THE UNSUNG MOD - communist campaign?

[sim 0]

Quote[/b] ]ok boys we better get back to the communist campaign subject,

Why is everyone going off topic... again

I did like the Resistance campaign but the only thing I found hard about it was the amounts of enemy, lol. Carrying over the ammo wasn't to bad seeing as I always just grabbed the enemys stuff when I'd killed them

It would be kool to see this aspect brought into the Communist campaign

sim

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]did you guys think the resistance campaign was too hard? how u had to conserve your guns and ammo, and soldiers because they all carry over into the next mission.

I think that would be great for a VC campaign,

your thoughts?

Mabye, my main problem with Res camopaign was the later missons, they were tough anyway, and the friendly AI just isnt up to it, every so often one of them just leaps up and runs towards the enemy, or just deiceides to stand up despite the hail of russian machine gun fire.

[drow 0]

but remember everyone, just because its written on the internet doesnt mean its right.

Yea because it's not as though my entire second year history study is on the clusterfuck that was the Us foreign policy and containing communism in Asia, just because one posts on an internet forum with a little knowledge does not mean he has copied and pasted from a website.  

ARVN in general gave up because many felt the US could do it better and where disillusioned with diems corrupt regime.

Vietnam was not about Good Vs Evil, it was a civil war which the US failed to understand and should never have got involved in.

ok professor...

Back to the campaign discussion gentlemen, or our thread will be closed, this I can assure you.

Basically post all your ideas and we might use/include them in the campaign.

Post none, and you will get a campaign you may not be happy with, this is your chance to get your input in, use it if you care to.

This is not supposed to be your chance to show you know more about the nam war than me, im sure lots of people do.

I have however been studying this war for the last 2 years on my own accord, its become a bit of an obsession i would have to say, tho it may not be politics and such, i have studied the way it was for the real people there etc. and i would concider myself quite knowledgable on the Vietnam War experience.

Bring forth your ideas please gentlemen.

[billybob2002 0]

What year would the campaign end and is the SA-7 included in the mod? I got a idea for SA-7 mission but the SA-7 came late in the war. Is your character going to die at the end? I got a great way he could die...

[Winters 1]

I still say that Tet or the Easter Offensive would make a great NVA/VC campaign. I have plenty of info on Tet that i can't post here because nearly every 'Nam reference site has an image that would get me banned

[billybob2002 0]

I still say that Tet or the Easter Offensive would make a great NVA/VC campaign. I have plenty of info on Tet that i can't post here because nearly every 'Nam reference site has an image that would get me banned

hmmm....

Tet would be "cool" ...You gain a distrust with the NVA/VC because of the Hue massacre and other massacres (you see one) during Tet but you continue to fight. Later on, you defect because you saw that the NVA do not truly care about south viet. people and does not care if your dead or alive. You are killed in your first mission working for the americans (could be unit that the american character is in...tie-in) because they distrust you and do not give you a weapon (you are used has a guide). I forgot the name that the americans gave to the NVA/VC that defected (yes, they did defected)..does everybody know it? Just throwing out ideas

[philcommando 0]

scrounging for weapons?

Hehe...The VC owned the countryside and were practically given US made weapons. But of course you could throw in a raid or 2 on a supply depot..would put the 'volunteers' in action. When the draft was implemented despite protests, there was a provision that one can either be drafted or volunteer for the war. The volunteer would have the choice to choose his service, army, airforce or navy vocations. We know the army is not only made of only fighters but logistic and service personnel too, and it was huge. Those days, retrenching and downsizing was unheard of, unlike today where 1 man does 3 men's work. Without the good and vital logistic chain, things would have been hairy.

For american and resistance fighters, hmm...a no brainer...chicom weapons were more for trophy. What they would want from the VC and NVA were the packs!...they were soft, light and quick dry, unlike their own packs. AND SOCKS!!!!!!.....Its cold and damp in the monsoon all year round highlands and wet all the time. Its no fun to wear wet socks with wet boots. Many a soldier suffer frostbites on cold nights. They would kill for socks to keep their feet dry!!!...no wonder the vietnamese wore sandals....

As for the veracity of missions...i guess up to the mission maker...but one truism holds. When the bullets start flying, the first rule of survival is - survive and shoot back first, ask questions later.  

[drow 0]

I still say that Tet or the Easter Offensive would make a great NVA/VC campaign. I have plenty of info on Tet that i can't post here because nearly every 'Nam reference site has an image that would get me banned  

hmmm....

