Us presidential election 2004

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

All right Walker, you're on. If Kerry wins, you get my entire post count at the time that the results are called in. If Bush wins, I get your entire post count at the time results are called in. Want to play?

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]It is obvious that John F. Kerry will be the next President of the United States of America.

All right Walker, you're on. If Kerry wins, you get my entire post count at the time that the results are called in. If Bush wins, I get your entire post count at the time results are called in. Want to play?

LOL!

Get serious!

The loser has to leave the following in his sig for 3 months:

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'>The best man won.</span>

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]The loser has to leave the following in his sig for 3 months:

The best man won.

Sure, I'll agree to do that

Quote[/b] ]Get serious!

Perhaps we can make an "Official Political Post-Betting Thread"

It'll help keep track of all of Billybob's bets...

[m21man 0]

Here's a shining example of how Kerry uses his 35-year-old service as a shield to protect him from accusations about his political career:

Quote[/b] ]...Cheney launched a withering attack on Kerry on Wednesday night at the convention, saying he had a "habit of indecision" that would jeopardize national security, that he failed to grasp the dangers of terrorism, refused to support U.S. troops on the battlefield in Iraq and voted outside the mainstream during his 20 years in the Senate...

..."We all saw the anger and distortion of the Republican Convention," Kerry said. "The vice president even called me unfit for office last night. I guess I'll leave it up to the voters whether five deferments makes someone more qualified to defend this nation than two tours of duty." ...

Total Article is here

Notice how Cheney criticizes Kerry's voting/speech record (A rather strong indicator of what Kerry would do in office), but Kerry responds by basically saying "Ah'm a veteran, he ain't."

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Notice how Cheney criticizes Kerry's voting/speech record (A rather strong indicator of what Kerry would do in office), but Kerry responds by basically saying "Ah'm a veteran, he ain't."

Kerry should not have be talking about deferments because he was denied one (I know but he enlisted after getting denied). Anyway, was that a military man leading the group to kick out the first person?

Quote[/b] ]I watched the speech. I was disgusted.

How were you disgusted? I think the story of those Iraqis was powerful. He gave Clinton some "respect". He focused on his "strong" points. He talked about what he will do if elected again. Took pot shots at Kerry. Gave respect to the countries that supported him. Joked about himself. This was probably the best political speech he has giving.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]Notice how Cheney criticizes Kerry's voting/speech record (A rather strong indicator of what Kerry would do in office), but Kerry responds by basically saying "Ah'm a veteran, he ain't."

   That's exactly what I'm talking about. Every thing goes back to "I'm a veteran what have you done!".

   The guy reminds me of some washed out pathetic loser. You know the type that wont shut up about the one great deed they did way back when they were young. "I nailed Jenny Mcjennerson at the senior prom back in 76, I was the man.".  Yeah who gives a flying you know what. Name something worth while you've done recently loser.

    Next time Kerry says "Reporting for duty" or "I'm a veteran" I'm gong to puke my digestive tract out onto the floor and die in total disgust.

    Supremely tired of it all,

                                    Sputnik Monroe

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/03/kerry.reax.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]

Kerry says Bush 'unfit to lead this nation'

Slams GOP ticket for avoiding Vietnam service

Friday, September 3, 2004 Posted: 12:41 AM EDT (0441 GMT)

SPRINGFIELD, Ohio (AP) -- Fighting back, Democratic Sen. John Kerry called President Bush "unfit to lead this nation" because of the war in Iraq and his record on jobs, health care and energy prices. He lashed out Thursday at Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney for avoiding service in the Vietnam War.

"I will not have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and who misled America into Iraq," he said to a crowd of hundreds at a midnight rally.

Cheney and Sen. Zell Miller, D-Georgia, led a chorus of Republicans who challenged Kerry's credentials to be commander in chief, arguing that although they respect his decorated Vietnam War service, his 20-year voting record in the Senate on national security issues made him unfit for the nation's top job.

Kerry answered his critics with a blistering statement.

