War against terror

[theavonlady 2]

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/26/38/12/explosion.jpg

I've only seen one other pic from the bombing and it's against forum rules to post it.

At least 10 dead and over 100 wounded.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Looking into the future of Iraq!

[theavonlady 2]

Looking into the future of Iraq!

Why?

That's the present.

[quicksand 0]

Strange that the asassination coincided with Putin proclaiming the end of millitary operations in Chechenia.How can you proclaim victory without defeating the enemy?From what I understand the situation is just as bad if not worst as in Iraq with daily amubshes and casualties for the russians,and there is a total media blackout of such events.

Kadyrovs death isn`t a big surprise as there were other asassination atempts at his life,after winning the hate of the rebels by switching sides and becoming pro-Moscow.

The question is what will follow now in the war thorn country..

[johnnylump 0]

Former NFL Player Killed in Afghanistan

8 minutes ago

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan (news - web sites) after walking away from an NFL career to join the Army Rangers, U.S. officials said Friday.

The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said a formal announcement was expected later in the day. Spokesmen at the Pentagon (news - web sites) and U.S. Army declined comment.

There were no immediate details how Tillman died. He was 27.

...

Little behind the times quoting this ... but I must say, the writer of this article has a great byline.

[Ironsight 1]

It's already mentioned a couple of pages back  

[theavonlady 2]

I understood that Norway was worse.

Quote[/b] ]Sweden Fights Image of 'Safe Haven' for Terror

Wed May 12, 9:10 AM ET

By Stephen Brown

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Victims of dictatorships from Chile to Iraq (news - web sites), people fleeing violence in the Balkans or the Horn of Africa, and rebels and separatists from Indonesia or Latin America have for decades found refuge in neutral Sweden.

But as even the most law-abiding corners of the globe get dragged into the "war on terror" pitching the United States and its allies against supporters of al Qaeda and Iraqi resistance, Sweden is taking a closer look at some of its foreign guests.

The new head of the SAPO security police, Klas Bergenstrand, pulled no punches when he told national radio: "In Sweden too there are people participating in networks whose ultimate goal is to carry out terrorist attacks."

SAPO's head of counter-terrorism, Margarethe Linderoth, told Reuters in an interview that "all terrorist organizations are more or less represented in Sweden with one or more persons."

But while acknowledging that Sweden's asylum policy and membership of the European Union (news - web sites)'s border-free Schengen zone made it hard to check the flow of people, she said new laws passed in 2003 should help ensure Sweden is "not a safe haven."

Recent arrests of suspected Islamic militants in Stockholm and Malmo have brought home the idea that even Sweden, which has not been to war for 200 years and does its best to project an image of compassionate neutrality, is not immune.

In a poll by the tabloid Aftonbladet, over 90 percent of 20,000 respondents said "terrorists" were hiding in Sweden.

It is one of Europe's fastest-growing immigrant destinations and among the fifth of the population born abroad or to foreign parents, many are from troubled zones including 70,000 Iraqis and 60,000 Iranians. That makes it easy to find cover, say SAPO.

SLEEPING CELLS

Gunnar Jervas, terror expert at the Swedish Defense Research Agency, told Reuters that the ethnic mix, generous asylum laws and welfare and "the fact that the police are not on your tail" meant that "in principle Sweden should be a very good country for terror planning purposes. It is entirely reasonable to believe that there could be 'sleeping cells' here that are planning terror actions abroad."

Anders Hellner at the Foreign Policy Institute wrote in a column that Sweden hosted "many groups and cells who support al Qaeda and other similar terror organizations -- many more than we know about. Some are very active and willing to take up terrorist methods to reach their political goal."

Sweden has been visited by al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden: a snapshot shows him as a teen-ager with 22 of his siblings next to a pink Cadillac during a family holiday in Sweden in 1971.

Back then in the Cold War, NATO (news - web sites) outsider Sweden was becoming a favored guerrilla hide-out and in 1988 police discovered that radical Palestinian group Abu Nidal had set up a cell here with an arms cache in a forest near Arlanda international airport.

But the vulnerability of Sweden's "open society," where bodyguards were not needed, was dramatized in 1986 with the murder of Prime Minister Olof Palme and last year when Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was killed by a mentally unstable man.

