Question on Falluja picture today

[jens198 0]

Hi,

while watching some Falluja footage on a german news magazine today I noticed that one of the US-troopers is using a sowiet type AK-rifle. Well, I heard of special forces units using enemey "hardware" (for deception etc.) but I never saw regular forces doing so. Maybe this guy ran out of 5.56? Damaged his M-4?

Jens

[billybob2002 0]

I think the AK is good for urban combat. Anyway, you should of posted this in the Iraq thread...

[gandalf the white 0]

i'm going to save this pic for all the US patriots saying the M4 is the best

TAKE THIS UP YOUR ***! WOO!!! thanks man!

[Winters 1]

meh, AK - M4, you still die anyway

[denoir 0]

A while ago there was an article posted in the Iraq thread. Apparently the use of AKs is among US troops primarily for two reasons:

1) The M16/M4 has to be cleaned several times a day in Iraq's desert environment or it craps out. AKs can handle more dirt.

2) Shortage of ammo. Apparently getting ammo for an AK is easier.

[Bordoy 0]

2) Shortage of ammo. Apparently getting ammo for an AK is easier.

because everyone else is dead who uses it.

[lee_h._oswald 0]

because everyone else is dead who uses it.

And you get ~10000 rounds in each house + some RPG's, Mig fighterplanes and maybe some WMD's.

j/k

MfG Lee

[hellfish6 7]

Sometimes it's because of a shortage of weapons. If tank crews and artillerymen are being used as infantry (and they are) then they sometimes don't have enough weapons to go around. For example, an M-1 tank crew usually only has 2 M-4 rifles and 4 pistols. Not very useful when your crew has suddently turned into a rifle fire team. AKs are in plentiful supply as is the ammo. Makes sense to me.

[Blake 0]

Maybe he's ran out of ammo etc. who knows, ammunition logistics might not be that fluent especially if there's risk of hostile fire all around.

AK47S is quite light and handy weapon, the open sights are quicker to bring bear towards the enemy in closer quarters.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

If tank crews and artillerymen are being used as infantry (and they are) then they sometimes don't have enough weapons to go around.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!

No, sorry, that one really made me laugh my ass off...

It makes no sense whatsoever to turn crews into infantrymen unless their assigned vehicle has been destroyed, or ran out of fuel and/or ammo... heck I wouldn't go on foot if I could be in an Abrams!!! (Takes those city buildings down a LOT better!!!)

[raedor 8]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 17 2004,00:37)]

If tank crews and artillerymen are being used as infantry (and they are) then they sometimes don't have enough weapons to go around.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!

No, sorry, that one really made me laugh my ass off...

It makes no sense whatsoever to turn crews into infantrymen unless their assigned vehicle has been destroyed, or ran out of fuel and/or ammo... heck I wouldn't go on foot if I could be in an Abrams!!! (Takes those city buildings down a LOT better!!!)

hellfish is/was (?) soldier, i guess he knows what he's saying

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Still, can't stop smiling at this because it's the almighty US Army we're talking about... lack of weapons... LOL!!!

[bn880 5]

Heh,

question? What's to question, it's not an edited picture is it.

[Silent N Deadly 0]

If you look closely the others don't have AK's. Right? They don't seem to look like AK's.

[raedor 8]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 17 2004,01:07)]Still, can't stop smiling at this because it's the almighty US Army we're talking about... lack of weapons... LOL!!!

war is not a game where you can restart or go back every ten minutes to get some more ammo and stuff.

[Gadger 0]

You'll see the majority of fire team leaders and/or assistant gunners using the AK in an urban/desert environment. Sustained fire and reliability in a harsh environment, can't ask for anything more.

[bn880 5]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 17 2004,01:07)]Still, can't stop smiling at this because it's the almighty US Army we're talking about... lack of weapons... LOL!!!

war is not a game where you can restart or go back every ten minutes to get some more ammo and stuff.

yeah, so it is nice to be prepared

[raedor 8]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 17 2004,01:07)]Still, can't stop smiling at this because it's the almighty US Army we're talking about... lack of weapons... LOL!!!

war is not a game where you can restart or go back every ten minutes to get some more ammo and stuff.

yeah, so it is nice to be prepared

that does not help when you accidentally mistake your m4 for your handgrenades and throw it instead

[Tovarish 0]

This is OLD news

http://www.sacbee.com/24hour....2c.html

Quote[/b] ]A U.S. Army soldier holds a Kalashnikov rifle in Baqouba, Iraq, on Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2003. Many U.S. soldiers are carrying Kalashnikovs they have confiscated from Iraqis.

