War against terror

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ] but to say OKC was a major attack, on par with 9/11, is ludicrious. It had no real long-lasting effects, and though tragic, changed nothing really.

It was the worst terror attack before 9/11 on American soil....

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

...... And?

[ozanzac 0]

It had no real long-lasting effects, and though tragic, changed nothing really.

That I can agree with, as unfortunate as it is, that it changed nothing really.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]...... And?

It was performed by happy american citizens.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]...... And?

It was THE major attack that happened before 9/11.....

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

It wasn't a major attack. It wasn't by international terrorists.

This was pointed out already; can you read?

[SpongeBob 0]

It was performed by happy american citizens.

More like a few pissed off at Clinton and how he torched a bunch of Jesus freaks in Waco.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]It wasn't a major attack.  It wasn't by international terrorists.

This was pointed out already; can you read?

Who gives a crap if it was committed by international terrorists. Before 9/11, if you asked somebody what was THE major attack in America, they would probably say OK.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]It wasn't a major attack.  It wasn't by international terrorists.

This was pointed out already; can you read?

So, OK city was just another act of violence that happened to destroy a federal building to "revenge" waco and etc...

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]It wasn't a major attack. It wasn't by international terrorists.

This was pointed out already; can you read?

Who gives a crap if it was committed by international terrorists. Before 9/11, if you asked somebody what was THE major attack in America, they would probably say OK.

And exactly just how many terrorist attacks has the US suffered?

Just because it was the biggest terrorist attack to hit the US, does NOT make it a major terrorist attack. It was completely small beans .

[Balschoiw 0]

No spongebob, as far as I know the people at Waco lighted their own house, not the FBI:

Quote[/b] ]The FBI reversed in September a six-year-old position that it never used munitions capable of sparking the blaze that ended a standoff with the Branch Davidian sect near Waco, Tex., and left 76 people dead.

The acknowledgment that FBI agents fired "a very limited number" of potentially incendiary tear gas cartridges on the final day of the 51-day siege contradicts congressional testimony from high-ranking Justice Department officials, such as Attorney General Janet Reno, who said that the tear gas used against the Davidians "could not have caused a fire."

Reno and FBI Director Louis J. Freeh have ordered "a full review of the facts and circumstances" surrounding the use of military gas canisters on that day, and the Attorney General has appointed former Republican senator John Danforth of Missouri to head an independent inquiry into the matter.

The Waco Investigation

Final report from John C. Danforth

Quote[/b] ]This Report unequivocally reaffirms the conclusions contained in the Special Counsel's Interim Report of July 21, 2000.

Specifically:

Government agents did not start the fire at Waco;

Government agents did not shoot at the Branch Davidians on April 19, 1993;

Government agents did not improperly use the United States military;

Government agents did not engage in a massive conspiracy and cover-up. There is no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of Attorney General Reno, the present and former Director of the FBI, other high officials of the United States, or the individual members of the FBI Hostage Rescue Team who fired three pyrotechnic tear gas rounds on April 19, 1993.

Responsibility for the tragedy at Waco rests with certain of the Branch Davidians and their leader, David Koresh, who shot and killed four ATF agents, wounded twenty others, shot at FBI agents trying to insert tear gas into the complex, burned down the complex, and shot at least twenty of their own people, including five children.

These conclusions are based on a review of some 2.3 million pages of documents, interviews of over 1000 witnesses, and examination of thousands of pounds of physical evidence. They are supported by the findings of numerous experts retained by the Office of Special Counsel to assist in its investigation. The expert reports are attached as appendices to the Special Counsel's Final Report.

The Final Report contains new conclusions as to whether government employees covered up evidence of the Hostage Rescue Team's firing of three pyrotechnic tear gas rounds four hours before the outbreak of the fire. After completing its investigation, the Office of Special Counsel has again ruled out the existence of a widespread conspiracy to cover up the use of the pyrotechnic tear gas rounds. In many cases, government agents did not disclose this information because they legitimately did not know that any pyrotechnic tear gas rounds were used. In some cases, the failure to disclose the information was due to negligence rather than "bad acts."

