Enthusiasts Eye Assault Rifles as Ban Nears End

[HotShot 0]

I heard on the news that either 1/4 or a third (think it was 1/4) of police officers who were killed, were killed by automatic weapons. Seem's kinda crazy to allow people to have easier access to automatics. What the hell do you need an automatic weapon for anyway?! Isn't a regular rifle enough to shoot targets with? Isn't there pellet or bb automatic guns out there, if you are that bothered about being able to unload a magazine in a matter of seconds?

[DarkLight 0]

I heard on the news that either 1/4 or a third (think it was 1/4) of police officers who were killed, were killed by automatic weapons. Seem's kinda crazy to allow people to have easier access to automatics. What the hell do you need an automatic weapon for anyway?! Isn't a regular rifle enough to shoot targets with? Isn't there pellet or bb automatic guns out there, if you are that bothered about being able to unload a magazine in a matter of seconds?

That's the whole freakin' point, why allow such extremely dangerous weapons while there is no good reason at all to allow them...

I'd like to hear one GOOD reason why they should be legalized...

There is no good reason if you ask me... how can it be good to sell something that is made to kill eachother in the first place?  How the hell is it possible that it is good to sell an extremely heavy and dangerous version of something that is made to kill in the first place?

There's nothing positive about this if you ask me...

Entertainment you say?  Those kind of guns aren't made for entertainment and that's just the way it is...

[HotShot 0]

After saying my last post, i read this. This suggests that Assault weapons arn't used so much. Depends on the study though i guess, could have 2 legitimate studies, 2 different results.

I still think Assault weapons should be banned, even if they are only the cause of 1% of deaths.

[Pathy 0]

Assault Rifles:

Bad things:

-Can be used to kill people

Good things:

.....

still thinking

......

oh yeh, some redneck might have fun shooting tin cans.....

yup, lets allow them, we wouldnt want to deprive that redneck of his fun for the sake of saving lives.

[Balschoiw 0]

Wasn´t that ban that is running out now also supported by police at the time it was introduced ?

I wonder why.

Edit:

I´ve looked up some police pages and they are NOT happy that the ban expires. At least they are the ones who should know what harm those weapons do, shouldn´t they ?

Why don´t you listen to your policemen ? Are they not credible in your eyes or are they teamed up with the government you want to overthrow with your assault weapons ?

International Association of Chiefs of Police against the expiration of the ban.

Quote[/b] ]On September 13, the federal ban on assault weapons, first passed in 1994, will expire unless Congress acts to reauthorize it.

Please contact your Members of Congress to urge them to support legislation to reauthorize the ban on assault weapons. We must make every effort to ensure that our elected officials understand that failure to reauthorize the assault weapons ban is a significant step back for law enforcement and public safety.

the

International Brotherhood of Police Officers, IBPO, is against the expiration of the ban.

IBPO webpage

and even the

Fraternal Order of Police, that is supporting the Bush campaign, is opposing the expiration of the ban.

Fraternal Order Of Police

So they don´t know what they are talking about , right ?

[DarkLight 0]

Assault Rifles:

Bad things:

-Can be used to kill people

Good things:

.....

still thinking

......

oh yeh, some redneck might have fun shooting tin cans.....

yup, lets allow them, we wouldnt want to deprive that redneck of his fun for the sake of saving lives.

Damn irony makes me so happy!

Quote[/b] ]Wasn´t that ban that is running out now also supported by police at the time it was introduced ?

I wonder why.

Oh! Oh! can i do a lucky guess?

Pfff i don't understand how someone can possibly like stuff like this... what the fuck is wrong with this world?

Scary shit!

I think i'll go hide under my bed now...

[DanAK47 1]

I've talked to some cops and they agree that "cop organizations" are not for cops at all.

They scoff when people say that all cops are for the AWB. Most of them like assault weapons.

1/4th of police are killed with automatic weapons?

Maybe you mean semi-automatic.

Full auto weapons are illegal.

The last murder with a full automatic weapon was commited by a police officer, in the 70s, I think.

The deadliness of assault weapons is somewhat exaggerated with reguards to the deadliness of other, more "humble" weapons.. If you truly want to reduce crime you are going in the wrong direction. Studies show that most crimes are commited with illegally purchased revolvers.. Ban them if you care about the facts and not hypothetical situations..

