shooter and has only a very small community.

In DFBHD the player can shoot a sniper easyly out of his position while in OFP yo have to use some tricks to survive

[marcusjm 0]

I think a mod for SWAT4 would be cool (BHD that is). It has the best team AI i have seen yet.

I don't know which Unreal engine it uses but the newer ones can handle pretty large areas.

marcus