When police arrested four suspected Muslim extremists in April, Sweden's largest such swoop since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, and a Malmo post-mark showed up on a threat against Thailand for sending soldiers to Iraq, Prime Minister Goran Persson said the "war on terror" had come to Sweden despite its opposition to the U.S.-led war on Iraq.

"The fight against terrorism must also take place in Sweden, when it is called for we must not hesitate," Persson said.

DANGEROUS ELEMENTS?

"Sweden is waking up, at last, to the fact that they have dangerous elements here," observed a Middle Eastern diplomat.

With 400,000 Muslims living in Sweden and the ruling Social Democrats unswerving in their devotion to equality, authorities are careful to avoid offending any ethnic or religious group.

"I don't think there is a single Muslim in Sweden who deserves to be called terrorist and nobody with any links to terrorism," said Mahmoud Aldebe, a Muslim community leader.

Diplomats from countries involved in long guerrilla wars say Sweden seems keen not to be considered a "safe haven" for rebel groups or supporters. When Palestinian militant group Hamas's Web site was found in March to be hosted on a server in Sweden, SAPO referred it to prosecutors and the site was taken down.

Colombia's FARC guerrillas ran their own "news agency," ANNCOL, out of Sweden, until police took unspecified action and it relocated to Denmark. Colombia's vice president, Francisco Santos, told Reuters in Stockholm in March that "there were abuses" but Sweden's asylum policy had changed.

One group eager to see if that is true is the Free Aceh Movement (GAM), seeking independence from Indonesia. Its exiled leaders, based in a Stockholm suburb for 20 years, recently took on lawyers "as a precaution" after Swedish prosecutors went to Indonesia in March to investigate Jakarta's charges that they were terrorists directing the armed struggle from Sweden.

"We are ready for any eventuality. With our people being killed at home we fear nothing, but we believe there is law and justice in Sweden," said GAM spokesman Bakhtiar Abdullah.

"We believe that when they find out these people break the law by performing terrorist acts, the Swedish government should know what to do with them," countered an Indonesian diplomat.

[Akira 0]

I'll stick this in 'War on Terror' now since the Iraq thread has moved on:

Father Blames Bush, Rumsfield

Quote[/b] ]PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - The father of Nick Berg, the American beheaded in Iraq (news - web sites), directly blamed President Bush (news - web sites) and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Thursday for his son's death.

"My son died for the sins of George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld. This administration did this," Berg said in an interview with radio station KYW-AM.

In the interview from outside his home in West Chester, Pennsylvania, a seething Michael Berg also said his 26-year-old son, a civilian contractor, probably would have felt positive, even about his executioners, until the last minute.

"I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life," Berg said. "They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

Two days after the publication of a video showing the execution of his son by five masked men, Berg attacked the Bush administration for its invasion of Iraq and its sponsorship of the Patriot Act, which gives sweeping powers of surveillance to the federal government.

Berg described the Patriot Act as a "coup d'etat." He added: "It's not the same America I grew up in."

The criticism came amid finger-pointing between Berg's family, U.S. military officials and Iraqi police over the young businessman's imprisonment before his execution.

Michael Berg rejected U.S. government claims that his son had never been held by American authorities in Iraq. The Iraqi police chief in the city of Mosul has also contradicted statements by the U.S.-led coalition concerning the younger Berg's detention.

"I have a written statement from the State Department in Baghdad ... saying that my son was being held by the military," Berg said. "I can also assure you that the FBI came to my house on March 31 and told me that the FBI had him in Mosul in an Iraqi prison."

Dan Senor, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority, said this week that Nick Berg was arrested in Mosul by Iraqi police on March 24 and released on April 6.

Senor said the FBI visited Berg three times during his detention by Iraqi police and determined that he was not involved in criminal or terrorist activities.

Brig.-Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, said American military police had seen Berg during his detention to make sure he was being fed and treated properly.

Berg returned to Baghdad from Mosul in April and went missing on April 9, during a chaotic period when dozens of foreigners were snatched by guerrillas west of the capital.

His body was discovered by a road near Baghdad on Saturday. The video of his decapitation was posted on the Internet on Tuesday.

Berg had been in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1 and returned to Iraq in March. He did not find work and planned to return home at the end of March, according to his parents.

Berg's communications to his parents stopped on March 24 and he told them later he was jailed by Iraqi officials after being picked up at a checkpoint in Mosul.

