USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[sgtsev3n 12]

Bush about Iraq

Obama about Syria

Sound famiLIAR ?

[mistyronin 1181]

Bush about Iraq

Obama about Syria

Sound famiLIAR ?

Both countries, Iraq and Syria, had Chemical Weapons and used them against civilians, that's a proven fact.

BTW in Syria was Russia precisely who negotiate their removal. Or Putin also lies?

That doesn't change the fact that before the Iraq invasion, the country move and sold them abroad, and that Saddam Hussein was only dangerous to his own people.

The main reason of the invasion was not to steal any of its resources nor control it, but to remove a dictator that was not liked by the other countries of the region, Arabia Saudi, Jordan, etc... ( which are US allies )

In fact, nowadays Iraq has friendly agreements with Russia and is half invaded by the ISI... So quite far away from benefiting the US...

( Al Jazeera ) Iraq PM calls emergency after Mosul seized

[sgtsev3n 12]

Both countries, Iraq and Syria, had Chemical Weapons and used them against civilians, that's a proven fact.

BTW in Syria was Russia precisely who negotiate their removal. Or Putin also lies?

That doesn't change the fact that before the Iraq invasion, the country move and sold them abroad, and that Saddam Hussein was only dangerous to his own people.

The main reason of the invasion was not to steal any of its resources nor control it, but to remove a dictator that was not liked by the other countries of the region, Arabia Saudi, Jordan, etc... ( which are US allies )

In fact, nowadays Iraq has friendly agreements with Russia and is half invaded by the ISI... So quite far away from benefiting the US...

( Al Jazeera ) Iraq PM calls emergency after Mosul seized

iraq and syria had chemical weapons, true ! now, from where did iraq got his chemical weapons? right! from the United States! the united states supported iraq during iran-iraq war (also they supported iran too, which is called iran-contra affair)

iraq abadoned his WMD programm in 1991, yet the US Government lied to the world in 2003 claiming he has WMD.

now to syria: syria had chemical weapons, yes. did they ever used it against theyr own citizens or against another country? NO! there are absolutly no proof.

every evidence is speaking against the U.S Government and media lies that want to tell us the syrian government used chemical weapons.

2 U.S experts spoke out that the syrian government did not used chemical weapons the last time.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/is-u-s-launching-a-war-in-syria-to-distract-from-spying-and-other-scandals.html

and all the chemical weapons attack that happen before the ghouta chemical attack was also proven that "rebels" were behind it.

even the U.N and media had to agree that western backed al-qaeda rebels did those chemical weapon attack.

after the iraq lies, how can you still believe that BS? HOW ?! open your eyes, turn off TV. seems like the WMD bullshit still works over and over again at some people.

[pooroldspike 129]

Saddam's WMD's could easily have been a few flasks of deadly plague germs for pouring into US water reservoirs, he probably kept them hidden under his bed but the weapon inspectors forgot to look there.

"Does America realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?"

Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994

So he had to go, and the world's a slightly safer placer now..:)

[mistyronin 1181]

after the iraq lies, how can you still believe that BS? HOW ?! open your eyes, turn off TV. seems like the WMD bullshit still works over and over again at some people.

Now calm down, count to 10. And re-read my last message.

[negah 26]

Why wont anyone invade USA or Russia, they have WMDs too and are threatening other countries.

Oh wait, they actually have WMDs.

[sgtsev3n 12]

Why wont anyone invade USA or Russia, they have WMDs too and are threatening other countries.

Oh wait, they actually have WMDs.

when it comes to WMD, USA and RUSSIA are the worstest in it.

those countries (governments) are the real danger. not iraq, not al-qaeda.

and they are not only threatening other countries, they are threatening the whole Universe with theyr political & power games and theyr amount of atomic, biologic and chemical weapons.

