The Iraq Thread 2

[ralphwiggum 6]

actually, from what i heard, hussein didn't give a damn about gun control. the gun laws in Iraq was lax before he came, and was not enforced well during his power.

of course, it seems like Iraqis have better sense of gun safety than average americans....i don't remmeber reading any article complaing of how gun violece is rampant in Iraq during Hussein's power.

the gun control that US military enforced was no rifle, but yes handguns.

[bn880 5]

Yeah and you know what else I just heard, that the soldiers got killed by attackers with knives, not shot. That's pretty rough if it's true.

[denoir 0]

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2658644/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]Witnesses say the men were shot to death while waiting in traffic. Then teenagers dragged the bloody bodies from the vehicle and pummeled them with concrete blocks.

Didn't they get their throats slit? Or was that two other soldiers?

[bn880 5]

Well if you are bored you can listen to a little sound clip taken from CNN during the iraq war. incoming

1MB

and the commentary

[DracoPaladore 0]

I'd think the Americans would stop supporting this war if they actually saw the deaths of the people and their own soldiers. I watched a documentry yesterday, dubbed Iraq, showing uncensored pictures of the war.

These video cam shots and pictures were idea changers. From watching the Iraqi war here, it just shows an american shooting, and then pans out into an arcadish tank chase. There is no shot of the aftermath, no picture of that iraqi shot while he was bathing. No picture of the decapitated civilian from an American tank.

I think thats the biggest issue here. In North America, it seems that the society only want to show the "happy" side of war. Of their own soldiers cheering and beings all happy. They never show the bad side, never show the mangled and distorted corpses of iraqi people or Coalition soldiers with bullet holes in their chest. Never the scorched and blown face still in a car with even more bullet holes across him.

It's just..well..unbeleivable. This is the stuff people never see in war. The stuff that people just won't see and probobly never. It's just..well..sickening in a sense that sometimes I want to throw up. Real people, mangled, destroyed. A man with a wife, child, father, mother, just vapourized off of the face of the earth. Do the Americans know? No, they only show pictures of the American soldiers valiantly rolling down the street on top of their tank.

They never show 'stumpy', the no armed boy who lost his entire family from American bombs. Or the child laying in bed, his hand barely held together by muscle and flesh, without pain killers. They will just never see the BAD side of war. All they will ever see is the touchy feely american smiling and waving. Never the American soldier missing his hand and leg from a RPG round. No, that would upset people! God forbid we upset people in war!

Sometimes I wonder if this world is worth it. I mean, people die every day, right? But to lie blatantly in the face of people, showing pictures that are mostly censored. And the fact that they never, ever show the grim side of war is not right. People showed know that war is a last resort, that people die when you declare war or do a premptive strike or a invasion or a spearhead. Or a decapitation. People just don't get shot and die, they bleed out or scream.

Bah! I'm ranting.

[denoir 0]

What I would like to see is a proper civilian body count. The verified facts we have today is the data collected by AP (American news wire, no political affiliation)

Quote[/b] ]The Associated Press reported an estimated 3,240 civilian Iraqi deaths between March 20 and April 20, but the AP reported that the figure was based on records of only half of Iraq's hospitals and the actual number was thought to be significantly higher.

(from CNN article)

These 3,000 are those that died in about half of Iraq's hospitals. So not only isn't half counted but these are just the people that died in the hospitals i.e those that were fatally wounded. It does not include the ones killed on the spot. So the total is at least ten times number that.

And with that in mind the reporting of the US military casualties are grotesquely improportionate.

And for those that supported/support the war, I'd like to point out that the Iraqi civilians killed were just as innocent as those killed in the WTC attacks.

[aj_addons 0]

i always remember seeing the live feed of when that convoy of special forces, kurds and journalists were mistaken for a tank and were bombed. i remember the camera man looking about and there was a half kurdish fighter on the ground his legs and waist were about four feet away from the rest of his body and there was body in one of the destroyed jeeps that was basically just seered and burnt form the blast. that really was scary

[joltan 0]

Well if you are bored you can listen to a little sound clip taken from CNN during the iraq war. incoming

1MB

and the commentary

Lol, the second commentary was BBC, wasn't it?

[bn880 5]

I'd think the Americans would stop supporting this war if they actually saw the deaths of the people and their own soldiers. I watched a documentry yesterday, dubbed Iraq, showing uncensored pictures of the war.

These video cam shots and pictures were idea changers. From watching the Iraqi war here, it just shows an american shooting, and then pans out into an arcadish tank chase. There is no shot of the aftermath, no picture of that iraqi shot while he was bathing. No picture of the decapitated civilian from an American tank.