Tet would be "cool" ...You gain a distrust with the NVA/VC because of the Hue massacre and other massacres (you see one) during Tet but you continue to fight. Later on, you defect because you saw that the NVA do not truly care about south viet. people and does not care if your dead or alive. You are killed in your first mission working for the americans (could be unit that the american character is in...tie-in) because they distrust you and do not give you a weapon (you are used has a guide). I forgot the name that the americans gave to the NVA/VC that defected (yes, they did defected)..does everybody know it?   Just throwing out ideas

Kit Carson scouts, they were usually ex-VC or ex-NVA.

i think the real Kit Carson was an american indian scout... (way back in the six shooter days i guess) or else he was liek Tonto (indian sidekick) to the Lone Ranger in some other TV show im not sure...

...wait, we're on the internet, yes i am  

Kit Carson Information

"Kit Carson was a trapper, scout, Indian agent, soldier and authentic legend of the West."

Quote[/b] ]The VC owned the countryside and were practically given US made weapons

- Philcommando are u saying the VC didnt have troubles getting weapons?  

They had to be resourceful, thats why they would take dead GIs weapons etc. dont u agree?

[philcommando 0]

Hmm..how shall i put it so that it wont be offensive but true at the same time?

Facts:-

1. Between 1960 to 1965, there were no GIs in S.Vietnam.

2. US had been supplying and 'training' S. Vietnam peasants so that it wont be necessary to send its own troops in.

3. Peasants with a few weeks training were sent to the field to fight the forces who had kick the french out.

4. S.Vietnam has a huge landmass and has several provinces.

5. of course, there are more facts, but then i dont wanna make some folks cry.....analyse it for yourself...

Edit:- after 1965, Uncle Bear was supplying arms to the NVA, no need for the nato standard issues. Even tanks, which no one in the MAC believed or wanted to believe. Some of the troops who were overun on the hills in Khe San and had been been trapped in bunkers had to scream over the radio to ensure MAC heard in right!

[badlymad 0]

Actually I think that the NVA campaign ( if there is going to be one) should take place from 1971-1975, when the US were already beginning to demobilize and the NVA were able to start fighting in the open against the US and the ARVN.

There can be missions involving fighting over places like Lam Son 719, Quang Tri, and Saigon, and in Cambodia and Laos against the ARVN and american SF. The late war fighting actually allows for lots of armour to be used and would be easier to do rather than always fighting in a jungle.

Also, the campaign can be more realistic since a NVA soldier would be more likely to survive late-war battles where the chances of survival were more likely against the weaker ARVN, in contrast to one sided battles like Khe Sahn or the Tet offensive.

[drow 0]

after 1965, Uncle Bear was supplying arms to the NVA, no need for the nato standard issues. Even tanks, which no one in the MAC believed or wanted to believe. Some of the troops who were overun on the hills in Khe San and had been been trapped in bunkers had to scream over the radio to ensure MAC heard in right!

it wasnt the VC who attacked khe sanh tho, im talking about a VC campaign

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]5. of course, there are more facts, but then i dont wanna make some folks cry.....analyse it for yourself...

HA, the draft myth...

Quote[/b] ]it wasnt the VC who attacked khe sanh tho, im talking about a VC campaign

Yep, Khe Sanh was a NVA operation. The VC were sneaking in to major cities, towns and etc. for Tet.

[billybob2002 0]

@Drow: If you responded to my pm, pm again because my mailbox was full...oops.

[calm_terror 0]

ok sorry for the late reply on this but

what does a pollock know aboot veit'nam?

and aboot our mod lost brothers.

we can't really call them sandniggers.

since for one the idf do not speak english they speak hebrew and would have a different slang for them

but the arabic terms for jews is easier they call them zionist, or pigs, dirty jew, there is a few others but i can't think of them, right now. so um yeah try to know our mod before making an statement..

[Placebo 29]

Now the discussion in this forum must go back to the campaign itself and not the issue of the last few posts, a refusal to do that will lead to the posts being deleted and WL+ & PR handed out to the perpetrators.

Calm Terror

I assume your bad spelling was meant to be this

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=polack

Quote[/b] ]Offensive Slang. Used as a disparaging term for a person of Polish birth or descent.

Rather than....

Pollock - A marine food fish (Pollachius virens) of northern Atlantic waters, related to the cod.

Or....

