The Iraq thread 3

[billybob2002 0]

It smells in here....anyway

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18911-2004May11.html

Quote[/b] ]

Some in Najaf Protest Sadr

By Sewell Chan

Washington Post Foreign Service

Wednesday, May 12, 2004; Page A16

BAGHDAD, May 11 -- About 400 people joined a peaceful demonstration Tuesday in Najaf, demanding that the militia of Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr leave the city.

Some of the demonstrators called for other Shiite religious leaders to take action against Sadr and his militia, the Mahdi Army, which has engaged U.S. forces in a month-long standoff. "We ask the religious leadership in Najaf to take the Sadr followers and the Mahdi Army away from the city," said Abid Turfi, 29, one of the demonstrators.

Followers of Sadr held a counter-demonstration a short time later.

The provincial governor of Najaf, Adnan Zurufi, said Tuesday that he would ask U.S. authorities to defer the prosecution of Sadr on murder charges if his militiamen agreed to disarm and disband.

After meeting with tribal leaders, Zurufi said: "I hope to meet Moqtada Sadr to negotiate about disbanding the Mahdi Army peacefully. If he doesn't agree to disband it peacefully, it will be disbanded by force."

In a statement, Sadr repeated his calls for an end to the U.S.-led occupation and said he would be willing to negotiate, but only if the terms were "fair, honest and supervised" by Shiite religious leaders. He is wanted by the occupation authority on charges of involvement in the killing of another Shiite cleric last year.

On Tuesday evening, representatives of Sadr's militia and several Shiite political groups met at the Imam Ali shrine, one of the holiest sites in Shiite Islam.

The U.S. commander responsible for Najaf said Sadr had become increasingly unpopular because his militia has extorted money from people in mosques, businesses and on the street.

The commander, Brig. Gen. Martin E. Dempsey of the 1st Armored Division, said he was trying to recruit 7,500 men to join the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps (ICDC). When clashes erupted in Najaf and other southern cities last month, many members of the paramilitary force, which U.S. officials created last year, deserted or refused to follow orders.

The recruits would mostly be young, unemployed men affiliated with Shiite groups. "The agreement is that they come into these ICDC units and they are broken apart and fused back together," Dempsey said.

He said the new units would be modeled after the Civil Defense Corps' 36th Battalion, a unit that Marines formed to help battle insurgents in the western city of Fallujah.

In Anbar province, where Fallujah is located, a memberof the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force was killed Tuesday by "enemy action," the Marines announced.

Special correspondent Saad Sarhan in Najaf contributed to this report.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Opening 3 hrs early.

Be nice lads

I love all of you! We are the world, we are the children. Lets make this world a better place for you and me!

Peace

Enough flower power now..back into battle

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I love all of you! We are the world, we are the children. Lets make this world a better place for you and me!

Peace

You Hippie! You made me retarded looking at those pics...    

[denoir 0]

Some Iraqi's get glow sticks shoved up their butts and there is an uproar here in the forums. An american is beheaded and nothing.

Not suprising.

What's there to say? It was a brutal, disgusting barbaric murder. And hardly surprising as such groups have resorted to similar barbarism before. There is nothing to say.

US military abusing Iraqi prisoners on the other hand is a completely different story as the tale being sold is that they are the liberators, the 'good guys'. So of course we hold US soldiers and the US military to higher standards.

Let me give you an anlogy: What would create more of an uproar - Police officers comitting crimes or criminals comitting crimes? What would get more news coverage - a police officer robbing a bank or a previously convicted robber?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Let me give you an anlogy: What would create more of an uproar - Police officers comitting crimes or criminals comitting crimes? What would get more news coverage - a police officer robbing a bank or a previously convicted robber?

It depends if the police department has a good relationship with the media.

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/

^^^^^

Click on the Video: Karbala Firefight to see reporter reporting inside a bradley during combat. That 25mm.....

[denoir 0]

Click on the Video: Karbala Firefight to see reporter reporting inside a bradley during combat. That 25mm.....