[sputnik monroe 102]

Fine go hide under your bed. Heck every one go ahead seize every ones firearms.  There will still be murder and death (a lot still by firearms) the only difference is the people who weren't using them to commit crimes wont have them any more. Big deal, I still think a real solution would be better.

   I hate rap and first person shooters, there are lots of groups who claim they cause crime. So how about we ban them also. I don't care how much proof there is to the contrary, I just don't see why any one needs them and I would feel much safer if they were not availible.

    Lets just ban everything. I'd feel a lot safer knowing my neighbor isn't getting any ideas or messing around with anything period.

     Come on people really. Why don't any of you come up with a real solution to crime? Banning inanimate objects will solve absolutely nothing .  If some one is going to kill a man they aren't going to give a damn about any gun laws. It's all ready illegal to murder people.

    The problem isn't guns, it's the American people and their justice system. You can commit many crimes in this country and get off with a slap on the wrist. The average American is a slime bag and a fool who's children learn from an early age that nothing is their fault. They learn that they can always blame society, music, games, guns, or any other inanimate for their twisted deeds.  

    How about punishing people when they do wrong and instill in childrens heads at a early age that it's wrong to kill, rob, cheat, and steal from people. Teach them that pimps and gang bangers should be looked down upon not envied and respected. Teach them that if you wrong some one you will pay a price.  

 

    Oh forget that, lets just ban stuff. It's much easier than actually dealing with the problem. Dealing with the problem actually takes work.

      Disgusted and sick of it all...  Sputnik Monroe

[DarkLight 0]

I've talked to some cops and they agree that "cop organizations" are not for cops at all.

They scoff when people say that all cops are for the AWB. Most of them like assault weapons.

1/4th of police are killed with automatic weapons?

Maybe you mean semi-automatic.

Full auto weapons are illegal.

The last murder with a full automatic weapon was commited by a police officer, in the 70s, I think.

The deadliness of assault weapons is somewhat exaggerated with reguards to the deadliness of other, more "humble" weapons.. If you truly want to reduce crime you are going in the wrong direction. Studies show that most crimes are commited with illegally purchased revolvers.. Ban them if you care about the facts and not hypothetical situations..

And still... there is no reason why these weapons should become legal...

Why legalize them?  Isn't it better to show everyone that these weapons are dangerous?  That they SHOULD be banned?

Let's take hard drugs as an example...

The reason why hard drugs are illegal is because they ARE dangerous...

I know ppl who use hard drugs once in a while, they are not addicted, they do not cause/have any problems at all, they know what they're doing, they're the right age, they're intelligent people.  There's no difference between these guys and you that likes to go to the pub once in a while for some beers.

These ppl are ppl with brains, who enjoy messing up their brains once in a while for some reason.  But why the hell not, they're minding their own business right?  They don't hang around on the streets while drunk, causing problems all over the place. And still, hard drugs are illegal.

Same for heavy weapons...

There's no reason to legalize these weapons.  Sure, some ppl cna handle them, just like some ppl know how to use certain drugs in a grownup way inside their own home (sure i bet all of you will freak out now, sorry to disturb your "all drugs are evil" world).  But does that mean that they should be legalized?  FUCK NO

Cause the biggest part of your population DOESNT know how to handle them (drugs and guns that is).

And yes of course you'll still have such weapons/drugs on the black market but that's just the way this world works...

Heavy guns are like hard drugs.  They should be illegal because there are waaay too much ppl out there who can't handle them.  Hell a lot of ppl can't even handle soft drugs/small firearms...

It's exactly the same fucking thing if you ask me...

Both are dangerous if used in a wrong way... and both should be illegal for that reason.

Sure you need a license for a gun, not for drugs... but that's not the point.

The point is that both are dangerous if in the wrong hands... and evne worse, guns are dangerous to other ppl while drugs destroy the human beign himself.

If you have some brains, and if you are convinced that bad and dangerous stuff should be illegal then these guns should be illegal too...

that's what i think

[DanAK47 1]

They aren't significantly more dangerous than any other rifle out there.

Relax.

[Gordy 0]

This is from a "The Official Fuck the AWB Thread."

That's the whole difference in assault rifles. Would it be less dangerous if the stock was welded?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I've talked to some cops and they agree that "cop organizations" are not for cops at all.