"For the past week, they attacked my patriotism and even my fitness to serve as commander in chief," Kerry said. "Here is my answer to them. I will not have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and who misled America into Iraq."

Bush served stateside in the Texas Air National Guard. Cheney received five deferments and never served in the military.

Kerry also said that he and his running mate, North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, would be "hitting the road across America's heartland" describing their plans to move the nation in a new direction.

"We'll go out and talk with Americans in towns across Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan. And because a stronger America begins at home, we'll talk about our plan to create jobs, cut taxes for the middle class, lower health care costs, and make America safer and more secure."

Earlier Thursday, Edwards accused Republicans of using their convention to assail Kerry rather than offer ideas for solving the nation's most pressing problems.

The GOP spent "all of their time and all of their energy trying to tear down a patriot," Edwards told a town-hall audience in the Philadelphia suburb of Norristown, Pennsylvania.

"The anger we heard from Senator Miller, the anger we heard from the vice president -- anger is not going to change this country and do what needs to be done for America," Edwards said. Where was the "anger and venom" about the millions of Americans who had lost their health insurance or their jobs? he asked.

"It doesn't surprise me that the vice president of the United States spent most of his speech talking about John Kerry because you know he doesn't want to talk about what they've done to this country," the North Carolina senator said.

Edwards later traveled to Springfield to join Kerry at the late-night rally. The campaign appearance began begin moments after the Republican convention concluded in New York, part of the Democrats' effort to trim the GOP's post-convention momentum. (Special Report: America Votes 2004, the Republican convention)

In Pennsylvania, Edwards described last month's Democratic convention in Boston as a positive gathering in which the party laid out its agenda and vision for the country. By comparison, the Republicans have devoted "all of their time and all of their energy trying to tear down a patriot," he said, reminding the audience that just a few years ago Miller had called Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War veteran, a patriot.

Edwards also made the rounds of Thursday morning talk shows to respond to the criticism of Kerry, calling it "completely over the top."

On CBS's "The Early Show," Edwards mocked Cheney for saying "the black market network that supplied nuclear weapons technology to Libya, as well as to Iran and North Korea, has been shut down."

"He said that with a straight face on the same day that the Iranians themselves were declaring that they were moving forward with their nuclear weapons development program," Edwards said.

Kerry is proving he can not stand up in what he believes (indecisive). He talked about he wil stilll vote "YES" to give authority to Bush even knowing what he knows now. However, he just comes out saying Bush mislead US in to Iraq. Would that not be a "NO" vote ( ). Edwards needs to shut up because Kerry (I mean Edwards...) has said that they would allow Iran to keep their nuclear reactors to produce power for homes and they (Iran) would have to agree to Kerry's demands (give up bomb-making nuclear fuel and etc.). Clinton tried something similar with the North Koreans and look what happened.

Anyway, the job numbers coming out in the morning...

ewww... 2:00 AM

[ralphwiggum 6]

I just want to ask you one thing walker, heck any of you "Kerrys a hero!" people. Who were you rooting for in 1996 to win? Clinton the draft dodging liar, or Bob Dole the War hero?

funny you brought this up. now that the table has turned, you don't see GOP supporting Kerry for his outstanding miliatry service, especially compared to that of Bush's

[ralphwiggum 6]

How were you disgusted? I think the story of those Iraqis was powerful. He gave Clinton some "respect". He focused on his "strong" points. He talked about what he will do if elected again. Took pot shots at Kerry.

GAve Clinton respect. how nice. wasn't it the same Bush and his staff that tried to walk into recession, calling it created by Clinton, blame 911 on Clinton?

Quote[/b] ] Gave respect to the countries that supported him. Joked about himself. This was probably the best political speech he has giving.

yeah he didn't stutter.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]GAve Clinton respect. how nice. wasn't it the same Bush and his staff that tried to walk into recession, calling it created by Clinton, blame 911 on Clinton?

