Fahrenheit 9/11

[Bernadotte 0]

Perhaps one of the best reviews I've read of Farenheit 9/11 is this one that Tex [uSMC] wrote for his blog:

Quote[/b] ]Michael Moore makes me want to hurt myself and others.

So I just finished up watching Farenheit 9/11, and I am very pissed off right now. This post will be devoted to reviewing/ranting about the movie and Moore- you will find out why you can't discuss one without the other a bit later. Without further preface, I give you: Michael Moore Is A Retard, OR: How To Miss A Golden Opportunity.

Farenheit 9/11 is a great editorial film. That is, it's a great editorial film that was tossed into a washing machine, put through the spin cycle, pulled out, beaten viciously for two hours, and then given plastic surgery courtesy of a doctor with a degree from the Polytechnic Institute of Tijuana. While watching the film, you get the feeling- a sinking, squirming feeling, that I usually associate with bad carnival food and Holocaust accounts- that all the rhetorical puzzle pieces needed to put Bush away forever are here, or could easily have been here, or may at one point have been here. The picture these pieces form, however, is sadly lacking. I don't mean "no, that shade of blue is off and that one side doesn't fit just so, that can't be the right spot" lacking, I mean "I wasn't even aware you could put side pieces in the middle of a puzzle" lacking.

The name of the movie is Farenheit 9/11, but it might as well be called "Michael Moore's super-duper secret diary of why I hate Bush", so unsurprisingly the movie begins with that most relevant event to any discussion of Septermber 11th: the 2000 Election controversy. We are treated to 15 minutes of Moore casting aspersions and conspiracy theorizing on the circumstances of Bush's victory- I know I sound dismissive, but this is only because Moore never has the guts to come out and say what he's getting at. Besides, this is all old hat for anyone who's read his book Stupid White Men. In fact, pretty much the entire first 30 minutes of the movie are just a rehash of the invective launched in the book.

Things finally start looking up immediately following this: Moore makes an excellent decision in handling the actual events of 9/11 by not showing the planes, not showing the towers, not showing any of the gruesome images that repeated viewing has desensitized us to- instead we see a black screen with audio from the first minutes, then people looking up, and then dust. Lots of dust. It works: it's powerful, and it briefly upgraded my movie-watching color code level from Green (bored- possible toenail clipping expected) to Yellow (intrigued- reports of accidentally stepping on the dog have been received from credible sources). This is probably the high point of the film- it would not have been, if Moore had given similar treatment to the next segment.

Cut to a Florida classroom, where Bush is apparently enjoying himself at a photo-op. He does know that one plane has hit at this point, but everyone still thinks it's an accident. Just as he's settling down to read the kids a story, Andrew Card comes in and whispers in Bush's ear that the country has been attacked. What follows is 5 minutes of Bush sitting in his chair, fumbling with the book, and staring intently at the classroom's back wall. This is a man who is confused, out of his depth, and clearly not the kind of guy you want running the country. This is all self-evident to anyone viewing, but Moore apparently does not agree. Instead he cuts in with one of his now-infamous snarky voiceovers, theorizing what could be going through Bush's head. This is where my knowledge and acceptance of Moore as a loudmouth left-wing propagandist began to kick into high gear psychopathic hatred of the man. Instead of allowing any of this profound sorrow, confusion, and fear from the attacks and our President's response to sink in, Moore gears up for another obnoxious round of connecting the conspiratorial dots that makes tinfoil-wearing former CIA deep cover operatives look nearly reasonable. The movie color code, so near to bumping itself up to Red (engaged- police receiving reports of shouting from concerned neighbors), now sank back to Green, with a possible slide to Blue (pissed off- innocent bystanders treated for DVD fragments embedded in their skin) in the near future.

