Us presidential election 2004

[BoweryBaker 0]

If you're undecided its important to remember the good and bad of both candidates. Bush is not a bad guy for trying to free a country of people held under tyranny. It's a risky and very predictable maneuver. Now that dictators know who we're coming after, they can deliver a horrible blow that would leave us both broke and busted. He believes in outsourcing jobs to foreigners, and that is money that belongs to Americans, i don't care how cheaper it is for the government. Kerry is known as a flip flopper and thats really bad. I'm talking indecisive leader bad. However, he does have economical plans for us such as no outsourcing. Those are the major points so far. Now, talk amongst yourselves.

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2....printer

Quote[/b] ]

Kerry Sharpens Contrast With Bush

Campaign Takes the Offensive as GOP Attacks Senator's Record

By Jim VandeHei

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, September 2, 2004; Page A01

NASHVILLE, Sept. 1 -- John F. Kerry went before an audience of thousands of veterans to accuse President Bush of creating a more dangerous world by mishandling virtually every major strategic decision he has made before and after the military invasion of Iraq.

"Terrorists have secured havens in Iraq that were not there before," the Massachusetts senator said. ". . . Violence has spread in Iraq, Iran has expanded its influence, and extremism has gained momentum."

Under fire from some in his own party for failing to draw crisp and clear differences with Bush over the war in Iraq, military service and terrorism, the Democratic nominee offered one of his sharpest and most detailed explanations of how he would have handled the conflict and its aftermath differently. "When it comes to Iraq, it's not that I would have done one thing differently, I would have done almost everything differently," Kerry told the national convention of the American Legion here.

Coming off what even his aides acknowledge has been a bad month for the candidate, Kerry is scrambling to regain momentum -- sharpening his critique of Bush's policies and shaking up his communications team to be more responsive to attacks on the Democrat and his running mate, Sen. John Edwards (N.C.).

After huddling with top staff in recent days in Nantucket, Kerry plans a more aggressive campaign style in the final two months -- starting with Wednesday's speech, aides said.

Joe Lockhart, the Clinton White House spokesman who was hired to sharpen and simplify Kerry's message, is taking a prominent, some say the preeminent, leadership role in a department largely bereft of advisers with considerable presidential-level experience. In an interview Wednesday, he promised that no attack would go unanswered.

Despite losing ground in polls, Kerry believes he has cleared the national security hurdle with most voters and plans to focus mostly on health care and the economy leading up to Nov. 2, Lockhart said. This sets the stage for the two presidential campaigns to compete on vastly different battlegrounds: Bush, staking his reelection on his ability to lead the war on terrorism; Kerry, promising more available health care and better education in exchange for higher taxes on the rich.

Kerry broke from the recent tradition of staying off the campaign trail during an opponent's political convention to speak Wednesday to the American Legion, the nation's largest veterans organization, one day after Bush addressed the same group. The president had louder and more sustained applause, but Kerry was treated politely if not enthusiastically on some points.

Beyond military service, Kerry's most aggressive case for the veterans vote centered on money. On Tuesday, the American Legion issued a statement saying Bush's proposed budget for 2004-05 falls $2.5 billion short of what the group estimates is needed to cover health programs for those who served. The Democratic nominee promised to meet, if not exceed, the American Legion's request.

Kerry said that the only aspect of the invasion on which he agreed with Bush was how swiftly and decisively the United States would win the initial war with Iraq. After that, Kerry said, Bush failed the "most solemn obligation" as commander in chief: "to make certain we had a plan to win the peace." He faulted Bush for stubbornly ignoring the advice of military commanders on the ground and politicians back home, dismissing the State Department's concerns about a postwar Iraq, and failing to secure Iraq's borders and draw in allies to relieve the burden on U.S. troops. Once inside Iraq, he said, the president botched opportunities to share responsibility with NATO or the United Nations, train indigenous Iraqi forces, safely secure prisoners of war and adequately guard nuclear waste and ammunition storage sites. Kerry said he would have not made those mistakes -- which Republicans counter is easy to say in hindsight.

The Democratic National Committee released a new ad Wednesday making a similar charge, signaling a broader effort to repair damage to Kerry's standing on national security matters.

Kerry said here that Bush now admits "he miscalculated in Iraq. In truth, his miscalculation was ignoring the advice that was given to him."