Manufacturing jobs were in decline for nearly three years before Bush entered. Everything was not peachy when Bush took over.

[SpecOp9 1]

I don't know how you guys know all this stuff, lol.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Manufacturing jobs were in decline for nearly three years before Bush entered. Everything was not peachy when Bush took over.

but when Bush took over it went worse.

http://www.bls.gov/iag/manufacturing.htm

[theavonlady 2]

I don't know how you guys know all this stuff, lol.

They have Kerry and Bush on the other line, feeding them replies.

[theavonlady 2]

Manufacturing jobs were in decline for nearly three years before Bush entered. Everything was not peachy when Bush took over.

but when Bush took over it went worse.

http://www.bls.gov/iag/manufacturing.htm

Oh, let's forget about the stock market and hitech industry bubbles bursting, destroying thousands of businesses, jobs and consumer confidence and spending. It's irrelevant.

Or is it Bush's fault, too?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Manufacturing jobs were in decline for nearly three years before Bush entered. Everything was not peachy when Bush took over.

but when Bush took over it went worse.

http://www.bls.gov/iag/manufacturing.htm

Oh, let's forget about the stock market and hitech industry bubbles bursting, destroying thousands of businesses, jobs and consumer confidence and spending. It's irrelevant.

Or is it Bush's fault, too?

my argument was that although Billy might have an argument, he is not looking at bigger picture.

currently, the Bush campaign says

http://www.georgewbush.com/Record/Economy.aspx

Quote[/b] ]“America’s economy is getting stronger. I am optimistic about our future, not only because of what I see today, but because of what I know we have overcome.â€

yes, it is getting stronger, but not good enough.

Quote[/b] ]What are you doing to help manufacturers specifically?

President Bush recognizes that the manufacturing sector has been especially hard hit.

LOL. how about that. the campaign recognizes that they screwed up in manufacturing sector.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]What are you doing to help manufacturers specifically?

President Bush recognizes that the manufacturing sector has been especially hard hit.

LOL. how about that. the campaign recognizes that they screwed up in manufacturing sector.

Welcome to the global economic world, Ralph.

[Yagyu Retsudo 0]

Quote[/b] ]I watched the speech. I was disgusted.

How were you disgusted? I think the story of those Iraqis was powerful. He gave Clinton some "respect". He focused on his "strong" points. He talked about what he will do if elected again. Took pot shots at Kerry. Gave respect to the countries that supported him. Joked about himself. This was probably the best political speech he has giving.

Why was I disgusted?

He blamed others for things that were almost entirely his fault, claimed good things that had nothing to do with him to be entirely due to his leadership, bragged about his war crimes, brought up his crazy personal beliefs several times, went on about how America is the best at everything, ever, compared his crimes with the liberation of Europe, went on about the crusade thing he has going where America is the white knight out to put down the infidels like it was a good thing, bragged about enforcing his favourite government onto other nations, spoke a lot of shit about what is and is not in the bible (eg 'stopped the sin of slavery' - Slavery is not a sin, and is condoned by the Bible.) And then started a name calling contest with his rival- no substance, just name calling.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]What are you doing to help manufacturers specifically?

President Bush recognizes that the manufacturing sector has been especially hard hit.

LOL. how about that. the campaign recognizes that they screwed up in manufacturing sector.

Welcome to the global economic world, Ralph.

tell that to GOP lawmakers who want higher tariffs and trade barriers.

i'm off ot bed(12:20 am here in LA)

[Donnervogel 0]

Kerry is proving he can not stand up in what he believes (indecisive). He talked about he wil stilll vote "YES" to give authority to Bush even knowing what he knows now. However, he just comes out saying Bush mislead US in to Iraq. Would that not be a "NO" vote ( ).

1. He - as many of his fellow members of the congress (?) and most citizens - was (as he and you said) mislead into the war. Bush and his gang spilled all the media with spooky lies of Iraqi WMD and how dangerous Saddam was to the world and the US. As we know now it was just rubbish talk to attack Iraq harum-scarum.