Source ?

Link ?

I can run around saying this and that, but that´s not credible. Especially when you are defending the right to have AW´s.

The orgnizations I quoted have a hell lot of members. Do you think they would be members if they didn´t like them ?

Show me some proof and come again.

It´s funny that you always have someone you just recently met and talked to about the issue...

Credible ? No.

Don´t you think that all of the funny policemen wouldn´t have left that organizations if they didn´t feel well represented ?

You´re a funny guy..really...

[DanAK47 1]

I am talking about people not web addresses.

[RooK 0]

Show me what was effective about the AWB, as put into law... Fact is, none of it was. There were three parts to this ban: Specific Firearms, Accessories, Magazines. Let's go through each one piece by piece and show the obsurdity.

Ban on specific firearms. Never worked. Firearms listed for ban were either banned from import in '89, put back into production under different names, or the company doesn't exist anymore. Perfect examples are the firearms made by Vulcan Arms, Vector Arms, Ohio Rapid Fire, Bushmaster, Colt, and many others. Google them for their websites. AK varients, UZIs, Galils, FALs, AR-15s and many other firearms were still in production during the AWB.

Feature/Accessory ban. Stupidest concept ever made, here's a picture of a preban/postban AR-15 to show the difference:

The only difference is the bayonet lug and flash suppressor. Pretty stupid eh? Not only this, these features cross over to non-military rifles. Take a Remington 11-87 shotgun for instance. Slap on a pistol grip stock (ergonomics) and a 3-shell magazine tube extension: Assault Weapon. Don't duck hunters use those? Take a Ruger 10/22, put a thumbhole target stock on it and thread the barrel for a compensator: Assault Weapon. Hmm, that's a very popular squirrel rifle and competition gun.

Lastly, the magazine ban. This many affected newly manufactured firearms that were not in production before the '94 ban. All other firearms had their high capacity magazines grandfathered and are free to use them in post-ban legal rifles. AR-15, AK-47, FAL, G3, and UZI mags (20, 30 and 32rnd capacities) could all be had for less than $10 each during the ban because the market was saturated. It had no effect on their use. Look up places like CDNN Investments, Vector Arms, and K-Var.

Are you starting to see why this ban needed to expire? It did not ban anything, except features, and if someone customized a semi-auto firearm to their liking, even if it wasn't military related, they could violate the law very easily without knowing it and get sent to prison for 10 years. Just for something as simple as threading their barrel for a compensator. Actual firearm performance/lethality was not effected by the features either.

Uses for banned weapons: Self defense, competition, hunting. Civilians, like police (who are civilians), use AWs for protection. They're ergonomic, easy to operate under stress, and offer better protection than a handgun. To add insult to injury, police run into the same problems that civilians do, to give it to one side and not the other is ignorant. AR-15s, and many other military rifles are used in competitions such as Service Rifle and 3-gun where speed and accuracy is needed. They are used in many competitions, just research it and you'll find more than enough evidence. AR-15s are wonderful coyote calling rifles, they're also used by some people on prarie dog fields. AKs match the old .30-30 in ballistics and several people are using them for hunting due to the cheaper price. They're also not as inaccurate as most people say. M14s, G3s, and FALs have been used for hunting deer for ages and fire the .308 Win cartridge, a very popular hunting round.

M14 used on turkey:

Lastly, the AWB covered semi-auto firearms only! No machineguns or other 'restricted' weapons were covered. Also, during the time it was encated, these crimes took place: Columbine, North Hollywood Shootout, D.C. Sniper. The AWB stopped none of them and the Hollywood crime involved full-auto AKs smuggled in from Mexico. AWB didn't stop that either. AWs before the ban were used in less than 3% of all crimes, handguns are the weapons of choice for criminals.

[Acecombat 0]

@Dark Light:

Quote[/b] ]that's what i think

And me too i agree there with you , if only people would see reason and common sense for once

[Acecombat 0]

Dam double post

[DarkLight 0]

First of all... if you are saying that some ppl modify their weapons into assault weapons then personally i don't see that as a good reason for the ban to expire...  Oh well, my english isn't THAT well so maybe i'm just not understanding what you're trying to tell me... forgive me if i misunderstood you... i'm just human after all...

And yes, no matter what happens, these guns will always be sold, one way or another, legal or illegal...