[vilas 477]

oo once again you defend al-Queda , you said that you are from Kazakhstan (which is 70% Muslim), than why you come to live in Germany if west is so bad and ans you said in Ukraine topic that west media are 100% lies 24/7 ? why you do not go back to your Kazakhstan if you see western civilisation as such bad and you deny role of al-Queda in terrorist attacks or did you come to Europe to make Jihad (btw how old are you) ? i think many people can be offended by your words denying al-Queda role in human suffering, especially that here are some people who fought with al-Queda because of that human suffering caused by Jihad, cause i see your big activity in flaming USA on this forum appeared after Ukrainian topic, some addonmakers making mods for Arma are US soldiers fighting with Al-Queda

USA is not pure evil, it is maybe even only country, which constitution approve raising against government if goverment doesn't represent people's will,

i wish more countries had constitution like USA has, cause in most countries of the world it is citizen who serve state, not state that serve citizen,

the real evil of this globe are:

- Islamists (because of religion they force on others which is more and more visible in western EU suburbs)

- banksters and international corporations (because of endless greed and lack of any conscience they harm all globe and cause suffering, poverty, wars especially in Africa, slavery-like jobs in Asia, Eastern-Central Europe, South Africa, environment destruction, banks, mining corporations, oil corporations) , corporations are not equal US gov (YET) although corporations have serious influence in US gov (and some western EU govs and my gov. )

- Russian nationalism (local threat to some Asian and European countries which in past were under Russian/Soviet occupation and suffered from Russian/Soviet crimes)

- drug cartels (South Africa)

[negah 26]

It may sound pretty utopian and quite offtopic too, but I wonder when will our governments stop comparing who has the biggest war club and stop bashing at each other's heads and start investing their money into something useful.

Just imagine what would happen if there wouldn't be militaries, where you can waste so much money. Hell I might be planning my vacation in Mars City this year.

Maybe they would solve the problems with the lack of food in some african countries. Instead they'd rather kill each other, no people, no lack of food --> problem solved.

[vilas 477]

It may sound pretty utopian and quite offtopic too, but I wonder when will our governments stop comparing who has the biggest war club and stop bashing at each other's heads and start investing their money into something useful.

Just imagine what would happen if there wouldn't be militaries, where you can waste so much money. Hell I might be planning my vacation in Mars City this year.

Maybe they would solve the problems with the lack of food in some african countries. Instead they'd rather kill each other, no people, no lack of food --> problem solved.

yes, but it is utopia, why ?

- there are religions, and religious freaks want to force others,

- there are nationalists, imperialists, those who want to make profit on other nation,

- there are greed entities (companies, organizations, people) who want to make more profits and kill someone or sell killing products (weapons, vehicles),

- drugs cartels who want to take rule as governments have,

- some greed guys who want to be politicians and they want to tax others and not work themselves so they need slaves to work for them,

utopia,

if we reisign from armies (because we are naive in Europe) than :

- other civilisation invades us to force us to believe in their god,

- other country invade us to set taxes on us,

etc.

you cannot make nice world if psychopats are allowed to live and all cycos and greed guys of this globe are not eliminated

Edited June 11, 2014 by vilas

[sgtsev3n 12]

oo once again you defend al-Queda , you said that you are from Kazakhstan (which is 70% Muslim), than why you come to live in Germany if west is so bad and ans you said in Ukraine topic that west media are 100% lies 24/7 ? why you do not go back to your Kazakhstan if you see western civilisation as such bad and you deny role of al-Queda in terrorist attacks or did you come to Europe to make Jihad (btw how old are you) ? i think many people can be offended by your words denying al-Queda role in human suffering, especially that here are some people who fought with al-Queda because of that human suffering caused by Jihad, cause i see your big activity in flaming USA on this forum appeared after Ukrainian topic, some addonmakers making mods for Arma are US soldiers fighting with Al-Queda

USA is not pure evil, it is maybe even only country, which constitution approve raising against government if goverment doesn't represent people's will,

i wish more countries had constitution like USA has, cause in most countries of the world it is citizen who serve state, not state that serve citizen,

the real evil of this globe are:

- Islamists (because of religion they force on others which is more and more visible in western EU suburbs)

