The Iraq thread 3

[bonko the sane 2]

well then, if they went there with no solid "moral" motives and they are quite aware of it, it comes as no surprise whats happening right now, moral is fecked up, motivation is inexistant, theres no real reason to be there, at least in a soldiers point of view, its not as if they went there to save the iraqui people...and as theres so much frustration at guerrila attacks they cant avoid, it figures they found an easy target to vent all that anger...we all should know better, with the amount of "public" explanations they came up with to justify the invasion of iraq: i.e: WMD's, uphold democracy, kick evil Saddam who was our pal up to a while back blah blah blah...

None of those reasons were motive enough to invade iraq, 'cos if they were a LOT of countries on this globe fall into that exact category of dictators who dont respect human rights, but they dont have something that iraq has, or they are still chums with the U.S. and other western governments :|

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]wether your from a "developed" country or from a third world country, if under stress and risking life and limb, theres no way you will stay civil and humane, this sort of phenomena happened in all wars and it will happen again and again tomorrow, why is everyone acting so surprised?

Why am I surprised? I don't find it hard to believe that soldiers crack or fuck up and lose control in a war scenario!

However, I am VERY surprised of the systematic nature of what's been going on in coalition lead prisons!

When you are so bloody willing to get rid of Iraqs burden Saddam and reinstate democracy - maybe you shouldn't be responsible for such terrible crimes in the first place.

So true! Noone is surprised or shocked that war is a cruel game with humans turning into savage slaughterers, especially not in europe.

But a system that "facilitates" or even deliberately "enables" soliders to go Beserk, that is basically a bad surprise for the 21st century!

[denoir 0]

this sort of phenomena happened in all wars and it will happen again and again tomorrow, why is everyone acting so surprised?

Not necessarily. I can with some certainty say that nothing in this category and scale went on in KFOR. Sure there were incidents of soldiers acting badly, but it was always individuals and they were dealt with. There was nothing as systematic and prolonged as these things in Iraq. There was nothing similar to the contempt that these Iraqis were treated - as if they were lower forms of life.

[Balschoiw 0]

By US picture of Iraqis in media I´m not that surprised:

Iraqis = Muslims = Long beared and wild eyes = Terrorists = not really human by definition of GW Bush for the Guantanamo prisoners = justfied to see Iraqis as a minor life form = kick their butts

I´m really not that surprised. Some soldiers in Iraq still think they are there for 9/11 reasons

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I know I repeat myself over and over again but just screen through their official military forum. You have more than a dozen contributors (high ranks) that call for the "endlösung". I know the americans have a very loose tong but a certain pattern of such attitudes can be observed. If you doubt that then msg me and I spam you with corresponding posts of the military.com forum!

[billybob2002 0]

I wonder if this is true:

http://www.iraqpress.org/arabic.....2;1.htm

Quote[/b] ]

Baghdad, Iraq Press, May 11, 2004 – The body of a missing university professor has been found in the outskirts of Baghdad.

Dr. Abdulsamia al-Janabi was abducted following a row at Mustansiriya University over the distribution of leaflets and placards in the campus.

Janabi was dean of the Science College at the University and one of the country’s top scientists.

He wanted to distance his college from the current political wrangling in the country.

University campuses in Iraq have turned into arenas for the various political factions to propagate their ideas.

Janabi ordered all political placards removed from walls and asked his students to stay away from politics while in the campus.

Students belonging to Shiite groups objected to the decision and held a sit-in in protest.

The students had splashed university walls with placards to commemorate a religious festival.

A few days later Janabi disappeared.

His body was found with the head chopped off in Baghdad outskirts.

The Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research is trying to keep campuses away from politics but to no avail.

Ministry sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, say about 200 university professors have been killed since the collapse of the former regime a year ago.

.......

[brgnorway 0]

Could be true - however, there are certain things that needs clarification.

Quote[/b] ]He wanted to distance his college from the current political wrangling in the country.

University campuses in Iraq have turned into arenas for the various political factions to propagate their ideas.

Janabi ordered all political placards removed from walls and asked his students to stay away from politics while in the campus.

Have you ever been to a university where politics have not been a major issue? At least I haven't, but I guess the political atmosphere were to say the least a bit subdued during Saddam's rule. My point(s) are that to become a professor during his reign you would likely be politically a supporter (at least officially) of Saddam or the baath party - which inevidently makes you a target of new power factions in the campus.