Jackson Pollock - American artist. Using his drip technique of painting, he became a leader of abstract expressionism.

As such you're ignoring a moderator's instruction and being very close to crossing the no bigotry line, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and only PR you for 1 week with a warning level increase of 1.

Now back on topic please people

[miles teg 1]

I like the idea about the campaign being in the late part of the war. To have it simulate a campaign by a NVA or VC defector would not really be a NVA or VC campaign (except in the first part) and it would just reinforce stereotypes that the North Vietnamese were all evil people. Plus for the most part, most of the NVA and VC were highly motivated. More often it was the case of ARVN soldiers defecting to the NVA or VC.

I agree with Badlymad that a late war era campaign would give the NVA/VC player much greater chances of survival if they were fighting against ARVN troops. As I stated in an earlier post, there were some really hardcore infantry vs. tank battles during this era in which the ARVN faught very hard.

Eventually however the NVA and VC forces won key strategic victories despite American air support.

Furthermore a campaign in this era would not force the player to have to kill American units if that bothers them.

But if you decide to make a defector campaign then well...it'll just be another US campaign basically...kinda defeats the purpose.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Actually I think that the NVA campaign ( if there is going to be one) should take place from 1971-1975, when the US were already beginning to demobilize and the NVA were able to start fighting in the open against the US and the ARVN.

There can be missions involving fighting over places like Lam Son 719, Quang Tri, and Saigon, and in Cambodia and Laos against the ARVN and american SF. The late war fighting actually allows for lots of armour to be used and would be easier to do rather than always fighting in a jungle.

Also, the campaign can be more realistic since a NVA soldier would be more likely to survive late-war battles where the chances of survival were more likely against the weaker ARVN, in contrast to one sided battles like Khe Sahn or the Tet offensive.

Hardly, Nixon escelated the conflict and extended it in to Cambodia.

But i agree both VC and NVA campaign's would be great or an intertwinning of them would be cool.

[miles teg 1]

By the way, I hope the moderators consider the irony of Calm Terror getting post restricted for using bigot type language. Its amusing that it's cool if we talk about gooks in the Vietnam War but we can't call Poles "polacks". While CT's usage maybe might not have been the wisest, does it mean that it's totally cool if I make a WWII campaign depicting German invading Poland (or Russians invading Poland) in which the Germans (or Russians) refer to Poles as "Polacks" and then assume that the moderators will be totally cool with that?

I would think that it wouldn't be cool with most OFP players.

But is that just because most of the OFP players here are not Asian, and a large number are of Eastern European backgrounds?

Yes, Calm Terror uses shock tactics to make a point and can be blunt, but he did it to serve a point (although I wouldn't have done it that way personally).

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[billybob2002 0]

For the sake of this discussion and threads of this campaign on the forums, let's end the discussion of what is or isn't proper and concentrate on discussing the campaign, should it be necessary to discuss issues related to political correctness when the campaign comes out then we'll cross that bridge etc. etc.

Drow I respect you were trying to use it in context.

Offtime you're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to go against the wishes of a moderator, on this occasion I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your intention was solely innocent humour.

Now the discussion in this forum must go back to the campaign itself and not the issue of the last few posts, a refusal to do that will lead to the posts being deleted and WL+ & PR handed out to the perpetrators.

[Placebo 29]

By the way, I hope the moderators consider the irony of Calm Terror getting post restricted for using bigot type language. Its amusing that it's cool if we talk about gooks in the Vietnam War but we can't call Poles "polacks". While CT's usage maybe might not have been the wisest, does it mean that it's totally cool if I make a WWII campaign depicting German invading Poland (or Russians invading Poland) in which the Germans (or Russians) refer to Poles as "Polacks" and then assume that the moderators will be totally cool with that?

but it is ok to just use the word gook to reffer to an asian person?

so if i had a mod that put the polish againest the germans i could use the term polack to reffer to polish troops?

and make posts aboot "a german advanced over the polack lines in a matter of seconds"?

It's not ok for anyone to use any terms like that. However whilst their usage was close to the line, the fact it was more discussing whether such usage is appropriate in general, rather than being aimed at one specific individual as a means of winning an argument (that's the impression I got) means that yours was the other side of the line where I felt action was necessary.

Paul.

Interesting that you decide to try to continue arguing in public what Calm Terror tried to argue in private, do you wish to be PR'd as well for ignoring a moderator's instruction?