- banksters and international corporations (because of endless greed and lack of any conscience they harm all globe and cause suffering, poverty, wars especially in Africa, slavery-like jobs in Asia, Eastern-Central Europe, South Africa, environment destruction, banks, mining corporations, oil corporations) , corporations are not equal US gov (YET) although corporations have serious influence in US gov (and some western EU govs and my gov. )

- Russian nationalism (local threat to some Asian and European countries which in past were under Russian/Soviet occupation and suffered from Russian/Soviet crimes)

- drug cartels (South Africa)

sorry but i have a hard laugh

[ReZiNsky 10]

The Invasion of Baghdad, an instance where American bombers and Artillery barraged a city full of civilian women and children with the population comparable to New York; a precursor to the 'War on Terror', it was called the 'Shock and Awe' campaign promising to "strike fear into the hearts of our enemies"......wait a second WE the U.S bombed a city to promote Shock and Awe? Hell, that sounds like....

Ter·ror·ism

noun \ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\

: the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal

Sounds like a War OF Terrorism to me, It would appear that the the United States Military and Federal Government are guilty of the very Terrorism they are stated to be combating. With Baghdad in mind it can be strongly argued that the War on Terrorism and various domestic programs birthed from said war (NDAA, Posse Comitatus eradication etc.) have been done on a false and illegal premise and therefore are an Illegal and unjust conflict and unjust executive laws. We the People of the United States can no longer afford to be so ignorant as to blindly follow our Government's Ideologies when we are more so ignorant of the World's Ideologies that our government treads upon. Just because someone is Muslim does not mean they are Jihad, basic human rights trump any religious or political predisposition especially our own . We have no right to compel democracy on others and we have no business in the Middle East or Syria, no Honest business that is.

-A Concerned Human

[negah 26]

Germany has arrested a double agent working for the US. So much for "allies".

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/04/germany-arrests-alleged-double-agent-accused-of-spying-on-berlins-nsa-inquiry-for-the-u-s/

http://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/specials/id_70117718/-bnd-mann-arbeitet-fuer-nsa-.html

The arrested man was allegedly a double agent for the U.S. for two years. He met U.S. agents at least three times in Austria between 2012 and 2014 and gave them hundreds of secret documents for which he was paid €25,000 (US$34,000), the Bild newspaper reported, citing security officials it didn’t identify. The documents were seized on a thumb drive containing 218 stolen files and a laptop at the suspect’s home, Bild said.

[negah 26]

Second US spy caught in Germany.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/09/us-germany-usa-spy-idUSKBN0FE16N20140709

-----------------------------------------

The german Commerzbank has to pay a fee of up to 800 Millions US Dollar to the USA because they have ignored US sanctions against such countries as Iran.

Earlier the french bank BNP Paribas had to pay a fee of almost 9 Billions US Dollar for the same reason.

http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Wirtschaft/d/5048794/commerzbank-muss-bis-zu-800-millionen-dollar-zahlen.html

As the one guy has written in the comments section: If I boycott someone, and others make deals with him, can I sue them and demand 100 euros from them now?

USA seems to become more desperate about their economy each day, so that they are now just taking the money from their "partners". What comes next?

Edited July 10, 2014 by negah

[negah 26]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28243933

The German government has ordered the expulsion of a CIA official in Berlin in response to two cases of alleged spying by the US.

"The representative of the US intelligence services at the embassy of the United States of America has been told to leave Germany," government spokesman Steffen Seibert said.

[Tonci87 163]

About damn time

[nettrucker 142]

First time I actually respect her. She showed balls in this case. The rest of Europe should take that as an example.

[mistyronin 1181]

Quite harsh statements from the POTUS:

( Al Jazeera ) Obama: "Russia doesn't make anything"

Barack Obama, the US president, has dismissed Russia as a nation that "doesn't make anything" in an interview with the Economist magazine.

Obama downplayed Moscow's role in the world, saying that Vladimir Putin, Russia's president, was a leader causing short-term trouble for political gain that would hurt Russia in the long term.