On April 5, the Bergs filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government, naming Rumsfeld and alleging their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq. The next day, he was released. (additional reporting by Maher al-Thanoon)

I especially like how the Administration stated that they never held Berg, and advised him to leave. Now the father has written proof that Berg was being held. Also he was held when he was trying to leave.

[waffendennis 0]

Yes It's verry sick what they did with him...

They just used a normal knife and at the half they stoped for few seconds/minuts and he still lived then and the continue...

They are sick evil Bitches and I hope they get Skull Fucked...

That's my opinion about those people who did this to this man.

(Btw: I know where the Full video is and un censored from all this but i dont think the link is supported here by the forum mods )

[theavonlady 2]

I especially like how the Administration stated that they never held Berg, and advised him to leave.

The Iraqis had him arrested as a suspected spy. And here's why they suspected him:

Quote[/b] ]Slain man 'held because of Jewish name'

By Toby Harnden

Baghdad

Marcus Warren

West Chester, Pennsylvania

May 14, 2004

Nicholas Berg, the American who was filmed being beheaded, had been arrested by Iraqi police earlier and held on suspicion of being a spy because he had a Jewish name and an Israeli stamp in his passport, it has emerged.

At the al-Fanar Tower Hotel in Baghdad, friends spoke fondly of a body-building adventurer who shrugged off danger, was passionate about his family and had been capitalising on the technology boom in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein.

Hugo Infante, 31, a Chilean photographer said he re-met Mr Berg around April 6 when the American returned to Baghdad, two weeks after he said he was going to Mosul for two days on business. "He said: 'They arrested me because I had a Jewish last name and an Israeli stamp in my passport.' Then the Iraqi police put him with the US military because they thought he was a spy.

"Nick told me all this. He wasn't mad. It was just an adventure for him. He said: 'This shit happens. It was bad luck.' "

In the Arab world, any indication that someone is a Jew or has links with Israel can be potentially fatal, as Daniel Pearl, the Wall Street Journal reporter who was beheaded on video in Pakistan two years ago, found out to his cost.

Advertisement

Advertisement

Mr Berg, 26, an independent businessman, came to Iraq to repair communications towers and had no affiliation with the US Government, officials said. In a lawsuit filed in the US District Court in Philadelphia, Mr Berg's parents contend that his incarceration, which began with his arrest on March 24, prevented him from returning to the US on a flight that was to have arrived in New York on March 30.

As arrangements were made instead to fly Mr Berg's remains to Kuwait and then to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, important questions about his death remained unanswered, including why he was detained for nearly two weeks and how and when he was abducted and killed.

"He knew who he was and he was not unaware of the risks here," said Andrew Duke, 49, a Colorado businessman who drank beer with Mr Berg at the hotel the night before he was abducted, apparently on the way to Baghdad International Airport. Mr Duke said Mr Berg had given him a similar account of what happened in Mosul. "His attitude was it was all a bit of fun (being arrested). Inconvenient, but in the bigger picture, not a big deal," Mr Duke said.

"How did it happen? All you have to do is be at a checkpoint and not take it seriously."

Dan Senor, spokesman for the US-led coalition in Iraq, insisted on Wednesday that Mr Berg was arrested and held by Iraqi police and was never in American custody, although the FBI visited him three times and US military police checked that he was being treated properly.

"My understanding is that they suspected that he was involved/engaged in suspicious activities," Mr Senor said, referring to the Iraqi police.

The FBI released a statement indicating that coalition authorities had warned Mr Berg that the environment was dangerous but that he had refused offers to help get him out of Iraq safely.

Back in West Chester, Pennsylvania, the Berg family lashed out at US military officials for failing to do more to protect Mr Berg and disputed repeated US military statements that he was in the custody of Iraqi police.

Mr Berg's older brother, David, emerged from the family's home in suburban Philadelphia with a four-page email that he said was sent by Mr Berg just hours after he was freed from jail. He was freed on April 6, the day after the Berg family filed a lawsuit in the US that Nicholas was being held illegally by American forces. In the email, addressed to his parents, brother and sister, Mr Berg described the 13 days he spent in the Shirdta Iraqiyah station near Mosul, an Iraqi detention facility where he said the US military police supervised and trained Iraqi officers.

"The MPs were a little surprised to see an American in civilian clothing and I think out of formality and boredom they decided to do a background check, which involved CID," Mr Berg wrote, referring to the US Army's Criminal Investigation Division.

