The Iraq thread 3

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The smiley is ment to evoke my surprise,I am not saying it isn`t him as I haven`t seen the video and from the picture I see they are all masked men.It gets all the more stranger as there was widespread news he got his leg amputated.

One of MSNBC or Fox News (forgot which one) guest said that the voice does not sound like a iraqi's voice. He said that it was more like egyptian, syrian, and etc. not iraqi.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The rest are in an Iraqi jail being tortured.......

[insert offensive joke]. Not really, just waiting for ALL THE FACTS to come out. Still believe it was a small minority.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I am sure most of you have heard about the "stanford prison experiment" of 1971. It showed what a lack of control in prisons can have as consequences. Due to a escalation of the situation the experiment was aborted.

if you are interested read this short slideshow (not powerpoint)

You dont need the devil to cause such sorts of torture. All you need is ordinary people, lack of control and ...well thats enough!

What suspects had done was to answer a local newspaper ad calling for volunteers in a study of the psychological effects of prison life. We wanted to see what the psychological effects were of becoming a prisoner or prison guard. To do this, we decided to set up a simulated a prison and then carefully note the effects of this institution on the behavior of all those within its walls.

More than 70 applicants answered our ad and were given diagnostic interviews and personality tests to eliminate candidates with psychological problems, medical disabilities, or a history of crime or drug abuse. Ultimately, we were left with a sample of 24 college students from the U.S. and Canada who happened to be in the Stanford area and wanted to earn $15/day by participating in a study. On all dimensions that we were able to test or observe, they reacted normally.

Our study of prison life began, then, with an average group of healthy, intelligent, middle-class males. These boys were arbitrarily divided into two groups by a flip of the coin. Half were randomly assigned to be guards, the other to be prisoners. It is important to remember that at the beginning of our experiment there were no differences between boys assigned to be a prisoner and boys assigned to be a guard.

[Pathy 0]

But dont forget, this experiment also supports the "minority" argument:

Quote[/b] ]By the fifth day, a new relationship had emerged between prisoners and guards. The guards now fell into their job more easily -- a job which at times was boring and at times was interesting.

There were three types of guards. First, there were tough but fair guards who followed prison rules. Second, there were "good guys" who did little favors for the prisoners and never punished them. And finally, about a third of the guards were hostile, arbitrary, and inventive in their forms of prisoner humiliation. These guards appeared to thoroughly enjoy the power they wielded, yet none of our preliminary personality tests were able to predict this behavior. The only link between personality and prison behavior was a finding that prisoners with a high degree of authoritarianism endured our authoritarian prison environment longer than did other prisoners.

[ebud 18]

Some Iraqi's get glow sticks shoved up their butts and there is an uproar here in the forums. An american is beheaded and nothing.

Not suprising.

[Pathy 0]

Are you saying that its more of a disgrace that one US contracter, who knew the risks and was being paid for them ,was killed, than dozens of Iraqi prisoners being physically abused by the people who claimed to be liberating them from exactly that type of abuse?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Some Iraqi's get glow sticks shoved up their butts and there is an uproar here in the forums. An american is beheaded and nothing.

Not suprising.

If americans were beheading iraqi's for them just being a iraqi, the forums will be in uproar. Double-standard? Yeah

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Are you saying that its more of a disgrace that one US contracter, who knew the risks and was being paid for them ,was killed, than dozens of Iraqi prisoners being physically abused by the people who claimed to be liberating them from exactly that type of abuse?

Were they beheaded and their heads played around with?

[Pathy 0]

I will clear this up before i get flamed to hell, i dont advocate either parties actions, both are as wrong as the other, but the serious US abuses of Human Rights here are the biggest double standard i see in this situation, and of course that is going to cause more uproar......

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Are you saying that its more of a disgrace that one US contracter, who knew the risks and was being paid for them ,was killed, than dozens of Iraqi prisoners being physically abused by the people who claimed to be liberating them from exactly that type of abuse?

Were they beheaded and their heads played around with?

Try being raped by a glowstick.....

[ebud 18]

Quote[/b] ]Are you saying that its more of a disgrace that one US contracter, who knew the risks and was being paid for them ,was killed, than dozens of Iraqi prisoners being physically abused by the people who claimed to be liberating them from exactly that type of abuse?

Were they beheaded and their heads played around with?

Try being raped by a glowstick.....

I's sure as shit pick that over HAVING MY FUCKING HEAD CUT OFF!

And no, his life was not more important that the iraqis that were killed in custody. But I do believe there is a huge difference bwtween the 2 situations.

[Akira 0]

Are you saying that its more of a disgrace that one US contracter, who knew the risks and was being paid for them ,was killed, than dozens of Iraqi prisoners being physically abused by the people who claimed to be liberating them from exactly that type of abuse?

He was a telecommunications contractor, there to improve the infrastructure. Not a security contractor. He was unarmed. Apaprently he had also previously been to Ghana and another African nation (forgot which) to improve the infrastructure there. On one trip he personally bought a village a $900 brick making machine.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]He was a telecommunications contractor, there to improve the infrastructure. Not a security contractor. He was unarmed. Apaprently he had also previously been to Ghana and another African nation (forgot which) to improve the infrastructure there. On one trip he personally bought a village a $900 brick making machine.

and he was independent.