"I do think it's important to keep perspective. Russia doesn't make anything," Obama said. "Immigrants aren't rushing to Moscow in search of opportunity. The life expectancy of the Russian male is around 60 years old. The population is shrinking."

Russia is the world's third-largest oil producer and second-largest natural gas producer. Europe relies heavily on Russian energy exports, complicating the West's response to the Ukraine crisis.

Speaking of what he called Russia's "regional challenges," Obama said: "We have to make sure that they don't escalate where suddenly nuclear weapons are back in the discussion of foreign policy."

Obama told Putin last week that he believes Russia violated the 1988 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty designed to eliminate ground-launched cruise missiles.

[negah 26]

Oh it seems Obama has decided its time to look stupid again. Sometimes I think someone in his office writes his speeches deliberately to undermine his reputation.

Obama downplayed Moscow's role in the world, saying that Vladimir Putin, Russia's president, was a leader causing short-term trouble for political gain that would hurt Russia in the long term.

Yeah and the US arent causing troubles anywhere: countless destroyed countries with no peace in sight, concentration camps in foreign contries (just like the nazis did), execution of civilians around the world with no trial.

Immigrants aren't rushing to Moscow in search of opportunity.

This artcile is saying quite the contrary:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/society/8555676/Moscow-17-million-people.html

The life expectancy of the Russian male is around 60 years old. The population is shrinking.

The population is shrinking everywhere in Europe, most notably in central european countries. And if youre 60 youre actually more of a nuisance for the state since they have to pay you more and more social payments, which are there in Russia unlike in the USA, and you dont work anymore.

Russia doesn't make anything

Russia is the world's third-largest oil producer and second-largest natural gas producer.

Ok oil and gas arent made by Russia, but they are sold by Russia and thats what important after all. Besides Russia is one of the biggest weapons manufacturors around the world. Space technology, cars (although only for russian market since theyre bad).

http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/2350

Most on this list are natural resources, but machinery and fertilizers? Do they dig them too somewhere?

Also interesting are this lists:

http://www.worldstopexports.com/fastest-growing-russian-export-products/2358

http://www.worldstopexports.com/highest-value-russian-export-products/2348

After the collapse of the USSR and its economy many factories were closed, but over time its getting back again.

And we have to remember the growing amount of foreign investors in Russia wich also boost its economy, and that of the investors countries of origin, thats why Europe is so reluctant with sanctioning Russia, USA would however love to see both economies ruined.

Obama told Putin last week that he believes Russia violated the 1988 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty designed to eliminate ground-launched cruise missiles.

Oh how many treaties and international laws have US violated in their recent history, but its ok, US can do everything.

"We have to make sure that they don't escalate where suddenly nuclear weapons are back in the discussion of foreign policy."

Sounds like Cold War propaganda: "Evil russkies want to nuke our wallmart."

______________________________________________

EDIT:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/6/russia-china-leading-efforts-to-bypass-us-as-imf-r/?page=all

Most of the IMF’s 188 member nations have approved the reforms, which originally were negotiated in 2010, and have waited patiently for Washington to act before proceeding with talks on a second round of voting changes to further increase the power of rapidly developing countries.

But opposition from House and Senate Republicans have blocked efforts by the White House and Senate Democrats this year to attach the IMF reform package to other legislation, trying the patience of major developing nations such as China, which for years has been contributing funds to the IMF beyond what is formally required in hopes of gaining greater influence on its decisions.

Mr. Truman blames the Obama administration for not pushing for the IMF reforms hard enough, as well as the “acid political climate†in Washington that has made Republicans reluctant to give Mr. Obama any victory.

http://www.globalsocialjustice.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315:afp&catid=5:analysis&Itemid=6

Currently China, the second-largest economy, holds only 3.8 percent of the voting power at the Washington-based financial institution, not much more than Italy's 3.1 percent weight.

Under the reform, China's voice would nearly double, to 6.0 percent.

Are they (Congress) concerned about giving other countries more voting power in IMF decisions or do they really just want to say NO whenever Obama says YES and vice versa?