The intro was more worrying:

"More Americans palce their trust in only one news organization: Fox Newschannel"    

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]"More Americans palce their trust in only one news organization: Fox Newschannel"

Maybe they are saying that because they have the highest news channel rating?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

One thing I would like to mention before I go on with my ranting. Isnt it sad to see that in all forums around the globe people feel the eager committment to post the full-version footage of Nik Borg being cut into 2 pieces? I refused and still refuse to look at the images and I advise you the same. Not everything goes under the "freedom of information" excuse!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]Let me give you an anlogy: What would create more of an uproar - Police officers comitting crimes or criminals comitting crimes? What would get more news coverage - a police officer robbing a bank or a previously convicted robber?

It depends if the police department has a good relationship with the media.

No that is irrelevant. It would depend whether the police stems from a country with high moral standards. If the police is known to be rather uncorruptable, from a very advanced country, then torture images would be more of a surprise and sell better. And secondly, the better the images, the more cruel the content, the better it sells!

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]One thing I would like to mention before I go on with my ranting. Isnt it sad to see that in all forums around the globe people feel the eager committment to post the full-version footage of Nik Borg being cut into 2 pieces? I refused and still refuse to look at the images and I advise you the same. Not everything goes under the "freedom of information" excuse!

The world is a sick place....

[Akira 0]

To briefly go back to the execution:

I have noticed now that many groups are denouncing the execution of Nick Berg, including prominant Muslim clerics, and even Hezbollah, who called it against the tenets of Islam (but they also said it was badly timed as it takes away from the Iraq prison scandal).

Many Iraqi's interviewed were also strongly against the act, most calling it a sad event in the violence that is engulfing their nation.

Anyway....carry on.

[Akira 0]

One thing I would like to mention before I go on with my ranting. Isnt it sad to see that in all forums around the globe people feel the eager committment to post the full-version footage of Nik Borg being cut into 2 pieces? I refused and still refuse to look at the images and I advise you the same. Not everything goes under the "freedom of information" excuse!

Indeed. I second it.

EDIT: Many moons ago I made the mistake of watching the Pearl video. Took awhile to get that outta my head.

[quicksand 0]

It was bound to happen,by human nature.The more intriguing, forbidden(even though disgusting an cruel) the video is the more curious the public is.

Same thing a while ago when the Philiphine american hostage slaying video surfaced,or the execution from the Chechen war. Those who choose to watch this kind of videos argument that they do it in order to be familiar with the darker side of humanity.

For example:When you hear tens of thousands of Iraqi civillians died in this war it`s more like a statistic reference as your brain can`t comprahense what this actually means. But when you see pictures of the women,children,men it touches you in a very intense way.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]No that is irrelevant. It would depend whether the police stems from a country with high moral standards. If the police is known to be rather uncorruptable, from a very advanced country, then torture images would be more of a surprise and sell better. And secondly, the better the images, the more cruel the content, the better it sells!

Actually it does. If a police department has a very good relationship with the media and a police officer commits a crime, the story will not be on the front page.

My county has this problem with the media but another county in my state does not. You are more likely to see my county police department troubles on the front page than the other.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]No that is irrelevant. It would depend whether the police stems from a country with high moral standards. If the police is known to be rather uncorruptable, from a very advanced country, then torture images would be more of a surprise and sell better. And secondly, the better the images, the more cruel the content, the better it sells!

Actually it does. If a police department has a very good relationship with the media and a police officer commits a crime, the story will not be on the front page.

My county has this problem with the media but another county in my state does not.

THE good relationship with the press doesnt exist. We talk about a global industry here. You can have good relations with one or the other media giant, but the competitor will publish them in order to gain a competitive advantage.

[DracoPaladore 0]

One thing I would like to mention before I go on with my ranting. Isnt it sad to see that in all forums around the globe people feel the eager committment to post the full-version footage of Nik Borg being cut into 2 pieces? I refused and still refuse to look at the images and I advise you the same. Not everything goes under the "freedom of information" excuse!