Quote[/b] ]More U.S. troops using confiscated AK-47 rifles

By ANDREW ENGLAND, Associated Press

Last Updated 11:24 am PDT Sunday, August 24, 2003

BAQOUBA, Iraq (AP) - An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger.

Within seconds the assault rifle has blasted out 30 rounds. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. Test fire complete.

U.S. troops in Iraq may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but they're certainly getting their hands on the country's stock of Kalashnikovs - and, they say, they need them.

The soldiers based around Baqouba are from an armor battalion, which means they have tanks, Humvees and armored personnel carriers. But they are short on rifles.

A four-man tank crew is issued two M4 assault rifles and four 9mm pistols, relying mostly on the tank's firepower for protection.

But now they are engaged in guerrilla warfare, patrolling narrow roads and goat trails where tanks are less effective. Troops often find themselves dismounting to patrol in smaller vehicles, making rifles essential.

"We just do not have enough rifles to equip all of our soldiers. So in certain circumstances we allow soldiers to have an AK-47. They have to demonstrate some proficiency with the weapon ... demonstrate an ability to use it," said Lt. Col. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division.

"Normally an armor battalion is fighting from its tanks. Well, we are not fighting from our tanks right now," Young said. "We are certainly capable of performing the missions that we have been assigned, there's no issue with that, but we do find ourselves somewhat challenged."

In Humvees, on tanks - but never openly on base - U.S. soldiers are carrying the Cold War-era weapon, first developed in the Soviet Union but now mass produced around the world.

The AK is favored by many of the world's fighters, from child soldiers in Africa to rebel movements around the world, because it is light, durable and known to jam less frequently.

Now U.S. troops who have picked up AKs on raids or confiscated them at checkpoints are putting the rifles to use - and they like what they see.

Some complain that standard U.S. military M16 and M4 rifles jam too easily in Iraq's dusty environment. Many say the AK has better "knockdown" power and can kill with fewer shots.

"The kind of war we are in now ... you want to be able to stop the enemy quick," said Sgt. 1st Class Tracy S. McCarson of Newport News, Va., an army scout, who carries an AK in his Humvee.

Some troops say the AK is easier to maintain and a better close-quarters weapon. Also, it has "some psychological affect on the enemy when you fire back on them with their own weapons," McCarson said.

Most U.S. soldiers agree the M16 and the M4 - a newer, shorter version of the M16 that has been used by American troops since the 1960s - is better for long distance, precision shooting.

But around Baqouba, troops are finding themselves attacked by assailants hidden deep in date palm groves. Or they are raiding houses, taking on enemies at close-quarters.

Two weeks ago, Sgt. Sam Bailey of Cedar Falls, Iowa, was in a Humvee when a patrol came under rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun fire. It was dark, the road narrow. On one side, there was a mud wall and palms trees, on the other a canal surrounded by tall grass.

Bailey, who couldn't see who was firing, had an AK-47 on his lap and his M4 up front. The choice was simple.

"I put the AK on auto and started spraying," Bailey said.

Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK - they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.

"It's plentiful," said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16.

Young doesn't carry an AK but has fired one. He's considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasn't yet because "if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them."

Staff Sgt. Michael Perez, a tanker, said he would take anything over his standard issue 9mm pistol when he's out of his tank.

And the AK's durability has impressed him.

"They say you can probably drop this in the water and leave it overnight, pull it out in the morning, put in a magazine and it will work," Perez said.

[Blake 0]

That was an interesting read...

Probably AK makes a nice souvenir too.

[FSPilot 0]

Maybe the AK having full auto capability as opposed to the M-4 (or M-16A2) is a plus too. You definately can't hit anything at long range, but when you're trying to get somebody on the other side of the room it'll probably come in handy.

[Tovarish 0]

I might be wrong but isn't the M-4 model used by the U.S. military full auto?

From the Colt website:

http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp

Quote[/b] ]AVAILABLE MODELS

RO933 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Full Auto

RO935 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Burst

RO733 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Full Auto

RO735 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Burst

[FSPilot 0]

You're right, my mistake. The M16A2 isn't though.

Who knows. Maybe he just wanted to try somebody's new AK model.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

 Maybe he just wanted to try somebody's new AK model.

Thats what I was thinking, maybe he was using it as a "toy".

[Akira 0]

2) Shortage of ammo. Apparently getting ammo for an AK is easier.

because everyone else is dead who uses it.

Try Congress has appropriated the funds for training and ammunition for pork projects.

Was a 60 minutes on it.