The Middle East part 2

[theavonlady 2]

Where were you when ?

SNIP SNIP SNIP

As I've already mentioned, I usually do not post every piece of news that comes out when it happens.

And that was my point. That others here always seem to be selective.

So forgive me if I don't bother wasting my time answering your list of events going back over twenty years point by point.

Quote[/b] ]You can hear but you don't listen.

You can't read.

Quote[/b] ]whatever you may write there is no more innocence and good vs bad in your war with palestinians.

Guess what? We disagree!

Quote[/b] ]Why do I write all this as I won't expect peace or better understanding from it ?

Because I am fed up of all the blood spilled, and suffering and death toll and hatred feeding from the latter, in an everlasting vicious circle.

With tremendous thanks to France and the rest of the EU for being such loyal promoters of terrorists for these last 30-40 years.

Your country's hands are dripping in blood.

And you would think that only you are fed up with blood spilt. How pompous and condescending. You don't own a monopoly, mister!

Quote[/b] ]Some would say this is two cents psychology.

Overpriced.

[sanctuary 19]

Quote[/b] ]Why do I write all this as I won't expect peace or better understanding from it ?

Because I am fed up of all the blood spilled, and suffering and death toll and hatred feeding from the latter, in an everlasting vicious circle.

With tremendous thanks to France and the rest of the EU for being such loyal promoters of terrorists for these last 30-40 years.

Your country's hands are dripping in blood.

And you would think that only you are fed up with blood spilt. How pompous and condescending. You don't own a monopoly, mister!

...

i just hope one day you will think about what has occured in Europe, the innocent blood that had been in the hand of terrorists during the last 30/40 years, all the fights that had been made against those animals, the fights that has been made in Europe in front of the media, and the ones behind the scenes , away from the camera before writing such ignorant and stupid statement.

yes , my country and europe in general has made really idiotic decisions sometime, but saying that they are promoting terrorism during the last 30/40 years is one of the summit of the stupidity and ignorance mountain.

[theavonlady 2]

yes , my country and europe in general has made really idiotic decisions sometime, but saying that they are promoting terrorism during the last 30/40 years is one of the summit of the stupidity and ignorance mountain.

Why don't you slip back on your sofa and watch some quality entertainment.

Regards to Jack.

[Bernadotte 0]

I didn't mention a lynching. The subject was the desecration of dead people.

Here, I'll make it easier for you!

But one has to ask where were any of you when Palestinian crowds were <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>lynching</span> Israelis in public in Ramalah...

Keep trying!  

[theavonlady 2]

I didn't mention a lynching. The subject was the desecration of dead people.

Here, I'll make it easier for you!

But one has to ask where were any of you when Palestinian crowds were <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>lynching</span> Israelis in public in Ramalah...

Let me clear that up for you. I meant to say that I did not mention a lynching in the latter case of the IDF soldiers that were killed earlier this year in the Rafach area.

Quote[/b] ]Keep trying!

This was a non-starter.

[sanctuary 19]

yes , my country and europe in general has made really idiotic decisions sometime, but saying that they are promoting terrorism during the last 30/40 years is one of the summit of the stupidity and ignorance mountain.

Why don't you slip back on your sofa and watch some quality entertainment.

Regards to Jack.

In your opinion, why did i mentionned "idiotic decisions" ?

i was exactly refering to this.

But that does not back up you "30/40 years of terrorism promotion by the Europe", while during 30/40 years europe has fought terrorism and paid its tribute in innocent blood trying to get rid of them.

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]Nude Israeli soldiers suspended

Associated Press in Jerusalem

Friday November 26, 2004

The Guardian

Six Israeli naval commandos have been suspended after they posed naked in a picture that was published in a newspaper, the military said yesterday.

The soldiers were on a field trip to Mount Hermon in the Golan Heights when they posed for the photograph, naked in the snow - a unit tradition. They were unaware that their pose was also captured by a photographer from the Yediot Ahronot daily, which published the picture.

The unit commander was reportedly furious when he saw the photo. He summoned the six and informed them that they were "suspended from active duty for a limited time".

All six were veteran soldiers due to be discharged in February. The Israeli media and the soldiers' parents decried the harsh punishment, pointing to the soldiers' long service in an elite unit.

