Ier pack released

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

OK are you running v1.91?

The units are under West or East and then CM engagment pack Air, Armoured, Men, support and car. Otherwise I dont know.

[Maraudeur 0]

OK are you running v1.91?

The units are under West or East and then CM engagment pack Air, Armoured, Men, support and car. Otherwise I dont know.

Yep, 1.91

What the hell...

Thanks for reply Cheeky Monkey

*edit*

Well will reinstall OFP something's wrong

BTW thanks for the RPK drum mag ;)

[PFC_Mike 2]

I think the only justification for the higher west armor value is the superior training. US troops in particular are far more capable fighters becuase of the amount of time and money spent on realistic combat training. MILES or similar systems would never exist in the USSR or even in most NATO countries. For Christ's sake, in the mid-80's Soviet MBT crews fired at most 10 live rounds a year in training. This was as the Afghan war raged.

As for helos, the same applies. However, OFP doesn't do a good enough job of simulating directional damage. A Hind can survive an RPG or SA-7 only to be brought down by a DsHKM (true story, in Afghanistan a single HMG gunner proceeded to kill two Hinds and a Mi-8 filled with Specznaz sent to kill him. Apparently, the radio conversation between the Soviet pilots and ground controllers was frequently played in the Reagan white house.)

Biggest problem about A/C of all times, rotary-wing included, is tactics. AH-64's simply do not attack from 30ft high against hordes of MG armed infantry. But BN880 is dead on about the relative weakness of US attack helicopters; you can't not hit something vital.

Last O/T comment: The biggest reason the US lost choppers in combat in Iraq was misuse. The Pentagon has believed its own propaganda about the effectiveness of helos as the primary weapon against MBTs. Really, they are only effective against heavy armor as flanking forces, like light calvary in the days before motor vehicles.

SOUNDS MAKE THE BATTELFIELD COMPLETE!

[miles teg 1]

Yes of course they can withstand RPG hits, not repell them, take them.  They are damaged but don't fall.  Just look at Afghanistan.  And apaches can also take an RPG hit in some circumstances.

EDIT: What do you think happens if you rip through the cargo space in the back of the Hind?  Nothing usually that will bring it down.     So anyway, the armor doesn't protect it from an RPG much, the size and "non-volotile" areas make it less likey you will hit anything important.

Ah ok. Makes sense. I thought you were refering to the armor stopping the RPG from penetrating. At any rate, yeah the Hind's a great chopper. I have a friend who's flown in some Ukranian Hinds operating in the Congo and swears by them especially the South African modified Hinds that are up-gunned and up-armored. I believe they call it the "Pretorian" upgrade.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[attilauk 0]

US troops in particular are far more capable fighters becuase of the amount of time and money spent on realistic combat training.

I dont want to offend any yanks but it is a well known fact that american troops are the least trained of any NATO forces but they do have the best kit, the most highly trained standard combat forces in the world are the british Royal Marines!

btw this is a superb pack and was well worth the 3 hours it took to download! (my machine kept dropping the connection!)

[delaware 0]

I don't doubt that the creators of Ghost Recon, Raven Shield and OFP recorded real, live weapons, but something doesn't match up between their respective end results.  None of them sound remotely similar, except OFP's original M16 and GR's M16, and that changed after OFP:R (or a patch ... don't remember when exactly).

Could anyone with experience offer insight as to which are more realistic?

Thanks!

Regards,

Chris

[PFC_Mike 2]

I don't think that RS uses accurate sounds. Every single sniper rifle has a 10 round mag, and half the weapons sound the same. Nonetheless, it's a good game.

The best way to get an M16 sound is to have someone who owns an AR-15 (legal in most states) record it.

Just remembered something. The M16A1's in Apocalypse Now sounded just like the M16's before Res. Perhaps firing blanks changes the sound, or M16's really do sound like pop guns?

[attilauk 0]

The ammunition type definitely changes the sound of a weapon, blanks used in films use a much less powerfull powder in the cartridge which flares a lot more giving the monster muzzle flashes. Cos the powder is different and there is no round exiting then weapon the tone will be different. my house mate is in the OTC (the university version of the Territorial Army) and we are constantly finding blanks in our tumble dryer, not good!

[punishment 1]

i found a mod that does use real weapon sounds

check it out i have used it for some time now

http://svd.s20.xrea.com/

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

Maybe not all the guns, but definately some do, the MP5, Uzi and the M16 all strangley match the sounds during the live tests I saw in a few different documentary programmes. I suppose its alot harder getting the sounds for a WA2000. I really liked the M16 sound from CWC and hated the new one in Res so I de PBO the sound file and changed them back to the originals . From what I can remember when firing a few M16s they weren't the most ear pleasing weapons, I heard it had something to do with the recoil buffer. I could make it so the M16s have that older sound if you want. It has a faster ROF now anyway so I would have to make a new burst sound. No problem when you have Cool Edit .