The next morning, Mr Berg described the questioning by the FBI agents as amicable but pointed. Among the questions he wrote that he was asked were: "Why was I in Iraq? Did I ever make a pipe bomb? Why was I in Iran?" He believed that their questions arose from some Farsi literature and a book about Iran that he carried.

Mr Berg wrote that after four days, he was transferred to a cell block that included prisoners charged with petty offences and suspected war criminals.

"Word had spread, due to the presence of certain items among my stuff, that I was Israeli," Mr Berg wrote, later noting that his passport contained an Israel stamp. "So I felt a bit like Arlo Guthrie walking into a jail full of mother-rapers and father-stabbers as an accused litterbug."

When he left the Baghdad hotel for the last time on April 10, he told Mr Infante he was heading for the airport but would return. He phoned his family on April 9. A month later, his body was discovered on a Baghdad roadside. On Tuesday, militants posted a grisly video showing his decapitation on a website linked to al-Qaeda.

I feel sorry for the Berg family and I don't want to judge them at a time when they are suffering from immense grief and anger. But the sad fact is that their son was arrested by Iraqis, that he chose to risk his own life just by going to Iraq at this time in an attempt to drum up business and that he feel into the hands of lowly vicious beasts.

[Placebo 28]

Iraq topics belong in the Iraq thread, that is an Iraq topic so it doesn't belong here.

[waffendennis 0]

Iraq topics belong in the Iraq thread, that is an Iraq topic so it doesn't belong here.

I know you mod's just use your mod status to say Im wrong but what the heck here it goes:

PlaceBo your WRONG: This had to do with Terrorists cause those people who killed the guy are terrorists so it can be belonge here Right?...

[bn880 5]

waffen, you have to lump pretty much all agression in Iraq to war, which belongs to the Iraq thread. The idea of terrorism during war is much harder to prove than fighting during war, so just stick to that. Or there is another side to this terrorism claim, just a warning.

[Placebo 28]

Right?...

Wrong.

[denoir 0]

For those that love to see the world in black-and-white, here's something to chew on.

AQ prevented Olympic terrorist attack

Quote[/b] ]

An Australian citizen on trial on terrorist charges also discussed a possible attack on the 2000 Sydney Olympics, a court heard on Wednesday.

Jack Roche is already accused of plotting to blow up Israeli diplomatic missions in Sydney and Canberra.

"We also discussed the possibility to do something in Sydney, during the Olympic Games there," Mr Roche allegedly wrote in notes read in court.

The 2000 plot was first revealed by intelligence officials 18 months ago. Prosecutors said that Mr Roche, writing in Indonesian, recorded meeting Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the South East Asian Islamic militant group Jemaah Islamiah, in March 2000.

They discussed the Olympic Games plot but it was later overruled by members of Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network when Mr Roche travelled to Afghanistan, according to the notes.

Instead, al-Qaeda operatives decided Israeli and Jewish interests should be targeted to draw attention to the plight of Palestinians, prosecutors said the notes showed.

On Tuesday, prosecutors said Hambali, who is now in US custody at an undisclosed location, paid Mr Roche US$80,000 to carry out the embassy bombing. Mr Roche's lawyer has insisted his client is innocent and rejects violence. He faces a maximum sentence of 45 years in prison if convicted.

Son's testimony

Mr Roche's son, Jens Holland, has quoted his father as saying that he was preparing to make the "greatest sacrifice" in the name of Allah.

"The disbelievers are now out of control, and believe their ways - ways based on inequality, arrogance etc - are right. I hate them for that," Mr Holland read in court from a letter Mr Roche allegedly wrote him during a trip to Afghanistan in 2000.  Mr Roche was arrested in November 2002 during raids by Australian police that targeted suspected sympathisers of the radical Islamic group, Jemaah Islamiah (JI).

The English-born suspect converted to Islam more than a decade ago and has been living in Perth in Western Australia for several years.

The Australian authorities believe he is a member of JI.

The trial, which is due to take a month, continues.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Actually im not quite sure what that proves about Al-Quaida. It might suggest a certain awareness that an olympic attack could create more international revulsion for less geo-political advantage, it might indicate that they did not want the planning of the 11th sept attack (if ongoing) disrupted by another high publicity attack against a slightly less satanic country* , or it might just show the prevalence of a hatred of Jewish people.