Edited August 4, 2014 by negah

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

The US is lost,bama whiped his ass with the constitution and told them to go eat it and F them, and if you want you can cross the mexico border and enter with no problems.

This is from Canada but it wont show anywhere so il show it here-http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN0G51IW20140805, ofcourcse here their worried about the company's stock going down(geez)btw this site is messed up!

-http://rt.com/news/178320-canada-mine-tailings-breach/

-http://www.theprovince.com/Massive+tailings+pond+spill+north+Quesnel+Lake+said+toxic+water+effect+hundreds/10088935/story.html

Sry site wont accept any links or anything,just copy the link!

[mistyronin 1181]

I'd like to share a little opinion from the US Marines Corps' Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, who BTW was awarded twice with the Medal of Honor ( the maximum award in the US ) and member of an Antinazi association:

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.

Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Although he is talking about US politics before WW2, I think it's nonetheless quite true nowadays.

[Bee8190 10]

Oh it seems Obama has decided its time to look stupid again. Sometimes I think someone in his office writes his speeches deliberately to undermine his reputation.

Ok oil and gas arent made by Russia, but they are sold by Russia and thats what important after all. Besides Russia is one of the biggest weapons manufacturors around the world. Space technology, cars (although only for russian market since theyre bad).

http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/2350

Most on this list are natural resources, but machinery and fertilizers? Do they dig them too somewhere?

After the collapse of the USSR and its economy many factories were closed, but over time its getting back again.

And we have to remember the growing amount of foreign investors in Russia wich also boost its economy, and that of the investors countries of origin, thats why Europe is so reluctant with sanctioning Russia, USA would however love to see both economies ruined.

I think the US is mad about Russia exporting their Sukhoi fighters and bombers to middle eastern countries like Iran among others

[negah 26]

Meanwhile in the USA:

http://mashable.com/2014/08/13/ferguson-police-protests-vs-iraq/

Is the police going to meet demonstrants with assault rifles?

I understand the snipers, in case someone starts shooting, but the regular ground police should have riot shields, tear gas and water guns instead of assault rifles.

And police should actually look like police and not army with "police" written on it.

http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Pages/Vehicles.aspx

MRAPs for the police. Either they want to be prepared for a civil war or (more likely) just another way for the manufacturer to get rich on the costs of the taxpayers (since we have no war atm, we must arm the police, both would be even better).

Edited August 14, 2014 by negah

[mistyronin 1181]

Is the police going to meet demonstrants with assault rifles?

I understand the snipers, in case someone starts shooting, but the regular ground police should have riot shields, tear gas and water guns instead of assault rifles.

And police should actually look like police and not army with "police" written on it.

There was a good documentary about the proliferation of SWAT teams around the US. Mainly the point was that someone is getting rich selling all that equipment and training them ( a lot of companies are made by ex Iraq/Afghanistan veterans ), when obviously it's not need and it's even counterproductive.

In that case it's really weird to have SWAT members with military weapons in the middle of riots. I know that some Police Depts are afraid of the huge amount of weapons per citizen, but countries like Canada have more weapons per citizen and there's no need of SWAT teams working to stop riots.

I don't even see much logic to have snipers.

Just check the riots in France, Sweden or UK when a police officer killed an immigrant. Were there Police Special Ops branding assault rifles?

- - -

I can understand that a SWAT team may need a MRAP if there is some crazy guy with a lots of explosives or weapons ( like in Leganes )

Here is one also interesting video, about the perils of creating a huge paramilitary police force:

Edited August 14, 2014 by MistyRonin

[negah 26]

So basically the government allows SWAT to purchase whatever they wish, and they do it, which I can understand since you always want to have as much toys as possible and be prepared for anything. The driving power behind this militarization really seems to be the weapons lobby.

MRAPs also make sense for SWAT teams, I was thinking SWAT was rather using busses to transport large teams and apprehended suspects.

Im still amazed how the guys are using their ammunition. We were always jealous of the american soldiers in Grafenwöhr since they were raining hell down the shooting range while we had to count every shot and every cartridge (10 rounds given - 10 rounds taken).