I think thats the biggest issue here. In North America, it seems that the society only want to show the "happy" side of war. Of their own soldiers cheering and beings all happy. They never show the bad side, never show the mangled and distorted corpses of iraqi people or Coalition soldiers with bullet holes in their chest. Never the scorched and blown face still in a car with even more bullet holes across him.

I entirely agree with you. If you want to see a bit more get hooked up to our Quebec (french) channels from Canada. They show a lot more than our English counterparts, and especially more than American TV.

I was watching fighting during the war, from the streets at the side of Iraqi resistance (not army, civilians probably fought more), showed everything, no cencorship nothing. On French TV here. Any person in the Ottawa area coud have seen the same footage had they been interested in reality. One of my impressions was, yeah, they're getting cut up like swiss cheese, even when being pulled out, since M1A1's are shooting from 1000m away they can't do anything this way, gotta be patient and launch attacks later. Oh and PS, the Americans really did shoot at anything that moves once they are under fire...

Yesterday I watched a documentary on the FF incident on the British convoy, which as it turns out hit the embedded reporters quite badly. Translator died. The convoy pulled up to some small checkpoint and everyone was getting out of their vehicles, stating "well this seems like a safe area we even have air support" they look up, swooosh, big black explosion, blood everywhere, brains blown away stuff like that. Needless to say i guess... and yes they had full markings, white TV marked vehicles, flags...

then they showed the wonderfull shot at the balcony of the Ramadan hotel, they basically aimed at a Spanish(I think) reporter, the M1A1/2 crew were staring in the direction for a while, so they knew clearly from that distance that was TV/media hotel.

[denoir 0]

I'd think the Americans would stop supporting this war if they actually saw the deaths of the people and their own soldiers. I watched a documentry yesterday, dubbed Iraq, showing uncensored pictures of the war.

These video cam shots and pictures were idea changers. From watching the Iraqi war here, it just shows an american shooting, and then pans out into an arcadish tank chase. There is no shot of the aftermath, no picture of that iraqi shot while he was bathing. No picture of the decapitated civilian from an American tank.

I think thats the biggest issue here. In North America, it seems that the society only want to show the "happy" side of war. Of their own soldiers cheering and beings all happy. They never show the bad side, never show the mangled and distorted corpses of iraqi people or Coalition soldiers with bullet holes in their chest. Never the scorched and blown face still in a car with even more bullet holes across him.

It's just..well..unbeleivable. This is the stuff people never see in war. The stuff that people just won't see and probobly never. It's just..well..sickening in a sense that sometimes I want to throw up. Real people, mangled, destroyed. A man with a wife, child, father, mother, just vapourized off of the face of the earth. Do the Americans know? No, they only show pictures of the American soldiers valiantly rolling down the street on top of their tank.

They never show 'stumpy', the no armed boy who lost his entire family from American bombs. Or the child laying in bed, his hand barely held together by muscle and flesh, without pain killers. They will just never see the BAD side of war. All they will ever see is the touchy feely american smiling and waving. Never the American soldier missing his hand and leg from a RPG round. No, that would upset people! God forbid we upset people in war!

Sometimes I wonder if this world is worth it. I mean, people die every day, right? But to lie blatantly in the face of people, showing pictures that are mostly censored. And the fact that they never, ever show the grim side of war is not right. People showed know that war is a last resort, that people die when you declare war or do a premptive strike or a invasion or a spearhead. Or a decapitation. People just don't get shot and die, they bleed out or scream.

Bah! I'm ranting.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, there's another angle you can see it from. If we were shown the uncensored pictures all the time, we would pretty soon be desensitized. We can get used to about anything. If we saw charred corpses every day, it would pretty much lose it's shocking value.

[bn880 5]

Well, they get to see more nasty stuff in movies than from Iraq, now that's not right is it?

I think if your nation is at war, the population should be able to see every casualty as it is, uncensored if they wish. Not to get detached from reality like at least 50% of US citizens are.

The US is in conflicts all over, and within it's borders it's business as usual, people have no idea what war is from that perspective, and no understanding what they are paying taxes for. (not all)

It's a sick world. Sick situation anyway.

[DracoPaladore 0]

I'd think the Americans would stop supporting this war if they actually saw the deaths of the people and their own soldiers. I watched a documentry yesterday, dubbed Iraq, showing uncensored pictures of the war.

These video cam shots and pictures were idea changers. From watching the Iraqi war here, it just shows an american shooting, and then pans out into an arcadish tank chase. There is no shot of the aftermath, no picture of that iraqi shot while he was bathing. No picture of the decapitated civilian from an American tank.

I think thats the biggest issue here. In North America, it seems that the society only want to show the "happy" side of war. Of their own soldiers cheering and beings all happy. They never show the bad side, never show the mangled and distorted corpses of iraqi people or Coalition soldiers with bullet holes in their chest. Never the scorched and blown face still in a car with even more bullet holes across him.

