USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[joogrr 10]

Conservatives that defend Sarah Palin's intelligence only weaken their position as she's clearly a pop-cult conservative with little understanding of whats she's reading off her scripts.

Now take a Ron Paul, I may not gree with everything he says, but he makes solid points backed with actual data and has a firm grasp over what he speaks.

Palin-heads are only ideologues making true on Reagans statement "No Republican shall speak ill of another Republican". I find that statement utterly un-american as anyone should speak bad of any other's bad ideas regardless of party for the good of the country.

Moderates are losing ground...

Oh snap another thread.. I simply can't ignore.. must.. fight.. urge..

Ahh.. to hell with it

Regarding Ron Paul. He is the only one in congress with a clue these days. Not that congress is making much difference anymore, as the president apparently can take orders from the UN without even addressing congress. The constitution is being totally trashed :j: Ron Paul have been trying to open up some eyes for a very long time and it's only just recently that ppl start to listen. If you guys are interested about the real American power structure then you should watch this, still very relevant interview from 1988, part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEgBWO54dA

It's a good start. Enjoy.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Conservatives that defend Sarah Palin's intelligence only weaken their position as she's clearly a pop-cult conservative with little understanding of whats she's reading off her scripts.

Now take a Ron Paul, I may not gree with everything he says, but he makes solid points backed with actual data and has a firm grasp over what he speaks.

Palin-heads are only ideologues making true on Reagans statement "No Republican shall speak ill of another Republican". I find that statement utterly un-american as anyone should speak bad of any other's bad ideas regardless of party for the good of the country.

Moderates are losing ground...

Thank God I'm not a Conservative. I'm an Austro-Libertarian.

[Scrub 0]

With our debt so far under water, and the Liberals over here looking for 'Bi-Partisanship' only so they can later say Conservatives agreed with it then, so we should be able to do more now (read: have an enabling patsy), it is difficult to compromise. It's like someone who is 20 feet underwater and drowning saying, 'I will come up 10 feet, but you have meet me half way.' We have to get the lies out of politics and hold them responsible for their actions. Obama and the Democratic held houses have played either a net-zero or active loss game. Nothing he has done has softened the blow from the housing sabotage or relieved the jobs issue, but has spent THE LARGEST amount of money, in the shortest time-- ever.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Scrub

[froggyluv 2136]

Yahoo Finance on Obama's plan:

The administration didn't present the plans to Republicans in advance. But since early this spring, the White House and Republicans have been negotiating about budget issues. And the administration feels like it knows which buttons to push. It has made a point of including ideas and proposals that Republicans - -including Republicans in leadership positions — have explicitly supported. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has spoken in favor of a payroll tax cut for employers, and has been a stickler for offsetting new spending with cuts elsewhere. The administration official referred to the proposed infrastructure bank as the Kerry-Hutchinson infrastructure bank, as in Democratic Senator John Kerry and Texas Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

According to administration officials, during the debt-ceiling and budget negotiations, Republican leadership conceded that the dominant faction of the House Republican caucus wasn't interested in measures that would make the president look good by improving the economy. And time and again over the last three years, moderate Republicans have walked away from measures they previously supported — on cap-and-trade, an individual mandate for health insurance, immigration reform — simply because President Obama was for them. The White House doesn't have any greater faith in its Republican interlocutors on the Hill than it did on the spring. But it recognizes that the President has to lay out what he's for and then fight for it.

Wow, just wow. Its what many suspected -that hardline rightwingers won't agree with Obama on anything -even if it was free season Nascar tickets, beer, and a permit to carry heavy machineguns. Looks like they have followed Rush Limbaugs's advice: make Obama fail at all costs, even if it be the country. UnAmerican.

Funny, I have a Tea Party lady as a client and we were razzing her over her hatred of Obama so I asked her could she at least give approval to issues that are primarily Republican ones IE. Payroll Tax Cut.

"No, it's still different".

Ok,ok. But surely you can give the man props for getting arch-enemy to Freedom and American life Bin Laden.

"He just got lucky" she said sheepishly as we all had a good laugh at her.

Forget partisan -support the US!

