War against terror

[bn880 5]

no no, that's 2^8, he must have read 28 as 2^8

Edit: talking about IQ scores is really not the way to go in a debate... mainly because it shows insecurity above all else.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Why? I have a proven IQ of 123 approved by the Institute of "Angewandte Psychologie Zürich". The problem is only that I am such a disturbed and confused man that I cant make use of my potential. I am as useless as a 60 year old man with the first symptoms of Alzheimer.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Afghans Arrest Americans in Abuse Case

8 minutes ago

By AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writer

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghan forces arrested three Americans, including a purported former Green Beret, after raiding a jail they were allegedly running in the Afghan capital and finding prisoners hanging from their feet, officials said Thursday.

The U.S. military, facing a widening inquiry into prisoner abuse, quickly distanced itself from the three, who had been posing as American agents before being detained Monday. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Thursday "the U.S. government does not employ or sponsor these men."

Afghan officials also dismissed claims by the apparent ringleader, Jonathan K. Idema, that he was a "special adviser" to their security forces, saying the three had posed as military agents on a self-appointed hunt for terrorists.

The Americans and four Afghans who were detained along with them "formed a group and pretended they were fighting terrorism," Interior Minister Ali Ahmad Jalali said. "They arrested eight people from across Kabul and put them in their jail."

Another Afghan security official said intelligence and police officials who raided the group's house Monday found the prisoners strung up by their feet.

"They were hanging upside down," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He said a report showed the men also were beaten.

Jalali said the Americans had no "legal link" to any Afghan or other authorities.

Still, officials said they were seen regularly around Kabul wearing military uniforms and armed with assault rifles.

Idema, described in media reports as an ex-special forces operative known as "Jack," first appeared in Afghanistan (news - web sites) in late 2001, when U.S. and allied Afghan forces routed the Taliban.

He featured prominently in a top-selling book, "The Hunt for Bin Laden," which says he fought for 10 months alongside the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance.

He also offered his services to Western television networks, including an apparent al-Qaida training video.

On Thursday, police gave an Associated Press reporter a business card apparently handed out by Idema.

The card bears an Afghan flag with a small Stars-and-Stripes at its center and a Northern Alliance flag. "Special Adviser" is printed on the bottom and "Jack" is scrawled in the Dari language at the top. None of the three phone numbers worked.

In Washington, Boucher confirmed Idema was one of the men in custody and identified another as Brent Bennett. He gave no other details.

One police official said Idema's group appeared to be behind the disappearance of a man in west Kabul three weeks ago.

The missing man was identified as Abdul Latif, and his wife told authorities she believed he had been taken into custody by members of the NATO (news - web sites)-led force that patrols the capital, said the police official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

He said three foreigners, dressed in military uniforms, returned to the house earlier this week, where police confronted them.

He said a man called Jack told the officers he had orders to arrest a terrorist before he could blow himself up in a government building. The three said they belonged to "an important network," but gave no other details, the police official said.

Jalali said all eight prisoners found Monday were released. It was not clear how long they had been held.

There was no sign of Latif, however, at his house in a quiet residential street of Kabul's Khoshal Khan district.

Two men who answered the door Thursday said they were refugees who had returned recently from Iran and the previous tenant's wife had recently moved out.

Idema and the two others were seized by Afghan police and intelligence officers in downtown Kabul on Monday. Jalali said the men were operating in Kabul under the guise of working for an export company.

On Thursday, uniformed Afghan intelligence officers refused to admit reporters into the house where the eight prisoners had been found in the city's Kart-e-Parwan district, which was barely visible over a high wall topped with barbed wire.

Residents said foreigners had lived there and they had noticed nothing suspicious.

The U.S. military took the unusual step Monday — before news of his detention was widely known — of distancing itself from Idema, saying in a statement: "The public should be aware that Idema does not represent the American government and we do not employ him."

A spokeswoman would give no details of Idema's activities, insisting Afghan authorities were leading the investigation.

U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Beth Lee said Thursday the Americans had been visited by U.S. officials, but she had no information on whether the United States had sought to take them into custody.

Afghans Arrest Americans

Good thing Abu Gharib was a fluke. I was beginning to worry.

[Apollo 0]

I wouldn't lie, to have such a humongous IQ ,you's drpobably have some syndromes from it like autism etc. .I myself am hyperkenetic and while Hyperkenetic people are usually seen as keen and intelligent people they are also seen as incredibly impulsive and unable to complete certain tasks etc. ,and yes in a debate IQ shouldn't matter as there are zillion's of possibilety's why one's oppinion can be wrong.

