War against terror

[ralphwiggum 6]

This thread is here to make sure our beloved Iraq thread does not get merged with talks about War on terror subject.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Oh no I'm not assuming the interrogators are automatically war criminals etc, it's just the way it goes, you can not automatically believe these guys were planning to cause harm to "America", they may have been doing it because of something bad they witnessed or know about the camp.

you said "good thing some people are getting the records ready for war criminal trial.", suggesting that the whole process of gaining list of interrogators are a part of steps towards war crimes trial. at this point, there is no way to say whether it is true or not. you can't prove that those who had info were doing it in good universal conscience, or they are just trying to "get even" with US or disrupt it from inside.

Quote[/b] ]So, when you graduating from that Bovine U?

I already finished bachelor's degree in meat processing, and is currently grazing in nutrition

Quote[/b] ]Does it not for a second strike you as strange, that 3 people working in the freaking holy camp of earh were trying to spy? I mean how would they get there in the first place, get cleared etc.

not really. according to many US critics, US military is the most undisciplined group of miltary, so lax background check is not a surprise. Yee was a ROTC who went to study Islam after his first service and later reenlisted. Are you suggesting that no Muslims should be allowed in US military? cause in strictest form, not having any Muslim cerics on the Gunatanamo guarantees there won't be any leak motivated by religion.

[theavonlady 2]

Soon the skies will be safer:

Quote[/b] ]Military Ready to Shoot Down Airliners - U.S. General

Thu October 2, 12:27 PM ET

By Charles Aldinger

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Air Force pilots practice weekly and are psychologically ready to shoot down civilian airliners in any new attack on America like Sept. 11, the general in charge of domestic defense said on Thursday. More...

[bn880 5]

you said "good thing some people are getting the records ready for war criminal trial.", suggesting that the whole process of gaining list of interrogators are a part of steps towards war crimes trial. at this point, there is no way to say whether it is true or not. you can't prove that those who had info were doing it in good universal conscience, or they are just trying to "get even" with US or disrupt it from inside.

I didn't really say that but it's similar. You have to get the point that I encourage free thinking, so when a situation which is international (spying) is contained within a single governments claims (USA) I want to point out the opposite of their claims to make sure people don't just swallow crap.

You can be sure for myself I am not convinced they were or were not trying to expose some crimes or if they were simply spying for some other reason. You should notice by now I come across pretty strong to bring the other side of things to the table. Never make a decision by listening to only one side of the argument, there are at least 2 sides to every story.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]So, when you graduating from that Bovine U?

I already finished bachelor's degree in meat processing, and is currently grazing in nutrition

lol, you are a model citizen

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Does it not for a second strike you as strange, that 3 people working in the freaking holy camp of earh were trying to spy? I mean how would they get there in the first place, get cleared etc.

not really. according to many US critics, US military is the most undisciplined group of miltary, so lax background check is not a surprise. Yee was a ROTC who went to study Islam after his first service and later reenlisted. Are you suggesting that no Muslims should be allowed in US military? cause in strictest form, not having any Muslim cerics on the Gunatanamo guarantees there won't be any leak motivated by religion.

Back to standard debating tactics? Are you suggesting all Muslims are to be arrested after serving for the US military?

[theavonlady 2]

Are you suggesting all Muslims are to be arrested after serving for the US military?

Practical suggestions.

[Badgerboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Jeffrey Leon Battle: An African-American convert and Army reservist, Battle awaits trial in prison on charges of "enlisting in the Reserves to receive military training to use against America."

Unbelievable! Are they just making up laws now?

Edit - After reading through the general tone of the site, and its style of writing, I wouldn't be surprised if they made the above up. It's doesn't seem to be the most un-biased of sites)

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Jeffrey Leon Battle: An African-American convert and Army reservist, Battle awaits trial in prison on charges of "enlisting in the Reserves to receive military training to use against America."

Unbelievable! Are they just making up laws now?

The fact that it's in quotes (the others aren't) might mean that someone said that this is the act performed on which charges will be based.

Quote[/b] ]Edit - After reading through the general tone of the site, and its style of writing, I wouldn't be surprised if they made the above up. It's doesn't seem to be the most un-biased of sites)

LOL! Maybe he's just telling it like it is.