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Wow, just wow. Its what many suspected -that hardline rightwingers won't agree with Obama on anything -even if it was free season Nascar tickets, beer, and a permit to carry heavy machineguns. Looks like they have followed Rush Limbaugs's advice: make Obama fail at all costs, even if it be the country. UnAmerican.

Funny, I have a Tea Party lady as a client and we were razzing her over her hatred of Obama so I asked her could she at least give approval to issues that are primarily Republican ones IE. Payroll Tax Cut.

"No, it's still different".

Ok,ok. But surely you can give the man props for getting arch-enemy to Freedom and American life Bin Laden.

"He just got lucky" she said sheepishly as we all had a good laugh at her.

Forget partisan -support the US!

Liberal ideology is so 1960s.

[froggyluv 2136]

Liberal ideology is so 1960s.

Good one...?

Next time try making sense or perhaps add actual substance.

[Fox '09 14]

Liberal ideology is so 1960s.

are you secretly ann coulter?

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Good one...?

Next time try making sense or perhaps add actual substance.

I'm sorry, but your degree is in?

[froggyluv 2136]

I'm sorry, but your degree is in?

Ad Hominem's don't help your statements relevance.

are you secretly ann coulter?

Now Ann Coulter is case and point example of "Liberal Hating" reaching into the level of pathological disorder. Just recently watched "The Pat Tillman Story" - for those that don't know, Pat Tillman was a rugged star professional football player that dropped his multi-million dollar contract to join the Army Ranger's after the 9/11 attacks. Tillman was eventually killed by his own men in a friendly fire incident in Afghanistan and the army tried to cover it up and portray Tillman as the American model of heroism and sacrifice. In this light Ann Coulter stated this of Tillman:

"an American original--virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be"

Only problem was, Tillman, while in Iraq watching A-10's bomb a city decried "This war is so fucking illegal" and became a harsh critic. After his death it also came to light that Tillman was a big fan and had a planned meeting with famed Socialist Noam Chomsky to which Coulter declared:

"I don't believe it!"

despite the fact that Tillman's own mother had stated it as such.

There are healthy debates and disagreements to political views and then there is pathological hatred. When a "war hero" or President can be suddenly dropped from fellow american to sub-human based on their political affiliation in certain peoples eyes -something is dearly wrong.

Edited September 11, 2011 by froggyluv

[Fox '09 14]

I don't even think his family has received an apology yet, at least last time I recall hearing the story.

[STALKERGB 6]

Indeed, The Pat Tillman Story is quite interesting to watch.

A layman's view from the other side of the pond:

that hardline rightwingers won't agree with Obama on anything

This is certainly what it can look like from here in the UK, (not that it doesn't happen here too). It does look like they oppose stuff because it's Obama rather than on it's merit, or lack of. I personally find the mix of personal lives/religion and negative campaigning with actual politics very interesting. What I mean is, over here in the UK, there seems to be far less emphasis from party leaders on bad mouthing the opponents character. I'm not sure what most American's view of it is but again, over here the Tea Party has a.... strange... reputation, most of it seems to have come through entertainment media (it seemingly makes very good material for comedians) but it is often presented as the movement that doesn't care who's in power, as long as it's not Obama.

Anyway, like I say a layman's view...

[Fox '09 14]

They hate obama for the wrong reasons.. I am angry at obama because he hasn't changed much since dubya' left. We still have no-bid defense contracts, we still have 2 wars, we're in libya where he gave congress the finger, and we're still bombing other arab nations. We bailed out banks which in turn gave little, the federal reserve is not transparent yet (in fact he fought against it), there is still excessive speculation, the bush tax cuts are still in place, the patriot act is still in place.

We have no public option, a terribly watered down healthcare bill, nothing has changed at the CIA, gitmo is still not closed, and on and ON AND ON AND ON.

I'm voting for ron paul next election, I don't agree with him on many issues but he has been saying the same thing for the last 12 terms of congress. He's the most consistent, principled republican, and if not the most in congress. I do agree with him on foreign policy and monetary policy however.

/rant?

