Remote validation for games.

[Baphomet 0]

Please tell me BIS will -never- ever go the way that Valve has gone and force you to either call a phone number or have an internet connection to validate one's copy of OFP 2.

I was never terribly interested in Halflife 2 to begin with, now I'm somewhat disgusted that they've taken a cue from microsoft and forced you to have an internet connection to validate the copy of a game that you purchased at a store.

I was in another forum discussing this and someone mentioned that OFP's copy protection was so much better as it didn't inconvenience the shit out of players yet was effective enough to prevent the game from being hacked and pirated on a large scale.

I totally agree with this. I believe it's an unnecessary inconvenience. I'd be rather insulted if I was forced to have to endure it just to play a game I liked. I'd seriously consider not even buying it and I'd encourage others not to as well if it were the case. Yeah it's spiteful, but I just hate the audacity of valve to force something like that. Not to mention that I do harbor an abiding hatred to for steam, so that does account for a certain level of disgust when this issue came to my attention.

In my opinion that's one step closer to a conceptual orwellian 1984 type control over software.

[ozanzac 0]

Agreed.

Though it probably wouldn't stop me purchasing OFPII, it's an inconvinience I'd much rather not deal with. Especially after a reformat incident. There's enough on my plate as it is.

[kegetys 2]

Yet another burden for the legal buyers

[berghoff 11]

Please tell me BIS will -never- ever go the way that Valve has gone and force you to either call a phone number or have an internet connection to validate one's copy of OFP 2.

Hmm, so you need to install that program, steam in order to play?

I hope no other company follows this because when you buy a game in a shop you at least can expect you just have to install and play. Also I hope it won't have starforce or whatever it's called because when I did install this RPG game it told me it has to install driver, i mean wth I didn't ask for install foreign driver or did I.

And that's not the end of it, recently I read that Knights of Honor actually looked up for virtual drive software and if found it would disable the program. I hope this end somewhere or otherwise legal buyers are suffering more and more.

[stu 0]

Theyr taking it abit to far.

Control freaks in the making.

I mean wot about people who're not online and go out and buy there game.

[benu 1]

I guess there will be a crack out for that soon.

It is sad, but i know of several people that used to buy original games that do warez nowadays, because they have to get the warez anyway as the original will not work on their systems. You wanna play "new game xyz"? Sure, buy it, but then remove all virtual cd software, install this crappy 3rd party cd driver (star force) and let companies scan your system. Oh, and always put it the cd when you want to play. Thanks for buying.

[korax 4]

I was in another forum discussing this and someone mentioned that OFP's copy protection was so much better as it didn't inconvenience the shit out of players yet was effective enough to prevent the game from being hacked and pirated on a large scale.

How is OFP's copy protection currently better than any other game?

You can probably bypass the cd protection, fade, and get a cd key, and you can STILL play online for 30 minutes without being kicked from the "Original games do not FADE" message.

Please tell me BIS will -never- ever go the way that Valve has gone and force you to either call a phone number or have an internet connection to validate one's copy of OFP 2.

If you ask me its not that much of an inconvenience, considering on how much piracy it will prevent (before its eventually cracked). If someone does not have either a phone line or an internet connection then I'm wondering how they have a computer powerful enough to play the game.

I wouldnt care if ofp2 has an online internet/phone line activation requirement, just as long as it does not need the CD in the drive to play (useless hassle) and has good enough copy/cheater protection to prevent so many obviously easy hacks which can be done in ofp1.

[Baphomet 0]

Thing is though. I never heard much about OFP having much problems with piracy. Not compared to other games in the past like Quake. Apparently there were more pirated copies of that than the actual game.

First of all the issue of patching OFP, even if the person decides to try playing the game even though fade is activated, they still couldn't conceivably patch the game, as it's probably got a hacked exe file. This leaves them out of the huge user community as the version requirements for addons has gone up over the years.

Yes it will always be a problem. However mark my words when I say that HL2 will definitely get pirated just because some surly hacker wants to flout Valve's authority. I don't say I agree with it, but unfortunately it happens.