Secondly, if there's one place where political ideas would thrive at this moment it HAS to be in the various universities!

Thus, if there's a shite faction at the uni I guess a former Saddam loyal professor once again denying students (shite) political activity - which suits the occupying forces - then it's highly likely he will face the consequences. Not right - but understandable as he used to be a part of the baath apparatus.

Quote[/b] ]Ministry sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, say about 200 university professors have been killed since the collapse of the former regime a year ago.

True or not - I bet you'll see more of this when Saddams henchmen in various public institutions suffer from the people's revenge. It doesn't look like the coalition are able to secure Iraq in a way an occupying force are supposed to!

Secondly, Billybob - I wonder what's your motives when you always try to dig up dirt about UN or anything else every time there's a discussion about Abu Graib etc. ? Is the truth so hard for yhou to accept that you would love to "distribute it more evenly" ?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Secondly, Billybob - I wonder what's your motives when you always try to dig up dirt about UN or anything else every time there's a discussion about Abu Graib etc. ? Is the truth so hard for yhou to accept that you would love to "distribute it more evenly" ?

You talking about the food-for-oil program that was corrupt and that could of killed a untold number of civilians? Also, could of made certain people rich.

Abu Graib: the mps if found guilty should be put in jail for at least more than two years. Also, something is fishy about if that type of abuse was approve or not. Nobody can command you to have sex in front of prisoners with multiple partners.

[theavonlady 2]

I wonder if this is true:

http://www.iraqpress.org/arabic.....2;1.htm

Quote[/b] ]

Baghdad, Iraq Press, May 11, 2004 – The body of a missing university professor has been found in the outskirts of Baghdad.

Dr. Abdulsamia al-Janabi was abducted following a row at Mustansiriya University over the distribution of leaflets and placards in the campus.

Janabi was dean of the Science College at the University and one of the country’s top scientists.

He wanted to distance his college from the current political wrangling in the country.

University campuses in Iraq have turned into arenas for the various political factions to propagate their ideas.

Janabi ordered all political placards removed from walls and asked his students to stay away from politics while in the campus.

Students belonging to Shiite groups objected to the decision and held a sit-in in protest.

The students had splashed university walls with placards to commemorate a religious festival.

A few days later Janabi disappeared.

His body was found with the head chopped off in Baghdad outskirts.

The Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research is trying to keep campuses away from politics but to no avail.

Ministry sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, say about 200 university professors have been killed since the collapse of the former regime a year ago.

.......

Wonder if this is connected? From a May 10th entry on the Healing Iraq blog:

Quote[/b] ]Iraqi doctors ask: "What about us?"

A number of renown Iraqi specialist doctors have expressed their outrage over the Iraqi, Arab, and international public reaction to the images of abused prisoners at Abu Ghraib. This following an alarming increase in the number of assassinations and abductions of Iraqi intellectuals and top medical professionals recently in Baghdad.

"They scream and whine about abuse of prisoners, most of who are criminals, but I don't recall anyone mentioning what we have gone through let alone condemning it, which was much worse. Now they are openly calling the Americans to release thousands of those criminals from Abu Ghraib.", a relative of ours told us a couple of days ago. He was kidnapped months ago and held for 2 weeks, after which his family paid a large ransom. Now he is considering leaving Iraq after he had recieved threats. He has already been offered a job as a professor in a Medical college in Europe.

Dr. Jawad Al-Shakarchi, a famous ophthalmologist was beaten together with his wife in front of his own house by armed assailants and was then forced to pay a ransom of $30,000. He left Iraq shortly following his release. Dr. Walid Al-Khayyal, a world famous Iraqi nephrologist specialised in kidney surgery and implantation immigrated to the UK immediately after his release a few weeks ago. He mentioned that his kidnappers tortured him and urinated in his mouth several times in an attempt to break his will. He refused to disclose the sum he paid for ransom. Dr. Abdul Hadi Al-Khalili, a specialist in brain surgery, is still suffering from severe psychological trauma and depression because of the humiliation he experienced by his captors and the large sum he paid in order to save his life. Dr. Raysan Al-Fayyadh, a general surgeon, was kidnapped by 15 gunmen in 3 cars. His family paid his captors $50,000 after he had sustained fractures in his nose and left arm after a whole week of torture.