Republicans -- and some Democrats -- say Kerry has been boxed in by seemingly contradictory comments about his position on Iraq. This list includes voting to authorize the war, then criticizing it and then saying he would vote for it again; voting against spending $87 billion on the troops and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan while criticizing Bush for shortchanging service members and suggesting he might have gone to war in Iraq if he had been president during the past four years.

Kerry's criticism extended to Afghanistan and the broader war on terrorism. He lambasted Bush for saying over the weekend that the war on terrorism is unwinnable -- a statement Bush quickly reversed. "In the end, the terrorists will lose, and we will win," Kerry said. "Because the future does not belong to fear -- it belongs to freedom."

One Kerry friend, who demanded anonymity to speak candidly, said Kerry created his own problem by making his military service the centerpiece of the Democratic National Convention in July, and then failing to defend his service when it was attacked by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Some aides advised Kerry to address concerns about his military service and his war protests during Wednesday's speech, but instead, he touted the work he has done behalf of veterans.

Members of the Swift boat veterans group are shadowing Kerry across the country and showing no signs of relenting. The group, which says it has raised nearly $3 million for anti-Kerry ads, promised to hound the candidate until he apologizes for actions during and after the Vietnam War. The group greeted Kerry with another television ad condemning his antiwar testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971.

A different group, Vietnam Veterans for Truth, grabbed attention with a full-page ad in Tuesday's Tennessean faulting Kerry's actions during and the after Vietnam War. It also rented a large ballroom at the site of the convention here to distribute -- and sell -- anti-Kerry literature, books and videos. "Ain't Fonda Kerry," read one of the bumper stickers. "Kerry Lied and Good Men died," proclaimed another. Tony Snesko, one of the organizers, said more than 1,000 legionnaires have stopped by the display over the past two days. Snesko said he would close shop if Kerry "stopped the lies and apologized."

Of more concern to the Kerry campaign, first lady Laura Bush and former president George H.W. Bush said this week that the attacks on Kerry seemed like fair game. Lockhart said Kerry may respond to these charges himself in the days ahead.

While reports of a broader staff shakeup are overblown, there are many Democrats who told Kerry to elevate the role of Lockhart and Joel Johnson, another veteran of the Clinton White House who just joined the team. Kerry was also advised to reconfigure the department responsible for managing the message, arguably the most important job in politics -- dominated by round-the-clock media coverage. One Democrat said James Carville, Clinton's top strategist, is urging the campaign to bring on Paul Begala, who worked with Carville, in a senior position to help with message and strategy. Begala is a Kerry friend who already informally advises the campaign.

Several Kerry friends privately told the candidate to quit micromanaging smaller details, such as speeches, which he spends a lot of time writing and refining on the road. The Kerry campaign is getting tagged with a criticism that haunted Al Gore in 2000: It spends too much time reacting to polls and focus groups. The target of some of that criticism is Bob Shrum, who was a senior strategist for Gore.

There is disagreement inside the campaign over who is to blame for the belated response to the attacks on the Kerry's war service. Kerry has told some Democratic friends he wanted to strike back hard weeks ago, but several advisers talked him out of it because polls and focus groups showed a negative response could backfire. Yet one aide said Kerry privately conceded that he, like most of his top staff, miscalculated the impact of the attacks by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and the influence of 24-hour cable news in shaping public opinion, and thought the controversy would blow over. One Kerry friend said the candidate focuses on more traditional news outlets and lacks a sophisticated understanding of modern media. "You would think he would have recognized this five years ago," the friend said.

Do not vote for Kerry!!!! Vote Bush to help my post count and Bush will turn the deficits around like Clinton did!!!!! (FYI Clinton first four years had deficits)

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bush is not a bad guy for trying to free a country of people held under tyranny.

Umm...he is a bad guy because of that, as it is no less then the third reason TBA has given for going into Iraq. First it was Al Queda. Then it was WMDs. Now its to bring freedom to all.

Which is it? Either they are lying, or they really had no clue what they were doing, and the end result to date testifies to that much at least.

It is bad, when you bring freedom via a laser guided 2000lb bomb smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in the vague hope that the enemy leader will be there.

Well now those residents have the "freedom" of the afterlife.

Quote[/b] ]He believes in outsourcing jobs to foreigners, and that is money that belongs to Americans, i don't care how cheaper it is for the government.