"I am shocked by the lack of proportion," the father of one of the soldiers told Israel Radio. "We are talking about the best of the youth. They did not choose an easy or comfortable service. In the last few years they have buried a number of their friends."

Military officials said the final decision on the soldiers is to be made the head of the navy, together with the chief of staff.

Seems a tad extreme in my view, the article dosent give the impression there was anything violent or humilating about it.

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]Israel shocked by image of soldiers forcing violinist to play at roadblock

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem

Monday November 29, 2004

The Guardian

Of all the revelations that have rocked the Israeli army over the past week, perhaps none disturbed the public so much as the video footage of soldiers forcing a Palestinian man to play his violin.

The incident was not as shocking as the recording of an Israeli officer pumping the body of a 13-year-old girl full of bullets and then saying he would have shot her even if she had been three years old.

Nor was it as nauseating as the pictures in an Israeli newspaper of ultra-orthodox soldiers mocking Palestinian corpses by impaling a man's head on a pole and sticking a cigarette in his mouth.

But the matter of the violin touched on something deeper about the way Israelis see themselves, and their conflict with the Palestinians.

The violinist, Wissam Tayem, was on his way to a music lesson near Nablus when he said an Israeli officer ordered him to "play something sad" while soldiers made fun of him. After several minutes, he was told he could pass.

It may be that the soldiers wanted Mr Tayem to prove he was indeed a musician walking to a lesson because, as a man under 30, he would not normally have been permitted through the checkpoint.

But after the incident was videotaped by Jewish women peace activists, it prompted revulsion among Israelis not normally perturbed about the treatment of Arabs.

The rightwing Army Radio commentator Uri Orbach found the incident disturbingly reminiscent of Jewish musicians forced to provide background music to mass murder. "What about Majdanek?" he asked, referring to the Nazi extermination camp.

The critics were not drawing a parallel between an Israeli roadblock and a Nazi camp. Their concern was that Jewish suffering had been diminished by the humiliation of Mr Tayem.

Yoram Kaniuk, author of a book about a Jewish violinist forced to play for a concentration camp commander, wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that the soldiers responsible should be put on trial "not for abusing Arabs but for disgracing the Holocaust".

"Of all the terrible things done at the roadblocks, this story is one which negates the very possibility of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. If [the military] does not put these soldiers on trial we will have no moral right to speak of ourselves as a state that rose from the Holocaust," he wrote.

"If we allow Jewish soldiers to put an Arab violinist at a roadblock and laugh at him, we have succeeded in arriving at the lowest moral point possible. Our entire existence in this Arab region was justified, and is still justified, by our suffering; by Jewish violinists in the camps."

Others took a broader view by drawing a link between the routine dehumanising treatment of Palestinians at checkpoints, the desecration of dead bodies and what looks very much like the murder of a terrified 13-year-old Palestinian girl by an army officer in Gaza.

Israelis put great store in a belief that their army is "the most moral in the world" because it says it adheres to a code of "the purity of arms". There is rarely much public questioning of the army's routine explanation that Palestinian civilians who have been killed had been "caught in crossfire", or that children are shot because they are used as cover by fighters.

But the public's confidence has been shaken by the revelations of the past week. The audio recording of the shooting of the 13-year-old, Iman al-Hams, prompted much soul searching, although the revulsion appears to be as much at the Israeli officer firing a stream of bullets into her lifeless body as the killing itself. Some soldiers told Israeli papers that their mothers had sought assurances that they did not do that kind of thing.

One Israeli peace group, the Arik Institute, took out large newspaper adverts to plead for "Jewish patriots" to "open your eyes and look around" at the suffering of Palestinians.

The incidents prompted the army to call in all commanders from the rank of lieutenant-colonel to emphasise the importance of maintaining the "purity of arms" code.

The army's critics say the real problem is not the behaviour of soldiers on the ground but the climate of impunity that emanates from the top.

While the officer responsible for killing Iman al-Hams has been charged with relatively minor offences, and the soldiers who forced the violinist to play were ticked off for being "insensitive", the only troops who were swiftly punished for violating regulations last week were some who posed naked in the snow for a photograph. They were dismissed from their unit.

