War against terror

[Panda-PL- 0]

Quote[/b] ]They have radical ways of getting their point across, and now the US is using radical ways to kill them.

Taht's a good one.

So, you think that having enought money or superior firepower does You any good?

Now p-l-e-a-s-e someone bring the discussion back to a more acceptable iontelectual level.

[philcommando 0]

Panda[PL]

Quote[/b] ]Taht's a good one.

So, you think that having enought money or superior firepower does You any good?

While his views might be strong, lets respect those who died and friends or victims who died. A time of rationality had died when CIVILIANs died for no other reason than for propaganda purposes, treated just like an inconsequential leaflet.

Do we question the police for carrying a gun when he goes on his rounds to ensure our security? Do we question the budget allocation for security personnel and make sure it is sufficient that they are capable to protect us and protect themselves as well when dealing with arm and dangerous criminals?

Edit:- While it may not be sufficient to deal with cunning criminals, are there any better solutions that had not been tried for the past 4 years?

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Now p-l-e-a-s-e someone bring the discussion back to a more acceptable iontelectual level.

Whipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!    

Really ,i wished some discussion would be more rational and less emotional ,but i guess that's not easy when rubble is still smouldering.  

Or even more ,i wish people who were emotionally involved wouldn't participate themself in rational discussions ,if a rational discussion is On-toppic then plz don't flood it with irrational emotional reactions.

[Panda-PL- 0]

I do understand that. Felt the same way yesterday. But everyone can speak their opinion (even The Avon Lady ) and they are invited to do so.

Quote[/b] ]Do we question the police for carrying a gun when he goes on his rounds to ensure our security?

You misenderstood me.

What I ment by that It's just that it takes more then gun's caliber to ensure peace.

If you gave all policeman .50 cal riffles would that help them in work?

Overwhelming firepower alone will not do.

It's more a question of identifying threats - their elimination once You find them is simple. But that's so obvious... at least it was before I read some posts. Soime people would think that fighting terrorism requires military only.

[edit]Absolutely no hostility towards them in this post.

[philcommando 0]

Aoollo, you can rationalize or intellectualize it all you want, but the dead can no longer be just a statistical figure anymore. Tell it to the kid in his face who lost his father in 911 and ask him to rationalize his father's death today.

Its no longer 'rationalicism' or 'intellectualicism' anymore. Criminals must be brought to justice now or only more deaths will follow. Its one thing to die in an accident and another to die for criminal's propaganda. Its call premeditate murder in the case for the criminal, a devious act well thought out in advance.

[Panda-PL- 0]

Aoollo, you can rationalize or intellectualize it all you want...

I agree. I even agreed a few pages before <---

The solution however must be found in a rational way. Anger is not a good advisor.

Apollo might be a bit too rational in his comparisions and analises, but that must be his character's feature.

Everyone's toughed by what happend. Even if they don't show it.

[edit]Well I'm out for tooday.

Be nice! ;D

[philcommando 0]

Cynic's Thrash

It is to be expected. Sooner or later, some jerk will make an attempt for 5 mins of fame.

I only wondered why he didnt blame it on UFOs. It's the current rage in Mexico and more believable.

The past few days, there was no rain. When i decided to hit town without an umbrella, it rained. The CIA must have been responsible for it, cos they were not happy that i made addons for ofp used by foriegn powers!

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Now p-l-e-a-s-e someone bring the discussion back to a more acceptable iontelectual level.

Whipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!    

Panda, Apollo and anyone else with an opinion, by all means please feel free to describe what you believe victory will look like in the War on Terrorism.

Hint:  It is impossible for Al Qaida to surrender, even if Osama emerged from a cave with his hands in the air.

Most of this thread is filled with bitter thoughts of revenge with little regard for preventing tomorrow's suffering.  You're not going to win this fight until you become as concerned about facing the parents of tomorrow's victims as you are about facing the parents of yesterday's.

[Bordoy 0]

Cynic's Thrash

Matt Hutaf (The Author) Fuck Off

Can't believe he's already asking questions makes me mad

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Aoollo, you can rationalize or intellectualize it all you want

Listen phil ,you know i have respect for you as an addonmaker ,but i'm not going to continue with you in discussion because it's no discussion ,if i handle youre remarks point by point then you just reply the same thing all over withought expanding onto the discussion in a rational way.