I don't think he believes in out-sourcing, but to date he has done nothing to stop it. Kerry at least does indeed have a plan of tax-breaks for those that don't out-source. And corporations do love their tax-breaks so.

Quote[/b] ]Kerry is known as a flip flopper and thats really bad. I'm talking indecisive leader bad.

I must have missed this. I know everyone says he is a flip-flopper, but please enlighten me as to what exactly he has flip-flopped on (senate votes, issues, etc.). And no this isn't some elaborate ploy. I really want to know.

EDIT: And no I don't think Kerry is an angel, and I don't think Bush is Satan incarnate (maybe Lil' Satan, Jr.). But given my choices, I vote Kerry as I guarentee Bush requires only 4 more years to fully blow the world up.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I must have missed this. I know everyone says he is a flip-flopper, but please enlighten me as to what exactly he has flip-flopped on (senate votes, issues, etc.). And no this isn't some elaborate ploy. I really want to know

*Starts to fish*

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Politics/tapper_kerry_040319.html

Quote[/b] ]

Conducting the interview on CBS, Los Angeles Times D.C. bureau chief Doyle McManus asked Kerry, if his amendment "does not pass, will you then vote against the $87 billion?"

Kerry's full response is as follows: "I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to — to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running," he says. "That's irresponsible. What is responsible is for the administration to do this properly now."

"But I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves," he says. "We're not going to cut and run and not do the job."

"Look, we could — we could do this job over a period of time at greater loss, at greater risk, and with much loss around the world with respect to the United States," Kerry concludes. "The question is will we do this the best way possible so that we do the best to protect our troops and the best to advance the safety and security of the United States?"

Edit:

Quote[/b] ]It is bad, when you bring freedom via a laser guided 2000lb bomb smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in the vague hope that the enemy leader will be there.

Care to discuss your thoughts on World War 2....(do not discuss)

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]*Starts to fish*

]http://abcnews.go.com/section....]

I must be missing it. Where is he flip-flopping? Voting against an unwise spending bill? There was no way the troops weren't going to get what they needed....

Unless of course the amendment passed, in which case the White House threatened to VETO it. Does that seem a little more threatening then a mere "No" vote?

Quote[/b] ]are to discuss your thoughts on World War 2....(do not discuss)

I hope you are not seriously trying to compare the two.

EDIT: I love the smell of screwed up tags in the evening.

[Yagyu Retsudo 0]

I couldnt, like many other people, care who gets elected in the US election.... as long as it is not Bush.

Kerry is by no means perfect or amazing. However, he is infinitely better than that war-mongering, crusading moron.

Its something we have discussed a few times over here (in the UK) - how anyone in their right mind could possibly vote for Bush. I have not met anyone personally from the UK that would.

Thats not to say that sometimes Bush is somewhat unfairly 'demonised' - but seriously, he is both incredibly stupid and started a war for no good reason.

[blackdog~ 0]

Quote[/b] ]Since I last stood in this spot, a whole new generation of the Miller Family has been born: Four great grandchildren.

Along with all the other members of our close-knit family, they are my and Shirley's most precious possessions.

And I know that's how you feel about your family also. Like you, I think of their future, the promises and the perils they will face.

Like you, I believe that the next four years will determine what kind of world they will grow up in.

And like you, I ask which leader is it today that has the vision, the willpower and, yes, the backbone to best protect my family?

The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight. For my family is more important than my party.

There is but one man to whom I am willing to entrust their future and that man's name is George Bush.

In the summer of 1940, I was an 8-year-old boy living in a remote little Appalachian valley. Our country was not yet at war, but even we children knew that there were some crazy men across the ocean who would kill us if they could.

President Roosevelt, in his speech that summer, told America "all private plans, all private lives, have been in a sense repealed by an overriding public danger."

In 1940, Wendell Wilkie was the Republican nominee.

And there is no better example of someone repealing their "private plans" than this good man. He gave Roosevelt the critical support he needed for a peacetime draft, an unpopular idea at the time.

And he made it clear that he would rather lose the election than make national security a partisan campaign issue.

Shortly before Wilkie died, he told a friend, that if he could write his own epitaph and had to choose between "here lies a president" or "here lies one who contributed to saving freedom," he would prefer the latter.