Last week the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem criticised what it described as a "culture of impunity" within the army. The group says at least 1,656 Palestinian non-combatants have been killed during the intifada, including 529 children.

"To date, one soldier has been convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian," it said.

"The combination of rules of engagement that encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers together with the climate of impunity results in a clear and very troubling message about the value the Israeli military places on Palestinian life."

[theavonlady 2]

Really?

We're shocked?

Is the rest of the world shocked everytime some Palestinian tries to blow himself up at these checkpoints or shoot someone at these checkpoints or have kids smuggle explosive suicide belts through these checkpoints?

And what? No one's shocked by the mortars landing on Israeli communities in the Negev and Gush Katif day in and day out?

I thought not.

[kerosene 0]

The thing is, I expect a professional army to behave professionally. Humilating or assaulting people regardless of who they are is won't actually help the situation.

And yes, Its front page news when suicide bombers atatck israel, I think the people who brainwash children and use them as weapons are scum.

[theavonlady 2]

The thing is, I expect a professional army to behave professionally.  Humilating or assaulting people regardless of who they are is won't actually help the situation.  

And yes, Its front page news when suicide bombers atatck israel, I think the people who brainwash children and use them as weapons are scum.

But you wouldn't bother posting every incident here now, would you?

We saw the whole violin film on TV. We saw no one laughing. If anyone was grimacing, it's because the violin player's neighbors must suffer tremendously.

The only clip I could find of the incident is this short one.

A bereaved Israeli father summed up this incident in context:

Quote[/b] ]"When my daughter, a beautiful 15 year-old girl who loved music, was murdered by Palestinians during the summer of 2001 in Jerusalem, the murderer carried his explosives in a guitar case.

If only an Israeli security person had had the sense and the courage to check that barbarian as he walked the streets of Jerusalem that day. Fifteen productive and positive lives would have continued, and hundreds of injured would have gone home to their families unmaimed and traumatized.

The violinist is still playing his violin. The world didn't end for him last week."

- Arnold Roth, father of the late Malki Chana Roth

[SpongeBob 0]

Happy Anniversary UN Resolution 181 1947-2004

[brgnorway 0]

wrong thread

Thanks Avon

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Gunmen kill Iraqis working for US

Any thoughts on what this will achieve in the long run?

Wrong thread posting?

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Gunmen kill Iraqis working for US

Any thoughts on what this will achieve in the long run?

Wrong thread posting?

.....dam! It must be the excellent Valpolicella Classico Superiore from Zenato!

Ok moving it to the propper thread!

[Nemesis6 0]

About the violinist issue - http://honestreporting.com/article....ile.asp

Read the short paragraph above the 3 starts near the bottom.

[Bernadotte 0]

Reported 10 Feb @ 2:08:

Quote[/b] ]Gunfire from the Atzmona settlement in the Gaza Strip killed a Palestinian man Wednesday, in the <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>first</span> conflict-related fatality since Israel and the Palestinians declared a truce a day ago, Palestinian security officials said.

-- Ha'aretz

Reported 10 Feb @ 10:11

Quote[/b] ]Palestinian gunmen fired 22 mortar shells at Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip today, less than 48 hours after Israeli and Palestinian leaders declared an end to violence at a meeting in Egypt.

...

One building was damaged and no injuries were reported, he said in a telephone interview.

...

The shelling, which started at 3 a.m. local time and lasted at least four hours, was the <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>first</span> outbreak of hostilities since Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon pledged at the Feb. 8 summit to curb violence in parallel and resume peace talks.

...

[very last sentence of article=>] The Israeli daily Haaretz reported that Hamas said its militants were behind the shellings, which the group said came in response to the shooting of a Palestinian man by Israeli soldiers yesterday.

-- Bloomberg.com

It would seem that, according to Bloomberg, gunning down a Palestinian man does not qualify as a hostile act.  