*From their perspective, naturally.

[denoir 0]

I think it's relevant to show that they actually have an agenda. It's way to common to just dismiss them as 'evildoers' who just are evil for the sake of being evil. 'They attacked us because they are jealous of our freedoms' - that kind of thing.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

It should be clear to anyone who knows anything about terrorism (or people) that they have an agenda,

But that doesnt exactly make them 'brotherhood of mankind' , peace and goodwill to all, puppy loving olympics fans does it? I mean to dredge up a rotten old example Hitler had an agenda.

Barely sentient morons tend to argue "They attacked us because they are jealous of our freedoms". Its usually not worth arguing with morons, but it could be said "they attacked us because they dislike (or hate) and regard as sinful and pervasive 'our' way of life and value systems (not being based on religious dogma)".

And is this not at least partially true (whether or not there are more realpolitik motivations also)?

[denoir 0]

It should be clear to anyone who knows anything about terrorism (or people) that they have an agenda

Unfortunately it's very unclear to many people. A while ago I posted a 'misconception' study in the Iraq thread that showed that a lot of people believe in the most trivial picture of AQ just being evil by nature. The problematics of this is because they fail to understand how people in the world can support the terorrists and dismiss them as well as just being 'evil'. This kind of trivialized preception is a big hindering block in the treating of the root cause of terrorism rather than just looking at the symptoms.

Quote[/b] ]But that doesnt exactly make them 'brotherhood of mankind' , peace and goodwill to all, puppy loving olympics fans does it?

The point is that they can be puppy loving olympics fans while at the same time be ruthless killers.

Quote[/b] ]Barely sentient morons tend to argue "They attacked us because they are jealous of our freedoms".

Those are Bush's words. And if you didn't notice he has quite a number of followers.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Barely sentient morons tend to argue "They attacked us because they are jealous of our freedoms".

Those are Bush's words. And if you didn't notice he has quite a number of followers.

Al Qaida sometimes agree with Bush's words:

Quote[/b] ]Al-Qaeda says Canada deserves bombing

Jihad spokesman says Canadians were mean to Khadrs

Saturday, May 15, 2004

ISLAMABAD - The Al-Qaeda terror network views Canada as a legitimate target because it is a "selfish" nation committing "terrorism" against Muslims around the world, an unofficial spokesman for jihadists waging holy war against the West said Friday.

Khalid Khawaja, a friend of Osama bin Laden's who calls the Saudi terrorist and his followers "the most wonderful people of the world," told the National Post that Canadians should not be surprised if suicide bombers want to strike their country.

"It is very simple," he said. "As Bush says, either you are a friend or you are an enemy. So if you are not my friend, you are our enemy. So it is very simple. When you are supporting the enemy [the United States] then you are a target."

He also said Canada was hated because of its military presence in Afghanistan and its treatment of the Khadr family, notably Abdul Karim, the teen who set off a public outcry when he returned to Toronto for medical treatment after he was wounded in a shootout in Pakistan that left his al-Qaeda father dead.

"Look at these Canadians. They have millions and millions of dollars to fight against Muslims, to send their troops, to send their weapons, and all of them put together, they have objections to giving treatment to this 14 year-old-boy who has been a victim of your terrorism."

Bin Laden first publicly encouraged attacks against Canada in a statement broadcast on Nov. 12, 2002. In March, 2004, an al-Qaeda manual posted on the Internet ranked Canadians as the fifth most important targets.

But al-Qaeda and its ideological theorists have provided little explanation as to why. Canada did not send troops to Iraq, its foreign policy is not particularly pro-Israel and Ottawa has not been overly aggressive in fighting terror.

A top Canadian terrorism expert said Mr. Khawaja's comments were typical of the way al-Qaeda followers view the world, as divided between two conflicting religious and cultural camps: Dar ul-Islam, the perfect Muslim world, and Dar ul-Harb, the immoral rest of the world.

"Canada, as a secular democratic society, is by definition assigned to Dar ul-Harb. From the perspective of al-Qaeda and associated Islamic militants, it is incumbent upon Muslims to wage a jihad, a holy war, against Dar ul-Harb in order to destroy its perceived evils and transform those societies into Dar ul-Islam," said Professor Martin Rudner.

"According to this doctrine, Canada is a religiously sanctioned target for terrorism, suicide bombing and political violence," said Prof. Rudner, Director of the Canadian Centre of Intelligence and Security Studies at Carleton University's Norman Paterson School of International Affairs.

