Ofp2: simulation or arcade

[ArchangelSKT 0]

In real life, anyone can use any type of vehicle, it just depends on their knowledge of the controls and how to use them to greatest affect.

I think a pilot would know how to drive a car, dont you?

(calls taxi)

Well if your refering to me then I`m excluding the civilan veichles , I mean a pilot wound`t necesarily know how to operate a tank would he ?

I think it is cool if a pilot lands to to evac some troops then if he gets shot....well among those lines is what I`m talking about .

[FragMASTER 0]

Hey, im not a pilot IRL, but if I needed to, I could fly a plane or chopper, just not as good as a qualified pilot.

And as for tanks, they have simple controls that are easy to figure out. It's like driving a car, but instead of a steering wheel, it's more like bicyle handle bars.

[Spy17 1]

Quote[/b] ]Hey, im not a pilot IRL, but if I needed to, I could fly a plane or chopper, just not as good as a qualified pilot.

You would not even know the engine start process not to talk about the modern wepon systems in modern planes and choppers. Maybe if you are lucky you would get a chessna airborn but modern planes and choppers are a different story.

[Lumamorod 0]

I believe OFP is pretty much perfect in its intentions of balance in playability and reality. If the same philosophy goes into the development of OFP2, one should expect the same sort of immersion without so much of the little technical issues thats here and there distracted you.

If they fix the way buildings are handled, and the way the AI relates to them, making a better CQ environment, work a bit on the graphics front, namely to add more vegetation and properly implemented soft cover, make the command interface more efficient. And with the apropriate amount of eyecandy, and thats it for me.

The single most important thing IMHO is even better mod support and funcional mission editor.

Not that i use them a lot, but i know the wonderous things this tallented community can do with them, and how much that has done for OFP endless replayability.

[ArchangelSKT 0]

Hey, im not a pilot IRL, but if I needed to, I could fly a plane or chopper, just not as good as a qualified pilot.

And as for tanks, they have simple controls that are easy to figure out. It's like driving a car, but instead of a steering wheel, it's more like bicyle handle bars.

Well for full effect in warfare soldiers have specific training for a purpose , do you at least agree on that ?

I think that should show dependant on the class you chose in OPF 2 .

If a regular soldier picks up a sniper rifle from a dead sniper , would he be able to know how to use it to the full effect as the sniper would regarding ballistics ?

I don`t find it very appealing that any player can just jump into a chopper and fly away , same for tanks .

[Lumamorod 0]

This could be adressed in a RPG sort of way, most people would probably not like them though.

But since in OFP you create a gamer profile it could have some proficiencies attached: flight time, weapon usage etc... this would affect general precision, you would gain better control of vehicles, and better precision, steadyness with sniper rifles and other special weapons.

I agree that this was never the spirit of the game, or of this thread for that matter    .

Oh it just ocurred to me. In a way that already happens. The more you fly a chopper in OFP the better you become at it. No real need to code that.

[ArchangelSKT 0]

This could be adressed in a RPG sort of way, most people would probably not like them though.

But since in OFP you create a gamer profile it could have some proficiencies attached: flight time, weapon usage etc... this would affect general precision, you would gain better control of vehicles, and better precision, steadyness with sniper rifles and other special weapons.

I agree that this was never the spirit of the game, or of this thread for that matter    .

Oh it just ocurred to me. In a way that already happens. The more you fly a chopper in OFP the better you become at it. No real need to code that.

Yes I agree that the learning curve inside the game is a way of handling it , in that respect then I`d hope choppers and tanks in OPF2 would be a little harder to get around with then in OPF .

Probably won`t couse then it would lose players .

That being said OPF is still " King of the hill " in realism in games for me .

[SnypaUK 0]

I believe this is rather irrelevant as in OFP you had different characters doing different stuff. Anyway i think perhaps you should have an option so soldiers can fly helicopters but if the option is turned off then they cant and only pilots can fly helos only tank drivers can drive tanks etc. This would only be relevant in MP in the campaign BIS will probably have seperate characters anyway

[ArchangelSKT 0]

Well even in a SP mission it would suck if your pilot got killed and you had to make it through a hotzone on foot cause you couldn`t fly .

I would like it this way..though as a setting in the game .

- easy setting , you fly out yourself

- hard , you have to walk

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]Proper console versions can be done (eg, Morrowind), as long as the PC game ain't changed or limited by the console.

That quote in itself is nothing but a huge oxymoron... Morrowind was a terrible bastarization of Daggerfall and it's precursors. What was a huge world with a wide variety of locales and people to visit became pretty much a technology demo for the Xbox. It -was- limited by the console insofar as they decided to opt for cramped spaces and nicer visuals instead of the quantity of places and variety of locales to visit.