Indeed. I second it.

EDIT: Many moons ago I made the mistake of watching the Pearl video. Took awhile to get that outta my head.

I don't know if it was a pearl video or not, but I actually once got a video of an execution by a prisoner by knife in the throat from Kazaa(was an accident.). First time I've really seen someone die, and that took quite some time to get out of my head.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

To briefly go back to the execution:

I have noticed now that many groups are denouncing the execution of Nick Berg, including prominant Muslim clerics, and even Hezbollah, who called it against the tenets of Islam (but they also said it was badly timed as it takes away from the Iraq prison scandal).

Many Iraqi's interviewed were also strongly against the act, most calling it a sad event in the violence that is engulfing their nation.

Anyway....carry on.

Do you happen to have a few good links on that?

[Balschoiw 0]

Talking of media...

Abuse 'was for Jessica Lynch'

Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen, here comes Propaganda today with "THE" excuse for torture and abuse.

Quote[/b] ]Baghdad, Iraq - A female soldier in the Army's 320th Military Police Battalion took "vigilante justice" on Iraqi prisoners who she believed had raped Army Pfc Jessica Lynch, according to a letter from the battalion's commander obtained by The Associated Press.

Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Phillabaum, commander of 3the battalion, levelled the allegation in a rebuttal to charges against his leadership of the 320th, some of whose soldiers were also charged with abusing prisoners last year at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.

Phillabaum made the allegation in an April 12 memo to Lieutenant General Thomas Metz, deputy commander of coalition forces in Iraq. He provided a copy to The Associated Press.

In the document, Phillabaum said Master Sergeant Lisa Girman, 35, and three other MPs from the same battalion abused the prisoners at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq on May 12, 2003.

"When Master Sergeant Lisa Girman returned to Camp Bucca shortly before midnight, she took 'vigilante justice' against EPW (enemy prisoners of war) that she believed had raped Pfc Jessica Lynch," he said. "Four out of the 10 320th MP Battalion soldiers abused some of the EPWs; a clear indication that the abuse was the responsibility of those individuals acting alone and was not condoned by myself or any leader at Camp Bucca."

She cannot recall

Lynch was captured and injured in the early days of the Iraq invasion. She was later rescued by US troops. According to medical records cited in her biography, she was also sodomised, apparently during a three-hour gap that she cannot recall.

The four Army reservists from the 320th Military Police Battalion are accused of punching and kicking several Iraqis, breaking one man's nose, while escorting prisoners to a POW processing centre.

Military officials have declined to name the reservists, but relatives identified them as Staff Sergeant Scott McKenzie, 37; Sergeant Shawna Edmondson, 24; and Spc Tim Canjar, 21. All are from Pennsylvania.

All four denied they did anything wrong and said the force they used was necessary to subdue unruly prisoners.

Phillabaum, who was reprimanded in connection with the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison, mentioned the previous abuse at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq in a rebuttal to charges levelled against him in an April report of an Army investigation.

Phillabaum said Girman and the other soldiers who allegedly beat prisoners at Camp Bucca had no authorisation for heavy-handed tactics from their commanders.

This is why channels like FOX news have to go away and stop their lobbying and support for the timed Bush system and the ultra-rights. We don´t need more of those Rednecks.

[red oct 2]

Click on the Video: Karbala Firefight to see reporter reporting inside a bradley during combat. That 25mm.....

The intro was more worrying:

"More Americans palce their trust in only one news organization: Fox Newschannel"    

don't worry about that every news channel will pretty much say that, CNN, ABC, BBC, NBC, MSNBC, and FOX.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]THE good relationship with the press doesnt exist. We talk about a global industry here. You can have good relations with one or the other media giant, but the competitor will publish them in order to gain a competitive advantage.

It can exist locally.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Do you happen to have a few good links on that?

Well as the report came too late for most of todays arabian and other papers, there was not that much reaction today.

Expect more to come tomorrow.

