USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[chops 111]

I like it This is a politics thread isn't?

[Bordoy 0]

@ Nov. 08 2005,02:22)]

Tex is from Texas and therefore from the USA, and he HAS saw it.

Anyway did you miss your 'T'? What is an 'errorist'?

But pictures like that seem to make a joke out of a serious situation.

My ex-roommate had a bumper sticker with that exact wording  that he decided would look good on our refrigerator. God he was a moron. What I gathered from him was that an 'errorist' is one who commits errors (he wasn't the brightest guy but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this particular point).

Bit different to the 'socialist worker' banners here in the UK. They have pictures of Bush saying 'number 1 terrorist'. Would they say that if they had a relative who was killed in New York, London, Bali etc?

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/11/08/evolution.debate.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- At the risk of re-igniting the same heated nationwide debate it sparked six years ago, the Kansas Board of Education approved new public school science standards Tuesday that cast doubt on the theory of evolution.

The 6-4 vote was a victory for "intelligent design" advocates who helped draft the standards. Intelligent design holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Critics of the language charged that it was an attempt to inject God and creationism into public schools in violation of the separation of church and state.

All six of those who voted for the standards were Republicans. Two Republicans and two Democrats voted against them.

"This is a sad day. We're becoming a laughingstock of not only the nation, but of the world, and I hate that," said board member Janet Waugh, a Kansas City Democrat.

Supporters of the standards said they will promote academic freedom. "It gets rid of a lot of dogma that's being taught in the classroom today," said board member John Bacon, an Olathe Republican.

The standards state that high school students must understand major evolutionary concepts. But they also declare that some concepts have been challenged in recent years by fossil evidence and molecular biology.

The challenged concepts cited include the basic Darwinian theory that all life had a common origin and the theory that natural chemical processes created the building blocks of life.

In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena.

Im glad I'm not in Kansas.  

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.nbc4.tv/politics/5268517/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]LOS ANGELES -- Voters rejected all four of Gov. Schwarzenegger's ballot proposals, along with every other proposal in the special election on Tuesday.

But Tuesday night at a Beverly Hills hotel, Schwarzenegger chose not to concede defeat and tried to put a positive spin on the night.

He told supporters, "Tomorrow, we begin anew."

Voters overwhelmingly defeated Proposition 76, a proposal to cap state spending; Prop 77, the redistricting initiative; and Prop 74, the teacher tenure initiative. The final piece of Schwarzenegger's "year of reform" -- a plan to restrict political spending by public employee unions -- also failed.

Seem slike Arnold should wake up and face reality. Just because he is saying it is for "reform" doesn't make it happen. People voted down the referendums. Perhaps that should give hims some hint.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bit different to the 'socialist worker' banners here in the UK. They have pictures of Bush saying 'number 1 terrorist'. Would they say that if they had a relative who was killed in New York, London, Bali etc?

A bit like saying everyone who had a relative killed supports Bush. A kin to assuming that Bush is performing the will of the those who lost a loved one. Kind of like saying that Bush is avenging their deaths. Similiar to calling Bush the "champion" of those killed.

Sorry. Can't follow you there.

Man...been awhile since I posted here.

[walker 0]

Hi all

With George Bush Jnr's job approval ratings dropping through the floor and Republican chances in the 2006 elections looking more and more dire with each week Republicans are increasingly pointing the finger at Dodgy Dick Cheney's office.

The major problem for Republicans is the festering sore of the Traitorgate trials. Libby has already been indited and there are increasing worries for Republicans that Rove will be too. For many Republicans Rove is seen as Cheney's mouthpiece in the Whitehouse.

The traitorous outing of the NOC agent in charge of the US anti WMD desk at the CIA has exorcised all right thinking Republicans.

The Question remains for Rove though:

When the President's office said Rove had told the President he did not discuss the matter with the press; was the President Lied to by Rove (A Felony) or did the Bush know about the leak and not do any thing about it and then lie to the people?

Regards Walker

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

think about it what you want, with that Picture I tell my opinion about Bush and the way he acts

I

hmmm, I just thought about your intention when you posted this image here... was it just meant to offend? Whatever your motivation was it certainly isnt fair to the americans here to show a picture of their president having a knife-like object in his head! You definetly ruined your right to claim objectivity and I can tell you that you wont get many responses from them anymore. So your picture is not just uncreative but it is also naive and stupid. Comments like yours make slowly close the doors for objective discussions between europeans and americans. Whatever your goal in this discussion may be, this is not the way to achieve it!