Once the hopping game goes from Bush to Bin Laden's half brother to the Carlyle Group to Bush Sr. to the CIA to the Bin Ladens again to an old National Guard buddy of Bush to Harken Energy to Bush and finally to the fat stacks of cash all concerned are making, we're going to Iraq. 'Why' is never adequately explained beyond another snarky sarcastic jibe from Moore's increasingly obnoxious narration. What follows is a nightmarish montage of Iraqi civilian casualties, progressively more pessimistic GIs (they progress from discussing what kind of music they enjoy most during an attack to wondering why Rumsfeld won't resign), and other assorted images. This is another excellent part of the film, because the visceral impact of seeing and hearing the things you don't hear about when you see Iraq discussed on the news is like a punch in the gut. Watching an old Iraqi woman plead for God to explain why her house was bombed is, as an American, almost too much to take. It's all contrasted with platitudes given by the government which are laughably disconnected from the reality the audience is watching, except no one's laughing, especially when the camera pays a visit to the ward of a hospital containing American war wounded.

More follows, and I won't spoil it since you should see the movie no matter how much better it could have been, but I will tell you how it ends, because it is possibly the biggest let-down of all. Rather than tying everything back to 9/11, Moore instead wraps the movie up with some of his famous ambush-style questionings of American congressmen, and a string of left-wing platitudes, with the centerpiece being "a hierarchical society can only be based upon poverty and ignorance". If you correctly recognize that this ending is almost completely divorced from what you've watched for the past hour and forty five minutes, award yourself ten points as you walk out of the theater.

The problems here, and the reason I can't stand Moore right now, is that there really is a powerful movie buried in here. However, Moore instead insists on piling two or three films worth of subject matter into a rushed, stilted, conspiratorial trainwreck that even someone as predisposed to think the worst of Bush as I found off-putting. There are images and sounds of raw intensity and power in the film, but in too many instances Moore blunts their impact or negates it entirely by forcing his personality into the picture- why ridicule the Coalition of the Willing member nations when a simple review of their respective contributions would be more effective for a wider audience? Why intrude upon every single scene with an overriding need to be the clever guy who told you so? It's not fucking necessary, and it drags down what could otherwise have been a seminal film.

To bring it all full circle, the reason I cannot discuss the film without discussing Moore is because Moore has forced his personality into the film wholesale- to the point where he has become part of its essence. The problem, however, is that a movie of such incredible import for a nation, and for its political future, should stand on its own. To add insult to injury, Farenheit 9/11 could stand on its own, if only Michael Moore would let it.

[kerosene 0]

Why shouldnt people on the left put thier opinions out and say what they want?

The rights got got Bill O'reily and an entire news channel pumping out right-wing propaganda 24 hours a day, seven days a week and they've got no problem with complete fabrications. People like Micheal Moore at least give some kind of balance against that foaming at the mouth nationalism that you can hear anytime of the day, in your living room.

You can be critical of the way your countrys run without hating it, if he made a dry, academic documentry half the people talking about it probably wouldnt be interested. (not on this board, i mean in general.) Also hes a satirist he and he admits he got an agenda, unlike that prick O'reily.

Basically the film is dumbed down for the widest audience possible and if you read a real newspaper or make an effort to stay informed theres less for you to take away but hes always done that more or less.

[Gadger 0]

I liked it, found it pretty enjoyable, but took all the information in with a pinch of salt.

[Goeth 0]

Good movie, should´ve been hour or two longer.

[Major Fubar 0]

Why shouldnt people on the left put thier opinions out and say what they want?

The rights got got Bill O'reily and an entire news channel pumping out right-wing propaganda 24 hours a day, seven days a week and they've got no problem with complete fabrications.  People like Micheal Moore at least give some kind of balance against that foaming at the mouth nationalism that you can hear anytime of the day, in your living room.

You can be critical of the way your countrys run without hating it, if he made a dry, academic documentry half the people talking about it probably wouldnt be interested. (not on this board, i mean in general.)  Also hes a satirist he and he admits he got an agenda, unlike that prick O'reily.