[froggyluv 2136]

They hate obama for the wrong reasons.. I am angry at obama because he hasn't changed much since dubya' left. We still have no-bid defense contracts' date=' we still have 2 wars, we're in libya where he gave congress the finger, and we're still bombing other arab nations. We bailed out banks which in turn gave little, the federal reserve is not transparent yet (in fact he fought against it), there is still excessive speculation, the bush tax cuts are still in place, the patriot act is still in place.

[/quote']

LOL! This is what boggles - many of his policies are continuation of Bush's policies (cept Healthcare of course) yet, Tea Party'ers act like he is Capt. Liberal, destroyer of the free market, BFF with our terrorist enemies. Hardcore liberals think he's too Rightwing?!?

I find him somewhat overly compromising but as a centrist, my greatest fear is that only the extreme can survive in todays Idiocracy.

[Fox '09 14]

Capt. Liberal? you mean the MARXIST REVOLUTIONARY, secret muslim barrack HUSSEIN obama?

[Hans Ludwig 0]

The original tea party was created by Libertarians and Ron Paul (who is an adherent to the Austrian School of Economics). In 2007 you saw the first Gadsden flags being waved during his speeches. I find it funny that you attack the tea party and then love Ron Paul.

Ron Paul: Father of the Tea Party

http://www.amazon.com/Ron-Paul-Father-Tea-Party/dp/0986832219

[Innomadic 10]

This is certainly what it can look like from here in the UK, (not that it doesn't happen here too). It does look like they oppose stuff because it's Obama rather than on it's merit, or lack of. I personally find the mix of personal lives/religion and negative campaigning with actual politics very interesting. What I mean is, over here in the UK, there seems to be far less emphasis from party leaders on bad mouthing the opponents character. I'm not sure what most American's view of it is but again, over here the Tea Party has a.... strange... reputation, most of it seems to have come through entertainment media (it seemingly makes very good material for comedians) but it is often presented as the movement that doesn't care who's in power, as long as it's not Obama.

Anyway, like I say a layman's view...

As another outsider looking in, i totally agree. People are begging Obama to do something yet his hands are tied by this kind of idiocy (again, from an outsiders view), and then people complain when he doesn't do anything. Its nigh upon impossible to do his job and hes doing a damn good job just keeping his head in the game.

[froggyluv 2136]

I like the way Ron Paul presents his facts and points -they are a far cry from when I hear a Michele Bachman open her mouth.

Michele Bachman on U.S Founding Fathers fighting slavery:

"But we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States," Bachmann added, claiming "men like John Quincy Adams... would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country."

Honestly I don't know enough about Ron Paul to make a solid determination of his political character but my exposure to Tea Party people on the streets has been less then impressive in terms of intelligent discussion and debate. Sometimes even a mastermind has fools for followers.

Edited September 12, 2011 by froggyluv

[Fox '09 14]

The original tea party was created by Libertarians and Ron Paul (who is an adherent to the Austrian School of Economics). In 2007 you saw the first Gadsden flags being waved during his speeches. I find it funny that you attack the tea party and then love Ron Paul.

Ron Paul: Father of the Tea Party

http://www.amazon.com/Ron-Paul-Father-Tea-Party/dp/0986832219

to that I say..

http://www.digitalmeetingcenter.com/ron-pauls-shocking-message-to-the-tea-party/851883/

I don't even think he's officially part of the tea party, although I'd have to check up on that again. He inspired them, but they haven't been led in the right direction.

Looking at the signs of the restoring honor protest gave me a second thought about the tea party. Talk to gabby about it. I don't think the whole tea party is full of those idiots, but there is a large portion that does. At least they show up more than the more intelligent people.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Fox '09

[st_dux 26]

The tea party isn't like an official party or anything. It's just a grassroots movement that started as a simple message of smaller government and less national spending. Social conservatives and the religious right have since tried to commandeer it, and unfortunately, they've had some success. Michele Bachmann calls herself a "tea party candidate," yet she's a socially conservative neocon (and also an idiot) who questions things like evolution.

The original tea party message, by which I believe a good number of self-proclaimed "tea partyers" still abide, is a positive one, though, and I believe its relative popularity is one of the main reasons why libertarian-leaning Republicans like Ron Paul are being taken more seriously now than ever before (although the mainstream media still does its best to completely ignore this movement).

[Fox '09 14]

well said.