[walker 0]

Hi all

Dodgy Dick Cheney's Oil Baron Buddies lied to congress when they said they did not participate in clandestine meetings with Dodgy Dick Cheney about oil in 2001.

Quote[/b] ]Document Says Oil Chiefs Met With Cheney Task Force

By Dana Milbank and Justin Blum

Washington Post Staff Writers

Wednesday, November 16, 2005; Page A01

A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress.

The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.

In a joint hearing last week of the Senate Energy and Commerce committees, the chief executives of Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp. and ConocoPhillips said their firms did not participate in the 2001 task force. The president of Shell Oil said his company did not participate "to my knowledge," and the chief of BP America Inc. said he did not know.

Chevron was not named in the White House document, but the Government Accountability Office has found that Chevron was one of several companies that "gave detailed energy policy recommendations" to the task force. In addition, Cheney had a separate meeting with John Browne, BP's chief executive, according to a person familiar with the task force's work; that meeting is not noted in the document.

The task force's activities attracted complaints from environmentalists, who said they were shut out of the task force discussions while corporate interests were present. The meetings were held in secret and the White House refused to release a list of participants. The task force was made up primarily of Cabinet-level officials. Judicial Watch and the Sierra Club unsuccessfully sued to obtain the records...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....42.html

Oil companies in the US have been successfully ripping off the consumer in US making massive profits in the last few years on hyped up oil prices. Dodgy Dick Cheney has also been profiting off the US tax payer with Haliburton the company he helped run into bankruptcy getting the worlds largest social security cheque of 6 billion dollars in Iraq and a similar no bids deal at the expense of the people made homeless in the wake of Katrina.

For many in the US Republican party Dodgy Dick Cheney is seen as a stain on the party. His office is under investigation by the special prosecutor in the traitorgate trial. His still existing shares in a company he has given billions to as well as the new proof of clandestine deals with oil are seen by many as corrupt and dirty.

The fact that those same oil company barron's he had these clandestine meetings with have ripped off US tax payers at the pump with fake oil crisis after fake oil crisis inevitably leads one to ask:- "What were these oil barron's and Dodgy Dick Cheney planning in those clandestine meetings, back in 2001 before the fake oil crisis started?"

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

The traitorous outing of the NOC agent in charge of the US anti WMD desk at the CIA has exorcised all right thinking Republicans.

Yada yada.

Quote[/b] ](Bob) Woodward is now assistant managing editor of the Post. In October, he was dismissive of the Plame revelation, telling CNN's Larry King that the damage from her exposure was "quite minimal."

- <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051117/ap_on_go_ot/cia_leak_woodward;_ylt=AtMhaq.KYaFqcFQ8JM129gSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--" target="_blank">Woodward Claim on CIA Leak Disputes Charge

Quote[/b] ]Woodward, who is preparing a third book on the Bush administration, has called Fitzgerald “a junkyard-dog prosecutor†who turns over every rock looking for evidence. The night before Fitzgerald announced Libby’s indictment, Woodward said he did not see evidence of criminal intent or of a substantial crime behind the leak.

“When the story comes out, I’m quite confident we’re going to find out that it started kind of as gossip, as chatter,†he told CNN’s Larry King.

Woodward also said in interviews this summer and fall that the damage done by Plame’s name being revealed in the media was “quite minimal.â€

“When I think all of the facts come out in this case, it’s going to be laughable because the consequences are not that great,†he told National Public Radio this summer.

- </a>

Additional follow-up: Pincus: Woodward Warned Me Off.

Messy! Messy!

[ralphwiggum 6]

Nice job getting comments

Quote[/b] ]Woodward, who is preparing a third book on the Bush administration, has called Fitzgerald “a junkyard-dog prosecutor†who turns over every rock looking for evidence. The night before Fitzgerald announced Libby’s indictment, Woodward said he did not see evidence of criminal intent or of a substantial crime behind the leak.

“When the story comes out, I’m quite confident we’re going to find out that it started kind of as gossip, as chatter,†he told CNN’s Larry King.

Woodward also said in interviews this summer and fall that the damage done by Plame’s name being revealed in the media was “quite minimal.â€

“When I think all of the facts come out in this case, it’s going to be laughable because the consequences are not that great,†he told National Public Radio this summer.

Except that the cource is a conservative who is bent on blaming everything wrong on 'liberal'. Seems like it is a very fair news huh? A blog.

from you AP link

Quote[/b] ]Because his source in the leak case has refused to be identified publicly, Woodward said his hands are tied. "We can't tell the whole story. I would like to. It's one that will be told some day," he said.