But is it because some pothead drug addict buys all his drugs on the streets that all drugs should be legalized?

Just because "if he doesn't buy them in a shop, he'll just buy them on the streets"?

Why doesn't anybody ever say that about drugs, huh?  Just like with these guns...  "If ppl don't buy them in shops they'll buy them on the streets"  Well that's fantastic, let's legalize everything that's illegal right now!  Cuz you know, if ppl don't get it the legal way, they'll just get it the illegal way!

And you don't need a cannon for self defense, a normal pistol is good enough if you ask me.

Taking out a weapon in the first place is a pretty stupid thing to do if you ask me... if someone enters your house with weapons and crap like that then they might just be professional guys.  Sure if it's one of those punks you can shoot'm to pieces, i bet if you burry him in your garden no one will even know that something happened. Wouldn't that be great, thanks to your big gun you just blew someone to pieces, probably just some poor idiot trying to get money for his drugs/food/clothes/whatever

And if they're professionals, they'll just blow you to pieces before you even have the chance to say "automatic weapon". Hooray! Guns rock!

Fuck your car and possessions, that's what they want... all you need is your life... getting your gun out and pretending to be rambo will only endanger your life.  Acting like some big ass motherfucker (gangstaah styyyle) is pretty much the most stupid thing that someone can do.  Everyone will start panicking and in the end there'll be more brains sticking to your walls than you could ever dream off...

A gun for safety my ass, just lock your fucking door or get a dog ffs.  You ppl are paranoid, i bet if i enter your garden to get my basketball that fell into your garden you'll blow my head off with your nice shiny weapons.

[DanAK47 1]

1%... Does anyone remember what that percentage corresponds to..?

[BoweryBaker 0]

You trust people first, then limit them as punishment. You don't limit them first, then allow them freedom.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]You ppl are paranoid, i bet if i enter your garden to get my basketball that fell into your garden you'll blow my head off with your nice shiny weapons.

No, but you will be shot if you jimmy a window in the dead of night and try to sneak in to get your baseball out of the attic.

Quote[/b] ]just lock your fucking door

Do you need me to explain how to jimmy a window ?

Quote[/b] ]get a dog

Yes, it's so much better to be mauled than it is to be shot.

[RooK 0]

Quote[/b] ]First of all... if you are saying that some ppl modify their weapons into assault weapons then personally i don't see that as a good reason for the ban to expire... Oh well, my english isn't THAT well so maybe i'm just not understanding what you're trying to tell me... forgive me if i misunderstood you... i'm just human after all...

Just through modifying a firearm to meet a certain use, say competition or hunting, you can accidently get it classified as an 'assault weapon'. The features, especially barrel threads, are in no way specific to military weapons. How does a bayonet lug increase a firearms lethality, or a pistol grip? Pistol grips were originally designed for ergonomics, otherwise hanguns would be still be utilizing the long curvatures used in the early blackpowder designs. It's pretty sad to have to spend 10 years in prison because "I added a pistol grip to my duck gun."

Quote[/b] ]And yes, no matter what happens, these guns will always be sold, one way or another, legal or illegal...

But is it because some pothead drug addict buys all his drugs on the streets that all drugs should be legalized?

Just because "if he doesn't buy them in a shop, he'll just buy them on the streets"?

Why doesn't anybody ever say that about drugs, huh? Just like with these guns... "If ppl don't buy them in shops they'll buy them on the streets" Well that's fantastic, let's legalize everything that's illegal right now! Cuz you know, if ppl don't get it the legal way, they'll just get it the illegal way!

Many people do think drugs should be legalized. I'm pretty much neutral on the issue. If you did legalize it, a lot of crime would be prevented and you could also eliminate some incidental deaths due to competition between dealers or improper use. But consider this: firearms are tools to be used, for good or bad. They don't automatically kill people or cause death. They have many practical uses, already listed. Drugs automatically hurt the user through their use. There is no way to moderatley smoke cannibus or take heroine (like alcohol) to where it won't affect your motor abilities. The whole point in using illegal drugs is to get the 'high' from overuse. Hallucinogens bring in a whole new game, making the person automatically dangerous to everyone around them unless restrained at the time of use. They could do anything while in such a state.

Quote[/b] ]And you don't need a cannon for self defense, a normal pistol is good enough if you ask me.