Other gangs have resorted to blackmailing doctors monthly in return for their personal safety. The target is often threatened with death or abduction of a family member in case he doesn't comply with their demands. Eventually, this lead to rivalry and disputes between gangs competing for wealthier targets, often settled by assigning 'areas of influence' to each gang

A long list of specialists and doctors whom had immigrated abroad to escape the hegemony of organised crime groups was released by several concerned specialists. The list includes names such as Sarmad Al-Fahad, Riyadh Al-Sakini, Mudhaffar Karkachi, Mizhir Al-Douri, Mudhaffar Habboush, Talib Khairallah, Sinan Al-Azawi, Adil Al-Qaisi, Ayad Shafiq, and Hussam Jarmuqli. The Iraqi Medical Association organised a sit-in Saturday protesting the public's silence to the dangers they were confronting everyday, and calling upon the GC, Ministry of Interior, religious, tribal, and political groups to put an end to it, warning them of the grave consequences to the country if the immigration of Iraqi specialists and intellectuals abroad continues.

As much as 500 Iraqi intellectuals and specialists have been reportedly assassinated since April 2003, and a much larger number have been abducted. Several groups have been accused. Insurgents, criminals, fundamental religious groups, foreign terrorists, even Israelis. GC member Muhsin Abdul Hamid mentioned the phenomenon a week ago for the first time in public, decribing it as an "international plot against Iraq". However, the reluctance of the IP to assume their duties and the spread of lawlessness is to blame. Several gangs have been captured only to be released after a few days because of threats against the police force. In Tannuma, Basrah, an IP station was surrounded by an armed group related to several prisoners detained at the station. A tribal sheikh leading the group talked to the IP officer and told him to release his 'boys'. When the officer tried to explain to him that the prisoners they were holding were looters and bandits, the sheikh responded "So what? You know they're only trying to support their families". The officer was forced to release the prisoners when the sheikh threatened to return with heavier weapons. The reason the officer relented is because he also lives in the same area, and he or his family might be later harmed by relatives of the criminals.

Some tribal sheikhs have condemned other tribes for this behaviour, and several have vowed upon themselves to disown or punish any of their tribesmen connected with banditry or criminal behaviour, and to lose the protection and sanctuary of one's tribe is the worst kind of punishment that can be inflicted on an individual in rural parts of Iraq. That is why the former regime relied on tribal leaders rather than the police force to maintain order in the country.

Tribal laws sometimes border on the surreal. For example, when a thief breaks into your house and you succeed in injuring or killing him, his tribe would contact you asking for a diyya (a specific sum of money to be payed to a tribe for it's reputation and esteem to be restored) otherwise you would have to face the consequences. There are some ridiculous stories related to this practice, like a few months ago, this incident at the Basrah university; a herd of bulls was passing through an area of campus where some powerlines construction work was going on, a bull was electrocuted when it tripped over and damaged a power cable. The bull belonged to a tribe of former Marsh Arabs who had settled in the area recently. An angry sheikh came to the dean demanding a diyya for the dead bull. The dean was at a loss. He couldn't convince the sheikh that he had nothing to do with the accident. The university ended up paying the tribe for their dead bull.

I suppose I will have to write a post some time about tribes and their controversial role in Iraqi society.

# posted by zeyad : 5/10/2004 06:17:43 PM

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Secondly, Billybob - I wonder what's your motives when you always try to dig up dirt about UN or anything else every time there's a discussion about Abu Graib etc. ? Is the truth so hard for yhou to accept that you would love to "distribute it more evenly" ?

You talking about the food-for-oil program that was corrupt and that could of killed a untold number of civilians? Also, could of made certain people rich.

kinda funny that you claim how saction killed more people. that's what liberals use to manipulate the fact that Hussein was the bastard.

[bonko the sane 2]

this sort of phenomena happened in all wars and it will happen again and again tomorrow, why is everyone acting so surprised?

Not necessarily. I can with some certainty say that nothing in this category and scale went on in KFOR. Sure there were incidents of soldiers acting badly, but it was always individuals and they were dealt with. There was nothing as systematic and prolonged as these things in Iraq. There was nothing similar to the contempt that these Iraqis were treated - as if they were lower forms of life.