Not to mention the very consolish touches added to the game to mask such descisions, like adding cliff racers everywhere to restrict you from going to certain areas of the island because being able to traverse around like a normal person would be just too boring on such a small island wouldn't it?

I just hope when BIS mentions balance issues that they don't mean lowering the efficacy of bullets against infantry. I do not want to play quake with vehicles.

I don't believe that classes should be mandatory for ofp. I do think that you should be able to define certain roles. Perhaps even a list of qualifications for each individual unit if you want. However I think the standard utility-soldier is best. Being given the option to change something and make it more complicated is always better than forcing you to do things only one way. I'd dislike that.

[Fragsta 0]

I think he meant Conflict Desert Storm game, which was totally unrealistic arcade type...

It was unrealistic in the way that you cannot hold weapons the way they did, and men do not appear from nowhere. And more than that. But it was a very tactical game. Have you ever played it with three friends for hours on end? Fantastic, it's just like being in a Gulf War movie, it's really dramatic...anyway, this is the OFP forum, so I'll shut up now...

[toadeater 0]

Quote[/b] ]Proper console versions can be done (eg, Morrowind), as long as the PC game ain't changed or limited by the console.

That quote in itself is nothing but a huge oxymoron... Morrowind was a terrible bastarization of Daggerfall and it's precursors. What was a huge world with a wide variety of locales and people to visit became pretty much a technology demo for the Xbox. It -was- limited by the console insofar as they decided to opt for cramped spaces and nicer visuals instead of the quantity of places and variety of locales to visit.

I didn't mind those things about Morrowind. What I didn't like is that it's combat was so repetitive and entirely devoid of tactics. A thief-like character still had to fight like a fighter, and the "magic" basically was the same as using weapons. If you think about it, Morrowind didn't have any real levels at all, so there was no possibility of tactics.

Anyway this is the OFP2 forum so we can't talk about Morrowind so much. But my point is, I don't think Morrowind suffered because it was ported to consoles, I think they opted for that design for other reasons: no need for level design and a completely mindless AI that basically ran at you in a straight line and attacked and did nothing else.

[firedrake 0]

What worries me when I bought the original flashpoint game. The great thing about it was the AI. Having played the Delta Force series and Ghost Recon (whose AI are the worse I ever come across). In the original version of OFP AI would throw grenades, fire flares and engage an M2 in a Fortress 2 with a LAW. The enemy AI would even compensate when the original M2 gunner got killed.

After buying Red Hammer and then Resistance does this happen any more? No, the AI have got easier to kill in my opinion, even on Super AI playing the Battlefields Single Mission. I kill 20-30 AI before they even flank me when I'm just left. Your be lucky to even be hit by a grenade fired by a grenade launcher, let alone the AI chucking a grenade at you.

Another example is exiting boats in the original version, you find your feet in the water or just on the beach. In the Resistance version you find yourself magically appearing halfway up the beach. This means you and the AI don't drown anymore, get hit when exiting the boat or when the boat is blown up after exiting it, you don't go up with it . Not exactly Saving Private Ryan is it. This did again, happen in the original version.

Either the programming has alot bugs, which I find difficult to believe. Or they dumbed the game for those who play arcade like Medal of Honour.

I do own Medal of Honour but when a AI sniper can reload and shoot faster than you that it is when the game ends reality for me and the fact it takes 60 rounds to kill one AI Colonel. I like arcade games but I fine them a bit of the same format. Especially when you end up just memorising where the enemy is. Not to say have their value, Bohemia can learn alot from Medal Of Honour especially when it comes to AI in bulidings. Was I surprized when the AI threw my grenade back at me.

When OFP was released alot of people whined about dying to easily and didn't buy the game or returned it. I must admit I didn't like the game at first because of this. However this was due to my mentality of playing too many arcade games and Delta Force. I worried that Bohemia are trying to influence the Arcade players into buying. They may try to develop a hybrid to satsify everybody. They should stick to the original concept otherwise alot fans of the original game will be disappointed. I only play the original version of the game now.

My idea of a combat sim is being hit by RPG fire personally, not wanting to hear the AI soldier farting next to me.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

The appearing on the beach thing is to stop the AI drowning. They used to do that, now they don't - improvement.

I think you are having selective memory, because IMO the AI got cleverer as patches went on.

The clincher is that you refer to Medal of Honour as having AI; moreover, GOOD AI!?

Umm. No.

Medal of honour games are 99% scripted. That means that there is VERY little actual AI in the game. I would hate for OFP2 to go down the same route. Medal of honour games are universally crap, IMO - the AI does exactly the same thing every time when you stand in the little trigger zones for them.

BIS have nothing to learn from EA.