A Canadian intelligence report written shortly after bin Laden first urged attacks against Canada said the country was singled out "in view of its support of the U.S." The more recent al-Qaeda manual explains only that Canada is a "Christian" country.

According to a translation of an article written by Abu Ayman al-Hilali, a senior al-Qaeda leader and ideologist, the United States, Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Germany, and Australia are "enemies" and attacks against their civilians are justified. Since Western governments are engaged in a war against Islam, he argued, the civilian voters who elect those governments cannot be considered non-combatants and are legitimate targets for terrorists.

In an interview in Islamabad yesterday, Mr. Khawaja, who fought with bin Laden in Afghanistan and openly admits he supports jihad activities, provided a rare explanation of why terrorists wish to bring violence to Canada.

Suicide bombers are simply fighting back against the Western assault on their faith and Canadians should just learn to "take it," he said.

"Today you have the power in your hand. The other day the suicide bomber also has power. So you use your cruise missiles and atom bombs and all that, so he uses his power. So why do you cry at that time? When you say we are fighting a war against you, so better take it then.

"They are also fighting a war against you. They are fighting their way, you are fighting your way. So let's be happy. But only thing is, your faces are pulled down, you are scared, sitting in America and Canada. You are scared of a man sitting in the cave."

"We are not scared of you."

He described life as a "cage" and a "prison" from which he hoped to escape. "We love it like we want to live in a toilet, and we just want to get out of it." And the best way to leave life is in jihad, he said. "So how can you fight with us?"

Mr. Khawaja would not say when he last spoke with bin Laden but his recent activities include helping the families of al-Qaeda members killed in a 1998 U.S. cruise missile strike on a terror training camp in Afghanistan, and helping the Khadr family of Ontario.

The return of Mrs. Khadr and her youngest son Abdul Karim to Canada, and the broadcast of comments in which the mother and her daughter praised suicide bombings, outraged many Canadians. Thousands signed a petition calling for the deportation of the family.

"You have paralyzed [Abdul Karim], your system has paralyzed him -- although of course he's been paralyzed by Pakistan Army, but it was under order of this coalition. To me I call them governments of terrorists, the coalition of terrorists.

"So you paralyzed this boy with no thought, you paralyzed his father with no thought, now the whole Canadian nation put together, they are bothered about taxpayers' money, that this boy should not be treated with this money.

"You have all the money to kill the people, you have all the billions of dollars to make the people slaves, you have billions of dollars to torture the people, you have billions of dollars to put up in the media to create false enemies and you have no money to give treatment to one of your victims. So what treatment do you deserve?

"Your civilization is selfish and self-centred. Just you want to live and enjoy yourselves and that is all, you don't give."

He said terrorist attacks would end only when the West stopped trying to dominate the Muslim world.

"We don't believe in killing innocent people but we would certainly like to send you into the Stone Age the same way you have sent us into the Stone Age."

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Denoir-

Quote[/b] ]Those are Bush's words

I appreciate you reinforcing my point but Bush as the president is often a populist mouthpiece. There are those in TBA perfectly aware of more complex and historical reasons for the AQ attacks than some conception of a twisted pining for the american way of life converted into hatred. I imagine its just a popular thing to say to Middle America at such times. Probably Gore would made some vaguely similar comment even if phrased differently.

Quote[/b] ]The point is that they can be puppy loving olympics fans while at the same time be ruthless killers

Unlikely. Unless female athletes start wearing the Hejab (or at least dress conservatively), Israel is banned and with a preference for men to let their beards grow and the games to be stopped five times a day for prayer. Supporting the Olympics doesnt really seem to fit with Al Quaidas agenda does it? Its like Bush becoming a fan of the Cuban welfare state.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

JohnWayne has a very good point- I run into new people everyday who didn't have a clue what Muslim/American relations consisted of in 2000, much less 40 years ago. Suffice it to say that Americans are neither as politically plugged in, so to speak, as our counterparts, and we certainly don't have nearly as long memories.

[Akira 0]

And so the US continues its road to insanity:

Source

Quote[/b] ]24-hour camera surveillance in city is part of bigger plan

Financed by homeland security grants, new network aimed at fighting terrorists as much as drug dealers

By Doug Donovan

Sun Staff

Originally published June 10, 2004

From the Inner Harbor to the Bay Bridge, local and state homeland security authorities are beginning to build a regional network of 24-hour surveillance cameras that will first go live this summer in Baltimore.