Don't you just love those who hide behind the journalist while bashing them for being liberal? If that mysterious person would comeout that would be very nice.

Quote[/b] ]Robert W. Ray, a former independent counsel, said the Woodward disclosure won't help Libby if his defense is that he wasn't the only official leaking Plame's identity. "The point was: Did you make false statements and perjure yourself?" Ray said.

Libby was indicted for lying through his teeth.

But I guess it is more important to cover the problem with one sentence indicating that damage is minimal(if it is), and overlook the fact that Libby lied and there were more leaks.

[theavonlady 2]

Nice job getting comments

Quote[/b] ]Woodward, who is preparing a third book on the Bush administration, has called Fitzgerald “a junkyard-dog prosecutor†who turns over every rock looking for evidence. The night before Fitzgerald announced Libby’s indictment, Woodward said he did not see evidence of criminal intent or of a substantial crime behind the leak.

“When the story comes out, I’m quite confident we’re going to find out that it started kind of as gossip, as chatter,†he told CNN’s Larry King.

Woodward also said in interviews this summer and fall that the damage done by Plame’s name being revealed in the media was “quite minimal.â€

“When I think all of the facts come out in this case, it’s going to be laughable because the consequences are not that great,†he told National Public Radio this summer.

Except that the cource is a conservative who is bent on blaming everything wrong on 'liberal'. Seems like it is a very fair news huh? A blog.

Oh my gosh! A conservative! Oh my gosh! A blog! Oh my gosh!

I suppose Woodward is a conservative, too? Verbatim quotes aren't reliable except when quoted by leftists and anarchists? I see........

Why don't we say the same for numerous leftwing posts here? "The posters are leftists who are bent on blaming everything wrong on 'conservatives'. Seems like it is a very fair news huh? A forum."

Quote[/b] ]

from you AP link

Quote[/b] ]Because his source in the leak case has refused to be identified publicly, Woodward said his hands are tied. "We can't tell the whole story. I would like to. It's one that will be told some day," he said.

Don't you just love those who hide behind the journalist while bashing them for being liberal? If that mysterious person would comeout that would be very nice.

Quote[/b] ]Robert W. Ray, a former independent counsel, said the Woodward disclosure won't help Libby if his defense is that he wasn't the only official leaking Plame's identity. "The point was: Did you make false statements and perjure yourself?" Ray said.

Libby was indicted for lying through his teeth.

But I guess it is more important to cover the problem with one sentence indicating that damage is minimal(if it is), and overlook the fact that Libby lied and there were more leaks.

Did you see me arguing here about Libby's lying? Nope! Double nope!

[walker 0]

Hi all

Woodward and the Traitors

So we have what appears to be either a third White house official involved in the conspiracy to traitorously out the NOC agent in charge of the US anti WMD desk; either that or the person who first outed the NOC agent in charge of the US anti WMD desk was Karl Rove

Like Judith Miller and Robert Novak, Woodward has been attempting to down play the traitorous outing NOC agent in charge of the US anti WMD desk. It now becomes clear his reason why. He was one of the Journalists being used for the purpose of outing the NOC agent in charge of the US anti WMD desk, and so has been building up a defense for himself.

Clearly it is now up to the special prosecutor to lock up Woodward until he tells the special prosecutor who is this other traitor in the White house.

Traitorgates damage to the CIA

I think it is time to point our some of the dire effects that the traitors actions have had on the CIA and why they are the actions of a traitor and why this should be called traitorgate.

Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame), was among the deepest cover agent's the CIA has

For the record, Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame), was among the deepest cover agent's the CIA has. She worked as a so called "nonofficial cover" agent, a select group of operatives who know that if they are caught, the U.S. government will disavow any connection with them. See the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonofficial_cover

Essentially for the TV brains out there Valerie Wilson (nee Plame) role in the CIA, is similar to Jennifer Garner's character"Sydney Bristow" in the Emmy nominated Alias series.

Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) life in jeopardy

Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) life and that of her family is now permanently in jeopardy from any one of the people who she ran a covert operation against; as now they will know who it was that ran an action against them and they will be looking for payback.

Millions of dollars in training lost

Millions of dollars are spent to train and support this select group of "nonofficial cover" agents. All those millions are now lost and irecoverable.

What other CIA operatives were affected?

There is then of course the question of how many other covert operatives and assets in the field have also been compromised as a result of the traitors act?