Dont get me wrong, I know u were over there, but: UN Sex Scandal in Kosovo

Fundamentaly, i think humankind is pretending they have reached some sort of moral and spiritual development which hasnt, and wont for a long time, so words are distancing themselves from facts more and more, theres always been hypocrisy, but nowadays is reaching absurd levels.

[theavonlady 2]

Dont get me wrong, I know u were over there, but: UN Sex Scandal in Kosovo

Of mice and men:

Quote[/b] ]German troops 'hid like rabbits' in Kosovo riots

By Tony Paterson in Berlin

(Filed: 09/05/2004)

German troops serving with the Kfor international peacekeeping contingent in Kosovo have been accused of hiding in barracks "like frightened rabbits" during the inter-ethnic rioting that erupted in the province in March.

A hard-hitting German police report sent to the Berlin government last week criticises the troops for cowardice and for their failure to quell the rioting in which 19 people died and about 900 others were injured.

The charges - the most serious made against the German army since the Second World War - have been levelled by police officers serving with Unmik, the United Nations civil administration in Kosovo.

During the two-day riots between Albanian and Serbs, an Albanian mob burnt and looted 29 Serb churches and monasteries in the southern city of Prizren, and caused several thousand Serbs to flee their homes.

Leaked excerpts from the report on the conduct of the 3,600-strong German contingent based in Prizren disclose that Unmik police were left to fend for themselves at the height of the rioting.

"Despite continuous appeals for help from Kfor, nobody from the military appeared to back up the police," the report said. "Kfor proved to be incapable of carrying out the duties to which it has been assigned."

Further damning evidence, based on interviews with Unmik officers, Serb church leaders and unnamed UN officials in Prizren, was published in Der Spiegel magazine.

The magazine concluded: "The German soldiers ran away and hid like frightened rabbits in their barracks. They only reappeared in armoured vehicles after the Albanian mob had wreaked its havoc and left a trail of destruction."

Col Dieter Hintelmann, who heads the German Kfor contingent in Prizren, insisted that his men had simply obeyed Kfor rules of engagement. They prohibit troops from protecting buildings and allow the use of firearms only in self-defence. "We were acting exactly according to the rules," he said.

However, the Unmik officers claim that the Kfor troops had breached their rules of engagement because they failed to protect them even though they were legally bound to do so.

The allegations have come as a severe embarrassment to Gerhard Schroder's government, which in the past has gone out of its way to praise the German Kfor contingent for the role it played in the troubled province through its excellent contacts with local people.

After the rioting, Serb Orthodox church leaders in Kosovo described the German deployment in the region as a mistake, and demanded the troops withdraw.

So far, the German government has refused to acknowledge publicly the complaints made in the police report. However, the defence ministry is believed to be recommending that the law be changed, allowing soldiers to use tear gas grenades for riot control.

[denoir 0]

Dont get me wrong, I know u were over there, but: UN Sex Scandal in Kosovo

Oh come on. Are you seriously trying to compare soldiers getting laid with prostitutes to the torture and abuse of prisoners?

Quote[/b] ]Fundamentaly, i think humankind is pretending they have reached some sort of moral and spiritual development which hasnt, and wont for a long time, so words are distancing themselves from facts more and more, theres always been hypocrisy, but nowadays is reaching absurd levels.

So, the Geneva conventions are hypocrisy? The UN definition of human rights is hyporcisy? An Iraqi man objecting getting raped in prison is being hypocritical?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Of mice and men:

Of bullshit and ROE´s ?

ROE´s for the german kontingent in KFOR are strict and don´t include guarding churches. As for the serb orthodox remarks you may want to check out what they say and then think again:

Quote[/b] ]"We hoped that Germans will show another face from the one in the World War II. However, we can see that the same pattern of behavior continued now", said one of the Serbs I. Jovanovic who lost his home in Prizren. Under the Nazi Germany in the World War II Kosovo Albanian extremists were organized within SS Skenderbey division and committed many crimes against Serbs and Macedonians under the tacit approval of the Wehrmacht and SS command.

Those are allegations made by serbian orthodox church. You judge if they are right or not. In fact monks and priests were evacuated from curches and monastyrs to save their lifes.

Anyway is this the KFOR thread or the Iraq thread and what sense does it have to post the story here, others then to distract from the Iraq events and blame someone else for something completely different. Avon classics.