[4 IN 1 0]

for me it is a "War between terror" instead of War against terror

[killagee 0]

for me it is a "War between terror" instead of War against terror

Agreed. The USA cannot be fighting a war on terror without first removing the use of terror from its standard operating doctrine. (Same goes for Russia and China etc)

The objective of destroying the 'fighting will' of a people by the use of overwhelming terror has been standard practice by all sides in State-State and assymetrical warfare this century. Germany's blitzkreig, the fire bombing of tokyo, russia in afghanistan, USA in niguragua, Iraq and Bosnia etc...The list goes on.

State and Corporate Terrorism is the real, and most dangerous threat to us all.

On that note, there is an amazing book called "Sandi Sandy" by S. R. Loyd. It is written by a french-african who after serving 6 years in the French Foreign Legion was employed by a US Property/Oil company as a mercenary to protect their interests in Nicaragua in the 80's. He led a band of thugs from all over the world, and later led all his men to switch sides after refusing to take under his command a group of US trained Contra's who had were known to have skinned alive over a hundred people

He won a bronze at special olympics in sydney too!!

[Pukko 0]

Soon the skies will be safer:

Quote[/b] ]Military Ready to Shoot Down Airliners - U.S. General

Thu October 2, 12:27 PM ET

By Charles Aldinger

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Air Force pilots practice weekly and are psychologically ready to shoot down civilian airliners in any new attack on America like Sept. 11, the general in charge of domestic defense said on Thursday. More...

 

ooohh the irony  

After clicking Avons not-quite-right-link (points to an NK bomb article) and finding the named article under topstories - I really had a good laugh. Up came a fullscreen popup ad showing a flash video from reuters seemingly exclusive advertiser. Click back and forth to 'top stories' and see for your self:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....3548422

Edit: The light version:

And on topic, I agree with the previous posters.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I didn't really say that but it's similar.  You have to get the point that I encourage free thinking, so when a situation which is international (spying) is contained within a single governments claims (USA) I want to point out the opposite of their claims to make sure people don't just swallow crap.  

You can be sure for myself I am not convinced they were or were not trying to expose some crimes or if they were simply spying for some other reason.  You should notice by now I come across pretty strong to bring the other side of things to the table.  Never make a decision by listening to only one side of the argument, there are at least 2 sides to every story.  

just because ther are two stories down't mean it is correct. for example, back in pre-GW2, TBA claimed that WMD in Iraq is a threat, while Iraq denied to have the weapons. when UN inspectors found Al-Samoud missiles, TBA called it smoking gun, and Iraq said it was not for WMD purpose.

at that point, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would consider TBA's claim to be a bit more beleiveable than Hussein's. no one knew if Iraq had the weapons or not, and two sides claimed the Al-Samoud missile to be the smoing gun or a ruse.

but existence of Al-Samoud did not constitute existence of WMD.

and for presenting views, may i suggest that you use better terms? like "could it be possible that...." instead of "they are doing it because...." ? I'm not an English major nor a communications major, but the wording of your post was good enough to claim that there are "war crimes" going on.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]So, when you graduating from that Bovine U?

I already finished bachelor's degree in meat processing, and is currently grazing in nutrition

lol, you are a model citizen

no a model m00-tizen. (ok, that was a lame joke )

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Does it not for a second strike you as strange, that 3 people working in the freaking holy camp of earh were trying to spy? I mean how would they get there in the first place, get cleared etc.

not really. according to many US critics, US military is the most undisciplined group of miltary, so lax background check is not a surprise. Yee was a ROTC who went to study Islam after his first service and later reenlisted. Are you suggesting that no Muslims should be allowed in US military? cause in strictest form, not having any Muslim cerics on the Gunatanamo guarantees there won't be any leak motivated by religion.

Back to standard debating tactics? Are you suggesting all Muslims are to be arrested after serving for the US military?

i was just showing what the ultimate alternative to your questions were. If the scheme of denying every muslim serviceman were to be implemented, then there would be no leaks as we've seen in last few weeks, thus US's system is complete? but the reality is that muslim servicemen are allowed to hold positions and that introduces some elements of possible leak.

[joltan 0]

http://w1.315.telia.com/~u31505828/Hos/discreetlyattentiveservice.jpg

Anyone else find that BA add right beside an article about shooting down civilian airplanes a little bit disturbing??? Yeah right, I'll sleep better in my great BA seat (they're even worse than most other airlines anyways) knowing there's planes outside ready shoot us down should someone try to hijack us...