[Pathy 0]

So an all round nice guy.....but you still cant expect uproar, this isnt on the scale of the prisoner abuses....i mean, THAT is....well, given all we hear about human rights from the US......

Yeh i feel sorry that the guy was beheaded, my 1st reaction was "F***in savages", i decided not to post that incase it was deemed racist (as it probably will be, although its not a comment on race.....), but at the same time, the guy WAS an experienced contracter and knew what he was getting into, and that he could be killed. Its a pity a minority kill the people there to help the majority.....:(

Tell you what WOULD have caused uproar. Pictures of this guy being anally raped or dragged across the floor on a lead......at least he didnt suffer that....

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

1st. Lets hope we can expect higher standards of morale from the US than from the Saddam torturers. Or shouldnt we?

2. I can assure you to be forced to homosexual actions, to be naked and downgraded by a foreign women and to be raped by a glowstick is just as terrible for a muslim than to be killed. But that (I mention it already) doesnt want to go into your heads!

3rd. Something like a torture-bonus-card doesnt exist. Just because your opponent does it doesnt mean you are allowed to do it. The western culture is not build around the idea "eye for an eye". Cause that, as buddhists say "would only cause both sides to get blind forever"

4th as far as "smart" strategy is concerned..what do you think the iraqis will do to the next captured US soldier? Well I hope you got a sick mind to figure that out

[Akira 0]

Tell you what WOULD have caused uproar. Pictures of this guy being anally raped or dragged across the floor on a lead......at least he didnt suffer that....

I'm not quite sure you read the description of the event. By all accounts they "sawed" his head off, taking as much as 5 swipes. Plus the screaming and plus the massive amounts of blood. In any stretch I think he "suffered" quite enough.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]2. I can assure you to be forced to homosexual actions, to be naked and downgraded by a foreign women and to be raped by a glowstick is just as terrible for a muslim than to be killed. But that (I mention it already) doesnt want to go into your heads!

I assure it I know that very well. But again. We still see no outrage from any forum members or the world or even muslim clerics. All his family gets is "he knew what he was getting into," and that is the saddest commentary of them all.

Oh. Btw. Please furnish me the picture of Nick Berg shoving a glowstick up a prisoner's ass. Then you can tell me he deserved it.

Quote[/b] ]3rd. Something like a torture-bonus-card doesnt exist. Just because your opponent does it doesnt mean you are allowed to do it. The western culture is not build around the idea "eye for an eye". Cause that, as buddhists say "would only cause both sides to get blind forever"

Indeed. If only the people that did this "in retalitation" (which I don't believe for an instant) for the torture of Iraqis thought that too.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I assure it I know that very well. But again. We still see no outrage from any forum members or the world or even muslim clerics.

When I got home and heard the news on television, my hands were shaking (no joke). I did not know if it was inter-rage or the act itself got to me but that was the first time that has happen. That act must have really messed with me. Then I got weird thoughs about when/if they catch those assholes.

Damn! need something to calm my nerves....ofp....

[Longinius 1]

Akira, why do you guys refuse to understand?

Seeing muslim fundamentalists kill people doesnt cause a loud outrage. Why? Because we expect them to behave this way, its their SOP and they dont deny it. They dont claim any other way.

US soldiers however are supposed to follow certain rules, they are supposed to be the friggin good guys. THATS why people get upset when they do nasty sheit like torturing people.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Akira, why do you guys refuse to understand?

Seeing muslim fundamentalists kill people doesnt cause a loud outrage. Why? Because we expect them to behave this way, its their SOP and they dont deny it. They dont claim any other way.

US soldiers however are supposed to follow certain rules, they are supposed to be the friggin good guys. THATS why people get upset when they do nasty sheit like torturing people.

You mean black and white.....

[Akira 0]

Akira, why do you guys refuse to understand?

Seeing muslim fundamentalists kill people doesnt cause a loud outrage. Why? Because we expect them to behave this way, its their SOP and they dont deny it. They dont claim any other way.

US soldiers however are supposed to follow certain rules, they are supposed to be the friggin good guys. THATS why people get upset when they do nasty sheit like torturing people.

Oh I see. How silly of me. It is there SOP so there is no reason to be outrage or show any outrage. Just another day. Oh well. Let em behead as many civilians as they want, since after all. That is SOP.

Gimme a fucking break. That's one of the most ignorant disgusting things I've read on this forum.

[Chill 0]

UK troops 'shot harmless Iraqis'

An eye-witness said Hanan Saleh Matrud's death was not an accident

UK troops have killed Iraqi civilians including an eight-year-old girl when they were under no apparent threat, Amnesty International has claimed.

The human rights group claims in "many" cases the deaths of civilians caused by UK troops had not been investigated.

Inquiries were "secretive" and handled by Military Police, its report says.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

This thread is closed for 24 hrs starting from now.

Should be enough time to allow people to calm down.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Opening 3 hrs early.

Be nice lads

[raedor 8]

This thread is closed for 24 hrs starting from now.

Should be enough time to allow people to calm down.

Opening 3 hrs early.

Be nice lads

so you've been lying? let's start a flamewar about that!