[Maraudeur 0]

Yes of course they can withstand RPG hits, not repell them, take them.  They are damaged but don't fall.  Just look at Afghanistan.  And apaches can also take an RPG hit in some circumstances.

EDIT: What do you think happens if you rip through the cargo space in the back of the Hind?  Nothing usually that will bring it down.     So anyway, the armor doesn't protect it from an RPG much, the size and "non-volotile" areas make it less likey you will hit anything important.

Ah ok.  Makes sense.  I thought you were refering to the armor stopping the RPG from penetrating.   At any rate, yeah the Hind's a great chopper.  I have a friend who's flown in some Ukranian Hinds operating in the Congo and swears by them especially the South African modified Hinds that are up-gunned and up-armored.  I believe they call it the "Pretorian" upgrade.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

You mean the helos rented by Executive Outcomes ??

[killagee 0]

Ah yes... Executive Outcomes... We could start a whole new topic about this lot...

Like how they leased Mi-24's to both the Ethiopians and Eritrians, trained thier pilots at the same place a few weeks after each other and then sent them off to kill each other, same thing the russians did with the SU's and Migs...

Bastards.

[Maraudeur 0]

Bastards.

Businessmen ?

[bn880 5]

These are the rations I can suggest right now, tailored for OFP not real life directional hits, if you want to keep their armor fairly low:

MI24 Hind

Armour: 120

SU25 Frogfoot

Armour: 58

AH-64 Apache

Armour: 65

AH-1 Cobra

Armour: 43

UH-60 Blackhawk with MG

Armour: 51

A10 Thunderbolt

Armour: 70

if you want the armor higher just multiply 2x:

MI24 Hind

Armour: 240

SU25 Frogfoot

Armour: 116

AH-64 Apache

Armour: 130

AH-1 Cobra

Armour: 86

UH-60 Blackhawk with MG

Armour: 102

A10 Thunderbolt

Armour: 140

Anyway, any "avionics experts" should make more suggestions to the ratios if necessary. Just remember, armour is NOT in OFP, it's about survivability.

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

Cheers I might do that then. that Mi24 will be one hard thing to bring down. Also I havent touched the AA missiles (Stinger and 9K32). I suppose they will have to be powered up as at the mo it takes 2 o bring down a MI 17. Default they do 200 damage each. The MI 17 armour is at 75

[bn880 5]

Yes I am also a little worried about standard weapon effectiveness on tougher aircraft. It kind of stinks because armor should be purely based on the areas hit.

[MLF 0]

this is one thing i hope they get right in OFP2 better damage models, ie tracks damaged, and RPG wont always blow up a truck or an M113 and a crew wont always die if there vehicle is knocked out.

[silent_64 0]

Have you ever seen a A-10 fly on 1 1/4 of a wing? The A-10 is a flying fortress, remember that, the AH-64 can chrash at 20 G and the pilots will still survive, that also is a sign of heavy armor, the UH-60 is also extremely hard to take down with small arms fire, the armor is well defined already, the Corba is a weak chopper and can be shot down useing small arms fire the Frogfoot can take a direct impact to the cocpit and is very heavy armored.

[Commander-598 0]

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps firing blanks changes the sound, or M16's really do sound like pop guns?

M16s are pop guns.

One of the things I find most annoying in this pack, is that you have all tanks as being MBTs. An M60 Patton is NOT an MBT by today(Or '85's) standards, same goes for the T72 and T55. Another thing, the Mini-14 is not an issue weapon, it is a civilian .223 rifle, it isn't automatic, it doesn't sound like a full .308 M14, it does about as much dammage as an M16, and it doesn't say what the standard M14 has printed on it.

And another thing concerning the M14, is the full-auto. There weren't very many of them in use or made with full-auto. Thankfully, you made it uncontrollable on full, but i fear the AI will start using full-auto unlike an actual solier with an M14.

And lastly, there are no groups! How am I supposed to make a simple two squad battle that has the same units as the BIS groups(10 Man Squad, one LAW/RPG, etc) without spending 8 minutes placing single units?

*Note*I own several somewhat large rifles from WW2.

[the_unknown_one 0]

A) copy and paste.

B) The m14 was originally supposed to be used as a squad automatic, aswell as the service rifle.

the_unknown_one

[Jinef 2]

the AH-64 can chrash at 20 G and the pilots will still survive, that also is a sign of heavy armor,

If you have a titanium armoured car and hit a solid wall at 70 miles per hour, you will have so much force sent through your body every blood vessel would rupture and every bone would brake.

Pilot survivalbility is not about armour, it's about shock absorbance. Plus those are the specs that are theoretical, the don't actually put humans in those conditions, 20G would make you lose complete conciousness and you would have no control. A helicopter crash landing is a glide like a fixed wing aircraft, not a plummet.

If you go straight down there is a 100 percent chance you will have injuries, it's not easy doing escape and evasion when your spine is broken in 5 places.