The closed-circuit video surveillance system of public spaces will begin in the Inner Harbor by summer's end, and a $2 million federal grant accepted by the city yesterday will expand the cameras into downtown's west side by early November.

"We're trying to build a regional network of cameras," said Dennis R. Schrader, director of homeland security for Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr.

What of privacy concerns raised by groups opposed to cameras constantly monitored by retired police officers or college students?

"We're at war," Schrader said.

The network is part of a comprehensive strategy in the Baltimore area to spend $25 million in homeland security grants this year and next to improve regional cooperation on terrorism concerns. The idea stemmed from a regional group of leaders that is jointly acquiring decontamination equipment and backups for 911 and power systems.

The network of cameras will be placed in downtown's west side because it has light rail and Amtrak lines, federal and state government buildings, and many cultural institutions.

The city wants companies capable of building the system to submit bids by the end of this month. "The purpose of the ... system is to provide for the homeland defense ... while also reducing crime and public disorder," reads the request for proposals. "Cameras will only observe and record that which a police officer or private citizen could legally see."

At a surveillance center in the Atrium Building on Howard Street, 13 to 15 retired police officers or criminal justice college students will monitor images, said Elliot Schlanger, Baltimore's chief information officer.

The system will be owned by the city and managed by Schlanger's office. The network would be able to connect with the state's existing system of closed-circuit cameras that monitor highways, he said.

Eventually, Anne Arundel, Baltimore, Carroll, Harford and Howard counties would plug their systems into the city's hub.

The city would also work to link its network with the closed-circuit television systems in use by the University of Maryland, the Downtown Partnership, Oriole Park at Camden Yards and other private institutions on downtown's west side.

The network could also hook up to closed-circuit cameras in city schools during a possible terrorist attack, according to the city's request for proposals.

Before that network is built, the Baltimore Police Department will have constructed a separate surveillance center to continuously monitor a number of microwave cameras now being installed around the Inner Harbor, said Kristen Mahoney, director of the Baltimore Police Department's grants and government relations section, which handles homeland security requests.

Mahoney and police officials visited London in November to examine the United Kingdom's extensive use of such cameras.

Under the Inner Harbor plan, the cameras would be able to transmit images to helicopters and, eventually, police cruisers, Mahoney said.

Dozens of surveillance cameras exist throughout downtown Baltimore to deter crime, but those images are generally taped and reviewed only occasionally. The new network, financed by grants from the Department of Homeland Security, is aimed at fighting terrorists as much as drug dealers.

Other cities -- Washington, D.C.; Tampa, Fla.; Jersey City, N.J.; and Virginia Beach, Va. -- have built closed-circuit systems to help monitor crime. But most, like Washington, activate and monitor the systems mainly during events that attract large crowds, according to a June 2003 report from the U.S. General Accounting Office.

The proposed Baltimore regional system, agreed to by an arm of the Baltimore Metropolitan Council, could be one of the most extensive undertaken in the nation, experts said.

"I have not heard of such a big project," said Cedric Laurant, policy counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center. "We reject the use of public video cameras in public places if ... used on a permanent basis."

Arthur Spitzer, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of the National Capital Area, said his group fought Washington's system and said the D.C. City Council curbed the Police Department's plan.

"This is the first one I've heard of where apparently they're planning to put cameras around an urban area to keep them on all the time," Spitzer said of Baltimore's plan.

He said cameras infringe on privacy rights and are ineffective in fighting either crime or terrorism.

"This is just another step toward Big Brother," he said. "One of the freedoms that Americans take for granted is the freedom to walk down the street without the government looking over your shoulder all the time."

City Council President Sheila Dixon said she was concerned that the federal grants would eventually run out and the city would be stuck with the bill.

Mayor Martin O'Malley said the Downtown Partnership's use of cameras has been successful and residents want to know why the city does not use more cameras.

"You never want to have people operating cameras to look into windows," O'Malley said. "This is about being as proactive as you can be with the limited police resources you have."

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]And so the US continues its road to insanity:

Do not some european countries have that too.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]And so the US continues its road to insanity:

Do not some european countries have that too.

But as has been stated many time...

We are NOT Europe!