I've always maintained that BIS deserves every bit of money that comes their way because they made a tremendous product that offers then and now something that no other game can. However I think there must be a better way to protect their earning capacity and not treat their customers like crap. Which I personally feel that remote validation does. I reformat my computer on a fairly regular four to six month schedule. I want to restore my computer as quickly as possible without going through needless horsecrap just to put a game on my computer and have it work.

Seriously though. What's next? Single install per/cd games?

Granted I don't think BIS is even evil enough to come up with something like steam. Which I primarily hate as it requires you to run while you're playing online. Which to me is a senseless waste of system resources. I stopped playing TS because of it, Valve basically told me that it was OK for them to steal valuable memory and cpu cycles because of their idiotic software.

[Cosmic Evolution 0]

As an owner of HL:2 I'm actually very glad that someone has hacked a work around for the connection the steam that was required to play the game.

It annoying enough to have to go through the process of downloading and validating the game in the first place, then I have to wait two minutes to LAUNCH the game so it can connect to steam every time.  Ridiculous!  I bought and own it, but am forced to wait each time I play (and who knows what would happen if I lost my internet connection. )

I agree, if you want protection your player id method or the method used with Joint Operations are both MUCH better then Valves idea.

[bn880 5]

Hi guys, this is what I have mentioned to BIs here before, never make us rely on anyone's servers but our own to play the game.

Piracy will exist anyway... so there has to be a limit on the BS legal buyers have to go through. Reading about HL2, I know that they went too far, IMO RvS went too far as well.

EDIT: Remember you are not allowed to discuss hacking/cracking on these forums.

[vektorboson 8]

I won't buy OFP 2 if it'll have some type of online registration/activation thing. Period.

I'm pretty happy with migrating almost all of my tasks to Linux/free software, where the "customer" is not being treated like a terrorist. And I am paying for my distribution because this is fair use.

The gaming industry just makes me sick, only producing one more variation of the same old Quake-like FPS, just with different story, or just for online play. They always go for the same lemmings who are just interested in the latest graphical improvements, and it seems this is the biggest market.

Unlike BIS, who really were innovative, and their game is still more innovative than any other on the market.

I hope that BIS people don't follow the trends, like slavery employment at EA, harrassment of customers like Valve and others.

[KJAM 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you ask me its not that much of an inconvenience, considering on how much piracy it will prevent (before its eventually cracked). If someone does not have either a phone line or an internet connection then I'm wondering how they have a computer powerful enough to play the game.

Hell yes it is inconvinient!!!!

i have hl2, installed it and steam doesnt even acknowledge that i have installed it so basically, i have a game i can use, yuppretty damn inconvinient

[Mr_Tea 0]

I think the copy protection of OFP2 should work as that from VBS1. Simple put a crypted USB Stick in your PC, and it will work. No original crypted USB Stick = OFP2 don`t work.

Secure and easy, and don`t tell me a PC that can run OFP2 has no USB Port.

[raedor 8]

I think the copy protection of OFP2 should work as that from VBS1. Simple put a crypted USB Stick in your PC, and it will work. No original crypted USB Stick = OFP2 don`t work.

Secure and easy, and don`t tell me a PC that can run OFP2 has no USB Port.

yep, that's the best way imho as long as only BIS/BIA products are using it. but if all games would require an USB stick... there would not be enough ports for them. and i don't like crouching behind my desk just to change the USB sticks.

i only don't know if it is possible to do for a "mass product" like ofp.

[D34N 0]

Seems kind of expensive to me... Although I have no Idea how much those USB sticks would cost. Lost Profits from Protection Vs. Lost Profits from Piracy.. a tough decision for BIS.

[Guest]

I think the StarForce library was one of the best pieces of anti-piracy software ever devised and it's shown in the fact that Operation Flashpoint hasn't been pirated. I can't see the library being cracked in the future as it's one of the most difficult if not the most difficult pieces of software to crack (Note: I hae never tried to crack it and have legitimate software) Just thought i'd make that clear. I know Soldiers: Heroes Of World War II uses this library too. As for validation, i'm not so keen on Valve-style authentication. What BIS have planned i do not know.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

IHMO Current OFP protection is enough, USB Keys would be too much of a hassle as my current PC doesnt have USB ports in front and I do not plan on changing my tower in near or far future, Valves protection sucks and it has already been cracked.