Where are such statesmen today?

Where is the bipartisanship in this country when we need it most?

Now, while young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrat's manic obsession to bring down our Commander in Chief.

What has happened to the party I've spent my life working in?

I can remember when Democrats believed that it was the duty of America to fight for freedom over tyranny.

It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city.

Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. But not today.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. And, our soldiers don't just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home.

For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag.

No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home.

But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution.

They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.

It is not their patriotism -- it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking. They claimed Carter's pacifism would lead to peace.

They were wrong.

They claimed Reagan's defense buildup would lead to war.

They were wrong.

And, no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

Together, Kennedy/Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that is now winning the War on Terror.

Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security but Americans need to know the facts.

The B-1 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, dropped 40 percent of the bombs in the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The B-2 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Hussein's command post in Iraq.

The F-14A Tomcats, that Senator Kerry opposed, shot down Khadifi's Libyan MIGs over the Gulf of Sidra. The modernized F-14D, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered missile strikes against Tora Bora.

The Apache helicopter, that Senator Kerry opposed, took out those Republican Guard tanks in Kuwait in the Gulf War. The F-15 Eagles, that Senator Kerry opposed, flew cover over our Nation's Capital and this very city after 9/11.

I could go on and on and on: against the Patriot Missile that shot down Saddam Hussein's scud missiles over Israel; against the Aegis air-defense cruiser; against the Strategic Defense Initiative; against the Trident missile; against, against, against.

This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?

U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric.

Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside.

Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending.

I want Bush to decide.

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.

That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world.

Free for how long?

For more than 20 years, on every one of the great issues of freedom and security, John Kerry has been more wrong, more weak and more wobbly than any other national figure.

As a war protester, Kerry blamed our military.

As a Senator, he voted to weaken our military. And nothing shows that more sadly and more clearly than his vote this year to deny protective armor for our troops in harms way, far away.

George Bush understands that we need new strategies to meet new threats.

John Kerry wants to re-fight yesterday's war. George Bush believes we have to fight today's war and be ready for tomorrow's challenges. George Bush is committed to providing the kind of forces it takes to root out terrorists.

No matter what spider hole they may hide in or what rock they crawl under.

George Bush wants to grab terrorists by the throat and not let them go to get a better grip.

From John Kerry, they get a "yes-no-maybe" bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends.

I first got to know George Bush when we served as governors together. I admire this man. I am moved by the respect he shows the first lady, his unabashed love for his parents and his daughters, and the fact that he is unashamed of his belief that God is not indifferent to America.

I can identify with someone who has lived that line in "Amazing Grace," "Was blind, but now I see," and I like the fact that he's the same man on Saturday night that he is on Sunday morning.

He is not a slick talker but he is a straight shooter and, where I come from, deeds mean a lot more than words.

I have knocked on the door of this man's soul and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel.

The man I trust to protect my most precious possession: my family.

This election will change forever the course of history, and that's not any history. It's our family's history.

The only question is how. The answer lies with each of us. And, like many generations before us, we've got some hard choosing to do.

Right now the world just cannot afford an indecisive America. Fainthearted self-indulgence will put at risk all we care about in this world.

In this hour of danger our President has had the courage to stand up. And this Democrat is proud to stand up with him.

Thank you.

God Bless this great country and God Bless George W. Bush.

-Zell Miller (D)

If only McCain and Miller could be running mates.

[Bernadotte 0]

Last night's speech by Democratic Senator Zell Miller was an unbelievably vicious attack against Kerry that leaves me wondering how much he got paid to be there.  Here's one of the more provocative excerpts:

Quote[/b] ]Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.  And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.  Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.  Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.  Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

And from a transcript of Farenheit 9/11:

Quote[/b] ]REPORTER: Officials they see evidence that Sunni and Shiite extremists might be joining forces.

PRESIDENT BUSH: They're not happy they're occupied. I wouldn't be happy if I were occupied either.

Clearly, Zell Miller is an ass.  

