The Middle East part 2

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ]The common Arab definition of "peace" is the destruction of the state of Israel, and a new Shoah. The later part is something the Arab media, as pointed out by PMW(Palestinian Media Watch), is supporting.

Man , stop to believe that we wanna ur destruction , a minority hopes it, but not everyone, the Moslems are not limited only to the Middle-East, but also in Africa and Southeast Asia ; I'll repeat it , and repeat it again , we're not fanatical or wahhabis , the majority of muslim people hope peace , love peace , stop thinking that we're all terrorists...damn

[theavonlady 2]

That's it! I'm ending this right now!

11PM. Law & Order is on.

[Akira 0]

Oh nevermind...if you people wanna blow your asses up go for it.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]You replied to someone who offered personal peace with a site that paints all arabs as Jew-hating blood-crazed killers. That is a "hate site."

You mean like whats on the main page of that website you posted. Also, you better remove the link because it shows dead folks on the main page..oops

The pot calling the kettle black.

Surprise!

What the hell are you talking about? I don't see any pics of dead people.

EDIT: Though the front page looks like it was written by idiots. In anycase I guess that is the only answer you can come up with to the quotes listed.

[Nemesis6 0]

Thunder, I don't think all Muslims hate Jews and Israel, but a large, and very influential chunk of them, does. Also, remember that I did not say muslims, I said Arabs - they're the ones that are continually subjected to series such as "Zahra's blue eyes", "I am the Shahid", and a walking puppet talking about comitting a massacre with an AK47...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You replied to someone who offered personal peace with a site that paints all arabs as Jew-hating blood-crazed killers. That is a "hate site."

You mean like whats on the main page of that website you posted. Also, you better remove the link because it shows dead folks on the main page..oops

The pot calling the kettle black.

Surprise!

What the hell are you talking about? I don't see any pics of dead people.

Scroll down

Also, Avon does want peace but her conditions are different...dealing with a Palestinian state.

Edit:

[Akira 0]

If it has dead bodies why did you just post the link you dingleberry??

EDIT: LOL

[billybob2002 0]

If it has dead bodies why did you just post the link you dingleberry??  

[Acecombat 0]

My head is gonna burst if someone calls arabs as anti-semetic .... how can they be if they are the bloody most semetic of all nations present alive right now

Qoute from the book:

History of Arabs - by Prof Phillip K Hitti.

Quote[/b] ]Of the two surviving representatives of the semetic people the Arabians , i a larger measure then the Jews, have preserved the characteristic physical features and mental traits of the family. Their language though youngest among the semetic group from the point of the view of literature has nevertheless , conserved more of the peculiarities of the mother Semetic tongue -including the inflection- then the herbrew and its other sister languages. It therefore affords the best key for the study of the Semetic languages. Islam too in its original form is the logical perfection of semetic religion. In Europe and America the word "Semite" has come to possess a primarily Jewish connotation and that on account of the wide dispersion of the jews in these continents.

The reasons which make the Arabian arabs , particularly the nomads the best representatives of the Semetic family biologically, psychologically, socially and linguistically should be sought in their geographical isolation and in the monotonous uniformity of desert life. Ethnic purity is a rewardof the most ungrateful and isolated envoirnment such as central arabia affords.

Ok so arabs must hate themselves even more if they hate jews because they are semetic

Ahhh the irony of this debacle.

[Thunderbird 0]

@Nemesis : Man , explain me why that minority love france and hate israel ? , the reason's simple , Israel's done a lot of bad things in the past against arabic nations and territories , this is why that minority dislikes your country... If Israel's respected its neighbours and haven't invad arabic territories , maybe one can imagine that everything should be different today...

[Acecombat 0]

To be honest thunderbird but havent arab countries also waged war against Israel with the intent of keeping the land gained from them , only that it didnt happen and we lost if we had won , i can hardly imagine the diehard fanatic rulers of the past giving away the land back to israel either.

The fact of the matter is we have a lot of mis-conceptions on jews on our side aided and abetted by religious conservatives who are seen as the only true muslims unforunately by many in our societys along with the outside world who in them found a pretty neat picture of what they want islam to be like , as it helps them to portray muslims constantly as the bad guys and rally support against us.