It's just..well..unbeleivable. This is the stuff people never see in war. The stuff that people just won't see and probobly never. It's just..well..sickening in a sense that sometimes I want to throw up. Real people, mangled, destroyed. A man with a wife, child, father, mother, just vapourized off of the face of the earth. Do the Americans know? No, they only show pictures of the American soldiers valiantly rolling down the street on top of their tank.

They never show 'stumpy', the no armed boy who lost his entire family from American bombs. Or the child laying in bed, his hand barely held together by muscle and flesh, without pain killers. They will just never see the BAD side of war. All they will ever see is the touchy feely american smiling and waving. Never the American soldier missing his hand and leg from a RPG round. No, that would upset people! God forbid we upset people in war!

Sometimes I wonder if this world is worth it. I mean, people die every day, right? But to lie blatantly in the face of people, showing pictures that are mostly censored. And the fact that they never, ever show the grim side of war is not right. People showed know that war is a last resort, that people die when you declare war or do a premptive strike or a invasion or a spearhead. Or a decapitation. People just don't get shot and die, they bleed out or scream.

Bah! I'm ranting.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, there's another angle you can see it from. If we were shown the uncensored pictures all the time, we would pretty soon be desensitized. We can get used to about anything. If we saw charred corpses every day, it would pretty much lose it's shocking value.

Very good point. But I don't beleive we show ever and all casualties, just a few to make a point to citizens of warring nations that war is not a game or movie.

If we show none, no one will see that war is not a game. But we shouldnt show too much. We just need to make a point that war is the worst way to settle problems.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Iraqi war was about oil - proven beyond doubt

[theavonlady 2]

Iraqi war was about oil - proven beyond doubt

http://www.compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dionysius/bushes_iraqoil.jpg

I bet a bunch of little Elfs made up that pic.

[bn880 5]

elfs? ELFS

[theavonlady 2]

 elfs?   ELFS

Elf.

[Chill 0]

DracoPaladore I also saw the documentary! I wasnt shocked,as I have always known of the brutal way USA/Israel mislead the public into believing that every one is a terrorist who does not believe in their ideology.

Inocent Iraq's were shopping and were shot and the USA call it "collatoral damage", but when some Iraq's fight the invaders USA they are called "terrorist".

http://www.islamonline.net/english....3.shtml

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news....ge.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s948108.htm

http://www.antiwar.com/ewens/casualties.html

http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/iraq/586.html

My Webpage

The invasion of Iraq is 120% about oil and not freedom. People with their hands tied to their back and bags over their heads are not free (these same people were released as they were not connected to any terrorist actions)!

Eventually the USA will send enough body bags back home and make the USA public realise the the american foreign policies do not work and will only unite all the terrorist stronger and better organised than ever before.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

[DracoPaladore 0]

DracoPaladore I also saw the documentary! I wasnt shocked,

I wouldn't be surprised if no one here would be shocked, seeing as we've all seen our share of pictures and have a good knowledge of current events. But what about Joe America watching the FOX news channel?

[Badgerboy 0]

DracoPaladore I also saw the documentary! I wasnt shocked,

I wouldn't be surprised if no one here would be shocked, seeing as we've all seen our share of pictures and have a good knowledge of current events. But what about Joe America watching the FOX news channel?

Using news in the loosest sense of the word possible.

[theavonlady 2]

Guess who's coming to dinner?!

Quote[/b] ]Bush Makes Surprise Visit to Baghad

9 minutes ago  

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent

BAGHDAD, Iraq - President Bush made a surprise Thanksgiving visit to American troops in Baghdad Thursday, flying secretly to violence-scarred Iraq to thank U.S. forces for serving there. It was the first trip ever by an American president to Iraq — a mission tense with concern about his safety.

edit: BTW, where is Baghad?

[bn880 5]

Yeah they actually set up a decoy meeting for Bushie in texas.

What the dumb prick went to Baghad for I don't know. Maybe he wants to see which GI's want to rip his head off. Ah wait, they must be screened first to be ass kissers before they are allowed near Bushie.

[denoir 0]

I think it was good for him and good for the US troops. I don't think it makes any real difference, but it's good PR and good for morale.

[bn880 5]

Kind of risky.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I think it was good for him and good for the US troops. I don't think it makes any real difference, but it's good PR and good for morale.

more like for him, don't know about troops.

gotta agree that this is a good PR.

he was there for about 2.5 hours. not enough time for any opposition to figure that out.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I think it was good for him and good for the US troops. I don't think it makes any real difference, but it's good PR and good for morale.

Agree, you gotta give him credit for taking such a personal risk upon him. Didn't think he would have the guts for something like this