[walker 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you new anything about this which you clearly do not. Then you would know that the forward base for the swift boats was a t a place called Ha Tien and that is right on the border of Cambodia and vietnam. Using your own links http://brownwater-navy.com/vietnam/Ha_Tien.htm

It says the base often came under attack

No, at the time of Kerry's Christmas story, and according to the area commander of PBRs, Swift Boats were not operating in the area and would have been stopped had they been close to the border. Also, I see that you still haven't paid attention to Kerry's own claim that he spend Christmas in the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border. Walker, if you had any honor, courage or moral fibre you would answer the claim Kerry made in Tour Of Duty. And as a side note, you don't provide any evidence of when those pictures were taken. I just used that site to get a picture of a Swift Boat, irregardless of location or timing.

Hi m21man

You said that no Swift boats patrolled the border of Cambodia and made incursions into Cambodian waters yet I have posted on several pages testimony's and official documents that prove your statement to be a lie.

In fact the first incursions by swift boats occurred in October. I quote from REAL veterans sites and the official Navy Historical record not some political mythical fantasist or downright liar from the swift political fantasy site.

Check out the SEALORDS history.

http://www.history.navy.mil/seairland/chap4.htm

From a Real Veteran's Site not a political site

Quote[/b] ]Ha Tien was perhaps the first forward location to be utilized as a base for supporting Swift Boat operations aimed at interdiction in the South Vietnam rivers close to the Cambodian border. It was, however, originally set up as a very temporary stopping point for crew rest by Swifts on Operation Market Time patrols in the Gulf of Siam away from the primary base at An Thoi.

On October 14 1968, shortly after Admiral Zumwalt conceived of SEALORDS, Swift Boat OinC Mike Bernique was informed by local Vietnamese at Ha Tien that the VC had set up a tax collection site a few miles up the Giang Thanh River from Ha Tien.

Even though it was strictly forbidden by the Rules of Engagement for Swift Boats to operate that far up the rivers, Mike proceeded to follow up on this lead and investigated. He discovered the tax collection site and a fire fight ensued. This resulted in five enemy KIA's and the collection of weapons, ammunition, supplies and documents left behind by the fleeing communists.

Mike was called to Saigon to explain his unauthorized conduct and to answer a diplomatic protest by Cambodian Prince Sihanouk that he had fired across the border into that supposed neutral country. Facing possible disiplinary actions, he answered Admiral Zumwalt's questions with an emphatic "Tell Sihanouk he's a lying SOB."

The Admiral declared that Bernique was exactly the kind of aggressive skipper he was looking for and awarded him a Silver Star instead of a general court marshal.

From that point forward, the Giang Thanh became known as "Bernique's Creek"

Eventually, patrols were augmented throughout the length of the Giang Thanh River and extended from its northeastern head along the Vinh Te Canal to the east all the way to the western bank of the Bassac river. Interdiction operations included not only Swift Boats, but also PBRs (Patrol Boat River) and units of the Navy's Mobile Riverine Force.

http://www.pcf45.com/sealords/hatien/hatien.html

News paper article from the time:

http://www.rivervet.com/images/slingshotarticle2.jpg

taken from this site where you can read more about some of the missions. http://www.rivervet.com/opsling2.htm

That some of this was covert but now unclassified is well known to all but you it would seem. It was in fact the kernel of truth behind the Apocalypse Now film.

The Giang Thanh River runs from Ha Tien at the entrance in the Gulf of Siam East of An Thoi up the Cambodian border to the mekong via Canals as is described in the official record and the Veterans sites I have given. much of the area is delta with thousands of tributaries on both sides of the border.

Quote[/b] ]In early November 1968, PBRs and Riverine Assault Craft opened two canals between the Gulf of Siam at Rach Gia and the Bassac River at Long Xuyen in an operation labeled Search Turn. Vietnamese paramilitary ground troops helped US Naval patrol units secure the transportation routes in this operational area.

Later in the month, in operation Foul Deck, Swift Boats, PBRs, Riverine Assault Craft, and Vietnamese naval vessels penetrated the Giang Thanh River-Vinh Te Canal system, north of Search Turn and nearer to the Cambodian border, to establish patrols all along that waterway from Ha Tien on the Gulf of Siam to Chau Doc on the upper Bassac.

Then in December, against heavy enemy opposition, U.S. Naval forces pushed up the Vam Co Dong (Vam Co East) and Vam Co Tay (Vam Co West) Rivers west of Saigon to cut infiltration routes on either side and south of the "Parrot's Beak" area of Cambodia. This Giant Slingshot operation, so named for the Y-shape of the confluence of the two rivers on a map, severely hampered Communist resupply in the region near the capital and in the Plain of Reeds.