Based on the situation back then with the US still trying to get over the shock of 9/11 and the Bush propaganda it was clear that many politicians from all sides stood behind Bush. And they were praised by Bush and his gang back then for their honor and patriotism for that.

So if you read again what Kerry said you will maybe notice why he uses the word "mislead". Because that's what Bush did. Bush exaggerated the crisis with lies and unchecked information and massive propaganda that disorted reality in a way that many people were "mislead" into wrong believes. And in such an enviroment and an almost McCarty era hunt for "unpatriotic" people this was only normal.

2. The republican party is displaying someone changing his views on a topic as weak. Joking about it is what I consider as weak. There aren't many qualities such honorable as a person being able to change his views if it recognizes that it was mistaken. It is a very unique virtue in these days when archievements of noble spirits are destroyed and the decay of moral is forced.

In my view this issue is the biggest strengh of John Kerry. And people making jokes about it only display their narrow minded foulness.

3. I am no Kerry fan. I just consider him the lesser of two evils.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Oh that is realy awesome. Now the hot season of the pre-election time has started. I can feel it in any american newssource, I can smell it in any semi-political forum. People getting more extreme, more insultive, more demagogic, more extremist and more and more angry. Awesome to watch that..

In some forums the threads read like:

Kerry xxx coward xxx

Gay libs...

Bush shelters saudi terorist....

war on teror is republicans duty

....veterans for Bush

...veterans pro Kerry

...european terorist-sympathisers wish Kerry to win

...

You think they pay people to campaign online and promote either side in forums?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]You think they pay people to campaign online and promote either side in forums?

Sure they do.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]You think they pay people to campaign online and promote either side in forums?

Sure they do.

Maybe you're just underqualified, Albert.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I can do better    wait up

Quote[/b] ]Bush or Kerry

I am a WWII vet, 83 years old, fought 6 campaigns against the Krauts from Italy to Berchtesgaden with the 3rd Infantry Division.

I opposed going to war with the Muslims, a job which Bush's father failed to complete. The WMD were never found because they didn't exist. One thousand American soldiers have been KIA, Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" in a big TV extravanganza and the War had just begun! Bush is not a vet. He never fought in a War for his country. He has turned the rest of the World against us and wants another 4 years of the same. He avoided real military service, has created tremendous federal deficits and is interested only in his political future. Our former allies have turned against us. Bush has got to go for the sake of America's future!

I love the way these vets like to sum things up. This nation feels the desperate need to summarise, simplify, wrapping it up and to standardise everything.

In Germany we discuss about tiny percentages in tax changes when it comes to choosing a party... in the US the topics are bigger and more impulsive!

[theavonlady 2]

I can do better    wait up

Quote[/b] ]Bush or Kerry

I am a WWII vet, 83 years old, fought 6 campaigns against the Krauts from Italy to Berchtesgaden with the 3rd Infantry Division.

I opposed going to war with the Muslims, a job which Bush's father failed to complete. The WMD were never found because they didn't exist. One thousand American soldiers have been KIA, Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" in a big TV extravanganza and the War had just begun! Bush is not a vet. He never fought in a War for his country. He has turned the rest of the World against us and wants another 4 years of the same. He avoided real military service, has created tremendous federal deficits and is interested only in his political future. Our former allies have turned against us. Bush has got to go for the sake of America's future!

Word in from the Bush campaign office is that they're not interested.

Word in from Kerry's office is that your material is unoriginal.

See!

[walker 0]

Quote[/b] ]Notice how Cheney criticizes Kerry's voting/speech record (A rather strong indicator of what Kerry would do in office), but Kerry responds by basically saying "Ah'm a veteran, he ain't."

   That's exactly what I'm talking about. Every thing goes back to "I'm a veteran what have you done!".

   The guy reminds me of some washed out pathetic loser. You know the type that wont shut up about the one great deed they did way back when they were young. "I nailed Jenny Mcjennerson at the senior prom back in 76, I was the man.".  Yeah who gives a flying you know what. Name something worth while you've done recently loser.