Here are some opinions:

Quote[/b] ]Some opinion-makers condemned the killing.

"This shows how base and vile those who wear the robe of Islam have become," said Abdullah Sahar, a Kuwait University political scientist.

Some said it surpassed the American military's abuse of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison, which has been the top story for the past 10 days in the Middle East.

"We were winning international sympathy because of what happened at Abu Ghraib, but they come and waste it all," said Abdullah Sahar, a Kuwait University political scientist, said of the Islamic militants responsible.

In the video, the masked militants said they were taking revenge on Berg because of the abuses at the Baghdad prison.

Mustafa Bakri, editor of Al-Osboa weekly newspaper in Egypt, said Berg's death will only hurt efforts to expose American offenses against Iraqis.

"Such revenge is rejected," Bakri said of the execution. "The American administration will make use of such crimes just to cover their real crimes against Iraqis."

Bakri spoke as he took part in a Cairo demonstration by about 50 Egyptian journalists and lawyers against American human rights abuses in Iraq.

Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, the big two satellite networks, aired carefully edited versions of the video. In Al-Arabiya's edit, a militant is seen drawing a knife and jerking Berg's body to one side. The rest is not shown.

"The news story itself is strong enough," said Jihad Ballout, spokesman for Qatar-based Al-Jazeera. "To show the actual beheading is out of the realm of decency."

Lebanon's private Al Hayat-LBC station led its bulletins today with the video. Its news presenter said: "We apologize to our viewers for not showing the entire tape because of the ugliness of the scene."

Kuwait state television broadcast the news of the execution late Tuesday but not the video.

Iraqi newspapers reported nothing about the killing, although it may have broken to late for them.

Egypt's leading daily, Al-Ahram, ignored the beheading today. Two other major pro-government newspapers ran news agency reports on their inside pages, without photos.

An Al-Ahram editor, Ahmed Reda, said the news came too late Tuesday night for the paper to confirm the video's authenticity with the U.S. government.

Newspapers in Syria, where the government controls the press tightly, did not report it at all.

A professor of journalism at the American University in Cairo, Hussein Amin, said the handling of the story by Egypt's pro-government papers was political and appropriate.

"I think that the government does not want to show this on the front page as a main item because it shows a very poor — poor is not the proper word; disgusting maybe is the better word — example of revenge," Amin said. "There is also the threat that it could be happening to other Americans. If they put it on the front page, (it could be seen as) they are favoring this kind of action."

Jordanian newspapers, state television and radio reported Berg's killing, but without commentary.

Most Lebanese newspapers, such as the left-wing As-Safir, published the report and a photograph of Berg sitting in front of the militants. As-Safir ran the headline: "Al-Zarqawi slaughters an American to avenge Iraqi prisoners."

In many Arab newspapers, the beheading received less display than the news of America's imposing sanctions on Syria and the killing of six Israeli soldiers in Gaza City.

Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company

Uh well that covers them all anyway

Linky:

Some Arab newspapers play down or ignore beheading of American

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen, here comes Propaganda today with "THE" excuse for torture and abuse.

This is why channels like FOX news have to go away and stop their lobbying and support for the timed Bush system and the ultra-rights. We don´t need more of those Rednecks.

Propaganda? What does Fox News have to do what that link or Bush or "ultra-rights"? What are you smoking?  

[billybob2002 0]

I did not know that this happened to Lynch when she was out.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....inter=1

Quote[/b] ]

According to medical records cited in her biography, Lynch also was sodomized, apparently during a three-hour gap she cannot recall.

[bn880 5]

Quote[/b] ]

Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen, here comes Propaganda today with "THE" excuse for torture and abuse.

This is why channels like FOX news have to go away and stop their lobbying and support for the timed Bush system and the ultra-rights. We don´t need more of those Rednecks.

Propaganda? What does Fox News have to do what that link or Bush or "ultra-rights"? What are you smoking?

Just so you know that kind of comment can be very insulting to some people, especially to some people in law enforcement.