Completing the first phase of the SEALORDS program, in January 1969, PBRs, Assault Support Patrol Boats (ASPB), and other river craft established patrol sectors along canals westward from the Vam Co Tay River over to the Mekong River in operation Barrier Reef.

So by the end of the first four months of SEALORDS, a patrolled waterway interdiction barrier had been established that extended almost uninterrupted from Tay Ninh northwest of Saigon all the way to the Gulf of Siam at Ha Tien and Rach Gia.

http://www.pcf45.com/sealords/sealords.htm

The very man who is head of the swift boats fantasy site you are quoting said he had been in Cambodia to President Nixon and it is on tape thus later proving himself a liar when he denied that the Swift boats entered Cambodia.

So we are left with your glorious "but he was not there on Christmas day" so what! You miss two important facts 1) that he was there patrolling that river that if you care to look at a map goes all the way to the Cambodian border that links via canal and goes all the way from the Mekong to the coast at Ha Tien along Cambodian border. 2) that swift boats were actively patrolling the Cambodian border from November through to January it is there on the official record. It was called operation SEALORDS. This the area of Operations

Note the river running all the way Chau Doc to Ha Tien and all the cannals.

This is the official record not some swift fantasy that we can all see is a LIE.

m21man: If you have any honor, courage or moral fiber at all you must condemn this lie and apologies for your supporting it.

The plane fact is that George Bush Junior is a Vietnam War Dodger from his own mouth and his own NG records, and that he is one who video and historical record has shown will freeze in an emergency, dither in command and attack the wrong foe in retribution.

The plane fact is John F. Kerry is a Vietnam War Hero and is proven in battle to be able to command in an emergency.

Quote[/b] ]December 24, 1968 Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html

It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Commander in Chief.

It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Leading the Nation

It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

Kind Regards Walker

[blackdog~ 0]

It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Commander in Chief.

Nope.

It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Leading the Nation.

You wish.

It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

Don't count on it.

We're at war, Kerry is a pansy-girly man. He'll have our soldiers playing dollhouse instead of training in the MOUT facilities, and even if he did, he'd have 'em using spitballs and/or spudguns.

"Kind Regards" blackdog

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I must be missing it. Where is he flip-flopping? Voting against an unwise spending bill? There was no way the troops weren't going to get what they needed....

Unless of course the amendment passed, in which case the White House threatened to VETO it. Does that seem a little more threatening then a mere "No" vote?

Senator Biden, co-sponsor of that amendment, voted "yes" in the end and gave a comment:

Quote[/b] ]"the cost of failure in Iraq would far exceed the price of peace."

Kerry goes on rant saying that the troops should not be abandoned and recklessly leave without ammo to defend themsleves. The bill had provisions in it for that (ammo and etc.) and still voted No. Furthermore, that amendment from what I have seen deal with who was going to pay it (roll back some of the tax cuts) (source: http://kerry.senate.gov/low/record.cfm?id=211793 ).

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Commander in Chief.

    No it's not. It is obvious however that he's a flip flopping scum bag who rides through life on something he may or may not have done30 years ago.

Quote[/b] ]It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Leading the Nation

   This statement is redundant. It states the same thing as the first quote.

Quote[/b] ]It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

    Most likely yes. Four to eight years of undesicive leadership and indecision to come. I only hope the United States still exist when his reign is over. Our pledge of allegiance will probably end up being to the flag of the UN.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]So we are left with your glorious "but he was not there on Christmas day" so what!

I love you, Walker!!! Your posts are seared in my memory... .

[Bernadotte 0]

Our pledge of allegiance will probably end up being to the flag of the UN.

Are you on drugs, dude?  

Or is this just some sort of weird paranoid fantasy humour you're trying out on us?

I'll bet half of Billybob's post count that you are wrong.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I hope you are not seriously trying to compare the two

No, but you posted:

Quote[/b] ]It is bad, when you bring freedom via a laser guided 2000lb bomb smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in the vague hope that the enemy leader will be there.

Good damn it!!! I cannot put words to what I'm thinking about...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'll bet half of Billybob's post count that you are wrong

[walker 0]

Hi All

George Bush Junior

The plane fact is that George Bush Junior is a Vietnam War Dodger from his own mouth

Quote[/b] ]He told one reporter, "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4114162/

and his own NG records, http://www.glcq.com/ Reveal he was AWOL and that he and his spokespeople have lied.