    Next time Kerry says "Reporting for duty" or "I'm a veteran" I'm gong to puke my digestive tract out onto the floor and die in total disgust.

    Supremely tired of it all,

                                    Sputnik Monroe

Hi Sputnik Monroe

Courage, Honor and Moral Fiber

It comes down to some basic concepts that should be in every candidate for Commander in Chief, Courage, Honor and Moral Fiber.

All the kinds of things missing from Chicken Hawks. People who are well prepared to spend the lives of Patriotic sons and daughters of patriotic Americans but run away in a shower of clucking feathers when it comes to placing their own lives on the line in the nations service.

The swift fantasies

So for that past few weeks, since the Democratic convention, the NeoConMen; who have conned them selves into control the US Republican party; have used the same people and methods as they used to con them selves in to power in the US Republican party and that so dishonored and besmirched the good name of Vietnam War Hero John McCain, saying he had become unhinged by his years as POW, to attack the honor and courage and integrity of the Vietnam War Hero John F. Kerry.

They have done this for weeks on end each of their lies, just the same as the lies against Vietnam War Hero John McCain, has been refuted. So that now more than 60% of Americans say the Swift fantasists are politically motivated liars. Like I said to billybob2002 backlash is a b*tch.

All that venom and evil John F. Kerry has weathered stoically as any true hero does showing bags of Courage, Honor and Moral Fiber to spare.

Now comes the fight back John F. Kerry has faced the worst the NeoConMen can throw at him, they have shot their bolt.

Now they must talk about the issues. Something John F. Kerry was talking about from day one.

The Issues

The Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior and his dwindling band of supporters want people to discuss fairy tales not the real issues of the election but these are the issues they are most afraid of:-

Rising Poverty

Then don't want us to discuss the rising poverty in America with approximately 35.8 million people living below the poverty line in 2003 that was a rise on of 1.3 million on the previous year, while the ranks of the uninsured swelled by 1.4 million. Mean while all of George Bush Juniors NeoConMen cronies are living high on the hog with their ever increasing tax cuts for rich people only. They don't want is discussing his corrupt corporate cronies.

The Economy

They dare not discuss the economy because that is full of monsters like lots of unemployment, a dollar that is worth less and less, debt up to your ears, the maxed out credit card deficit, gas prices at the pump that are higher than ever etc.

Education

With college fees so high and rising that many middle class families cannot send their kids to college, the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior and his cronies in TBA don't want you discussing the fact John F. Kerry has offered a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offered aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of the nations workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.

Iraq

They dare not discuss Iraq and National defense because the war is looking very bad and lots people have died and it was all a mistake anyway which George Bush Junior now admits. There was no WMD. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Al Qaida. And TBA Never, Never, had a plan for the peace, the most important part of any war. They don't want people to be discussing the fact that TBA and the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior went out and found lawyers to say it was OK to torture people and rape little boys and that after it was done they got caught and still the corporate culprits go free.

Health

They dare not discuss health because so many don't have any health insurance any longer; being unemployed or or too low paid and it reminds everyone the economy is going to hell in a hen basket.

Corporate Crime

They dare not discuss crime because that reminds everyone that the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior has a criminal record and is a friend of Kenneth Lay and others in ENRON who gave the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior millions of dollars for his 2000 election campaign and that Dodgy Dick Cheney gave them an energy deal that allowed them to con the people of California out of billions of dollars.

Homeland Defense

They cannot discuss homeland defense because that reminds everyone that on 9/11 when the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior was told "America is Under Attack" he froze in fear and spent 10 minutes having kiddies read him a fairy tale about a goat then he spent 20 minutes taking a photo op.

And in the 34 minutes from first being told "America is Under Attack" to the aircraft hitting the countries chief defense site the Pentagon in the nations capitol Washington the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior did not issue a single order for the nations defense. Not One.

Kind Regards All Walker