[der bastler 0]

Quote[/b] ]German troops 'hid like rabbits' in Kosovo riots

By Tony Paterson in Berlin

(Filed: 09/05/2004)

German troops serving with the Kfor international peacekeeping contingent in Kosovo have been accused of hiding in barracks "like frightened rabbits" during the inter-ethnic rioting that erupted in the province in March.

[...]

After the rioting, Serb Orthodox church leaders in Kosovo described the German deployment in the region as a mistake, and demanded the troops withdraw.

So far, the German government has refused to acknowledge publicly the complaints made in the police report. However, the defence ministry is believed to be recommending that the law be changed, allowing soldiers to use tear gas grenades for riot control.

So, what do you wanted to see? German Sturmtruppen shooting rioters? Smashing them with Tigers...eh... Marders?

ROE: De-escalation, you have to learn that on special KFOR/SFOR courses.

Just my two cents: The Bundeswehr is a defence army and therefore we should reduce our engagement outside Germany. We cannot even criticise the behaviour of other countries without being slapped with our own history. Under this circumstances, why should we export troops?

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Of mice and men:

Of bullshit and ROE´s ?

ROE´s for the german kontingent in KFOR are strict and don´t include guarding churches. As for the serb orthodox remarks you may want to check out what they say and then think again:

Quote[/b] ]"We hoped that Germans will show another face from the one in the World War II. However, we can see that the same pattern of behavior continued now", said one of the Serbs I. Jovanovic who lost his home in Prizren. Under the Nazi Germany in the World War II Kosovo Albanian extremists were organized within SS Skenderbey division and committed many crimes against Serbs and Macedonians under the tacit approval of the Wehrmacht and SS command.

Those are allegations made by serbian orthodox church. You judge if they are right or not. In fact monks and priests were evacuated from curches and monastyrs to save their lifes.

Anyway is this the KFOR thread or the Iraq thread and what sense does it have to post the story here, others then to distract from the Iraq events and blame someone else for something completely different. Avon classics.

Gee, touched Balshoiw's funnybone again.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Gee, touched Balshoiw's funnybone again.

No but as long as there has been no investigation conducted you will have to read both sides of the story.

It´s not my "funnybone" as you name it. I´m only loosly related to BW anymore but Kammerhoff was my boss for a long time and I know that he is a serious guy and not a hiding rabbit. In fact his nickname is "Bulldog" and that has it´s justification.

Serb orthodox church is no good source for unbiased news. They are trying to allegate BW forces with Hitlers forces. That´s just nonsense. As I said ROE´s for german KFOR are strict and don´t include the guarding of buildings. They transported away the priests and monks to prevent them from beeing killed but that doesn´t count, I know...

The albanians know the german ROE´s and try to take benefit of them. Therefore they will be changed and BW staff will be handed out riot control gear to prevent such in the future.

That´s it. I still fail to see the relation to Iraq thread though  

And as this thread is about Iraq and not about reviving Nazi feelings, although some seem to want that, here is the news:

Two Danes witnessed results of brutal treatment of Iraqis by British troops: Danish ministry

Quote[/b] ]COPENHAGEN (AFP) - Two Danish paramedics have reported seeing the results of abusive treatment inflicted by British soldiers on two Iraqis, one of whom was said to have died as a result of injuries sustained during questioning, the Danish defence ministry announced.

The assistant nurses were working in the British military hospital in Iraq (news - web sites)'s southern capital Basra when they were asked to assess the condition of the two Iraqis who had been brought to the hospital after allegedly enduring brutal treatment at the hand of their British interrogators.

One of the Iraqis later succumbed to his injuries, according to the Danish witnesses.

The Danish paramedics had reported the matter to a Danish army legal adviser but news of the incident only reached the Danish Defence Ministry on Thursday, the ministry said.

Defence Minister Soeren Gade has asked the Danish chief of staff to explain the delay in relaying the information.

The ministry said that a British investigation was underway.

Earlier this month Gade strongly condemned the reported abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US and British troops.

"I vigorously condemn these acts of abuse reported with photos and in media images showing... inexcusable... abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers and perhaps British soldiers," Gade said then.

Loud explosions rock southern edge of Najaf

Quote[/b] ]NAJAF, Iraq (AFP) - A series of loud explosions rocked the southern edge of the Iraqi Shiite holy city of Najaf from about 11:00 am (0700 GMT) on Friday, hours after fighting broke out between US troops and militiamen in the city's vast cemetery

The explosions came from an area where US forces and radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr's Mehdi army militia are facing off, south of the sacred Imam Ali mausoleum.