[denoir 0]

Pentagon releases Swedish man held at Guantanamo [REUTERS]

Quote[/b] ]

WASHINGTON, July 8 (Reuters) - The Pentagon said on Thursday it released a Swedish man held for more than two years at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to Sweden, which criticized the United States for holding prisoners with "no legal basis."

Sweden had pressed the United States to resolve the case of Mehdi-Muhammed Ghezali, who was held by the United States as a terrorism suspect without criminal charges or access to a lawyer.

A total of 147 Guantanamo prisoners have been released or sent to their home countries for further imprisonment, while about 594 prisoners remain at Guantanamo, the Pentagon said.

"It is highly gratifying that the Swedish citizen at Guantanamo has finally been released," Minister for Foreign Affairs Laila Freivalds said in a statement from Stockholm.

"Sweden is an active participant in the fight against international terrorism. To be conducted as effectively as possible, this fight is dependent on extensive international cooperation, not least in police matters," Freivalds said.

"But it must not be conducted with means that lie outside the limits defined in the international legal system. That is why we in Sweden have been unable to accept individuals being held at Guantanamo with no legal basis. This has been the principle upon which we have acted," Freivalds added.

Human rights groups have called Guantanamo a "legal black hole" where the United States holds prisoners indefinitely and with no access to lawyers. Rights activists also have accused the United States of using interrogation methods that amount to torture.

'INTENSIVE CONTACTS'

The Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs said Ghezali's release followed "intensive contacts between Sweden and the United States during the spring and summer." It said Ghezali was being flown to Sweden.

Ghezali's father, a Muslim of Algerian origin, has said his son was studying in Pakistan in 2001 but had nothing to do with al Qaeda, blamed for the September 2001 attacks on the United States. Most of the prisoners held at Guantanamo were picked up in the ensuing U.S.-led operation in Afghanistan.

The Ministry for Foreign Affairs said Swedish officials raised the issue with U.S. President George W. Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell. The statement referred to "measures that Swedish law enforcement authorities may take when the man has returned to Sweden," but provided no details.

The Pentagon did not give specific reasons for the first such release of a Guantanamo prisoner since April.

"The decision to transfer or release a detainee is based on many factors, including whether the detainee is of further intelligence value to the United States and whether he is believed to pose a threat to the United States or whether the individual has committed offenses triable by military commission," the Pentagon said in a statement.

The United States has returned 135 prisoners from Guantanamo to their home countries for release and sent another 12 for continued detention in Saudi Arabia, Spain and Russia, the Pentagon said.

"A determination about the detention and release of a detainee is based on the best information and evidence available at the time. The circumstances in which detainees are apprehended can be ambiguous, and many of them are highly skilled in concealing the truth," the Pentagon said.

Finally. He arrived in Sweden today on a Swedish government plane and was released immideately and united with his family. His father fought for a long time to get him released.

He was in Pakistan when he was arrested by the Pakistani police and handed over to US troops. According to him and his family he was in Pakistan studying and had no connection whatsoever to AQ or the Taliban.

[BoweryBaker 0]

Did ya'll hear about the twist in the Iraqi war? This one group says they'll kill anyone who defends Saddam Hussein. These guys don't play around.

[Rishon 0]

Did ya'll hear about the twist in the Iraqi war? This one group says they'll kill anyone who defends Saddam Hussein. These guys don't play around.

Sweet, That sounds good, DIE HIPPIES!! Just kidding.

[Akira 0]

Did ya'll hear about the twist in the Iraqi war? This one group says they'll kill anyone who defends Saddam Hussein. These guys don't play around.

Are you talking about the group that told Al Zarqui (sp) to get the hell out of Iraq? If not post a source for wha you are talking about.

Also make note....just because the threaten Saddam defenders doesn't necessarily mean that they have a fuzzy feeling for the US.

[BoweryBaker 0]

it was either fox or cnn news. i was watching it this morning. ill check both their sites.

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/13/binladen.aide/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- A close associate of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was flown to Saudi Arabia on Tuesday after surrendering at the Saudi Embassy in Iran, a Saudi Interior Ministry official said.

"He was a big fish," one Saudi official said of Khaled al-Harbi, who was believed to have been living near the Afghan-Iranian border.

The Saudi government offered leniency to al Qaeda suspects who turn themselves in during a one-month period.

The June 23 offer would exempt them from the death penalty in Saudi Arabia but not from lawsuits by their victims' families.

One Saudi security official said al-Harbi's status is "a tricky situation" because technically he is not eligible for the offer.