Basically the film is dumbed down for the widest audience possible and if you read a real newspaper or make an effort to stay informed theres less for you to take away but hes always done that more or less.

^^^ This pretty much sums up exactly my feelings on the film...

[killagee 0]

I thought the film was great. It was very simple and one sided, which is good for his target audience (the general US public). While it contained nothin new for people outside the US, it was probably news to the people who are stuck with US media 24-7. If you want to read a good debate about US Hegemony since the turn of the last century (and before), then read Understanding Power by Noam Chomsky. I dont think F 9-11 is actually a documentary, where you are shown the evidence and are left to make your own opinion, but rather his own monolouge. What else could he do? Good on him. He will get very rich of this, but so would you if you could...

Personally I dont see Bush himself as the problem. Nothin will change if kerry is in power... It is lack of seperation between Business/Military(one and the same thing) and the state that is the problem. Peasants all over the world will still starve to death as their local market is undercut by subsidised US surplus.

[Donnervogel 0]

For those of you who only wish to read the first paragraph, I will continue cutting out snippets:

Don't bother, this whole thing has been posted already in the elections thread. And it won't do any good as an argument against F911. It shows that there are no major factual errors in the movie and that the movie is an opinion piece. Moore called it a 'movie editorial'. Which is exactly what it is - a very good addition to the ongoing debate. It's very biased and makes not attempt at hiding it.

While as subtle as an elephant in a china shop, Moore is exactly what America needs. Something to counter the right wing hate-propaganda (Limbaugh, Coulter..). And he does it quite well.

Foremost, the movie reflects well on America. Such an excersise in free speech shows the difference between America and a banana republic dictatorship - a distinction that has been increasingly difficult to make with Bush in power. (Although the auto-censorship of the Bush supporters is quite remarkable.)

From an international perspective, this is the best pro-American argument available today. The movie goes to show that not all Americans are like Bush. And this is a very strong point given the situation today. In Europe America is seen as the biggets threat to world peace - more dangerous than the terrorists it supposedly fights. Moore counters the bad international image of America with pointing out that the problem is with the Bush Administration and not with America per se.

And it works quite well. Bush is an easy target. From a European perspective, Bush is a religious fundamentalist responsible for the deaths of tens if not hundrends of thousands of innocent people. Moore helps decoupling the blame from America in general and pointing at Bush and his merry men.

I would recommend anybody to see the movie, not because it will change your mind but because it is a phenomenon that has stirred quite some controversy. It's about keeping yourself informed about what people are debating. Auto-censorship won't do you much good. See the movie and form an opinion of your own.

As for it's artistic qualities.. well, I'm personally not too fond of Moore's filming style. There is a good movie hidden somewhere inside, but it is often lost in the ill-timed voice-overs and a myriad of poorly done cuts etc

On the other hand, the aesthetic qualities of the movie are not the reason why you would want to watch it.

Very good posting denoir

It's pretty much what I think too.

I haven't seen the movie yet but that's only because it opens here tonight ;) So I had no chance to see it yet besides downloading the movie. But I want to see it in cinema with some friends to be able to discuss it afterwards.

[Billabong81 0]

Why shouldnt people on the left put thier opinions out and say what they want?

The rights got got Bill O'reily and an entire news channel pumping out right-wing propaganda 24 hours a day, seven days a week and they've got no problem with complete fabrications.  People like Micheal Moore at least give some kind of balance against that foaming at the mouth nationalism that you can hear anytime of the day, in your living room.

You can be critical of the way your countrys run without hating it, if he made a dry, academic documentry half the people talking about it probably wouldnt be interested. (not on this board, i mean in general.)  Also hes a satirist he and he admits he got an agenda, unlike that prick O'reily.

Basically the film is dumbed down for the widest audience possible and if you read a real newspaper or make an effort to stay informed theres less for you to take away but hes always done that more or less.

I strongly urge everyone who has these views to move to San Francisco, CA! Every single news channel here is very liberal, and Fox news isn't even brodcasted here! So come on down (or up in some cases ) to San Francisco!