Quote[/b] ]BUSH’S LIES ABOUT “MAKING UP†FOR THE TRAINING HE WAS SUPPOSED TO PERFORM

The recent release of the “missing†payroll records from George W. Bush’s tenure in the Texas Air National Guard confirm that Bush did not show up for any of his mandatory training for five straight months.

For the past four years, Bush[1] and his spokesmen[2] have insisted that he “made up some missed weekends from that period.†But the data found in Bush’s payroll records directly contradict these claims. Instead, those payroll records prove that Bush never made up one single period of the training he was required to perform each month from May-September 1972.

The proof that Bush and his spokespeople have been lying about “making up†the required training is found in the “transaction data†at the bottom of Bush’s quarterly payroll reports.

http://glcq.com/missed_weekends.htm

On 9/11 George Bush Junior the Vietnam War Dodger on video and in historical record has been shown:

1) will freeze in an emergency

2) dither in command

3) attack the wrong foe in retribution.

John F.Kerry

The plane fact is John F. Kerry is a Vietnam War Hero and is proven in battle to be able to command in an emergency.

Quote[/b] ]December 24, 1968 Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html

It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Commander in Chief.

It is obvious that John F. Kerry is the better person for Leading the Nation

It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

Kind Regards Walker

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

Then your mysterious fortune-telling powers are truly mystifying, because they're predicting what many polls are saying is not obvious.

Quote[/b] ]He told one reporter, "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes."

He at least served. Besides, if serving in the military was a guarantee of victory, then Bush Sr. would have won in 1992 and then we would have had two terms from Bob Dole.

Quote[/b] ]3) attack the wrong foe in retribution.

Afghanistan ? That was the invasion triggered by the 9/11 attacks.

Quote[/b] ]The plane fact is John F. Kerry is a Vietnam War Hero and is proven in battle to be able to command in an emergency.

Yeah, and Richard Nixon served in combat too. You'll notice how combat service predicted the course of his presidency, still thought of as one of the most honest in history (Sorry, I'm off to go howl with laughter).

[walker 0]

Hi m21man

I refer you to my earlier post you still have not apologised for supporting a lie.

If you had read my post you just quoted it makes it clear from the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior's NG payroll records that he did not serve he was in fact AWOL.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

That speech was Bush's best speech ever...

[sputnik monroe 102]

I just want to ask you one thing walker, heck any of you "Kerrys a hero!" people. Who were you rooting for in 1996 to win? Clinton the draft dodging liar, or Bob Dole the War hero?

    I love all the Clinton philes I speak to who spout out crap like "Bush is a liar and a draft dodger! Kerrys a war hero!" yet the two faced hypocrites voted for Clinton in 96 and not Dole.

    You know Walker I am sick to death of hearing about Kerrys war record. It seems to be the only thing he has going for him. Screw him, all he has to his name is something he did 30 years ago. Keep in mind Benedict Arnold was a war hero to, he later turned out to be one of the biggest traitors in our nations history.

    If I ever meet Kerry I'll spit in his face. He's no hero.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I just want to ask you one thing walker, heck any of you "Kerrys a hero!" people. Who were you rooting for in 1996 to win? Clinton the draft dodging liar, or Bob Dole the War hero?

I love all the Clinton philes I speak to who spout out crap like "Bush is a liar and a draft dodger! Kerrys a war hero!" yet the two faced hypocrites voted for Clinton in 96 and not Dole.

You know Walker I am sick to death of hearing about Kerrys war record. It seems to be the only thing he has going for him. Screw him, all he has to his name is something he did 30 years ago. Keep in mind Benedict Arnold was a war hero to, he later turned out to be one of the biggest traitors in our nations history.

If I ever meet Kerry I'll spit in his face. He's no hero.

Are you Zell's son...

[billybob2002 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm...._text_1

^^^

Da Speech...

[Yagyu Retsudo 0]

I watched the speech. I was disgusted.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]I refer you to my earlier post you still have not apologised for supporting a lie.

John Kerry has stated that he did not spend Christmas in Cambodia. Can you read that, or do you need it in Size 10 Bold letters ?