The explosions were heard shortly before Friday prayers at Najaf, one of Shiite Islam's holiest cities.

Shooting was also heard from the southern and western entrances to the city, and hospital sources said seven people, including an Afghan pilgrim, had been wounded.

Earlier at least three US tanks were seen in a cemetery northwest of the city centre about one kilometre (less than mile) from the shrine, and US helicopters hovered over the area.

Armed black-clad men veiled with scarves were seen running inside the sprawling cemetery and fanning out across the area.

Heavy black smoke was seen rising from the cemetery and the sound of heavy guns was heard.

Quote[/b] ]why should we export troops

Because we are the good ones and we do an outstanding job in Afghanistan for example. Without the germna forces in Afghanistan the situation for the locals would be very different.

[bonko the sane 2]

Dont get me wrong, I know u were over there, but: UN Sex Scandal in Kosovo

Oh come on. Are you seriously trying to compare soldiers getting laid with prostitutes to the torture and abuse of prisoners?  

Quote[/b] ]Fundamentaly, i think humankind is pretending they have reached some sort of moral and spiritual development which hasnt, and wont for a long time, so words are distancing themselves from facts more and more, theres always been hypocrisy, but nowadays is reaching absurd levels.

So, the Geneva conventions are hypocrisy? The UN definition of human rights is hyporcisy? An Iraqi man objecting getting raped in prison is being hypocritical?

1- no, getting laid with prostitutes was not my point, but slavery was. All KFOR personnel alegedly involved in this case were sent back home with full pay, those soldiers that brought this issue to the spotlight lost their jobs.

2- In ages past, armies invaded a country and everyone knew what was going to happen, people knew that rape, pillaging, looting and torture were a reality of war, in fact this was expected of any decent army.

Nowadays people assume that because we have made up nice treaties with nice words things wont be the same.... Sadly, for all the good will of certain non-fighting men that made up those human rights treatises I still cant think of any war that respected the geneva conventions or basic human rights.

Call me a pessimist, although i consider myself a realist; but for me, mankind is fundamentaly a bunch of wild dangerous animals in deep denial of their nature, with very few exceptions

[Longinius 1]

Uhm, I dont think rape and murder is in most peoples "nature". If civilization collapsed today, I wouldnt be out raping and murdering tomorrow. No matter if these rules were put on paper, the norms of our civilization should apply, even during war.

[der bastler 0]

Because we are the good ones and we do an outstanding job in Afghanistan for example. Without the germna forces in Afghanistan the situation for the locals would be very different.

[cyn]No, you are wrong, we are Germans. We are evil by definition, Nazis for all eternity.[/cyn]

That is the usual answer you get when you dare to criticise the behaviour of certain countries.

(saw several SAZxx come from and go to Bosnia)

[der bastler 0]

To get back on-topic...

The case "berg" is getting more mysterious...

FBI Press Room: Nicholas Berg -- U.S.Citizen slain in Iraq

E-mail from consul confirms Berg was in U.S. military hands

Berg questioned about 9/11 suspect, FBI says

A small summary (if you can read german): The strange case of Nicholas Berg

Too many questions, too few answers, the ideal medium for more conspiracy theories...

[Akira 0]

My favorite oddity about the Berg case:

Al-Queda Had Berg Email In 1999

Quote[/b] ]Berg, Al Qaeda linked before

By JAMES GORDON MEEK in Washington

and TRACY CONNOR in New York

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Zacarias Moussaoui

Berg

In a bizarre coincidence, Nick Berg crossed paths with Al Qaeda years before its henchmen beheaded him, when his E-mail and password wound up in the hands of 9/11 suspect Zacarias Moussaoui.

It happened in 1999, when Berg was at the University of Oklahoma and Moussaoui was enrolled at a nearby flight school, allegedly training to be an Al Qaeda hijacker.

After Moussaoui came under scrutiny in the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, the FBI discovered he had Berg's university E-mail password.

"In 2002, the FBI was following millions of leads in the wake of 9/11, and one led to Mr. Berg," said a senior Justice Department official.

After questioning Berg about the tie, the feds concluded he had never actually met Moussaoui, who had friends and roommates at the same college.