[bn880 5]

That's an interesting tidbit of info to know. I never would have guessed a city in CA had media like that... (Schwartzenegger might stomp down on it soon )

[Placebo 28]

I look forward to seeing it, but I'll be sitting down viewing it as a comedy-mockumentary, if I learn something from it then great, but I'm not going to expect it to be a life changing piece of education

[soul_assassin 1745]

I've seen it,

I liked it........alot

I understood why it won Palm d'Or.

My opinion:even without this movie I could see more cons than pros about bush so even if his movie has a tidbit uncredibility in it I still say most of it is beliavable.

Some people here migh say Im biased, and that would be uttter nonsence, I have nothing against Americans, I have many american friends.....but Bush....... I just fear for the worls if a man like this has access to a case with a big red button.

[John C Flett 0]

I liked it but I don't think its Moores best. I felt that it was made very much for an American audience and didn't say much that hasn't been covered by many people in the UK already ( Bremner, Bird and Fortune in particular ).

I have no problem with the fact that the film is also as much about him as it is about Bush. Thats always been his style and I accept that. I find the guy entertaining but understand why so many people dislike him. Ce la vie.

[Sophion-Black 0]

When i saw it, it still had some 'out there' theries. some was plasable and some wern't. but the only thing that got me to the kerry side is:

Qouting from GWB

Quote[/b] ]I am a war president...

To me war is not a first line of attack/defence/intemidation, it is a last resort. This 'War' in GWB's eyes is NOT something he should be toying about. with all of us in the US, we have grown tired of 'Bastards in the black suits' runing mens lives as toys. Yes I understand that most (mabe all) US troops were in the service on will (DO NOT USE F9/11 AS A SOURCE OF REASON). BUT I also know what war can (AND WILL) do to a man. This is real life, not a game. There is a constant fear in our [uS] troops about the 'terrorist' that can pop out any second and sclice there neck wide open. Then that would be the end of it. In a way, the Desert WAR is like the Veitnam war. My opinion, F9/11 should be shown at this time. The American people have a right to know: what the hell is this guy doing? and why? This man is NUTS! WE NEED A NEW SET OF CANADITES, THEY HAVE JUST GONE TO HELL THIS YEAR!

[Pathy 0]

The thing that amuses me is that there really is no "left wing" in the US compared to other western nations.....your either totally right wing or a liberal And liberal can hardly be described as radically left wing.

[Donnervogel 0]

The thing that amuses me is that there really is no "left wing" in the US compared to other western nations.....your either totally right wing or a liberal And liberal can hardly be described as radically left wing.

Yeah. Many americans have no idea what left-wing is ;) I mean liberals here in switzerland are something in the lines of right-middle. far far away from the left wing ;)

[Pathy 0]

Exactly what i mean, its the same here in the UK.

[red oct 2]

The thing that amuses me is that there really is no "left wing" in the US compared to other western nations.....your either totally right wing or a liberal And liberal can hardly be described as radically left wing.

Yeah. Many americans have no idea what left-wing is ;) I mean liberals here in switzerland are something in the lines of right-middle. far far away from the left wing ;)

yep, thats a moderate neither truely left or right. just in between. exactly the way i like it. hell, maybe i'll move to Switzerland

[denoir 0]

The thing that amuses me is that there really is no "left wing" in the US compared to other western nations.....your either totally right wing or a liberal   And liberal can hardly be described as radically left wing.

Yeah. Many americans have no idea what left-wing is ;) I mean liberals here in switzerland are something  in the lines of right-middle. far far away from the left wing ;)

The European definition of 'liberal' is quite different from the American one. On the political scale liberals are in the middle, defending individual rights from an overambitious state (left wing) and from traditionalist dogma (right wing). Economically they are also usually in the middle.