In order to make peace with israel we first need to clean our own yards first. Most present arab nations are ruled by one man do-it-all rulers who just enjoy the rule for power and wealth and rich life style and the comforts that it brings. They dont care about the people much or what direction the country is moving in or how it could be made better , but then again you cant expect such things from uneducated people. Until unless tribalism is eliminated and true values of islam and a progressive natured society is built up here , we;ll always be in the sh!t.

[Thunderbird 0]

I totaly agree

[Placebo 28]

If this thread cannot progress beyond incessant one line bickering by and to only a few people it will be closed, unless threads in OT serve and are used by numerous people they are a waste of our bandwidth.

Prove this thread's worth or it can be closed and everything will be lumped together in the war on terror thread.

[Nemesis6 0]

Well, let's see - Israel didn't really invade anything, except Lebanon. The original territory given to Israel was carved out of the region of Palestine. The jews now had a homeland. A country of their own. Next, the Arab nations goaded the Arabs living in Israel to "get out so we can get in", thus, Israel hasn't driven out any of the original inhabitants, they left volountarily thinking that when they came back, Israel would be destroyed. Problem is, they never got in, they didn't even try.

By the way, I'd like you to answer this - What "bad things" has Israel done in the past?

[miles teg 1]

Wow! Nemesis... you need to seriously look outside of Israeli history books and look at other accounts of the history of the birth of Israel.

The problem is that both Israeli and Arab historians have VASTLY different historical accounts of what happened.

But from sociological/psychological perspective it simply makes no sense whatsoever that Palistinians would have given up their homes, their businesses and their entire lives simply so Arab forces could go in and sterilize the land of Jews especially when many of the villages were completely Arab. They had no reason to leave. From 3rd party accounts there was alot of dirty tricks and lab grabs done during inter-ethnic fighting during the British occupation which was further agitated by European Jewish immigrants.

However, at the same time, Arab historians neglect to mention that some of these landgrabs were in response to attacks on Jews by Arabs and that there was a lot of low-level conflict going on. Arab historians (most of them anyways) also often neglect to mention the fact that many Arab Muslims were allowed to stay within Israel and have Israeli citizenship.

So it wasn't exactly a fullscale ethnic cleansing as portrayed by the Arab media. If Israel wanted to do that, they could.

So I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. What's done is done for better or for worse. The main focus today should be on reconciliation between Israel and a new Palistinian state as well as a strong focus on Palistinian unity in order to insure that rogue groups don't undermine peace. Hopefully Palistinian terrorist groups will now focus their energies on political efforts towards building a new democratic Palistinian state and developing strong economic ties with all their neighbors, including Israel. Eventually, I believe that with strong trade and immigration, that Israel and Palestine will become mixed Jewish/Muslim/Christian nations with very few differences. Bitter enemies have become good allies in the past. An example is France and German or the US and Britain. Reconciliation can happen. It just requires strong leadership and a lot of work.

By the way, excellent post Acecombat. I think you really hit the nail on the head. It is VERY refreshing seeing a Saudi with an open mind like that.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Akira 0]

Constantly worry about what happened in the past and feeling hate because of something you never directly were involved in is ridiculous. Worry about "the past" , which you cannot change, and basing present actions on that will get you no where.

It's like me being pissed at the British for the burning of Washington and demanding the destruction of the UK.

[Acecombat 0]

Thanks Miles , but i only said what makes common sense to me and it shames me to say that many that live here dont see eye on eye with me on that.

By the way miles do you support the 2 nation formula? I mean in your post you say that you hope eventually both countries will become mixed populace of all 3 religions then why not have one country? If all three can co-exist in either place then not why not make it a single entity?

[Nemesis6 0]

It's like me being pissed at the British for the burning of Washington and demanding the destruction of the UK.

Agreed. Totally agreed.

[Akira 0]

It's like me being pissed at the British for the burning of Washington and demanding the destruction of the UK.

Agreed. Totally agreed.