Anyone watch Senator Jon Kyl's threat to the super committee? He said he would quit the super committee if defense was cut further. He said the military industrial comple- i mean troops were going to be hurt if the defense budget was cut more. (or something to that effect).

He was in a room full of defense contractors iirc too. They really have no shame, nobody cares and they're putting it right in front of people.

[nettrucker 143]

Honestly I don't know enough about Ron Paul to make a solid determination of his political character but my exposure to Tea Party people on the streets has been less then impressive in terms of intelligent discussion and debate. Sometimes even a mastermind has fools for followers.

Well I think he's the only one person together with Kucinich who are really trying to change things. I think that both of them have a pretty good idea of what is afflicting the USA and have a whole complex picture of what has to be changed and they have the balls to back it up. Unfortunately none of them will ever become president. They actually try to go after the FED, in case they would be elected, which noone has done for 90 years . . . for 90 f+cking years, there's never been an audit of the FED and I personally think it is the right thing to do. Greenspan has expressively said in an interview that the FED is untouchable WTF. They should also investigate the whole banking cartells while there at it, the military industrial complex.

Unfortunately it will not happen. People in the USA are asleep behind the wheel.

That's because the ones, who are pulling the strings, have been very cautious to hide their real plans and intentions and they are very dilligent to deceive people. The American public has been brainwashed for years by their own mass media. They know how to manipulate people. Here in Europe it's less extreme.

The American power structure is build out of men with no to little conscience I have to say, which goes for all power structures in the world BTW. There's corruption all over the place everywhere. Corruption is the cancer of Democracy. I'm disgusted by most Politicians. They don't have solutions because they are part of the problem. They don't have real values anymore. They don't give a shit about the people or the constitution or your rights.

Now you can call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever you want. I know my shit. I started my own research after 9/11 and it's been 10 long years now that i'm gathering info and inform myself. Since we're living in a globalized world it's not enough to watch what's happening here in Europe we have to pay attention all over the world.

And whoever declines, that there is something terrible wrong since 9/11 in the USA, are those who don't want to see. Which means the majority of the American people. Yeah some are waking up but most are deceived.

A nations biggest enemy has always been their own Government and the powestructure behind them. History has taught nothing to mankind.:(

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

[Innomadic 10]

Why conspiracy theorist? You're not questioning 9/11 itself, and only a fool wouldn't see the repercussions since.

[Fox '09 14]

A nations biggest enemy has always been their own Government and the powestructure behind them. History has taught nothing to mankind.:(

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

The sad thing is ron paul has been saying this for ages..

[Hans Ludwig 0]

The sad thing is ron paul has been saying this for ages..

Actually Austrian Economist have been saying this even longer. If you want to get even more technical' date=' you can say that it goes all the way back to Carl Menger.

Meanwhile, at the EPA.

[youtube']tHlWdZgJcRY

Edited September 13, 2011 by Hans Ludwig

[froggyluv 2136]

Caught some of the Tea Party debate tonite -Ludwig you must be happy Austro-Economics got a national mention :p

Don't like their tear down everything attitude but I give Paul props for even suggesting the U.S shouldn't meddle in others affairs with a Bin Laden reference in front of rabid Nationalists. Ballsy.

Tho this I found disturbing

CNN’s Wolf Blitzer posed this question to Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul: “A healthy young, 30-year-old man has a good job, makes a good living but decides, ‘You know what? I’m not going to spend $200 or $300 a month on health insurance because I’m healthy, I don’t need it.’ But something terrible happens, all the sudden he needs it. What’s going to happen if he goes into a coma? Who pays for that?â€

“What he should do is whatever he wants to do,†Paul replied. “That’s what freedom is all about, taking your own risks. This whole idea that you have to prepare to take care of everybody…â€

“Are you saying society should just let him die?†Blitzer asked.

The audience responded with shouts of “Yes!â€

“We’ve given up on this concept that we might take care of ourselves, assume responsibility for ourselves, our neighbors, our friends, our churches would do it,†Paul explained. “This is the reason the cost is so high… We have lack of competition. There’s no competition in medicine. Everybody’s protected by licensing â€

Edited September 13, 2011 by froggyluv