It was made to suspects in attacks inside Saudi Arabia, the official said, and does not apply to those wanted for attacks in other countries.

Al-Harbi has never been charged with any attacks inside Saudi Arabia, he said.

The official said it is unlikely al-Harbi would be allowed to go free.

After arriving in Saudi Arabia, al-Harbi made a statement broadcast on Saudi TV.

"I called the embassy, and we felt that we were welcomed, they were among family. Thank God for this blessing," he said.

"I came because I abide by the word of God and that of the caretaker of the holy sites. This initiative from the caretaker of the holy sites and the king is an opportunity. And our country is the country of Islam.

"Undoubtedly, it is an opportunity any logical man would thank God -- every logical man should take advantage of this opportunity."

Video aired Tuesday by the Arabic television network Al-Arabiya showed al-Harbi being carried from a plane and placed in a wheelchair.

Al-Harbi is believed to have fought with bin Laden against Russian forces in Afghanistan about 20 years ago. Saudi officials said they believe al-Harbi returned to Afghanistan in the mid-1990s, joining up with al Qaeda.

In late 2001, he was identified on a videotape conversing with bin Laden about the September 11 terrorist attacks.

"Hundreds of people used to doubt you and few only would follow you until this huge event happened," al-Harbi tells bin Laden on the videotape. "Now hundreds of people are coming out to join you."

On the tape, bin Laden implies responsibility for the 9/11 attacks on New York's World Trade Center. "We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors," he said. "I was the most optimistic of them all. ... Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for."

[mr_rOk 0]

@ rishon

How old are you? Like 15 maybe?

An IQ of 156 shouldn't let ego talk, but brains!!!

I'm sorry but a couple of your posts REALLY negate this number you gave.

I ain't gonna say the L word, but whats a smart guy like you doing service as a grunt? At least you said in your posts that you are a soldier who was in Iraq.

I wonder how big of an IQ a general has? 1000?

oh and it's called sarcasm!!!

[BoweryBaker 0]

Guerillas are some of the most dangerous fighters. They're mainly on foot which is largely undetectable amongst the concrete jungle of those buildings where they can hide n stuff. It's crazy how they just pop out a window and fire an rpg at a hummer and duck back inside and go to friggin sleep.

[ralphwiggum 6]

@ rishon

How old are you? Like 15 maybe?

An IQ of 156 shouldn't let ego talk, but brains!!!

I'm sorry but a couple of your posts REALLY negate this number you gave.

I ain't gonna say the L word, but whats a smart guy like you doing service as a grunt? At least you said in your posts that you are a soldier who was in Iraq.

I wonder how big of an IQ a general has? 1000?

oh and it's called sarcasm!!!

please refrain from name calling.

[USSoldier11B 0]

Guerillas are some of the most dangerous fighters.  They're mainly on foot which is largely undetectable amongst the concrete jungle of those buildings where they can hide n stuff.  It's crazy how they just pop out a window and fire an rpg at a hummer and duck back inside and go to friggin sleep.

Yes, but they can be some of the most incompetent as well. The media doesn't crank out the numbers on how many of them are getting waxed.

[Ironsight 1]

Guerillas are some of the most dangerous fighters.  They're mainly on foot which is largely undetectable amongst the concrete jungle of those buildings where they can hide n stuff.  It's crazy how they just pop out a window and fire an rpg at a hummer and duck back inside and go to friggin sleep.

Yes, but they can be some of the most incompetent as well. The media doesn't crank out the numbers on how many of them are getting waxed.

True, but are mostly more motivated then normal soldiers and that's what is making them so dangerous.

Khaled al-Harbi: send him to GITMO he deserves it.

[bn880 5]

Yes, but they can be some of the most incompetent as well. The media doesn't crank out the numbers on how many of them are getting waxed.

Trust me, some people have an idea... They are _usually_ not extremely coordinated/trained now are they. I've seen a lot of "crazy" fighting on their part, no other way to put it.

[walker 0]

Hi all

ITS! Time to play OSAMA LOTTO!

Yes you can win money for your School by betting when Osama will be Found.

http://www.bushflash.com/lotto.html

Yes just got to the booky of your choice and bet when Osama Bin Laden will be found! Remember the odds are shortening everyday.

This is a great game for all the family.

Kind Regards Walker

[Akira 0]

Private "War On Terror"

Quote[/b] ]KABUL (AFP) - A US citizen in court charged with running a private "war on terror" in Afghanistan (news - web sites) claimed he and two other Americans were working with the full knowledge of US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Jonathan Idema, who denies charges he detained and tortured Afghan citizens without US government consent, said they were hunting terrorists under the auspices of the Pentagon (news - web sites) and said they had since been abandoned by US authorities.