Since I live in country where you CANNOT buy original games since it would be too much expensive and inpractical for the sellers on the markets.

Games shops DO NOT exist in Sarajevo as far as I know, since at first I had cracked OFP, but since Resistance is hardly available in stores here my copy of OFP arrived from Germany from a friend whom I forgot name .

And as for VBS's usage of USB key, well if anyone of the crackers was keen on cracking it, he would possibly succeed.

Now you all ppl don't be bit**** because you have to put a CD in your drive, think of someone who is great fan of OFP (like me) and isn't able to EVEN GET the game to put it in his drive.

And then think, isn't that sad?

[dm 9]

And as for VBS's usage of USB key, well if anyone of the crackers was keen on cracking it, he would possibly succeed.

If I recall correctly, 128 bit encryption has never been broken since it was put into use.

The reason being is that there are 2^128 possible code combinations (thats 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,770,000,000) for the type of encryption used on VBS1.

So I dont think anyone will be breaking it any time soon

[shinRaiden 0]

There's only two practical options, per-application dongles, or system-wide stuff like Palladium. I'm pretty sure we're nearly all in agreement that letting M$ control our PC and security is ultimately a bad thing. Nobody else wants to develop something like that, as the industry cooperation requirements are too big. Plus that would require hardware level implementation hooks, and the MPAA and RIAA would want to assist in design-by-committee.

The other option would be dongles. The problem with dongles though is that nobody shares dongles. I have one for VBS on my computer, my brother has one for Keycreator on his computer, and there is a ton of different applications that all use different dongles. If you start adding a dongle for every other app you install, where are you going to put them all? Do you maintain physical security over your dongles? What about using them to encrypt or authenticate data in other machines? They're not always plug-and-pray, and some places like hotspots and libraries don't like you messing with their machines.

The other problem with dongles is that they're fat. With the way that most cases layout their USB ports, the dongle will overlap the port next to it. So if you have 6 ports like my case, you're limited to 3 dongles and no other USB stuff. You could buy a sack of 1 foot (30cm) USB extension cables and give you PC dreadlocks.

[feersum.endjinn 6]

And as for VBS's usage of USB key, well if anyone of the crackers was keen on cracking it, he would possibly succeed.

If I recall correctly, 128 bit encryption has never been broken since it was put into use.

The reason being is that there are 2^128 possible code combinations (thats 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,770,000,000) for the type of encryption used on VBS1.

So I dont think anyone will be breaking it any time soon

There is no need to break the encryption because you already "know" the key, no matter if it is 65536 bits. Your computer still needs to be able to read data from encrypted PBOs in able to send it to the gfx card.

Main reason why custom protections like this work better is that since every CD they sent is custom made, it's also pretty easy to hide some identifying marker somewhere - if someone leaks it, VBS folks know it pretty accurately where it leaked from. It still happens, but pirates prefer cracking retail versions of games, when tagged press review copies leak to the net on large scale usually someone will pay for it with their job or more.

And USB dongles are expensive as hell, not to mention what it would do to the CD pressing expenses...

[kegetys 2]

I think the StarForce library was one of the best pieces of anti-piracy software ever devised and it's shown in the fact that Operation Flashpoint hasn't been pirated. I can't see the library being cracked in the future as it's one of the most difficult if not the most difficult pieces of software to crack

Except OFP didn't use Starforce but Safedisc (Which is not there anymore in v1.96), and both Safedisc and Starforce have been cracked. OFP was "available" even before the retail release.

Any USB key based protection would get cracked too, and it would then end up being just another burden for the legal owners. As Feersum said the USB protection in programs like VBS work because each customer can be traced if they distribute the key they have on their USB stick or the unique version they have. If you'd buy a product from a store, you could safely distribute the key in your USB device (as a software 'clone' of the actual hardware device for example) and you'd never get caught.

My recommendations for fighting piracy would be:

- Make good, enjoyable games. Most games suck, people dont buy them because they dont want to, not because they dont necessarily have to.

- Add value to the product. Things like physical manuals, maps, posters, etc. in the game box won't be coming in a pirated version.

- Avoid leaking the game before retail release, tag press copies and use trustable CD factories.