Anyone who continues to try to argue about the right or wrong of epiphets/names of any kind in this thread will be post restricted and receive a warning level increase, if you cannot respect their mod by keeping on topic then get out of their thread.

[drow 0]

By the way, I hope the moderators consider the irony of Calm Terror getting post restricted for using bigot type language.  Its amusing that it's cool if we talk about gooks in the Vietnam War but we can't call Poles "polacks".  While CT's usage maybe might not have been the wisest, does it mean that it's totally cool if I make a WWII campaign depicting German invading Poland (or Russians invading Poland) in which the Germans (or Russians) refer to Poles as "Polacks" and then assume that the moderators will be totally cool with that?  

I would think that it wouldn't be cool with most OFP players.

But is that just because most of the OFP players here are not Asian, and a large number are of Eastern European backgrounds?

Yes, Calm Terror uses shock tactics to make a point and can be blunt, but he did it to serve a point (although I wouldn't have done it that way personally).

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

you sound like an idiot man sorry...

dude you used the term "polack" to directly insult Offtime and Polish people in general, i spoke of the term "gook" in context to history...

far different.

(and to set one thing straight, if we have narroration in the campaign it will be from a modern day point of view, speaking politically correct. unlike saying "they advanced over the polack lines" in the ww2 mod mission breifing someone mentioned... thats rediculous)

(edit - sorry placebo is this inappropriet for me to post? PM me if so and ill remove this message.)

[offtime 0]

By the way, I hope the moderators consider the irony of Calm Terror getting post restricted for using bigot type language.  Its amusing that it's cool if we talk about gooks in the Vietnam War but we can't call Poles "polacks".  While CT's usage maybe might not have been the wisest, does it mean that it's totally cool if I make a WWII campaign depicting German invading Poland (or Russians invading Poland) in which the Germans (or Russians) refer to Poles as "Polacks" and then assume that the moderators will be totally cool with that?  

I would think that it wouldn't be cool with most OFP players.

But is that just because most of the OFP players here are not Asian, and a large number are of Eastern European backgrounds?

Yes, Calm Terror uses shock tactics to make a point and can be blunt, but he did it to serve a point (although I wouldn't have done it that way personally).

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

germans were calling us "polish pigs", "slovenian pigs".

i dont mind if it will be in some ofp campaign becouse thats how it was and it doesnt say shit about us but about germans, how much they were thinking they are greater race.

@calm_terror

but you called me like that in open discussion.

depreciatingly, insulting

Quote[/b] ]what does a pollock know aboot veit'nam?

whats that says about you ?

and my answer

i know as much as you probably, we both werent there, in those times.... all we know is what we can read or hear from other ppl.

but my military experience gives me some knowledge about fears, doubts, hates....

and thats what was point of our strange conversation.

and dude, my speling is terrible, but yours... shish...

[drow 0]

ok sorry for the late reply on this but

what does a pollock know aboot veit'nam?

and aboot our mod lost brothers.

we can't really call them sandniggers.

since for one the idf do not speak english they speak hebrew and would have a different slang for them

but the arabic terms for jews is easier they call them zionist, or pigs, dirty jew, there is a few others but i can't think of them, right now. so um yeah try to know our mod before making an statement..

this isnt a war, dont make it one.

you have your mod, im not interested.

[Major Fubar 0]

Do I really need to remind people of the following forum rules:

Quote[/b] ]2§7)No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments that you wish to make about the board or moderators or anything like that please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive, please remember we have lives outside of the forum so can't promise to reply immediately. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo) he will be happy to look into the matter.

...and on a similar note:

Quote[/b] ]1§1)No Flaming/Flame-baiting

Abusive comments, personal attacks and name calling are not allowed either on the board or through PM's. If you receive a PM that is abusive or you find offensive please forward it to a moderator who will investigate. Flame-baiting is also not tolerated, flame-baiting is making a post to someone that is obviously intended to elicit an angry response.

Consider this a FINAL warning. Anybody else who feels like flagrantly ignoring these rules can expect a lengthy holiday from posting at these forums.

As EVERYBODY should know by now, if you wish to discuss a moderation decision, you can do so via PM.

Now, please stick to the topic at hand - which is discussing the mod.

[drow 0]

regarding the communist campaign...

As of yet we only have a jungle island, so Hue campaigns are out of the question for now. We need to focus on a less addon dependant campaign than say the US forces campaign would be, a communist guerilla forces campaign could possibly be slipped in with the demo...