"The American authorities absolutely condoned what we did, they absolutely supported what we did. We have extensive evidence of that," said Idema, who is on trial with his subordinates Brent Bennett and Edward Caraballo.

US-led coalition forces have disavowed all ties with Idema, while international peacekeeping troops said they were duped into helping Idema's team, who wore US-style uniforms, believing they were legitimate special forces operatives.

Judge Abdul Baset Bahktiari allowed the three men and four Afghan associates on trial with them to delay proceedings for up to 20 days to allow them to prepare a better defense and find adequate translators.

The adjournment came after two Afghan interpreters struggled to translate comments from the judge, prosecution and witnesses, and Idema protested that he and his associates would not be able to get a fair trial.

"It is impossible for us to know what's happening," he said.

US and Afghan authorities allege that Idema's freelance counter-terror cell illegally jailed and tortured eight Afghan citizens without government authority.

The three US men and four Afghans face jail sentences of between 16 and 20 years if found guilty.

Idema said that he had been running a counter-terrorism operation under deep cover for some months and had handed militants he had detained to US-led coalition forces for further questioning on several occasions.

The group had emails, faxes and recordings to prove their links with senior US Defence Department officials, he added.

"We were in contact directly by fax, and email and phone with Donald Rumsfeld's office, with the Deputy Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, and with Kevin Anderson, a four-star rank officer level at the Pentagon."

Idema said that Anderson had offered his group a defence department contract but he had declined.

"We did not want to go under contract because that would meant that we couldn't work with the access to Northern Alliance people we were working with," he said.

He claimed to have handed the Taliban intelligence chief of the eastern Afghanistan city of Jalalabad to the FBI (news - web sites) for questioning and to have foiled bomb plots and assassination attempts on senior Afghan government officials.

Although the trial was formally adjourned, three witnesses who had been held in Idema's private torture chamber gave statements to the court.

Ghulam Sakhi said he was seized while in a taxi en route to Kabul from northern Laghman province. The vehicle was searched and he was bound, hooded and taken to a private jail by Idema and his Afghan associates.

While in captivity Sakhi was scalded with boiling water, had his head repeatedly forced under water and was kicked so badly on his chest he was left with breathing problems, he told the court.

Kabul shopkeeper Sakhi said he gave his captors the name of fellow detainee Mohammed Arif Malikyar, an Afghan Education Ministry official, in an attempt to stop repeated beatings after he failed to recognise any of the pictures of terror suspects Idema's group had showed him.

US news reports said Idema was a bounty hunter who had spent time in jail for fraud, formerly fought with Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan and may have been hunting senior Al-Qaeda leaders in the hope of claiming the substantial rewards on offer.

US forces here are already under fire from rights groups for their mistreatment of detainees in Afghanistan, one of whom died while in custody.

[walker 0]

Hi all

With the US under increased threat from Al Qaida since the fantasy Iraq war try your hand at detecting bagage threats on US planes.

Baggage Screener Test The link to launch the program is on the right hand pannel half way down the page.

Maybe you can do better than the guards who let the 9/11 hijackers on the flights despite the metal detectors going off.

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

Hi all

With the US under increased threat from Al Qaida since the fantasy Iraq war try your hand at detecting bagage threats on US planes.

Baggage Screener Test The linkl to launch the program is on the right hand pannel half way down the page.

Maybe you can do better than the guards who let the 9/11 hijackers on the lights despite the metal detctors going off.

Kind Regards Walker

Bags screened: 10

Bags with threats: 3

Threats correctly identified: 66%

False alarms: 2

Grade: Try to scan the bags more quickly.

Not bad for 2 minutes of on-the-job training.

[walker 0]

***Shocking News!***

Hi All

I just came across some shocking news.

Quote[/b] ]The book FORBIDDEN TRUTH:  U.S.-TALIBAN SECRET OIL DIPLOMACY AND THE FAILED HUNT FOR BIN LADENwas an international bestseller. Written by French Intelligence experts Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquié, the book asserts that the Bush administration threatened the Taliban with the now- infamous words: "Either you accept our carpet of gold or we'll carpet you with bombs."  The threat was made about a month before the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0716-02.htm

The clear implcation is that these words from TBA triggered the 9/11 responce.