The matter remained closed until Berg's ill-fated visit to Iraq this year.

When he was detained by authorities in Mosul in March, FBI agents came to grill Berg, and he volunteered details about his previous dealings with the bureau, the official said.

But the eerie link between Berg and the terrorist cabal that later decapitated him "turned out to be total coincidence," the official said.

U.S. intelligence officials have confirmed their suspicions that it is Al Qaeda associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who is seen killing Berg on the shocking videotape.

Using voice analysis, they determined that Zarqawi - a one-legged mystery man with a $10 million bounty on his head - was the hooded figure who wielded the knife.

Berg's family, however, is also blaming the White House for his gruesome death.

"Nicholas Berg died for the sins of [President] George Bush and [Defense Secretary] Donald Rumsfeld," his father, Michael, told reporters. "This administration did this."

The family produced an E-mail yesterday that appeared to confirm Nick Berg was in U.S. custody when he fatefully missed his plane out of Iraq in March - even though officials insist he was held by Iraqis.

"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe," Beth Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, wrote to the family April 1.

The State Department told the Daily News Payne was misinformed, but didn't learn until April 7, a day after Berg was freed, that he'd been in Iraqi custody.

A police chief in Mosul, however, said Berg was never arrested by Iraqi authorities and Berg's own E-mails home said U.S. soldiers had been guarding him.

Berg, 26, had traveled to Iraq to drum up work for his radio-tower business and planned to fly home to West Chester, Pa., March 30 for a pal's wedding.

Because he was detained in Mosul, he missed his flight and was still trying to make his way home - through Turkey, according to one friend - when he vanished April 9.

U.S. officials have said they told Berg he should leave Iraq when he was released and offered him a flight back to safety.

But Michael Berg, an anti-war activist, said his son feared he might be killed on the treacherous route to the airport and decided to make his own way.

Michael Berg also took a call yesterday from presumptive Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry.

"He feels let down by, let down by those who should have been protecting his son," Kerry told Fox News' Alan Colmes.

A memorial is set for Nick Berg today, and high school friends have set up a Web site in his honor.

With Derek Rose in West Chester, Pa.

[SpongeBob 0]

My favorite oddity about the Berg case:

This is mine

Quote[/b] ]The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.

http://rense.com/general52/anom.htm

[Balschoiw 0]

Bremer hints at early pullout from Iraq

Quote[/b] ]The US overseer for Iraq Paul Bremer Friday aired the possibility of an American pullout from the country, saying the United States did not stay where it was "not welcome".

"If the provisional government asks us to leave we will leave," he said, referring to a post-June 30 administration after the handover of sovereignty.

"I don't think that will happen but obviously we don't stay in countries where we're not welcome," he said at a working lunch in Baghdad with Iraqi officials from Diyala province.

"The CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority) dissolves on June 30. Does that mean that the United States is going away? Absolutely not," he said.

...

"Our troops will stay in Iraq," he said. "Just because there's a transition, and just because we're going to move from this election to that election does not mean America will leave Iraq. We are not going to leave this job undone."

An opinion poll conducted for the CPA and quoted by Thursday's Washington Post showed that 80 percent of Iraqis mistrust the coalition authority and 82 percent disapprove of US and allied forces in their country.

So let´s get it sorted. US will leave if they are not wanted (82 percent disapprove of US and allied forces in their country), but the military will stay because the "job" is not finished. Ok, what does that mean now ?

1.US will keep Iraq on the leach with the oilmoney as the Iraqis are not given control over the fund.

2. Iraq will be financially totally dependant on the US goodwill.

Of course it is their money but who cares.

3. In case of a drop in ratings for the november elections, Bush can pull another stunt and pull out the US forces from Iraq because they are "not welcome".

4. Others shall fix what the coaltion wasted. Nothing new but this time it will be hard to sell. It´s your war, take it and eat it.

Aha, so this is a serious approach ?

Oh and good old europe won´t be on the occupier list for Iraq:

Paris won't send troops

Quote[/b] ]Reflecting anger and impotence over the chaos in Iraq, President Jacques Chirac of France and Chancellor Gerhard Schröder of Germany on Thursday criticized the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers and expressed horror over the beheading of an American civilian there.