Significantly, however, the Office of Special Counsel concluded that certain members of the Department of Justice's trial team that prosecuted the Branch Davidians knew about the pyrotechnic tear gas rounds in 1993 and wrongly chose not to disclose this information to defense attorneys for the Davidians, to Congress, and to others within the Department of Justice.

Danforth's Final Report is sharply critical of several of these individuals for obstructing his investigation by misleading investigators and attempting to cast blame on others in order to conceal their own role in this matter. The Final Report is also critical of the two FBI agents who were in charge of the evidence collection at the Branch Davidian complex.

Closely related to these conclusions, a federal grand jury sitting in St. Louis today returned an indictment against former Assistant United States Attorney William Johnston, one member of the trial team that prosecuted the Davidians. The five-count indictment charges that Johnston obstructed Danforth's investigation and made false statements to Danforth's investigators.

The charges set forth in an indictment are merely accusations and each defendant is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty.

Because of the pending indictment, the Office of Special Counsel has redacted some portions of its Report as required by:

The Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure;

The Department of Justice's guidelines regarding the treatment of individuals under indictment; and

The need to protect law enforcement sensitive information.

At such time as these redactions are no longer necessary, the Department of Justice will make available an unredacted version of the Report.

The started the fire themselves, so the motivation of the OK bomber was unfounded and wrong

[billybob2002 0]

One down....

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....rest_14

Quote[/b] ]

Pakistan Arrests Embassy Bombings Suspect

36 minutes ago

By PAUL HAVEN, Associated Press Writer

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan has arrested a Tanzanian al-Qaida suspect wanted by the United States in the 1998 bombings at U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the interior minister said Friday. He said the suspect was cooperating and had given authorities "very valuable" information.

Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani — who is on the FBI (news - web sites)'s list of 22 most wanted terrorists, with a reward of up to $25 million on his head — was arrested Sunday in the eastern city of Gujrat along with at least 15 other people, Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayyat told The Associated Press.

He said Ghailani has given authorities some useful information. Hayyat would not speculate on whether the suspect was planning any attacks in the United States or Pakistan.

"It would be premature to say anything about this, but obviously we have certain information, some very valuable and useful leads have been acquired," he said.

A U.S. official confirmed the capture of Ghailani and said it is a significant development because he is an al-Qaida operative and facilitator who has been indicted for his role in the east Africa bombings.

Ghailani may be able to shed further light on the 1998 embassy bombings or have information about terror cells or al-Qaida operatives, particularly in east Africa, the official said on condition of anonymity.

Mohammed Sadiq Odeh, who was convicted in the African embassy bombings, told the FBI that he joined the rest of the East Africa al-Qaida cell in Nairobi on Aug. 6, 1998 and flew to Karachi on a Kenyan Airways flight before the bombs even exploded, according to a court transcript. That was the last known sighting of Ghailani until his arrest six years later.

Hayyat said Ghailani had apparently been living in Pakistan for some time, but it was not clear how long, or how he entered the country. Gujrat is an industrial city surrounded by rice and sugar cane fields, not known as a haven for militancy or extremism.

"This is a big success," Hayyat told Pakistan's Geo television network. "As a result of our investigation, it became clear that he was a major figure wanted for the bombings," Hayyat said.

Hayyat said Ghailani was being held at an undisclosed location in Pakistan, but indicated he might be turned over to U.S. authorities after investigations are completed. An intelligence official told The Associated Press he was being held at a facility in the eastern city of Lahore.

Ghailani, thought to be in his early 30s, was indicted on Dec. 16, 1998 in the Southern District of New York for his alleged role in the embassy bombings, which killed more than 200 people, including 12 Americans.

He is suspected of buying the truck used as the vehicle bomb in the attack on the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, in which 12 people were killed.