Cover company blown in the Novak article

The company Brewster Jennings & Associates that was used by the CIA as a cover for multiple operatives was compromised directly as a result of the leak by Novak and others in The White House. See the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Jennings_%26_Associates

All agents who worked for the Cover company identities are blown by the Novak article

All those agents who used that company as cover have now had their cover blown. There will be obvious ripple effects similar to Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) cover being blown for each of those agents as well.

All covert CIA contacts and assets of Valerie Wilson (nee Plame) cover blown

All of Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) contacts held in security files round the world are now at risk of arrest, imprisonment and torture. Ditto all the agents who worked at the cover company will have had any of their contacts assets or agents identities blown.

All Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame)CIA NOC agent contacts in the field cover blown

All of Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) NOC Agent contacts held in security files round the world are now at risk of arrest, imprisonment and torture. Ditto all the agents who worked at the cover company will have had any of their contact NOC agents identities blown.

All NOC agent who's cover was blown by the traitors action; life in jeopardy

Every single other NOC agent whos cover was blown in this affair has their life and that of their family is now permanently in jeopardy from any one of the people who they ran a covert operation against; as now they will know who it was that ran an action against them and they will be looking for payback.

CIA's ability to recruit foreign agents destroyed for the period of this administration

Further the CIA's ability to recruit foreign agents has been severely damaged because potential recruits fear coming in contact with Americans and do not trust this administration to protect their identity.

WMD inteligence blinded when we need it most

The key thing we have to remember about this is that the traitors have esentialy blinded the CIA to inteligence on WMD at a time when with Iran and North Korea and Al Qaida are a giant risk because the traitors have named the covert head of inteligence on WMD for nothing more than petty party political advantage.

Osama Bin Laden himself could not have asked for better recruits than these traitors in the White House and the NeoConmen press

For those of you who noticed a whole bunch of arrests in Pakistan and action across the middle east on Nuclear issues after the traitors blew Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame)cover. Those were clean up activities for an after cover blown operation; trying to capture the people discoverd as a result of Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) work, along with the other agents who's cover was blown as the evidence gathered was during her period as the covert head of WMD inteligence. For an Idea of what Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) work meant follow this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan

WMD terrorists and dealers escaped, valuable Intel lost

God alone knows how many WMD terrorists and dealers escaped and how much intel was lost as a result of the traitors blowing Valerie Wilson's (nee Plame) identity I imagine the shredders were working as hard in the nuclear terrrorists hideouts as they are in White House traitors lair.

And yet we still have these NeoConMen trying to excuse the actions of traitors.

Sadly Walker

[ralphwiggum 6]

Oh my gosh! A conservative! Oh my gosh! A blog! Oh my gosh!

I suppose Woodward is a conservative, too? Verbatim quotes aren't reliable except when quoted by leftists and anarchists? I see........

Why don't we say the same for numerous leftwing posts here? "The posters are leftists who are bent on blaming everything wrong on 'conservatives'. Seems like it is a very fair news huh? A forum."

wow. nice to see that CONservatives are now trusting 'liberal' press's words! It was conservatives who are complaining about about liberal influence, but now that there is some "direct" quotes that might save conservative's ass, they are clinging on to it.

Maybe I should start posting stuffs from far left websites. Seems like they are just as credible as your source. I never saw you criticizing conservatives. Look back at previous Iraq threads. Most of the 'liberals' were giving out better predictions of current status of Iraq than conservatives.

Also, how come I never see conservatives criticizing their own?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Libby was indicted for lying through his teeth.

But I guess it is more important to cover the problem with one sentence indicating that damage is minimal(if it is), and overlook the fact that Libby lied and there were more leaks.

Did you see me arguing here about Libby's lying? Nope! Double nope!

Classic response of turning away from guilt.

[walker 0]

Hi all

TBA are in extreme panic mode with Dodgy Dick Cheney already screaming hysterically about the fact that US Senators and Representative are delving into the possibly illegal skewing of intel presented to Congress, Parliament and the public by TBA and TBA2 with the possible intention of misleading Congress, Parliament and the people into war with Iraq.

***BREAKING NEWS***

The latest news is that the Special Prosecutor is to convene a new Grand Jury to present further and almost certainly more serious charges in the Traitorgate Trials.

Will it be Karl Rove or the unknown third traitor that Woodward alludes to?

Quote[/b] ]Fitzgerald to Convene New Grand Jury in Leak Case

Filings Suggest Additional Charges

By Carol D. Leonnig

Washington Post Staff Writer

Friday, November 18, 2005; 3:02 PM

The federal prosecutor investigating the leak of a CIA operative's identity says he plans to present information to a new grand jury, a sign that he is considering additional charges in his two-year-old probe.

Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald said in court filings that his investigation "will involve proceedings before a different grand jury than the grand jury which returned the indictment" against Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Fitzgerald obtained the indictment against Libby Oct. 28 on five counts of perjury, obstruction of justice and false statements and said at that time that his investigation was nearly complete. However, he told attorneys for Karl Rove, the White House deputy chief of staff, that Rove remains under investigation for possible false statements in the probe into whether administration officials revealed the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame in 2003.

Since then, a new wrinkle has been added to the case by the disclosure that an unidentified senior administration official told The Washington Post's Bob Woodward about the CIA operative a month before her name was published. Woodward revealed that he testified in a deposition Monday, answering Fitzgerald's questions about his conversation with the official in mid-June 2003...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....58.html

Follow link for full story!

Rumours are circulating of a conversation between George Bush Junior and Karl Rove who has recently been sent on an ethics course by the White House.

Other Republicans are already doing the best they can to distance themselves from TBA and something that looks like making Watergate look like a case of shop lifting a carton of milk.

Regards Walker

[walker 0]

Hi all

A rattled and tired looking George Bush Jnr was unable to find a quick right exit after a short interview from the press in his tour of China.

Quote[/b] ]Door thwarts quick exit for Bush

President George W Bush tried to make a quick exit from a news conference in Beijing on Sunday - only to find himself thwarted by locked doors.

The president strode away from reporters looking annoyed after one said he appeared "off his game".

President Bush tugged at both handles on the double doors before admitting: "I was trying to escape. Obviously, it didn't work."

Mr Bush flies to Mongolia on Monday to complete his East Asia tour...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4454738.stm

follow link for more and pictures!

It is generally assumed that the discussion he had with Karl Rove after the news that the Special Prosecutor is looking at fresh indictments in the traitorgate trials, and his falling approval ratings has left George Bush Jnr very depressed.

An increasingly hysterical sounding Dodgy Dick Cheney may also be adding to his worries. Dodgy Dick Cheney is not taking proposed investigations into the evidence that was presented to Congress, Parliament and the People by TBA and TBA2 well. This is on top of new investigations into where the money for rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq has gone. Investigations have led to several US contractors and US NGOs including US charity workers filmed demanding bribe money from Afghan builders. Halliburton has had its share of dodgy dealings brought to light. The firm which was formerly bankrupted after being run by Dodgy Dick Cheney was given the world largest Social Security Cheque of 6 billion Dollars by Dodgy Dick Cheney's office.

Quote[/b] ]A Rebuilding Plan Full of Cracks

After the routing of the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Bush administration launched a $73 million program to construct schools and clinics. But design flaws and other problems soon plagued the effort.

By Joe Stephens and David B. Ottaway

Washington Post Staff Writers

Sunday, November 20, 2005; Page A01

MADRASAH, Afghanistan On a humid morning, scores of women and wailing babies crowded into the dirt courtyard of a private home a day's journey north of Kabul. They squeezed into a sliver of shade against a mud wall, the only refuge from the intense sun on a summer day when the temperature reached 120 degrees. Across the courtyard, inside a canvas lean-to, a doctor vaccinated infants atop a dusty plastic cooler.

A veiled woman named Tela squatted in the sun, lifting her black robe to create a bit of shade for her 9-month-old daughter, Shoghla, dehydrated from severe diarrhea.

"I have been here one hour and still I am waiting," said Tela, who like many Afghans uses only one name. "It is very, very crowded. We don't have anywhere to sit."

Next door, a large U.S.-financed health clinic, a brand-new building of concrete and steel, sat empty and locked.

"They should finish that clinic and we should be there," she said. "There would be a lot of places to sit over there."

The clinic in Madrasah is not just a building. It is part of a remote battleground in the war on terror, an attempt to win hearts and minds in the nation that was once al Qaeda's stronghold.

In September 2002, nearly a year after an American-led coalition deposed the Taliban, the United States launched what would become an aggressive effort to build or refurbish as many as 1,000 schools and clinics by the end of 2004, documents show. However, design flaws and construction errors caused the initiative to fall far short.

By September 2004, congressional figures show that the effort's centerpiece -- a $73 million U.S. Agency for International Development program -- had produced only 100 finished projects, most of them refurbishments of existing buildings. As of the beginning of this month, only about 40 more had been finished and turned over to the Afghan government.