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Their comments, made to reporters after a meeting at Elysée Palace, coincided with an interview by France’s new foreign minister, Michel Barnier, who said France would never send troops to help stabilize Iraq.

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‘‘It is out of the question,’’ Barnier was quoted as saying in Thursday’s Le Monde newspaper. ‘‘There will be no French soldiers in Iraq, not now and not later.’’

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A senior aide to Chirac said afterward that Barnier’s declaration accurately reflected the position of the French government. The official added that Chirac did not want the United States to think there was any possibility of the deployment of French troops to Iraq, even if there was a Security Council resolution transferring sovereignty to the Iraqi people.

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Although Barnier did not directly blame the United States for the violence raging throughout the Middle East, he described it in stark language unusual in diplomacy and in contradiction to optimistic predictions by the Bush administration that eventually the situation will improve.

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‘‘We must get out of this black hole that is sucking up the Middle East and, beyond that, the world,’’ Barnier said. ‘‘What shocks me is the spiral of horror, the blood, the inhumanity that we see now on all fronts, in Falluja like in Gaza, or through the terrible images of the assassination of this unfortunate American hostage.

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‘‘All of this gives the impression of a total loss of balance,’’ he said. The deterioration in occupied Iraq, combined with President George W. Bush’s support for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s unilateral Gaza withdrawal plan without first consulting European allies, has frustrated a number of European governments and made them less inclined than they might have been to help the United States in its effort to stabilize Iraq. The abuse scandal only worsened the atmosphere.

...

‘‘These acts constitute a stain on the honor of the soldiers who have participated in these abuses,’’ he said. ‘‘I immediately called them dishonorable and unworthy. We don’t know yet whether these are individual sadistic acts or whether this is an organized system.’’ In their news conference, Chirac and Schröder — both staunch opponents of the American-led war in Iraq and critics of the occupation — declared their commitment to work together to produce a viable Security Council resolution transferring sovereignty to the Iraqi people.

The categorical refusal by France to send troops to Iraq under any circumstances follows a declaration by Spain’s new prime minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, last week that he would never send Spanish soldiers back to Iraq, even if foreign troops there were put under the authority of the United Nations or NATO.

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Zapatero incurred the wrath of the Bush administration when he fulfilled a campaign promise and ordered Spanish troops out of Iraq as one of the first acts after taking office last month.

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Similarly, Germany has ruled out the deployment of troops to Iraq. In an interview with Der Spiegel Magazine this month, German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said, ‘‘I am quite relieved that we do not have troops in Iraq.’’

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Of the chaos and violence in Iraq, Mr. Fischer said, ‘‘What is happening now is precisely what I feared. We feared that occupation would strengthen Islamic terrorism and destabilize the region and this is what threatens to happen now.’’ The New York Times Reflecting anger and impotence over the chaos in Iraq, President Jacques Chirac of France and Chancellor Gerhard Schröder of Germany on Thursday criticized the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers and expressed horror over the beheading of an American civilian there.

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[Balschoiw 0]

Oh and Mr Neocon himself was given a lesson in basic human rights:

Senator grills Wolfowitz on US prisoner interrogation

Quote[/b] ]

Senator John Reed, a Democrat from Rhode Island, asked the deputy defense secretary at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee (news - web sites) if interrogation techniques approved for US-led forces in Iraq were, in his opinion, humane.

"Let me say, it says here, 'Detainees will never be touched in a malicious or unwanted manner. Approaches must always be humane and lawful."

"Mr. Secretary, do you think crouching naked for 45 minutes is humane?" Reed asked.

"Not naked, absolutely not," Wolfowitz replied.

"So if he's dressed up, that's fine. But this also has other environmental manipulation," Reed said.

"Let me put it this way: Seventy-two hours without regular sleep, sensory deprivation, which would be a bag over your head for 72 hours -- do you think that's humane, putting a -- and that's what this is, a bag over your head for 72 hours? Is that humane?"

"Let me come back to what you said the word ...."

"No, no. Answer the question, Mr. Secretary. Is that humane?"

"I don't know whether it means a bag over your head for 72 hours, Senator. I don't know," Wolfowitz said.

"Mr. Secretary, you're dissembling, nonresponsive!" Reed boomed. "Anybody would say putting a bag over someone's head for 72 hours, which is ...."

"I believe it's not humane," Wolfowitz said quietly.

So much winding, so little sucess...