Beta: blood addon

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (John C Flett @ 16 May 2003,13:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or have you binned it already? <span id='postcolor'>

No its in the .cpp format. So how do I bin it? I though that required the beta tool that snYpir was talking about.<span id='postcolor'>

amalfi's cpp2bin

[John C Flett 0]

Downloading now. Thanks.

And sorted. Thank you very much.

[Andrew B 0]

Have a look over at www.ammo-oracle.com to understand a little bit of what I've studied.

The problem that faced me in trying to simulate 5.56 in Operation Flashpoint was this: An M855 round fired from a weapon with a 20" bbl will leave the barrel traveling at between 3000 and 3100 FPS. If the round hits a human target traveling at 2700 FPS or higher, it will fragment after penetrating about 3-4" into the target. These fragments will continue to penetrate several inches. If this fragmentation occurs, the wound track will show a softball sized chunk of flesh 'missing' (it's actually just shredded and turned to mush) about 3" into the wound track (where the fragmentation started) with the overall penetration of the fragments being about 13.5". Needless to say, if you have this happen inside your chest cavity, you are going to be out of action very shortly.

The problem is that this only occurs if the bullet fragments. As I mentioned earlier, 5.56 needs about 2700 FPS to reliably fragment (though it has been shown to fragment as low as 2500 FPS). M855, when launched from a 20" barrel, falls below this 2700 FPS threshhold at about 100m. Past this distance, the bullet will still 'tumble' (The proper term is yaw. All spitzer [or teardrop] shaped bullets yaw in flesh BTW) upon impact with flesh, but the results are much less spectacular.

So, how do I model this in Operation Flashpoint? I can't. I would have to be able to change the amount of damage that a projectile does based on how far it was from it's starting point when it impacted a target. Since I don't know how to do that, I just set things so that the M-16 does this damage at all distances.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I take it no one read my above post...<span id='postcolor'>

I read it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If an M16 would even hit you dead in the stomach, you would probably still be shooting although bleeding through a small hole.<span id='postcolor'>

That all depends on how far away you were from the soldier/Marine who shot you with said M16. And you had better hope that the 'small hole' that the bullet made doesn't happen to be through your Aorta...

You have to understand that you aren't just bleeding through that 'small hole'. You are going to be bleeding internally. And the wound track of a 5.56, even if it doesn't fragment, is not going to be just a 5.56mm hole straight through. It's likely going to be 20x5.56mm someplace inside you where the bullet yawed 180 degrees without changing course (it yaws through 180 degrees, traveling sideways for a while before completing it's yaw and traveling backwards).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An Ak-47 uses a larger round(Although a 7.62x39mm isn't much better than a 5.56N round).<span id='postcolor'>

It isn't any better at all. Its terminal performance is actually quite pour when compared to that of the 5.56. In the examples seen in Dr. Fackler's work, 7.62x39 failed even to yaw inside a target until it had penetrated farther in the test medium than most humans are thick, meaning that it simply leaves a 7.62mm hole straight through the target (Unless it strikes bone, in which case you might have effects from the fragmentation of the bone, and of course, the effect of losing whatever structure that bone provided, but 5.56 does this too). Now, I have read rumors of a certain type of newer, commercially available 7.62x39 that does yaw in flesh (still not providing anywhere near the wounding effect of fragmentation), but I've yet to see any documented proof that this ammunition performs any better than that used by Dr. Fackler in his testing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What i'm saying: An M16 shouldn't be dropping targets unless it's making head shots. And I do recall having to sometimes hit Ruskies twice with the default M16 in the chest. It completely matched the Statements made by the Marine who is known on the Russian Front forums as Devildog.<span id='postcolor'>

You are correct in your statement in that the only sure way to get a one-shot-stop is to take out the target's Central Nervous System. However, with the damage/destruction of major organs like the heart, lungs, liver, and the amount of internal bleeding that would be the result of 5.56 fragmenting in the chest cavity, even a target high on a drug that rendered him unaffected by the pain would be rendered unconscious in a minute or less, simply from loss of blood.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Note: These ideas are drawn from my own personal experiences and remarks from a guy in Marine Force Recon. <span id='postcolor'>

I’d love to hear more about your personal experiences.

I’ve found that many of the negative remarks those in the service make about the 5.56 come from using a carbine against a target that is outside the effective fragmentation range of the round. Using M855 from the 14.5†barrel of an M4/M4A1 carbine, the effective fragmentation range is reduced to about 80m[!!]. Optimally, when engaging targets outside of 200m one should consider using artillery, 7.62 NATO, or one of those nifty new 75 or 100gr bullet loadings for the 5.56 which reportedly have fragmentation ranges as far as 300m(if 5.56 weapons are all that are available).