Taking out a weapon in the first place is a pretty stupid thing to do if you ask me... if someone enters your house with weapons and crap like that then they might just be professional guys. Sure if it's one of those punks you can shoot'm to pieces, i bet if you burry him in your garden no one will even know that something happened. Wouldn't that be great, thanks to your big gun you just blew someone to pieces, probably just some poor idiot trying to get money for his drugs/food/clothes/whatever

And if they're professionals, they'll just blow you to pieces before you even have the chance to say "automatic weapon". Hooray! Guns rock!

You assume too much. First, handguns are borderline for effectiveness on the human body. Police have been struggling with this for ages, looking for new calibers or bullet designs to reliably stop a suspect. Their only plus is portability, which is why police use them as their main weapon. When police go after a suspect with prior knowledge, they take either a shotgun or rifle (usually an assault weapon) because they know their life is on the line. Civilians should have the same exact choices in defending themselves.

Secondly, self defense, here in the US anyway, is clearly defined as use deadly force when the same is facing you. Going around shooting unarmed people, even burglars, unless they are a lethal threat, is illegal. Most people don't go looking for trouble either. I posted this on another forum:

"If an intruder was in my house I would personally: Grab a gun, grab a phone and dial 911, check on family members, and wait it out. In that order. If I happened upon an intruder somewhere during all of this, I would point the gun at them and tell them to leave. If they left then fine, if they made an attempt or suspected attempt to hurt me or someone else, I would fire. I think these are very reasonable conditions. I'm also not risking my life going out of the way to get into trouble."

Is that not reasonable? I also have no sympathy for someone's life, if it comes to the point that they would harm me or someone else over property or money, be that person a drug user or a kid from the neighborhood.

Quote[/b] ]Fuck your car and possessions, that's what they want... all you need is your life... getting your gun out and pretending to be rambo will only endanger your life. Acting like some big ass motherfucker (gangstaah styyyle) is pretty much the most stupid thing that someone can do. Everyone will start panicking and in the end there'll be more brains sticking to your walls than you could ever dream off...

Pulling out a gun is far from stupid. Acting like Rambo though definately is. See my above listed ROE. Civilians, like police, can also visit training centers and go through actual training for such scenarios. Whether someone endagers their life acting like Rambo or not, you have no right to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves with the best means available. If you choose not to use a gun, then that is your choice, as it should be when it comes to your life. If they act rash and do something stupid, the law will punish them for it. Generally such a crime is a felony and thus makes it illegal for them to own a firearm the rest of their life. Seems fair to me.

Quote[/b] ]A gun for safety my ass, just lock your fucking door or get a dog ffs. You ppl are paranoid, i bet if i enter your garden to get my basketball that fell into your garden you'll blow my head off with your nice shiny weapons.

Once again, your opinion. Many people hate dogs, they're also a much bigger liability than any firearm if trained for protection. Just because I own firearms doesn't mean I foam at the mouth and try to shoot everything that moves. Seriously, quit making riduculous assumptions and use common sense. Paranoid? No. We just believe in being prepared. Does you government not keep a military during times of peace? Do police not take handguns with them to vehicles on routine traffic stops? Same concept.

[bn880 5]

The last murder with a full automatic weapon was commited by a police officer, in the 70s, I think.

As if! I would need some serious proof to believe that one.

I have personally seen tapes with fully automatic shotouts where people have died as a result of, and they were not from the 70's... hmmm

funny

[BoweryBaker 0]

Let me tell you guys something. Weed doesn't make you hallucinate. I know, ive smoked it. I was never a danger to anyone while....forget it, whole different topic. But I'll say it again and with emphasis this time:

You TRUST people FIRST, THEEEN limit them as punishment. You don't LIMIT them first, THEN allow them freedom.

[bn880 5]

yes, however society already has enough experience with people in general to know what these people can or can not be trusted with.

You can't assume no restrictions can be placed on a new born baby, unless you erase society and our knowledge.

[DanAK47 1]

There is no "experience" to prove assault weapons cause a crime epidemic..

You don't trust people with guns, because they allegedly use them to commit murder (let me remind you that this is illegal), but you trust them to not commit a much less illegal act in purchasing an illegal firearm.

Maybe you will say that if they are restricted, it will be much harder for the common man to get hold of them. Well, what about marijuana?