Internal documents and more than 100 interviews in Washington and Kabul revealed a chain of mistakes and misjudgments: The U.S. effort was poorly conceived in a rush to show results before the Afghan presidential election in late 2004. The drive to construct earthquake-resistant, American-quality buildings in rustic villages led to culture clashes, delays and what a USAID official called "extraordinary costs." Afghans complained that the initial design for roofs made them too heavy to build in rural areas without a crane, and the corrected design made them too light to bear Afghan snows. Local workmen unfamiliar with U.S. construction methods sometimes produced shoddy work.

At the outset, USAID and its primary contractor, New Jersey-based Louis Berger Group Inc., failed to provide adequate oversight, documents state. Federal audits show that USAID officials in Kabul were unable to "identify the location of many Kabul-directed projects in the field." Officials at contracting companies and nonprofit groups complain that they were directed to build at sites that turned out to be sheer mountain slopes, a dry riverbed and even a graveyard.

Employees of a Maryland-based nonprofit relief agency hired to monitor construction quality demanded a $50,000 payoff from Afghan builders -- a scene captured in a clandestine videotape obtained by The Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....48.html

Disgusted walker

[Jinef 2]

It's simply a farce....

I still am in disbelief that the US people voted him in again.

At least in the UK the labour party's record has been fairly decent apart from the massive fuckup of Iraq. They have done some positive stuff to the system.

However Bush's resume is just funny. This person really cannot be in control of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal can he?

.....

He is in control isn't he .....

Someone please assasinate this pelican.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Dodgy Dick Cheney's Job approval ratings have never been something to write home about but they are now seriously dragging down George Bush Jnr's ratings.

According to Gallup Cheney's Job Approval rests at 36%

http://poll.gallup.com/content/?ci=20044

Republicans in particular find him to be a big drag. Dodgy Dick Cheney has persistently underperformed George Bush Jnr's ratings by 12%

He has become more and more hysterical as the congress and senate move toward an investigating the intel that was presented to: Congress, Parliament and the people by TBA and TBA2.

We already know that intel that was presented to Colin Powell was so bad he refused to use it.

What is clearly needed is a Special Prosecutor to investigate the actions and set up of the Office of Special Plans and how it was involved picking intel to present to Congress and the People.

Kind Regards Walker

[walker 0]

Hi all

Rather worryingly I saw this today.

Quote[/b] ]EXCLUSIVE: BUSH PLOT TO BOMB HIS ARAB ALLY

Madness of war memo

By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines

PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a "Top Secret" No 10 memo reveals.

But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash.

A source said: "There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it." Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency.

The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation.

A source said last night: "The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news....ge.html

Follow link for the full story

This story is given extra credence by certain historical facts.

Quote[/b] ]...The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors.

In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two "smart" bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre...

Ibid

We have all noticed the number of other journalists who have died in the Iraq War and it has indeed surpassed any other war by a considerable factor with several UK journalists killed by American fire including the ITN journalist who discovered Halabja at the time members of TBA were being buddy buddy with Saddam Husein.

Some people are contending that the remark was a Joke

Like UK MP and former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle I think the text of this Downing Street Memo needs to be released in order to show it was a Joke as this is playing extremely badly in the Middle East.

A Very Worried Walker

[DracoPaladore 0]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1132701011257&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes

Quote[/b] ]U.S. blinks on softwood

Nov. 23, 2005. 04:36 AM

SUSAN DELACOURT

IN OTTAWA

Canada has gained an important "step forward" from the U.S. in the softwood-lumber dispute, says Prime Minister Paul Martin, but not the complete victory his government is seeking.

Martin spoke to the Toronto Star last night shortly after the U.S. Commerce Department announced it would comply ? theoretically ? with a pro-Canada panel ruling from the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Though the U.S. accepted it should cut the punishing duties on Canadian softwood lumber imports, as the NAFTA panel ruled, it also said it would continue to collect tariffs during a public-comment period that could last as long as 45 days and isn't prepared to return the $5 billion collected so far.

"It's a step forward, but it's clearly a long way from being satisfactory and we're going to continue taking a very tough stand," Martin said. "We're in the right on this and we're going to win out."

The U.S. decision comes just as Martin's government is perched at the edge of collapse and the country at the brink of an election that will probably be unleashed early next week.

On Aug. 10, a panel considering the North American Free Trade Agreement ruled $5 billion in duties levied on softwood lumber sent to the U.S. should be returned to Canada. So far, the U.S. has been ordered to reduce tariffs five times.