Well yes ,thats youre point above there.But Phil ,this is a discussion board ,and in discussions rational points win over emotional and biased reactions ,actually in a debate such reactions have no place.

Or like panda noted:

Quote[/b] ]The solution however must be found in a rational way. Anger is not a good advisor.

And therefore i'm discussing in a rational way ,it's the only way really ,youre emotional reactions are more out of place ,although i can understand such reactions for people involved.

Btw ,my oppinions arn't perfect.While i have thought a lot about them ,and thus have a solid bases to discuss from ,also having an adequate knowledge off history.But as Panda did show ,my oppinions do have limitations ,for ex. when comparing Iraq to Vietnam ,my points do have value on certain levels ,but i cannnot know all factor's involved that will finaly make up the final result.this is also the limitations of discussions ,NOONE knows all the factor's ,noone can predict how actions will turn out ,noone is perfect ,but some oppinions are clearly more true than others ,especially if they can be proven.

if a discussion board would only fill threads with emotional reactions ,then there wouldn't be a discussion board ,being rational is being On-topic.

[Garcia 0]

Only way I could imagine the world would be able to stop all terrorism, would be if they in some way managed to do what they do in Minority Report...so they could prevent crimes/murders/terrorism before it happened by reading the furture...which is quite a long shot and a silly thought...as long as there are people with free will, and as long as it's possible to get hold of some weapons, there will be terrorist attacks...

of course, you could in some way send the world back to the stoneage...would be kinda hard for terrorists to attack with sticks and stones...

IMO it's naive to think you can prevent ALL terrorism...you can decrease it to a minimum, but not remove it 100%...

[ralphwiggum 6]

SPQR

Quote[/b] ]Justice or Revenge ?

There's some people who prefer to charge muslims with keeping silence about terrorist groups and their acts and non-action if not full support, swankly waving the flag of Freedom and Liberty, shouting "In God we Trust" or "God,love and save my ass" and arguing with a two cents' philosophy.

Better a 2 cents philosophy than nonsensical trash comming  out of a juvenile delinquent's mouth who had earlier been slapped, now trying to act cool. I know teenagers who write better, but than, some spent several thousands of dollars on an experiment to see if monkeys can write better than shakespeare when given computers, this must have been the experiment. Cant really expect a monkey to understand what's the difference between justice and revenge anyway.

nice job calling names. expect a news from one of mods.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I think Ken Livingston exactly captured the British and Londoners mood as regard the bombings.

Quote[/b] ]8 July 2005

LIVINGSTON: LONDONERS MUST KEEP LIVING THEIR LIVES

MAYOR Ken Livingston today told Londoners to keep on living life to the full in a direct snub to the terrorist madmen.

He looked back on a week of "triumph and tragedy" for the capital, which awarded the 2012 Olympics on Wednesday before the bombings, before delivering his rallying call.

Mr Livingston said Londoners must continue to enjoy life in the city which is famous for its tolerance and freedom – qualities he said were part of the reason the International Olympic Committee handed the capital the games in 2012.

And he praised the tolerance of Londoners in not suffering from a knee-jerk reaction and targeting innocent Muslims with hate crimes as has happened in other parts of the world.

He said: "I will use the Underground to go to work on Monday as normal and that is the advice I would give to every Londoner - that we should keep enjoying the city and living and working in the city."

The Mayor went on praised the work of emergency services and transport staff for their "incredible effort" and "acts of courage and selfless dedication".

He added: "Everything we had planned for on this day we knew would happen, worked like clockwork.†...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news....ge.html

I will be moving back down to London later this year as my brother is now better and should be good enough to look after himself now. Depsite being born and bred in South Yorkshire, London is the place I have lived most of my life and I am proud to call london my home. Most of my friends live there and they come from all parts of the UK and the rest of the world.

The odd bomb and a few dead and injured is not going to bother a Londoner there are are millions of us and thousands more join us every day, the IRA bomb that blew up Holborn it shook my flat and rattled the windows, I cycled to work at the University the next day right past it same as all the rest of London's commuters did and will again on this Monday.