- Release the game at the same time in the whole world. If you'll do an US release two months before european release, a very big part of your european customers will be bored with the game already before they'll even be able to buy it.

- Avoid harming the legal buyers. Copy protections like starforce or an USB based protection only causes trouble for the people who gave you money, the people copying the game won't have that burden.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I'm waiting for someone to hack Steam and add a virus to one of the "auto-updates" that make Valve (and other devs) think "Woah! Maybe this isn't such a good idea! We can't pay these legal fees of angry customers when we promised our protection!"

Steam is a crock, it even connects to a server even if you select "Start in Offline Mode", I've tried it (I tried it with the net disconnected but modem on, then again with the modem on but the phone line physically removed from the modem, and it said something like "Steam cannont start due to not being able to connect to a server" or similar)!

They should AT LEAST add an option for optional downloads of updates, so say they release a patch, they should tell you when you start Steam then give you the option to download and install it or not, aswell as the auto-update and do not auto-update options.

What made me extra mad was the fact the case (poorly designed, has a screenshot from before the beta leak over a year ago, think its from the 2002 E3 demo actually) had nothing in it but the dvd and a crappy referance card! I want a proper manual, maybe a poster or something, if it's something like OFP maybe poster sized map's of the main islands. Like keg said, these things make you prefer to buy the proper game, and make you think "I've actually got something for my money!". I almost went back to the shop to say they give me a box without the manual, but the fact it was in plastic wrap gave away that that's all you got!

I hope BIS make a CD & DVD version, (Valve just made DVD for the European release I think, at least in the UK) so that means you NEED the net AND a DVD-Drive too! My friend got it and he has dial up, it took him 2 hours almost to install it, decrypt the files, update steam, then the game itself, then to finally get into the game and play! Then when he got to a loading place it crashed because it couldn't connect to a steam server because his connection time had run out!

In short... BIS! DO NOT make anything in any way shape or form like Steam or Valve's authentication system! IT SUCKS MAJOR LOVE NUTS!

[Mr_Tea 0]

Petra, from the german magazine Gamestar get her copy of Half Life II after moving to a new apartment. She was happy, yeahh i got it. When she tryed to install came the shock. No HL II install without internet connection. And she became her internet connection not before one week after moving. She was not amused, thats for sure. Nearly 20% of the gamers dont have internet. How can they make a singleplayer game with no multiplayer support, that requires a internet connection for install. Bad idea me thinks. I think ther are better ways of copy protection that didn`t bother the legal buyers of software.

[blackdog~ 0]

How can they make a singleplayer game with no multiplayer support, that requires a internet connection for install. Bad idea me thinks. I think ther are better ways of copy protection that didn`t bother the legal buyers of software.

Because they have something we don't:

A freaking massive player base

[feersum.endjinn 6]

- Release the game at the same time in the whole world. If you'll do an US release two months before european release, a very big part of your european customers will be bored with the game already before they'll even be able to buy it.

I can't stress enough how important simultaneous global release dates are in combating against piracy. 3-4 month delay in European release will drain sales down the shitter - unless game has exceptional replay value or strong online gaming following, it will affect sales. Hollywood has learned it hard way, and nowadays movies have simultaneous premiers worldwide.

<rant mode on>

I own original copy of Ghost Recon, and was eagerly awaiting for addon disks Desert Siege and Island Thunder. Guess what, Ubi f**ked up and I never saw those in stores here in Finland until four months after US release. As they were practically necessary for online play almost immediately after US release, I got them anyway, but Ubi sure as hell didn't see penny of my money.

With Raven Shield, Ubi got their act together regarding release dates. I got mine from local games store and ended up playing it well before my less law-abiding friends and when addon disk came out, I could get my hands on legal copy couple of days after US release, and I was soon playing happily online with my legal copy.

Now there are games like Knights of the Old Republic 2 - loved first one, would've happily paid that 50-60€ for sequel too but EU release date is set to March 2005 and bullshit laws about "gray imports" prevent anyone selling US versions legally here.

With 8Mb ADSL connections being priced under 50€/month, any kid with modded Xbox can download full game in less than 30 minutes. A Jedi might might be able to resist, but for most people the temptation of the dark side is just too strong.