I don't think you have an idea on how deadly the forces involved are. Why didn't the CH46 have any survivors, what about the Blackhawk in Upstate new york, or the two apaches in Iraq? It is almost impossible to get a perfect crash landing when you have to think about the googleplex of factors involved! (slight exaggeration there)

[bn880 5]

Have you ever seen a A-10 fly on 1 1/4 of a wing? The A-10 is a flying fortress, remember that,

Yeah it takes hits like the Mi24 takes hits, so? it's got a good survivability if you check what I proposed, right after the Mi24... Maybe 75 would be more fitting than 70, but anyway.

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps firing blanks changes the sound, or M16's really do sound like pop guns?

M16s are pop guns.

One of the things I find most annoying in this pack, is that you have all tanks as being MBTs. An M60 Patton is NOT an MBT by today(Or '85's) standards, same goes for the T72 and T55. Another thing, the Mini-14 is not an issue weapon, it is a civilian .223 rifle, it isn't automatic, it doesn't sound like a full .308 M14, it does about as much dammage as an M16, and it doesn't say what the standard M14 has printed on it.

And another thing concerning the M14, is the full-auto. There weren't very many of them in use or made with full-auto. Thankfully, you made it uncontrollable on full, but i fear the AI will start using full-auto unlike an actual solier with an M14.

And lastly, there are no groups! How am I supposed to make a simple two squad battle that has the same units as the BIS groups(10 Man Squad, one LAW/RPG, etc) without spending 8 minutes placing single units?

*Note*I own several somewhat large rifles from WW2.

Sorry I'll rename it AC-556 next time and it does do as much damage as the M16. I only added it as a little bonus and I do realise that it isn't an issue weapon. Is the G36 or the Steyr AUG issued to US troops? because they are there under West Men I'll will give it some new sounds for it later. I am no texture artist so I simply used the same textures as the M14, were you expecting to see Colt M4A1 carbine cal. 223 then an individual serial number on the left side of the magazine well on the M4 and then a totally different print on the M16A2? Anyway the AI will not use the M14 on full auto past 30cm and why would anyone choose a semi auto M14 over the M21 which is more accurate and has a telescopic sight (I mean in game, not real life). I'll add groups for the next release.

I put the tanks where all the other tanks were in the original and thats under armoured, im not making anymore subsections like Support tanks, Shite tanks, Target practice tanks etc. And where does it state that they are MBTs? in the readme? does that affect the game in any way? Should I put the M113 as an Armoured Personnel Carrier or an Inantry Fighting Vehicle? By the time Ive finished there would be as many subsections as there are units.

[silent_64 0]

the AH-64 can chrash at 20 G and the pilots will still survive, that also is a sign of heavy armor,

If you have a titanium armoured car and hit a solid wall at 70 miles per hour, you will have so much force sent through your body every blood vessel would rupture and every bone would brake.

Pilot survivalbility is not about armour, it's about shock absorbance. Plus those are the specs that are theoretical, the don't actually put humans in those conditions, 20G would make you lose complete conciousness and you would have no control. A helicopter crash landing is a glide like a fixed wing aircraft, not a plummet.

If you go straight down there is a 100 percent chance you will have injuries, it's not easy doing escape and evasion when your spine is broken in 5 places.

I don't think you have an idea on how deadly the forces involved are. Why didn't the CH46 have any survivors, what about the Blackhawk in Upstate new york, or the two apaches in Iraq? It is almost impossible to get a perfect crash landing when you have to think about the googleplex of factors involved! (slight exaggeration there)

No it's VERY to preform a perfect chrash landing, it's almost impsible, but it's something you would need to keep inmind when config'ing the armor, you can't simulate shock absorbance so you'll have to compensate useing the armor, it's corect that a chopper uses autorotation to crash land, but still a chopper can nose dive if let's say it's hit by a SAM, the pilot may exprience 10-12 G not 20 it's a number he can SURVIVE at not that he'll ever expience it, and he'll only survive if it's a good landing.

The Ch-64 didn't have any survivers becouse it's build like old car, a hard body build to last the forces of flight, not to take the forces of impact!

The Blackhawk, the survive ability all depends on how you chrash it, a good landing you all survive, a bad landing and you all die!

Quote[/b] ]Yeah it takes hits like the Mi24 takes hits, so? it's got a good survivability if you check what I proposed, right after the Mi24...  Maybe 75 would be more fitting than 70, but anyway

It can take a direct SAM hit in the wing!!! It sure as hell needs to have more armor!

[grayghost 0]

What SAM are we talking about? Just about any plane can 'take a SAM to the wing' and surpive, if its a crappy hit.

It isn't amatter of armor, and in general a plane hit by an SA-2/11/whatever other flying telephone pole there is out there is dead, dead, DEAD.

Anything else is an exception. ;)

And yes, I saw the pics of the A-10 you mentioned. I'll say once again: Exception. They're tough, but no matter what the press says, they're /not/ flying tanks. That guy was LUCKY.