[theavonlady 2]

This is only a partial listing:

Quote[/b] ]

10 February 2005  Terrorist Was Planning an Attack in Jerusalem  

10 February 2005  Ceasefire Explodes with Dozens of Mortar Shells and Rocket

9 February 2005  Hamas Terrorist Was Killed by His Own Bomb  

9 February 2005  The Day After: Bomb and Rocket Attacks  

9 February 2005  IDF Fires at Four Suspected Terrorists Near Atzmona

9 February 2005  Hamas Terrorist Shot Dead – Attack Averted  

8 February 2005  Arrest of Fatah Terrorist Prevented an Attack  

8 February 2005  Terrorists Fire at a Shomron Checkpoint  

8 February 2005  Fatah Terrorists Arrested West of Jenin  

8 February 2005  Hamas Terrorists Apprehended N of Bethlehem  

7 February 2005  Terrorists Planning Suicide Bombings Apprehended

Try again. But try not to be deceitful for a change.

[Bernadotte 0]

This is only a partial listing:

Quote[/b] ]

10 February 2005  Terrorist Was Planning an Attack in Jerusalem  

10 February 2005  Ceasefire Explodes with Dozens of Mortar Shells and Rocket

9 February 2005  Hamas Terrorist Was Killed by His Own Bomb  

9 February 2005  The Day After: Bomb and Rocket Attacks  

9 February 2005  IDF Fires at Four Suspected Terrorists Near Atzmona

9 February 2005  Hamas Terrorist Shot Dead – Attack Averted  

8 February 2005  Arrest of Fatah Terrorist Prevented an Attack  

8 February 2005  Terrorists Fire at a Shomron Checkpoint  

8 February 2005  Fatah Terrorists Arrested West of Jenin  

8 February 2005  Hamas Terrorists Apprehended N of Bethlehem  

7 February 2005  Terrorists Planning Suicide Bombings Apprehended

Try again. But try not to be deceitful for a change.

Deceitful?  How do you figure?  

You're the one who has listed an incident from 7 Feb as violating a ceasefire reached on 8 Feb?

You're the one who has posted a quotation without any reference to the source.

How confused can a person be?  

[theavonlady 2]

This is only a partial listing:

Quote[/b] ]

10 February 2005  Terrorist Was Planning an Attack in Jerusalem  

10 February 2005  Ceasefire Explodes with Dozens of Mortar Shells and Rocket

9 February 2005  Hamas Terrorist Was Killed by His Own Bomb  

9 February 2005  The Day After: Bomb and Rocket Attacks  

9 February 2005  IDF Fires at Four Suspected Terrorists Near Atzmona

9 February 2005  Hamas Terrorist Shot Dead – Attack Averted  

8 February 2005  Arrest of Fatah Terrorist Prevented an Attack  

8 February 2005  Terrorists Fire at a Shomron Checkpoint  

8 February 2005  Fatah Terrorists Arrested West of Jenin  

8 February 2005  Hamas Terrorists Apprehended N of Bethlehem  

7 February 2005  Terrorists Planning Suicide Bombings Apprehended

Try again. But try not to be deceitful for a change.

Deceitful?  How do you figure?  

You're the one who has listed an incident from 7 Feb as violating a ceasefire reached on 8 Feb?

LOL. Not it's a farce. But please go on...........

Quote[/b] ]You're the one who has posted a quotation without any reference to the source.

It's all from INN (see the relevant entry's link - you're a big boy by now).

Quote[/b] ]How confused can a person be?

Obviously quite a bit by the look of your posts.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]You're the one who has posted a quotation without any reference to the source.

It's all from INN (see the relevant entry's link - you're a big boy by now).

Your "relevant entry's link" only connects to the following:

Quote[/b] ]IDF Fires at Four Suspected Terrorists Near Atzmona

16:55 Feb 09, '05 / 30 Shevat 5765

(IsraelNN.com) IDF troops fired at four “suspicious persons†detected in a military area near Atzmona in Gaza, reportedly striking at least one of them.

In the interest of not being deceitful, please be a big girl and try posting a more direct link to the "partial listing" you claim to have quoted?

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]You're the one who has posted a quotation without any reference to the source.

It's all from INN (see the relevant entry's link - you're a big boy by now).