What should be noted however is that the European right-wing is usually more left-wing than the American left-wing. Especially when it comes to social security, health care etc What the Democrats in the US have wet dreams about for the future, even our hardcore right-wingers would not dream of removing.

Bottom line is that "liberal" in it's original European meaning is not the same thing as "liberal" that Americans use.

[Guest]

I'll be sitting down viewing it as a comedy-mockumentary

It is what it is....left wing propeganda.

The description of Moore as the Left's Rush Limbaugh (sp?) is accurate. It's not to say that he isn't correct about a lot of things, but he is prone to exaggeration/over-hyping in order to sway people left of centre.....so therefore propeganda.

I think it is good to have him out there, he certainly doesn't play along with the Political/Legalese way of putting things, and has made me aware of various things (and hell, some of the stuff of the TV show was fkn funny ). But he does do himself and his cause a disservice by taking things too far/exaggerating etc. Like in Bowling FC....trying to make a link between the shootings and the nearby Lockheed factory. I mean c'mon...

[feersum.endjinn 6]

Spinsanity site has good review of Fahrenheit 9/11 weak points and questionable editing of source material.

Spinsanity - Fahrenheit 9/11: The temperature at which Michael Moore's pants burn

I'll suggest taking a look at it before you dismiss it as one of more common right-wing attacks on the movie, Spinsanity is pretty brutal against anyone using political spin and they're refreshingly non-partisan.

[billybob2002 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....moore_3

Quote[/b] ]

Michael Moore Defends Disputed Headline

Thu Aug 12, 6:34 PM ET

BLOOMINGTON, Ill. - Filmmaker Michael Moore makes no apologizes for his Bush-bashing documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11," and his lawyer says he'll make no apologies for its use of an Illinois newspaper headline, either.

The (Bloomington) Pantagraph says the headline, flashed briefly in the film, came from a letter to the editor about the 2000 presidential election recount but was doctored to look like a news story. Even the date was changed.

The newspaper fired off a letter to Moore and his production company last month that it says was lighthearted but symbolic, demanding an apology and $1 in compensatory damages.

But an attorney for Westside Productions replied this week that Moore violated no copyright laws and did nothing misleading.

"Baloney," said Pantagraph President and Publisher Henry Bird, who directed his lawyers to send a follow-up letter asking Moore to explain why material from the paper was altered without permission.

Westside Productions lawyer Devereux Chatillon acknowledged that Moore was two weeks off on the date of the headline, which read: "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election."

But the mistake "did not make a difference to the editorial point ... and was in no way detrimental to (The Pantagraph)," the New York-based attorney wrote in a letter to the paper.

"Fahrenheit 9/11," which opened in theaters in June, quickly became the first documentary to top $100 million at the domestic box office.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Panel Dismisses 'Fahrenheit 9/11' Complaint

By Steve Gorman

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A U.S. regulatory agency has dismissed the petition of a conservative advocacy group to bar TV ads for Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary as a breach of federal restrictions on "electioneering" activity.

In a unanimous decision made public on Thursday, the Federal Election Commission found no evidence that the movie's ads had broken the law or that distributors of the film intended any violations in the future.

The commission said it agreed with the recommendation of its general counsel that the FEC "cannot entertain complaints based upon mere speculation that someone might violate the law."

Moore has said he intended for the film, a blistering critique of President Bush and his conduct of the war in Iraq, to help persuade Americans vote against a second term for Bush in November.

The group Citizens United filed its complaint against the "Fahrenheit 9/11" ad campaign in June, saying TV spots for the film which then included images and sound clips of Bush would be illegal if aired after July 30.

Federal election law prohibits companies and unions from advertising for or against political candidates 60 days before an election and 30 days before a political convention.

The distributors argued that the "Fahrenheit 9/11" ads broadcast after July 30 were permissible because they focused on audience and critical reaction to the film, and that no federal candidate for public office is identified.

The distributors -- Lions Gate Films, IFC Films and the Fellowship Adventure Group spearheaded by Miramax Films co-chairman Harvey and Bob Weinstein -- issued a statement applauding the FEC ruling.