Londoners will be going to the pubs and clubs tonight or going to the cinema, climbing in their local climbing wall, watching plays in the theatres, going to church on Sunday and yes mosque on Friday. They will be visiting the nice restaurants of Stoke Newington, Soho and Islington, for good meals of every thing from Indian curry to Tibetan thupkas to Iranian sweets to US hamburgers, to italian pizzas, restaurants they will have learned about in their copy of Timeout along with the thousands of films that were on and and the plays filling the theatres. They will go to the thousands of night classes listed in city lit. Taking visiting family around the museums and art galleries. They will be shopping in Oxford street, buying houses in mayfair, having raves in warehouses, going to the Spanish festival, watching the fire works on the river by the south bank, protesting about wars and poverty, doing business deals in the city, fighting for and against fox hunting. Taking the kids to the park, swimming at the lido. We are Londoners we do all that and more, all the bomber has is their bomb.

If some idiots think a few bombs scare a Londoner they need to try dodging black cabs on a bicycle in the rush hour before we had congestion charging or perhaps remeber we survived the blitz.

Kind Regards Walker happy to soon be back being a Londoner

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]If some idiots think a few bombs scare a Londoner they need to try dodging black cabs on a bicycle in the rush hour before we had congestion charging.

Funny. i think livingstons reaction is a good to.

This kind of Brittish mentally reminds me of so many thing's.Just of the bat ,i would say that in the 80's the Argy's probably never expected the UK neither to send most of the fleet to recapture a small island inhabitant by a mere 1000 sheepherders ,i guess thats typical Brittish ,and it reminds me a bit of the Kolonol in "bridge over the river Kwai".

[Bernadotte 0]

if a discussion board would only fill threads with emotional reactions ,then there wouldn't be a discussion board ,being rational is being On-topic.

Oh the irony.

Then perhaps you should stop discussing the nature of the discussion and get back to discussing the topic.

[Apollo 0]

if a discussion board would only fill threads with emotional reactions ,then there wouldn't be a discussion board ,being rational is being On-topic.

Oh the irony.

Then perhaps you should stop discussing the nature of the discussion and get back to discussing the topic.

Well ,why didn't you just start?  

Oh the Irony...  

I replied of topic on the ontopic nature of this discussion because i was forced to layout the rule of discussion in a discussion enviroment.

So that means your spamming by this reaction in off-topic and forcing me to react off-topic ,so stop spamming Bernadotte ,or i will be forced to report youre post to a moderator.    

[pandalefou 0]

Quote[/b] ]-Did you see Farenheit 911 ? it's a great movie about your president

That movie is complete crap, not worth watching. It's completely subjective

Yeah sure it's subjective BUT all the facts ARE RIGHT...

[Bernadotte 0]

The odd bomb and a few dead and injured is not going to bother a Londoner there are are millions of us and more join us every day...

Nice words, Walker, but I hope you don't really believe this is about body counts.  Most reasonable analyses of these attacks have concluded that the terrorists were primarily concerned with causing disruption.  The death toll could very easily have been much higher had they wanted it to be.

No, Londoners may not have been bothered, but the transit and communications systems were killed for a day.  And that means businesses suffered enormously.  I wouldn't want to be a managing director who only recently convinced his CEO to move back to London after years of IRA disruption.  I wouldn't want to be Lloyds of London.  They have most certainly been bothered by this.

[Bernadotte 0]

Well ,why didn't you just start?  

Oh the Irony...  

I did.  Here it is again:

Quote[/b] ]Now p-l-e-a-s-e someone bring the discussion back to a more acceptable iontelectual level.

Whipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!    

Panda, <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Apollo</span> and anyone else with an opinion, by all means please feel free to describe what you believe victory will look like in the War on Terrorism.

Hint:  It is impossible for Al Qaida to surrender, even if Osama emerged from a cave with his hands in the air.

Most of this thread is filled with bitter thoughts of revenge with little regard for preventing tomorrow's suffering.  You're not going to win this fight until you become as concerned about facing the parents of tomorrow's victims as you are about facing the parents of yesterday's.

Looking foreward to your reply.

[Apollo 0]

Uh... OK.

Quote[/b] ]Panda, Apollo and anyone else with an opinion, by all means please feel free to describe what you believe victory will look like in the War on Terrorism.

Well i figure total victory will be when there are no terrorists anymore ,and limited victory when the terrorist threat is erradicated mostly.