TBA was at the time negotiating with the Taliban to put a pipeline through Afghanistan from the super rich Oil Fields of the Caspian sea to the Ran of Kush in Pakistan as part of a deal between TBA oil interests the Saudis and Pakistan

Shocked Walker

[Milkman 1]

Do you believe every thing you read Walker? Considering this book is written by "French intelligence experts?"

[ran 0]

Do you believe every thing you read Walker? Considering this book is written by "French intelligence experts?"

Brisard is a reputed advocate specialised in terrorism matters, he belongs to Chirac's circle of intimates. He's been choosen by the advocates of 200 families of 9/11 victims to investigate and enquire on the financement and financial activities of Al-Qaida.

Guillaume Dasquié is the creator of a magazine and a pâper about the Intelligence world and has a certain experience in this domain, he is an author, consultant and advisor affiliated to the press.

Their status regarding their relations with the french intelligence agencies is unknown.

Considering the proximity of Brisard with Chirac, his involvement in 9/11 financial investigations and the time spent by Dasquié within the Intelligence world can lead us to have doubts about their exact status and what they actualy know.

[walker 0]

Do you believe every thing you read Walker? Considering this book is written by "French intelligence experts?"

Hi Sgt. Milkman

Err TBA:

US Planes Hijacked (Bad)

US Citizens Killed (Bad)

WMD in Iraq (Wrong)

Iraq Link to Al Qaida (Wrong)

Threat from Iraq (Wrong)

Err French intelligence:

No French Planes Hijacked (Good)

No French Citizens Killed (Good)

No WMD in Iraq (Correct)

No Iraq Link to Al Qaida (Correct)

No Threat from Iraq (Correct)

I make that French Intelligence 5 : TBA Nill

Their repective records speak for them selves.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0716-02.htm

The clear implcation is that these words from TBA triggered the 9/11 responce.

TBA was at the time negotiating with the Taliban to put a pipeline through Afghanistan from the super rich Oil Fields of the Caspian sea to the Ran of Kush in Pakistan as part of a deal between TBA oil interests the Saudis and Pakistan

Shocked Walker

taking from your link:

Quote[/b] ]

That gap allowed Fox News analyst John Ellis to project his first cousin, G. W. Bush, to be the winner.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Quote[/b] ]

In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.

Quote[/b] ]

Over four hours later, at 2:16 a.m., Fox projected Bush as the Florida winner, as did all the other networks by 2:20 a.m.

At 3:59 a.m., CBS took the lead in retracting the Florida call for Bush. All the other networks, including Fox, followed the CBS lead within eight minutes. That the networks arrived at similar conclusions within a short period of time is not surprising, since they were all using the same data from the Voter News Service. (Mason, et al. "CBS News Coverage.") As the CBS timeline details, throughout the evening all networks called states used VNS data to call states, even though VNS had not called the state; sometimes the network calls were made hours ahead of the VNS call.

I should email guy who wrote that article to prove that F 9/11 is not the truth....

Quote[/b] ]TBA was at the time negotiating with the Taliban to put a pipeline through Afghanistan from the super rich Oil Fields of the Caspian sea to the Ran of Kush in Pakistan as part of a deal between TBA oil interests the Saudis and Pakistan

hmmm.....

Quote[/b] ]

On December 9, 2003, the new Afghanistan government did sign a protocol with Turkmenistan and Pakistan to facilitate a pipeline. Indeed, any Afghani government (Taliban or otherwise) would rationally seek the revenue that could be gained from a pipeline. But the new pipeline (which has not yet been built) has nothing to do with Unocal. Nor does the new proposed pipeline even resemble Unocal's failed proposal; the new pipeline would the bring oil and gas from the Caspian Sea basin, whereas Unocal's proposal involved deposits five hundred miles away, in eastern Turkmenistan.

Fahrenheit showed images of pipeline construction, but images have nothing to do with the Caspian Sea pipeline, for which construction has never begun. Nor do they have anything to do with the Unocal pipeline, which never existed except on paper.

According to Fahrenheit, Afghanistan's new President, Hamid Karzai, was a Unocal consultant. This is false. Sumana Chatterjee and David Goldstein, "A lowdown on the facts behind the allegations in 'Fahrenheit 9/11'," Knight-Ridder newspapers, July 2, 2004. The origin of the claim appears to be a December 6, 2001 story in the leftist French newspaper Le Monde. The story does not cite any source for its claim. (The story is available on-line from Le Monde's website; registration and payment are required.) Unocal has denied that Karzai was ever a consultant.

Would not they (TBA) forced Karzai to follow the "plan" they (TBA) had with Taliban...