So Truth Justice and the American Way so exemplified by the film "Fahrenheit 9/11" wins another case against NeoConMen. I am glad to see the courts still have the backbone to stand up against the anti freedom actions of the NeoConMen who stole the US republican party.

Long may freedom and the US flag wave reign against the oppression of the NeoConMen.

Kind Regards Walker

[Pathy 0]

Bottom line is that "liberal" in it's original European meaning is not the same thing as "liberal" that Americans use.

Yes but what the Americans view as left wing, to us Europeans would be pretty central. Therefore, US liberal (left wing) = EU liberal (central)

As you said, our whole political spectrum is shifted to the left.

I just found it amusing that everyone against the film is bashing MM as someone who is extreme left wing, when in reality, he is hardly anywhere near.

[walker 0]

Hi All

Quote[/b] ]9/11 Commission Report Confirms Key Fahrenheit 9/11 Facts

July 23rd, 2004 12:59 pm

9/11 Commission Report Confirms Key Fahrenheit 9/11 Facts

The September 11 Commission's 567-page final report has confirmed key facts presented in Fahrenheit 9/11. These include:

Attorney General John Ashcroft told acting FBI director Thomas Pickard that he did not want to hear anything more about terrorist threats. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 265

After Bush was informed of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center, he went ahead with his classroom event. After Bush was informed that the nation was under attack after the second plane hit, Bush stayed in the classroom for nearly seven more minutes, continuing to read with the children. Confirmed, Commission Report at pp. 35, 38-39.

Bush failed to have even one meeting to discuss the threat of terrorism with his head of counterterrorism Richard Clarke. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 201.

Bush failed to react to the August 6, 2001 security briefing, “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.†Confirmed, Commission Report at pp. 260-262.

142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country after September 13. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 556, n. 25 [Note that Fahrenheit 9/11 understates the number of Saudis who left.]

Individuals were interviewed by the FBI before being allowed to leave (although the report confirms that most individuals on these flights were not interviewed.) Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 557, n. 28.

White House former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke approved these flights. Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 329.

It should also be noted that the 9/11 Commission does not address or deem important a number of other issues either addressed in Fahrenheit 9/11 or revealed since completion of the film, including:

What exactly was the rush in getting these individuals out of the country so soon after the worst attack in U.S. history, why did Saudi Royals and bin Laden family members receive such special treatment at a time when most Americans still could not get flights (even though airspace may have been open), and how exactly were the flights arranged by the U.S. government?

Several unanswered questions posed by Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND) in a July 20, 2004, Grand Forks Herald column: “At a time when 14 of the 19 terrorists from Sept. 11 were Saudi citizens, how and why were six secret flights allowed to sneak 142 Saudi citizens out of the United States in the days after Sept. 11 before they were properly interrogated? How do we know they weren't properly questioned? Because Dale Watson, the No. 2 man and former head of counterterrorism at the FBI has said none of them were subjected to ‘serious’ interrogation or questions before being allowed to leave. In fact, we now know that at least two and perhaps more of the Saudis who were allowed to leave after Sept. 11 were under investigation by the FBI for alleged terrorist connections.â€

Information that came to light in Dana Milbank’s July 22, 2004 Washington Post article, including the fact that at least one bin Laden family member who was allowed to leave lived with a nephew of Osama bin Laden, who "was involved in forming the U.S. branch of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth" (WAMY), which the FBI has described as “a suspected terrorist organization,†and that the bin Ladens flew out of the country on the same airplane that “has been chartered frequently by the White House for the press corps traveling with President Bush.â€

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/index.php?id=24

George Bush Jnr's links to the Bin Laden family are a great source of interest to the American people the fact that members of TBA have been involved in allowing two Saudis under investigation for links to terrorism were specificly whisked out of the country on the orders of TBA leaves one with the a bad tate in the the mouth.

Disturbed Walker