Your "relevant entry's link" only connects to the following:

Quote[/b] ]IDF Fires at Four Suspected Terrorists Near Atzmona

16:55 Feb 09, '05 / 30 Shevat 5765

(IsraelNN.com) IDF troops fired at four “suspicious persons†detected in a military area near Atzmona in Gaza, reportedly striking at least one of them.

In the interest of not being deceitful, please be a big girl and try posting a more direct link to the "partial listing" you claim to have quoted?

Figure out what the linked site's home page is and try using their search field.

I assume you know what a home page and a search field are.

[billybob2002 0]

Just post the damn link...

http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=76616

Damn it11

1 3;lqrjn;aksfa l

Just copy one of the titles and paste it in the Search News box..

[Bernadotte 0]

Just copy one of the titles and paste it in the Search News box..

That does not generate the "partial list" that Avon was supposedly quoting.  Perhaps she wasn't actually quoting any listing at all in that same message where she accused me of being deceitful.

Oh the irony.  

[billybob2002 0]

@Bern.: wth...

Anyway, your fired...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....east_dc

Quote[/b] ]Commanders After Truce Breached

Thu Feb 10, 4:59 PM ET World - Reuters

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas fired three of his top security chiefs on Thursday after militants, puncturing a cease-fire he reached with Israel, bombarded Jewish settlements in Gaza with mortar rounds.

Israeli cabinet minister Ophir Pines praised Abbas for "an unprecedented step" in dismissing the three, members of Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)'s old guard, in response to violence that flared after Tuesday's summit in Egypt with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites).

The United States, which has pledged renewed commitment to Middle East peacemaking after Abbas succeeded Arafat last month, also praised the dismissals.

"President Abbas has made clear his commitment to end violence and terror," State Department spokesman Adam Ereli told reporters in Washington. "This is a sign of his commitment and his determination to follow through."

Palestinian officials said Abdel-Razek al-Majaydeh, public security chief for the West Bank and Gaza, Palestinian Authority (news - web sites) police chief Saeb al-Ajez and Omar Ashour, commander of the security forces in the southern Gaza Strip (news - web sites), were all fired.

Six lower-ranking commanders also lost their jobs.

"Nobody can shirk their duties, and measures will be taken to boost the capability of the security services in accordance with decisions taken at the political level," Palestinian Security Council member Jibril Rajoub told Reuters.

In another reminder of armed chaos in the Palestinian street challenging Abbas, dozens of gunmen including Hamas militants stormed into a Gaza City prison on Thursday and shot dead three inmates in a settling of scores between feuding clans.

Some 50 mortar bombs and rockets hit settlements in Gaza, but there were no casualties in the attacks by militants who have refused to participate in the cease-fire Abbas and Sharon announced at their groundbreaking meeting.

Israel signaled it would make no immediate military response. "If the Palestinians do not know how (to stop such attacks), we do," Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said.

But, referring to Abbas's intention to end more than four years of violence, Mofaz added: "We cannot let this historic opportunity slip through our fingers."

PUBLIC ALERT

The official Palestinian news agency, WAFA, later announced Abbas had declared "a public alert in all of the security services to confront challenges that give Israel a pretext to avoid carrying out the commitments it made at (the summit)."

Hamas, which with other militant groups had maintained a tacit truce for weeks to give Abbas a chance to start talks with Israel, insisted it was not defying the new leader.

It said the mortar barrage was to avenge the killing of a Palestinian by Israeli troops near a settlement on Wednesday. Troops said they fired on suspected intruders. Palestinians said the man was a civilian walking near his home.

Thousands of Palestinian security police fanned out through Gaza two weeks ago on Abbas's orders to prevent attacks on Israelis. But those forces have not tried to disarm gunmen.

A senior Israeli official said Abbas had to crack down on armed factions quickly or risk the collapse of the calm seen as crucial to launching a U.S.-devised peace "road map" that charts steps to a Palestinian state in Israeli-occupied territories.

Abbas has said he prefers to co-opt rather than try to crush militant factions for fear of civil unrest.

In return for quiet, Israel is to release 500 Palestinian prisoners next week, with another 400 to follow.

(Additional reporting by Diala Saadeh in Ramallah and Corinne Heller in Jerusalem)

It seems Abbas is going to have a hard time with Hamas.