[bn880 5]

I didn't really say that but it's similar. You have to get the point that I encourage free thinking, so when a situation which is international (spying) is contained within a single governments claims (USA) I want to point out the opposite of their claims to make sure people don't just swallow crap.

You can be sure for myself I am not convinced they were or were not trying to expose some crimes or if they were simply spying for some other reason. You should notice by now I come across pretty strong to bring the other side of things to the table. Never make a decision by listening to only one side of the argument, there are at least 2 sides to every story.

just because ther are two stories down't mean it is correct. for example, back in pre-GW2, TBA claimed that WMD in Iraq is a threat, while Iraq denied to have the weapons. when UN inspectors found Al-Samoud missiles, TBA called it smoking gun, and Iraq said it was not for WMD purpose.

at that point, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would consider TBA's claim to be a bit more beleiveable than Hussein's. no one knew if Iraq had the weapons or not, and two sides claimed the Al-Samoud missile to be the smoing gun or a ruse.

but existence of Al-Samoud did not constitute existence of WMD.

and for presenting views, may i suggest that you use better terms? like "could it be possible that...." instead of "they are doing it because...." ? I'm not an English major nor a communications major, but the wording of your post was good enough to claim that there are "war crimes" going on.

Hehe, ok ok, you are just trying to be politically correct, I was not really. There is a lot more to the way I can say something like that than what I believe. Like i said. You got the impression I thought for sure it was about war crimes, and the US govt. gave the impression it was purely about spying. So everyhting is OK in terms of what I wanted to discuss. We are pretty clear now we don't know exactly if they are guilty of spying or not, or if they were trying to reveal crimes.

[Badgerboy 0]

http://w1.315.telia.com/~u31505828/Hos/discreetlyattentiveservice.jpg

Anyone else find that BA add right beside an article about shooting down civilian airplanes a little bit disturbing??? Yeah right, I'll sleep better in my great BA seat (they're even worse than most other airlines anyways) knowing there's planes outside ready shoot us down should someone try to hijack us...

BA bad? Hardly! Free booze and food, fine seats, good service, DVD's, and the fact that I get 90% off all my tickets!

(You have to fly BA first class at least once. I still have my leather washbag I was given. Think I gave away all the other freebies I got)

[Milkman 1]

The seats are kinda small, but the service beats any of the airlines here in america.

[Acecombat 0]

Hah BA shut down its crappy flights in SA *thank you*

On suspicions that M-16 or intelligence agency had told thm that they can expect an attack on their assets here ..*what assets? no good plane? *....

They even showed a full pic of a Saudi guy (actually a palestinian) carrying some SAM launcher in hs hand as a threat to them...how lame can you get?

[joltan 0]

Sure, First and business class are usually fine on all lines, but that's not what I'm used to flying (not even on business trips).

I heard that domestic flights in the US suck, but free meals and stuff are pretty standard in Europe, so nothing special for BA there - but having to squeeze yourself (no, I'm not overweight) into their seats on an intercontinental flight for over eight hours straight IS a pain, and just a few hours on a normal flight are worse enough. Even American Airlines (they have free food and drinks at least on intercontinental flights, too) has more room.

The article about fighter planes waiting to shoot down passenger planes is just the cream on the cake when looking at the picture of someone sleeping well on board of a BA plane. (I better stop now... memory about my last flight with them is still to fresh).

Back on topic: couldn't they use these planes istead of those spacious C130s to transport the 'terrorists' to the camps???

[Acecombat 0]

Have you ever sat in a C-130? Its no walk in the park

It shakes too much and the burrring voice of engine is enough torture to keep u awake

Even after you disembark your body keeps on shaking internally..

[theavonlady 2]

Lots of interesting reading in this news article:

Terrorist Scenario Puts New-Look NATO to Test.

Includes an idea for an OFP mission. Any takers?

[ralphwiggum 6]

The Appearance of Progress

U.S. Pledges to Help Rebuild a Crucial Road in Afghanistan

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/afghan_road031012.html

Quote[/b] ]K A B U L, Afghanistan, Oct. 12— It has been almost two years since the Taliban was defeated in Afghanistan's capital, but much of the country remains in ruins.