Standard 5.56 even outperforms 7.62x39 outside the distance that it fragments, because it will still yaw inside the target past its fragmentation range and it is a much faster, flatter shooting round than 7.62x39.

Basically, the end result is that 5.56x45, when used inside it's fragmentation range, allows you to be a little off center with your shot placement but still score a critical hit against the target's vitals, turning what might have been a 'wounding shot' with another caliber that would have required a follow up shot, into a 'killing shot' that puts the target out of action. At the same time, it makes what would have been a non-life threatening wound with another caliber into one that may be life threatening or disabling. i.e. a shot through the thigh with a 7.62x39 that misses the bone, major nerves, and arteries, although painful, would not likely be an immediate threat to someone's life. However, a 5.56 round that entered the same spot on a target's thigh and fragmented may well expand the damage into areas of the thigh containing major nerves and/or arteries which may very well make the wound disabling or life-threatening.

P.S. PV, I actually would rather implement my changes into the DR config, as I really like DR.

I forgot to mention that I have made replacement models that are more correct in scale and proportion for the M16, AK-74M, G3, FN FAL, M249, RPK-74, and M4A1 carbine (by Fliper).

All of these models, besides the M16, were made by modifying or combining other people's models.

Before they could be released I would, of course, have to ask permission of those whose models I have modified.

BTW, kudos to W.M. Crielaard, maker of the FN MAG model and DeZzErX and Kabal of Tales Of War, makers of the FN FNC model. These are the only two models I think I've ever downloaded that I didn't need to change in size or proportion to get them properly to scale with the soldier model. These guys really did a good job making the scale of their models realistic compared to the soldier model!

[snYpir 0]

Ok, sorry for the delay in my response. I have been trying to determine the best way to approach modifying the core files - mainly config.bin.

Here's the current known ways to acquire a decrypted config.bin file:

[*]Use BINView (creates buggy output - handgun bug)

[*]Use a-lone-wolf's decrypted file (error message on game load)

[*]Use the 'commented config' from the BIS Breathe site

The handgun bug appears whenever you use a config.cpp decrypted directly from the config.bin. However, if you encrypt it again (using Cpp->Bin) the handgun bug will disappear.

The only 100% workable solution that I have found is to use the BIS commented config. I have updated my configs.zip file (available in the first post) with this version. Simply copy the config.cpp file into your \Res\Bin folder and whalla, blood without the handgun bug.

This way, you will still be able to use blood and the Dynamic Range sound pack at the same time. PitViper will hopefully send me a 'blank' config.cpp file soon, so I can make a config.bin file accessable using the -mod option (the same way that he does).

I will also make a combined dynamic range + blood mod (again accessable using -mod). Wait out for more info on this.

Obviously, we have started something here. We now have two community config.bin modifications:

[*]Dynamic range

[*]Blood

and from what Andrew B is talking about a third will be on the way. We need to keep track of all of this, for sure. And we should not allow people to simply keep modifying their \Res\Bin\config.cpp file (or else things will get messy on MP servers, and people will screw their configs).

What I propose is this:

OFPEC hosts a new, super-config, in a new area. I can keep track of all of these, and combine them into a single, new config.bin file that is accessed via the -mod commandline option.

As new config mods come along, we can fold them into the combined mod, as well as make individual configs available.

1.3 is about to be up - it is beta - hopefully the first 'final' version will be out by this weekend.

[Andrew B 0]

All I have to say is: Hooah!

[Jinef 2]

Disgusting

[Andrew B 0]

What's disgusting?

The blood added to the game? Perhaps. But the bleeding does add the ability to track a wounded enemy, which is therefore, useful in an infantry simulation.

The wounding mechanisms of projectiles? Not really. It's just simple physics. It's what happens when you shoot someone. This is a discussion about improving an infantry sim. If one wants an accurate simulation of infantry combat, one has to accurately simulate the effects of infantry weapons.

Such things ought not to be regarded with disgust. It is the way of things. It is the way things will be until there is no more need for war- and there will always be need for war until men cease to give in to the temptation to try and take by force that which is not theirs.

[PitViper 0]

Snypir,

 I would like to see fire effects on the vehicles after they are destroyed.  There are lots of other things that could be worked into this also.

BTW, I will be releasing the configs within the next day or so.  I am writing the basics into the readme.  Last night, I un-DR'ed the config so now we have the generic 1.91 config.  I need to go through it one last time to make sure its tidy.