On youre question on how such an abract thing as "victory" looks like ,then id say i dont know ,but i think it's blue ,has about the form of a synagoge split in 2 ,but put back toghether with glue?  

You might notice that actually i have no real fitting answer on youre question...

Quote[/b] ]Hint: It is impossible for Al Qaida to surrender, even if Osama emerged from a cave with his hands in the air.

I would think that Al Qaida wouldn't surrender if they lost Osama ,although it could be a major PR blow for them ,but basicly many branches of Al-Qaida alreay work fairly if not tottaly indipendant ,and it's known that Al-Qaida appoints strongmen under each cell ,like Mohamed Atta with the 9/11 terrorists.And there are also the allies of Al-Qaida ,those fighting against the same enemy's in the same ways ,buty with other goals and other structure ,like the terrorist branch of Chechen rebels ,or groupings like Abu Sayef.

[Bernadotte 0]

Only way I could imagine the world would be able to stop all terrorism, would be if they in some way managed to do what they do in Minority Report...so they could prevent crimes/murders/terrorism before it happened by reading the furture...which is quite a long shot and a silly thought...as long as there are people with free will, and as long as it's possible to get hold of some weapons, there will be terrorist attacks...

Sad, but true.

IMO it's naive to think you can prevent ALL terrorism...you can decrease it to a minimum, but not remove it 100%...

Mankind has never and probably will never exist without some level of terrorism, unfortunately.

[miles teg 1]

Think a little harder Apollo....    how will you eliminate all the terrorists....how do you even know who's a terrorist and who's a friendly Muslim?   How do you combat an enemy hidden in sovereign nations allied to the West that even those countries are having difficult destroying or are ignoring???   From what I've heard and read, Islamic extremism is only growing and not shrinking in this war on terror.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[walker 0]

Nice words, Walker, but I hope you don't really believe this is about body counts.

Hi Bernadotte

I do mean what I said exactly what I said no quibles, if, buts or maybes. I mean exactly what I said. We kicked the black shirrts out of London in the battle of cable street. We survived the blitz there were a lot more bombs then and thousands of us died.

If your hypothetical CEO left London he would never have a home, because the bomber could always chase him from it. And in London there would be a thousand to replace him the very next day.

I will repeat myself in case you missed some of my edits

Quote[/b] ]The odd bomb and a few dead and injured is not going to bother a Londoner there are are millions of us and thousands more join us every day, the IRA bomb that blew up Holborn it shook my flat and rattled the windows, I cycled to work at the University the next day right past it same as all the rest of London's commuters did and will again on this Monday.

Londoners will be going to the pubs and clubs tonight or going to the cinema, climbing in their local climbing wall, watching plays in the theatres, going to church on Sunday and yes mosque on Friday. They will be visiting the nice restaurants of Stoke Newington, Soho and Islington, for good meals of every thing from Indian curry to Tibetan thupkas to Iranian sweets to US hamburgers, to italian pizzas, restaurants they will have learned about in their copy of Timeout along with the thousands of films that were on and and the plays filling the theatres. They will go to the thousands of night classes listed in city lit. Taking visiting family around the museums and art galleries. They will be shopping in Oxford street, buying houses in mayfair, having raves in warehouses, going to the Spanish festival, watching the fire works on the river by the south bank, protesting about wars and poverty, doing business deals in the city, fighting for and against fox hunting. Taking the kids to the park, swimming at the lido. We are Londoners we do all that and more, all the bomber has is their bomb.

If some idiots think a few bombs scare a Londoner they need to try dodging black cabs on a bicycle in the rush hour before we had congestion charging or perhaps remember we survived the blitz.

Kind Regards Walker happy to soon be back being a Londoner

The bombers are pussies. Frightened little lonely pussies. Londoners are not afraid of pussies.

Kind regards walker

[miles teg 1]

...and the bombers aren't afraid of Londoners or anyone for that matter except for Allah.  

Make them believe they are violating the laws of Allah (and in jeapordy of eternal hellfire) according to their religion and you take away their biggest motivation.

http://www.slate.com/id/2100581/entry/2100586

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Bernadotte 0]

Nice words, Walker, but I hope you don't really believe this is about body counts.

I do mean what I said exactly what I said no quibles, if, buts or maybes. I mean exactly what I said.

Well, then best of luck with your body count contest.