He could face the death penalty if convicted of the charges, which include murder of U.S. nationals outside the United States, conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals outside the United States, and attack on a federal facility resulting in death.

Ghailani, who also goes by the names "Foopie," "Fupi" and "Ahmed the Tanzanian," was also one of seven wanted al-Qaida suspects that the FBI and Justice Department (news - web sites) asked for help in finding in May to help avert a possible terror attack over the summer in the United States.

Pakistan had said earlier that some of the 16 suspects arrested Sunday were from Africa, but had not said whether they were linked to al-Qaida.

Brig. Javed Iqbal Cheema, who is in charge of coordinating Pakistan's counterterrorism effort, told AP that Ghailani's wife, an Uzbek woman, was also arrested, along with several of his children.

It was not clear if the suspects were planning any attacks in Pakistan or simply using the country to hide out.

"They had arrived in Gujrat recently but we don't know where they came from or how they got into the country," Cheema said.

The suspects were captured by police and intelligence agents during a raid on a house in the industrial city of Gujrat early Sunday after a 12-hour long shootout.

The authorities also recovered two AK-47 rifles, plastic chemicals, two computers, computer diskettes, and a "large amount" of foreign currency at the home, where the suspects had moved last month.

Cheema said the raid in Gujrat was carried out on information from a suspected Pakistani militant who was arrested in a separate operation in eastern Punjab province.

Hayyat announced the arrest after midnight in Pakistan in an interview with Geo television, an unusually late hour considering the arrests were made Sunday and authorities had known but not revealed the man's identity for some days.

Pakistani leaders have rejected allegations they time the announcements of major terror arrests for maximum impact, though several other arrests have come on the eve of important Pakistan-U.S. summits. Al-Qaida suspect Ramzi Binalshibh was nabbed in Karachi on Sept. 11, 2002, the one year anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

Pakistan, which became a key ally of the United States in its war on terror after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in America, has so far arrested more than 500 al-Qaida suspects from different parts of the country.

They included al-Qaida No. 3 leader, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was arrested in March 2003 during a raid in Rawalpindi, a city near Islamabad. Almost all the foreign suspects, including Mohammed, were later handed over to the U.S. officials.

Ramzi Binalshibh and Abu Zubaydah, two other al-Qaida leaders, were also arrested in Pakistan.

Al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) and his right hand man, Ayman al-Zawahri, are believed to be hiding in the rugged tribal frontier between Pakistan and Afghanistan (news - web sites), but there has been no hard evidence on their whereabouts.

[Balschoiw 0]

I would tell you everything for 25 Million Dollars.

It surprises me that it takes so long until someone blows the whistle. Imagine 25 Million dollars for people who earn 80 - 200 Euro per month !

Al Quaida is a syndrom and a movement. That´s why people like this can hide that long. Even with 25 Million Dollars on their heads.

Think about that.

[bn880 5]

Yea geee, where are em terr'ists again? In Iraq? No. In Pakistan? Yes. In Saudi Arabia? Yes. Who did you attack? Iraq. Who is your "ally"? Pakistan then S.A..

WTF...

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ] The Marine reservist who told Michael Moore in Fahrenheit 9/11 that he would not fight again in Iraq and accompanied Moore as the filmmaker attempted to persuade members of Congress to have their kids join up to fight, is being investigated by the Marine Corps, USA Today reported today (Thursday). According to the newspaper, the Corps is conducting a preliminary inquiry into Lance Cpl. Abdul Henderson's appearance in the film. A spokesman for the Marines, Patrick Kerr, commented: "He made it very clear that he would not follow orders. ... We're trying to determine what, if anything, he said or did was wrong." Asked what would befall Henderson if he failed to report for a second tour of duty in Iraq, Kerr replied, "Technically, he'd be a deserter." Henderson told the newspaper that so far, he has heard nothing from his superiors. "I expect trouble, but who knows?" he said. "They never told us not to give our opinions of how we felt." Meanwhile, Fahrenheit continued to perform strongly during mid-week. It has now earned more than $106 million at the domestic box office.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Quote[/b] ]BREAKING NEWS

Explosion reported in Prague's central shopping district, several people are said to be injured. Details soon.

http://edition.cnn.com/

Walker

[mr burns 132]

just seen it on tv,

car explosion at "wenzelsplatz", 20 injured but not life threatening.

allegedly a grenade was thrown under the car.