BTW, since I have been mucking around in all these configs (the failed too), I can tell you that some of the problems with the automated decryptors are:

1) They don't decrypt negative integers correctly. (see them as large ints)

2) They have problems with some floats.

3) Some tend to display large numbers in scientific notation.

4) They miss 40% of the line-ending ";"'s (critical!

I could probably do a better analysis if I specifically looked for all the errors.

[Sxep 0]

Andrew B........  you really know what your talking about.

well Opf is a CombatSim.

So way not make GORE like in Soldier of Fortune...that would be realistic, you blow someones head of with a shotgun

(well in Reality you would atleast erase his face for instance)

..I know the engine limitation

But if you want some realism in OPF make this.

Allthrough i find SOF2 a bit disgusting, but hey Reallife killing is disgusting... If you kill someone you have to see he blood comming out of his body or even some intestines(think its the correct word for that in English)

....Killing IS sick!

You really want it more Realistic?....go to the army

[snYpir 0]

PitViper - thanks for the info. I will feed that back to the maker of BINView - maybe one day we'll have a tool that works

There are a huge number of effects scripts out there - tail rotor failure, dust, fire, blood - there is no reason why they couldn't all be combined into a single config (even if they are in multiple script packs or addons - it doesn't matter because we'll put it all in a seperate mod directory anyway).

[nierop 0]

snYpir, have you tried OFPmanager, downloadable from OFPEC. I use it all the time to unpack .BIN files.

[snYpir 0]

yeah, it still has the handgun bug and an array error when you use cpp to bin (at least when i used it it did)...

[benu 1]

nierop: i tried ofpmanager and it has the same problem with floats, numbers in scientific notation and negative numbers. I ran a diff between the config.cpp i created with ofpmanager and the one from snypir. Haven't tried with the official one, and haven't noticed any missing semicolons though...

[PitViper 0]

I recommend moving the discussion to here:

"Super-config discussion" thread

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (benu @ 17 May 2003,19:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Haven't tried with the official one, and haven't noticed any missing semicolons though...<span id='postcolor'>

trust me.. it is missing a large number of them.

[snYpir 0]

I have uploaded version 1.3. Fixes most of the known bugs.

[*]MP code updated - it works and has been tested

[*]Parameters to blood_init.sqs work

[*]Blood spray more realistic

[*]Implemented realistic-ish bleeding and damage from bloodloss

[*]Config.cpp updated to remove the handgun bug (however the config.cpp method doesn't work in MP for some reason - working on it)

Note that to implement damage from bloodloss you must have 'blood_bleeding_bloodloss_disable = false' somewhere in your mission.

This is still not final

The code can still be made more efficent. It's awhile since i touched the maths required, so bear with me *goes to get his maths textbook*...

thoughts on version 1.3?

[punishment 1]

Where is the link?

Edit:well on the front page of course!

[ExtracTioN 0]

snYpir can you add rotordownwash effect too on the config please I want to do that but my wordpad isnt working

[Sxep 0]

lol and what about the tank shock dust?

[John C Flett 0]

I've played about a bit with the update today and have to say the changes are very subtle but I approve.

Two questions though;

The issue about damage through bloodloss. Does this mean we now have an option for realistic medics and medivac? As you say it would have to be built into the mission but given how long we've been talking about this I'm really eager to see somebody use it.

Periodically I get lines of text ( blood formula? - the word 'billboard' stands out. ) across the top of the screen. This seems to be tied up with vehicles rather than infantry but I've not figured out all the factors yet. It doesn't crash the game or anything serious just distracts. So am I the only person experiencing this or will it be delt with?

[snYpir 0]

Damage - when turned on, it just happens. There is no 'feedback' to the player at this stage. this is why it is turned 'off' by default. I am still trying to figure out how to best implement it.

People will get annoyed if they just start dying.

With regards to the billboard error - there should be no errors, ever. When exactly does it occur?

[PFC_Mike 2]

perhaps have the screen flash red? or have a screams?

[snYpir 0]

how do you make the screen flash red?

[John C Flett 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> When exactly does it occur? <span id='postcolor'>

I've not quite figured that out.  Its always been in large engagements and I think always involving armour. Theres been too much occuring when it happens for me to pinpoint the cause and I've not reproduced it during any of my test missions.

I'll keep experimenting.

[blackdog~ 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (snYpir @ 18 May 2003,14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">how do you make the screen flash red?<span id='postcolor'>

You could make your own CutRSC and just have it something as simple as a 16x16 red PAA file which can fade in and out when hit.

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