The softwood dispute was simmering into a boiling campaign issue here in Canada, with the opposition parties spending all day in the Commons yesterday hammering Martin's government for failing to gain any ground with the U.S. or provide relief to the softwood-lumber industry at home.

It was becoming an especially acute issue in British Columbia, which is shaping up to be make-or-break territory for Liberals, New Democrats and Conservatives in the next campaign.

But then came some unexpected, if limited, relief for Martin yesterday, only days after he publicly took U.S. President George W. Bush to task on softwood during a leaders' summit in South Korea.

In a statement, U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said: "We have serious concerns about the panel's decision. However, consistent with our NAFTA obligations, we have complied with the panel's instructions. ... We will continue to enforce our trade laws to ensure that U.S. industry receives relief from unfair imports and we are reviewing all options to do so. We believe that only a durable, negotiated resolution will resolve this dispute permanently."

Still, while Martin welcomed how the U.S. was now acknowledging NAFTA's authority ? as Canada has been demanding with increasing force and even some veiled threats ? the Commerce Department decision will have no immediate practical impact.

And nothing else uttered in Washington yesterday appeared to indicate any caving-in to Canada's demand for an end to the duties.

Yet it may rub a lot of the harsh edges off the opposition's denunciations of the Liberals, since all three federal party leaders had to acknowledge last night that the markers had moved in Canada's ? and Martin's ? favour.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper welcomed the announcement.

"It's positive news," he said. "It's a funnily worded decision, but it shows some willingness to move. It doesn't obviously deal with the question of the existing duties, and there is a big pool. That is the big issue that has to be resolved. But it gives me some optimism that a future government will be in a good position to move this to resolution."

"This is a small victory for the workers and the communities and everybody that has been calling for action," said NDP Leader Jack Layton, who ascribed little credit to Martin for the Americans' decision.

Layton added that despite this decision, he intends to keep the trade issues surrounding softwood lumber front and centre during the upcoming campaign.

Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe said it was positive news.

"I just hope they don't appeal, and that their first reaction will remain the final one," he told the Star. "I hope so."

Every year, Canada ships $6 billion of softwood lumber to the United States and Canadian exporters have been subject to tariffs since 2002 with the Bush administration claiming Canadians received unfair subsidies.

Yesterday, the U.S. Commerce Department announced it would reduce countervailing duties from 16 per cent to 0.8 per cent. However, John Sullivan, the department's general counsel, said the 16 per cent duty would continue for now and none of the money collected so far will be returned.

Meredith Williams, a Commerce Department spokeswoman, said Washington will now go before a review panel that can hear comment over the next 25 to 45 days, then the panel will either reaffirm the decision or issue new instructions.

During that time, the punitive tariffs will continue to be levied. "Nothing has been resolved," she said. "I'm not going to characterize this as a win or a loss for anyone."

Sullivan also signalled Washington was prepared to appeal any ruling it doesn't like after the consultation period.

"We start off with a premise that Canada subsidizes lumber," he said.

The U.S. lumber industry said it was "deeply disappointed" by the Commerce Department decision, saying the lifting of duties would threaten the domestic industry and its workers.

Steve Swanson, chairman of the Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports, said yesterday's decision does not change the fundamental fact that Canada's lumber industry receives billions of dollars in annual subsidies derived from Canadian taxpayer-owned forest resources.

The coalition also accused Ottawa of flouting U.S. trade law by announcing it will provide an aid package to its lumber industry worth more than $1 billion.

Martin took the unusual step of haranguing Bush about softwood in front of 19 other leaders of Asian-Pacific countries at a summit last week in South Korea.

He essentially told the leaders of the Pacific Rim countries that Washington's commitments to free trade mean nothing if the U.S. treats other countries the way it has treated Canada in the lumber dispute.

Reaction among industry experts leaned toward the cautious, and even provoked some mild cynicism.

Jamie Lim, president and CEO of Ontario Forest Industries Association, said it was "nice to see the U.S. Department of Commerce complying, but if they were in a law-abiding state of mind, why wouldn't they comply with all of NAFTA's Aug. 10th ruling (and require) the return of all of the illegal duties collected so far?"

with files from Graham Fraser, Andrew Mills, Sean Gordon and CANADIAN PRESS

It seems like a good thing to me. But I'm not entirely sure what the whole issue is about since about 2002 I couldn't care less about my universe.

Thoughts?

[Placebo 29]

Merged into here, obviously......

[DracoPaladore 0]

Sorry, forgot that we even had a politics thread

[walker 0]

Hi All

I think Americans have to take note of the following it is an Op Ed piece from the Washington Post by an American.