..

source: news on n-tv

[Balschoiw 0]

Oh oh !  

Hope that nothing big is behind this.

Edit: Looks like it has been an attack among criminals or organized crime.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The latest terror alert from Al Qaida is based on a recon by Al Qaida before 9/11 the intel is three years old.

Quote[/b] ]Pre-9/11 Acts Led To Alerts

Officials Not Sure Al Qaeda Continued To Spy on Buildings

Most of the al Qaeda surveillance of five financial institutions that led to a new terrorism alert Sunday was conducted before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and authorities are not sure whether the casing of the buildings has continued, numerous intelligence and law enforcement officials said yesterday.

More than half a dozen government officials interviewed yesterday, who declined to be identified because classified information is involved, said that most, if not all, of the information about the buildings seized by authorities in a raid in Pakistan last week was about three years old, and possibly older.

"There is nothing right now that we're hearing that is new," said one senior law enforcement official who was briefed on the alert. "Why did we go to this level? . . . I still don't know that."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35466-2004Aug2.html

Any one get the feeling Al Qaida misdirected US and Pakistan Intelligence again?

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

Any one get the feeling Al Qaida misdirected US and Pakistan Intelligence again?

I get the feeling we all don't have the details needed to draw such a conclusion.

It took at least 5 years from planning to action for the attack on the WTC and the Pentagon. Who's to say that they did not pick up some info now that this "old" plan was about to be carried out.

[walker 0]

Hi Avon

My worries are that either the US intelligence has a proven record of getting it wrong, or TBA has a proven record of misundertanding what the intelligence service tells it.

The intelligence or TBA intelligence interpretation failures have been a hallmark of the past four years whether it is the screw ups that on 9/11 let terrorists through on George Bush Jnr's watch or the fantasy Iraq threat or the Pro Talliban dealings of TBA to get the pipe line through Afghanistan Pre 9/11.

The fact that Tom Ridge and TBA have now become synonymous with Wolf Crying means that many do not know if this latest threat is real or not.

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

My worries are that either the US intelligence has a proven record of getting it wrong, or TBA has a proven record of misundertanding what the intelligence service tells it.

The intelligence or TBA intelligence interpretation failures have been a hallmark of the past four years whether it is the screw ups that on 9/11 let terrorists through on George Bush Jnr's watch or the fantasy Iraq threat or the Pro Talliban dealings of TBA to get the pipe line through Afghanistan Pre 9/11.

The fact that Tom Ridge and TBA have now become synonymous with Wolf Crying means that many do not know if this latest threat is real or not.

While you have these problems, others don't.

[Pathy 0]

Given that they claim the plans were updated in January this year, i would say TBA had every right to assume the worst.

I am suprised however, that they went public with this information, potentially scaring the terrorists off, or at least warning them they were on to them, instead of taking the risk of letting them run and then trying to catch the whole lot.....

[theavonlady 2]

I am suprised however, that they went public with this information, potentially scaring the terrorists off, or at least warning them they were on to them, instead of taking the risk of letting them run and then trying to catch the whole lot.....

No. Obviously their information was not concrete enough to be able to do this in stealth.

They did the right thing, IMO.

[Pathy 0]

IMO unless they knew nothing at all about the attackers, it was a panic decision, and a wrong one.

But then none of us know what information was available to them, so its pointless to speculate. All i can say is a much more skilled agency would have used what they had to unravel the whole plot, rather than going public, unless of course, it was the only choice they had (no other leads).