I do think that dumbing down the game for arcade players is a very bad idea, but I don't think it has happened and hopefully will not happen (Xbox OFP notwithstanding; it'll have to be dumbed down for a console release)

[Friedchiken 0]

Even Half-life had 95% scripted ai. For a game like ofp, the worlds are too big to have scripted ai. Maybe have scripts for objects so the ai have an idea how to ustilize that cover but scripted ai isn't exactly a great solution. But who has time to put ai nodes in to the ground of miles of terrein (bleh sp.)

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Even Half-life had 95% scripted ai.

No it did not. Don't make silly things like that up. There were some scripted sequences in HL but the AI was not scripted. See the grunts for example.

[firedrake 0]

There is nothing more boring than someone nickpicking you on your knowledge of programming. Did you actually read the rest of my comments. Is MoH really 99% scripted who cares, likewise I don't rant and rave and tell everybody I hate platform games.

Actually I could argue that EA at last have their weapon specifications historically accurate. I'm sure they would not not allow Ak74 to have the burst facility and not allow an East M2 Machine Gunner and actually use NSV or DSHK. Oops, I must stop showing off my knowledge of weaponary to belittle people. I should only do that if trying to get OFP2 more historically accurate.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

There is nothing more boring than someone nickpicking you on your knowledge of programming.

No, theres nothing more annoying that someone speaking nonsense and claiming to know more than they do.

Quote[/b] ]

Actually I could argue that EA at last have their weapon specifications historically accurate.

You *could*, but you'd be completely full of shite.

[Friedchiken 0]

No it did not.  Don't make silly things like that up.  There were some scripted sequences in HL but the AI was not scripted.  See the grunts for example.

well, probably that was the wrong number figure but I made a few (really crappy) HL maps.  I said HL's ai is scripted because the ai grunts ect, need the ai nodes to be programed into the map.  If the map does not have ai nodes in the maps, the ai grunts can only shoot and throw grenades.  They don't know where to move unless ai nodes are placed on the ground.  The ai in Half-life was advanced and never repetitive, but in every decent HL map, you needed to place ai nodes for movement, which I call scripting.  The female ninja jump thing is a great example because you had to place "jump nodes" for them to know that it's a good idea to jump to a higher level.

FYI, I count "unscripted ai" as ai where you can place the ai somewhere and it would have all it's features without extra information nodes in the level.  Like in Flashpoint, for the end user.

(thinking about it a little more, 1% of the permanent ai is scripted, but that's only for movement, the grunts' knowledge of teamwork is still in action even if they can't move inside a map.)

[firedrake 0]

You said it!

[Friedchiken 0]

You said it!

Though I don't like Call of Duty's AI or the MOH series'.  Half-Life's ai was fun but it always seemed that COH or MOH the ai just did the same damn tactics.  HL was good because, like in Flashpoint, the ai made its own decisions without the excessive orders of the mission maker.  AI is so much more unique and fun to play against when more initiative is given to the ai to make completly random choices.

Look at all the "evil johnny" threads in these Flashpoint Forums! Non-scripted ai isn't easy to get working but the effort was worth it.

I don't think EA has anything on BI. They just bastardize all that perfectly good info they learn from that Marine guy they hire to "immerse" the designers. Maybe BI should take a field trip and sign up for one of that guy's camps.

[The Frenchman 0]

Look at all the "evil johnny" threads in these Flashpoint Forums!

*Shivers*

The memories of evil Johnies still gives me nightmares.

[Friedchiken 0]

Yeah, especially when "bastard johnny twins" ran me over with a Jeep while blowing my head off with the machine gun at full speed.  Jeeze, they came so suddenly...  

The Retaliation campaign can be so hard at times...

[shataan 1]

In this day and age of fast food gamers, it is increasingly getting harder to find even 1 decent onfoot mil combat experience. Alround FP 1 has been the only mil combat game to deliver in most every area. It wasn`t perfect by any means, but it could have been.

We have way too many kiddiefied mil games that basically are combat skinned quakers as it is. It would be a really sad day if FP 2 succombed to the status quo and became an arcade shooter. I think I`d quit gaming altogether if this happened.

As for FP 2, I hope is something MORE than just a part 2.... that it looks way better than the best mods for FP 1, and sounds better than the best sound mods for FP 1 as well.

[Spy17 1]

Quote[/b] ]As for FP 2, I hope is something MORE than just a part 2.... that it looks way better than the best mods for FP 1, and sounds better than the best sound mods for FP 1 as well.

For me it is not so much the looks or the sounds. I hope they have better features like ari, higher viewdistance, better comand system, multiple guns, improved realism, radar....

I do not mind about the way OFP1 looks - especially if you use the mods!