I think it should be taken as a final warning before the world classifies the US alongside the likes of Milosevic.

Quote[/b] ]Replant the American Dream

By David Ignatius

Friday, November 25, 2005; Page A37

When I lived abroad, Thanksgiving was always my favorite holiday. It was a chance to scrounge up a turkey, gather foreign and American friends, and celebrate what America represented to the world. I liked to give a sentimental toast when the turkey arrived at the table, and more than once I had my foreign guests in tears. They loved the American dream as much as I did.

I don't think Americans realize how much we have tarnished those ideals in the eyes of the rest of the world these past few years. The public opinion polls tell us that America isn't just disliked or feared overseas -- it is reviled. We are seen as hypocrites who boast of our democratic values but who behave lawlessly and with contempt for others. I hate this America-bashing, but when I try to defend the United States and its values in my travels abroad, I find foreigners increasingly are dismissive. How do you deny the reality of Abu Ghraib, they ask, when the vice president of the United States is actively lobbying against rules that would ban torture?

Of all the reversals the United States has suffered in recent years, this may be the worst. We are slowly shredding the fabric that defines what it means to be an American.

Not so long ago our country really was seen as different. Foreigners queued up outside any institution that called itself an "American university," hoping for a chance at their piece of the dream. My own ancestors were educated at such a college, and their children's and grandchildren's success in the new land was part of a global chain of American affirmation and renewal...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....74.html

On a personal note as one who was born and bred in the UK I feel that the call that America had on the UK as its key Alie in WWII has been paid by the political capital we have waisted in the Iraq war and the damage to our economy and political ethical standing both internally and in the world. Essentially it has forever tarred the name of Tony Blair who but for this would have gone down as one of the Uk's greatest Priministers. Now as Tony Blair faces his final days in power he will forever be known as the man who dragged us into Iraq.

I suggest all, particularly Americans read the full article by following the above link and reflect upon it. I suggest that Americans consider the consequences for them and their economic, political and ethical standing in the world; then take the political and or legal actions necessary to remove from power those who brought America to this sorry state.

Sadly Walker

[jtec 0]

It's simply a farce....

I still am in disbelief that the US people voted him in again.

At least in the UK the labour party's record has been fairly decent apart from the massive fuckup of Iraq. They have done some positive stuff to the system.

However Bush's resume is just funny. This person really cannot be in control of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal can he?

.....  

He is in control isn't he .....

Someone please assasinate this pelican.

My views exactly and im quite sure that 99.9 percent of the world feel the same.  I have spoke to many educated Americans on my travels around the world and their opinion was utter disbelieve and blamed it on either the uneducated or the fanatical christian side of America.  Its quite a scarey thing to put everything in perpective now and realise that anything can happen with Bush waging war on anyone that does something that he doesnt like (even tho he is probs doing it himself)

 Politics are a sham in every country now and maybe its time we as a society find another system that actually works. Maybe a system that actually listens to the people, as we are the ones that work hard (giving our time, blood, sweat and  life) and pay into the state for it to work for us.  

Peace out

Jtec (hippy )

[Bordoy 0]

It's simply a farce....

I still am in disbelief that the US people voted him in again.

At least in the UK the labour party's record has been fairly decent apart from the massive fuckup of Iraq. They have done some positive stuff to the system.

However Bush's resume is just funny. This person really cannot be in control of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal can he?

.....  

He is in control isn't he .....

Someone please assasinate this pelican.

My views exactly and im quite sure that 99.9 percent of the world feel the same.  I have spoke to many educated Americans on my travels around the world and their opinion was utter disbelieve and blamed it on either the uneducated or the fanatical christian side of America.  Its quite a scarey thing to put everything in perpective now and realise that anything can happen with Bush waging war on anyone that does something that he doesnt like (even tho he is probs doing it himself)

 Politics are a sham in every country now and maybe its time we as a society find another system that actually works. Maybe a system that actually listens to the people, as we are the ones that work hard (giving our time, blood, sweat and  life) and pay into the state for it to work for us.  

Peace out

Jtec (hippy )

Absolute Monarchy

[harley 3 1185 0]

Anyone who thinks that Labour has a good 8 year record in the United Kingdom should be shot. I mean put against a wall, given a blindfold, and riddled with bullets.

It can be argued that democracy is taking a beating everywhere, even in the United States. Whereby in the past the majority in power used to swing wildly from Democrat to Republican, now both sides have polarised so much that there is no such thing as a clear majority any more; just a slender margin, which can only lead to friction.