The Afghan government says it needs $15 billion in foreign aid over the next five years to rebuild roads, irrigation systems and other infrastructure. So far, only $4.5 billion has been pledged.

"The amount of aid is negligible — $4.5 billion won't even fix our roads," said the country's finance minister, Ashraf Ghani, who returned to his native country after the ouster of Taliban.

Afghanistan's ‘American Road’

The main highway from Kabul to Kandahar is known as the "American Road" because President Bush promised to rebuild it by the end of the year.

But it is still mostly dirt, and at least five collapsed bridges are in disrepair, which poses major economic problems, since it is a crucial artery for the Afghan economy.

The road is a perfect metaphor for what has happened all over Afghanistan. The international community has pledged less than the government says it needs, and it has received less than was promised. The result is that very little has been rebuilt.

According to some Afghan bus drivers, the "American Road" is also becoming too dangerous to use because armed thieves target the slow-moving traffic. Similarly, relief aid workers say the condition of the road is hindering their work.

"There have been a lot more incidents of people being attacked, bus being attacked, and aid workers being attacked. And that is obviously of concern to aid workers and is having a detrimental effect on aid work," said Sally Austin, assistant country director of CARE International in Afghanistan.

Such incidents are why President Bush wants the road to be paved by the end of the year — all 245 miles of it.

But army engineers who have studied the project say that timetable does not provide enough time to rebuild it properly.

So in order to meet the tight deadline, the "American Road" will get just one layer of asphalt this year instead of the standard three.

That way, the president's pledge will appear, at least on the surface, to be fulfilled in a country where even the appearance of progress is a big step forward.

[Acecombat 0]

Whats the matter no one seems to like Afghanistan now?

Oh the hawks have their eyes all set on the golden goose Iraq

@Avon : whats the mission idea? Dont tell me once again you have to bust a soviet scud?

[Supah 0]

The Appearance of Progress

U.S. Pledges to Help Rebuild a Crucial Road in Afghanistan

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/afghan_road031012.html

Quote[/b] ]snip

The article says it allready. The job is going to be botched just so Mr. Bush can appear to have kept his promise. But is the road going to last? No, one layer of asphalt is going to break real soon needing endless repairs. I'd say drop the deadline, better a good road then a political promise kept. Bush has broken so many of his promisses that one more wont matter.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Pentagon sources say two Americans civilians -- identified as U.S. State Department contract workers -- were killed in a raid against suspected Taliban and al Qaeda forces Saturday southwest of the Afghan border town of Shkin.

The sources said Monday that the two were State Department contract workers, but a State Department official said it had no information on any of its contractors being killed, and none would have been involved in this type of operation.

In the raid, 10 suspected enemy fighters were killed by Afghan army troops backed up by U.S. helicopters and war planes, the Pentagon sources said Monday.

But in the firefight two U.S. civilians were killed, according to Pentagon officials. The officials said the two were working with the Afghan army troops. One Pentagon official said the two apparently were hit by "armor piercing rounds."

While some sources indicated to CNN the dead Americans may been working for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA referred all inquiries to the State Department.

"They are listed as State Department contract security officers," a U.S. official told CNN.

But the State Department official disputed that. "None of our guys got hit," the official said. "We don't know who these guys are."

State Department employees taking part on Provincial Reconstruction Teams, which travel the country in convoys seeking out areas that need reconstruction assistance, travel only with U.S. civilian military officers and do not engage in active combat, the official said.

The rocky border area -- along the border with Pakistan -- has been the scene of a number of fierce battles recently in which U.S. military forces and their Afghan allies have mounted attacks against resurgent Taliban and al Qaeda guerrillas.

[Acecombat 0]

And the stupid political rivalry among intelligence guru's continues.....

One says it wasnt ours so does the others then who were those guys?

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Two Americans killed in a recent ambush in Afghanistan were contract employees of the CIA, the agency said Tuesday.

In a written statement, the CIA said William Carlson of Southern Pines, North Carolina, and Christopher Glenn Mueller of San Diego, California, were civilian contractors for the agency who were tracking terrorists when they died Saturday.

CIA Director George Tenet said the two men were "defined by dedication and courage."

The CIA said Carlson and Mueller were longtime military Special Operations veterans before their work for the agency.