I meant it for both sides. Both sides have some serious maturing to do. Being continually pissed off about what happened in the past will make sure you never get into the possible future of peace. The past will forever be this obstacle that neither side is able to hurdle, and without getting over that hurdle, peace is impossible. Then again another obstacle is both sides dismissing their own culpability in the mess. Got a lot of hurdles and I don't see them being overcome anytime soon....

[miles teg 1]

Thanks Miles , but i only said what makes common sense to me and it shames me to say that many that live here dont see eye on eye with me on that.

By the way miles do you support the 2 nation formula? I mean in your post you say that you hope eventually both countries will become mixed populace of all 3 religions then why not have one country? If all three can co-exist in either place then not why not make it a single entity?

Perhaps some time in the future, there could be an effort at Israeli-Palistinian unification.   This will be made easier in the future I believe especially once immigration restrictions are relaxed and you begin to see alot more intermarriage of Jews, Muslims, and Christians within Israel and the Palistinian territories as well as perhaps eventually Palistinians immigrating into Israel and settling there, and vice versa, Jews moving to Palistinian neighborhoods to set up businesses or to work.  

Once this becomes normal, barring any further religious based violence, I think that the atmosphere could become right for a unified single state.  However even the simple thing of the new name for the state would be problematic and itself would cause people to turn away from that idea.  

So a single state I do not see happening anytime in then near future.  For now I think a two-state policy is the most realistic and most attainable goal towards the most important thing...peace and prosperity for the region for Arabs, Jews, Christians, and anyone else who wants to live there.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Nemesis6 0]

Thunderbird, I don't want to press the Issue, but I'd still like to hear what negative things Israel has done to its neighboors...

[Thunderbird 0]

I don't know what they teach you over there , but your army and your colonists've done a lot and a lot of bad things...

And why not to ask your neighbours ? they'll be more suited than me to answer you...

[Nemesis6 0]

Well, asking them is downright here impossible, so I've gotta ask again - You seem have some motive for saying that Israel has done some bad things to its neighboors... what, or which things were you refering to?

[Thunderbird 0]

After the second world war, why the Arab and Moslem world had to pay for the crimes of the Christian world by offering to Israel a territory which has belonged to the Arab people for 7 centuries ?

1947-1948-1949 : 800 000 poor palestinian persons've left their territory,their family,their history,their past,their honor for your country

1967 , after the war against the arabic countries , you've invaded a lot of arabic and muslim territories, the arabic countries haven't attacked Israel to invade "your" territory , but to oblige you to stop extending your territory while making flee the local inhabitants

1982 : The Israeli army've encouraged the massacres of Sabra and Chatila by killing One hundred poor and innocent palestinian s, and before you've invaded the Lebanon by killing a lot of innocents for only 100 Palestinian fighters...

And actually your colonies don't stop extending , with the US help you've actually a state , an army , maybe nuke and what do the poor palestinian people get ?? stones and kamikazes

Have u already one time of your life tried to understand why palestinian go to kill themselves in your country ??

The Despair

the despair to see one day a Free palestinian country with its own autority , an official country as the others...

its people've fought and still fighting.... and why ?

have you already tried one time in your like to understand why have they fought ?

for a hope , a hope of a better life...a life as yours and as your neighbours...

[theavonlady 2]

More Arab rivisionist history. Hey you modern day colonizer of Europe, look who's talking?!

Quote[/b] ]The Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement....We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home....We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East and our two movements complete one another. The Jewish movement is nationalist and not imperialist. And there is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be a real success without the other.

- Emir Faisal, son of Sharif Hussein of Mecca, the leader of Arab nationalism, 1919

Quote[/b] ]“Our settlers do not come here as do the colonists from the Occident to have natives do their work for them; they themselves set their shoulders to the plow and they spend their strength and their blood to make the land fruitful. But it is not only for ourselves that we desire its fertility. The Jewish farmers have begun to teach their brothers, the Arab farmers, to cultivate the land more intensively; we desire to teach them further: together with them we want to cultivate the land -- to 'serve' it, as the Hebrew has it. The more fertile this soil becomes, the more space there will be for us and for them. We have no desire to dispossess them: we want to live with them. We do not want to dominate them: we want to serve with them.....â€

— Martin Buber, Jewish theologian and philosopher, 1939